Property proposal:	Generic	Authority control	Person	Organization
	Creative work	Place	Sports	Sister projects
	Transportation	Natural science	Computing	Lexeme

General

‎has semantic role (2nd proposal)

Under discussion

Description	item that describes a role in an event/action class
Data type	Item
Domain	item, occurrence (Q1190554)
Example 1	military offensive (Q2001676)"has semantic role"attacker (Q31924059)object of statement has role (P3831)agent (Q392648)
Example 2	military offensive (Q2001676)"has semantic role"defender (Q111729140)object of statement has role (P3831)theme (Q118826633)
Example 3	throwing (Q12898216)"has semantic role"actor (Q23894381)object of statement has role (P3831)agent (Q392648)
Example 4	throwing (Q12898216)"has semantic role"projectile (Q49393)object of statement has role (P3831)theme (Q118826633)
Example 5	throwing (Q12898216)"has semantic role"target (Q1047579)object of statement has role (P3831)destination (Q111335358)
Planned use	add to (possibly newly created) items describing occurrences/actions
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)

This proposal is a substantial revision of Wikidata:Property proposal/has semantic role.

Motivation

Consider concepts that describe classes of events, actions and processes, roughly the subclasses of "occurrence (Q1190554)". For the lack of a better inclusive term, we call them "event/action" classes. (They are sometimes called "eventualities" in linguistic literature.) All event/action classes have core semantic roles, as illustrated by widely used resources such as "FrameNet (Q1322093)", "VerbNet (Q7920918)" and "PropBank (Q7250039)". For example, “eating" has an "eater" and something "eaten"; "throwing" has the "thrower", the "target" and the "projectile". These roles are not optional. Every act of "eating" has an "eater" and something "eaten" independently of how it is expressed and in what language. While Wikidata has over 300 existing properties for roles in event/action instances (e.g., "participant (P710)", "victim(s) (P8032)"), there are very few that are used with event/action classes. The two most common are "practiced by (P3095)" and "uses (P2283)". The vast majority of event/action classes have no statements describing semantic roles. For example, until very recently, "military offensive (Q2001676)" didn't have any semantic roles at all. Clearly, every military offensive has an attacker and a defendant. We added these roles using two statements:

military offensive (Q2001676)has characteristic (P1552)attacker (Q31924059)object of statement has role (P3831)agent (Q392648)

military offensive (Q2001676)has characteristic (P1552)defender (Q111729140)object of statement has role (P3831)theme (Q118826633)

Here, "agent (Q392648)" and "theme (Q118826633)" are instances of "thematic relation (Q613930)". The property "has characteristic (P1552)" is extremely generic and has many uses. Our proposed “has semantic role” property would be a specific sub-property of "has characteristic (P1552)" for designating semantic roles.

Some of the existing event/action classes already have statements indicating semantic roles. For example, the creator in "creation (Q11398090)" is indicated by the "practiced by (P3095)" property. We would not change this, but, since this property has many uses, we added a qualifier:

creation (Q11398090)practiced by (P3095)creator (Q2500638)object of statement has role (P3831)agent (Q392648)

The item "creation (Q11398090)" did not have a statement for the "object of creation" role. So, we added:

creation (Q11398090)has characteristic (P1552)artificial object (Q16686448)object of statement has role (P3831)theme (Q118826633)

If we had the proposed "has semantic role" property, we would have used it instead of the generic "has characteristic (P1552)" property.

This proposal is a part of a wider project: "Wikidata:WikiProject_Events_and_Role_Frames". We encourage the interested parties to visit and join the project discussion. Anatole Gershman (talk) 21:53, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Comment @ChristianKl, Arademaker, Swpb, ArthurPSmith: This is a significant revision of previous proposals that you have commented on. Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 16:18, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I find the proposal much improved and fully support it. Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 23:18, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I am very happy with this proposal and also strongly support it. MarthaStonePalmer (talk) 22:48, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I definitely support the addition of the "has semantic role" property. HajicJanSr (talk) 17:09, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I fully support this property proposal. SkatjeMyers (talk) 16:25, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support I think that this property would substantially improve the representation of eventualities in Wikidata. Kitchengoose (talk) 01:51, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support This revised proposal addresses all issues and I fully support it. Andrea Westerinen
Oppose. This property would introduce a competing modeling approach to what has already been adopted. This overlaps with:
object of action (P12912) and object class of action (P12913), wherever the role is theme (Q118826633) or another type of undergoer (Q111335542);

source of transfer (P12693) and destination of transfer (P12694), when the role is source (Q31464082) or recipient (Q20820253) (including destination (Q111335358));

The proposed agent of action, when the role is agent (Q392648).

(Edit: and many others, see table below. Swpb (talk) 14:38, 1 August 2024 (UTC))[reply]

It would be best to continue the approach of properties like those, that represent semantic roles directly: there are only a few broad types of semantic role, and the properties (and proposal) I listed already cover the most important ones ~~(with instrument (Q6535309) being probably the most important role that doesn't yet have a property or proposal)~~. That approach has the added advantage of allowing the properties to be used as either main properties or qualifiers, due to not needing the object of statement has role (P3831) qualifier:

military offensive (Q2001676)"agent of action"attacker (Q31924059)

military offensive (Q2001676)object class of action (P12913)defender (Q111729140)

Wirecard scandal (Q96655771)has effect (P1542)arrest (Q1403016)object of action (P12912)Markus Braun (Q56855998)

Swpb (talk) 17:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb It appears that the thrust of your argument is that there are already pairs of properties or property proposals for most broad thematic roles like agent, recipient/object, instrument, and goal. For example, object class of action (P12913) (created on 24 July 2024) is to be used to provide the selectional restriction (or perhaps selectional preference) class for the recipient/object of action/event classes, as is done for window cleaning (Q3124765) (but not for banishment (Q1716571)), and object of action (P12912) (created on the same date) is to be used to provide the actual recipient/object for action/event instances, as is done for Turukhansk exile of Joseph Stalin (Q4466445). Is there a place where all these properties and proposals can be found? Would proposals to create all the missing properties go through? Is there a property that uniquely connects the pairs? (I don't see one on either object class of action (P12913) or object of action (P12912).)

What about fine-grained semantic roles like defender (Q111729140)? How are they to be handled? They are different from selectional preferences. I think that your example military offensive (Q2001676)object class of action (P12913)defender (Q111729140) is more like a selectional preference than a statement about a fine-grained semantic role, as individuals that play the defender (Q111729140) role in an action/event instance are not likely to be instances of defender (Q111729140) but rather instances of something like agent (Q24229398).

I'm looking for general solution to fine-grained semantic roles, not a just few properties that cover part of the problem. Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 20:22, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your description of how object of action (P12912) and object class of action (P12913) work is correct and extensible to the other properties I listed. To my knowledge, no one has put together a list of these properties before, but I have done so in the table below. Obviously, I can't guarantee that any proposal will go through, but it looks like agent of action is in a strong position to do so. By "a property that uniquely connects the pairs", do you mean the pairs of properties in my bullets? Because the relationship between object of action (P12912) and object class of action (P12913) is not the same as that between source of transfer (P12693) and destination of transfer (P12694). As to the fine-grainedness of semantic roles, I think object of statement has role (P3831) would be sufficient where greater specificity is required – only with these properties, it would be narrowing down the sematic role indicated by the main property, unlike in the current proposal, where it is used to generalize from the selectional preference/requirement given by the value of the main statement to a broad semantic role. In fact, in that sense, the present proposal is misnamed: as you point out, defender (Q111729140), projectile (Q49393), etc. are selectional preferences/requirements, not semantic roles. But back to your concern about coverage: Anatole has listed 25 semantic roles in his table, which are covered on Wikidata as follows (this mapping may not be exact, but I think it's pretty darn close):

UMR semantic roles	Wikidata property
actor, causer	"agent of action" (currently proposed)
force, stimulus, cause, reason	has cause (P828)
undergoer, patient, theme, affectee	object of action (P12912) or object class of action (P12913)
recipient, goal	destination of transfer (P12694) or destination point (P1444) (note, not has goal (P3712), which describes a desired state, whereas the UMR role seems to describe a location)
experiencer	no specific existing or proposed property, but probably largely covered by object of action (P12912)/object class of action (P12913)
instrument	uses (P2283)
start	start point (P1427) or source of transfer (P12693)
companion	together with (P1706) (note that a companion is relative to an agent rather than an action directly, which is why this is a qualifier)
material/source	source of material (P2647), made from material (P186), or source of transfer (P12693) as appropriate (this is really more than one semantic role)
place	location (P276) and its sub-properties
temporal	any Wikidata property with datatype 'time' (Q18636219)
extent	various numerical-valued properties
manner	has characteristic (P1552)
purpose	has goal (P3712)
attribute	has characteristic (P1552) and various others; this "role" is pretty nonspecific
result	has effect (P1542)
direction	direction (P560), towards (P5051), terminus (P559), depending on subject class

Some of these properties also accept subjects that are not actions/occurrences, but that doesn't impede their use for filling in semantic slots for actions/occurrences. So you can see that the semantic roles given by UMR are already well covered, especially if "agent of action" is created, and in fact in many cases the existing properties are more fine-grained than UMR. Swpb (talk) 16:06, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb Wow! I had no idea these roles could be so well represented by existing properties. I can quibble a bit. Experiencer and Stimulus are actually quite distinct and deserve more attention, and I'm still dithering about Manner and Attribute being "has characteristic" but on the whole this is pretty comprehensive. I would still want them all collected together under "has semantic role" which provides a way to cluster these properties together as serving this purpose. In addition, as broad as this list is, and as applicable as it is, there are always verbs in every language that have participants that do not fit any of these categories. "has semantic role" also provides a general backoff category for the participants that just don't fit anything else. Why can't we have both, "has semantic role" and "has agent of action"? MarthaStonePalmer (talk) 22:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To me, the fact that this mapping surprises anyone suggests that the "Events and Role Frames" WikiProject has been working in too much isolation from the rest of the project, and should step back and reconsider the redundancy of its approach and its integration. The point is not that Wikidata already has a perfect property for every possible semantic role, but that the mapping of semantic roles to Wikidata properties is already extremely close, just through natural development that didn't originally have semantics in mind, and can continue to be brought closer. The table only lists the roles given by UMR, but I'm confident that for just about any other role you can think of, there is an appropriate property, and if not, one can be proposed. The usual way of grouping properties by function would be to create a Q-item like "Wikidata property that may be used to represent a semantic role", and making the applicable properties instances of it. The problem with having "has semantic role" and properties representing specific roles is that of overlap – on an item like military offensive (Q2001676), would you have both "agent of action"/object class of action (P12913) statements and "has semantic role" statements? I would think not, because the former accomplishes the task better. But then what items would you use "has semantic role" on? I think my table shows that in almost all cases, there is a better property to use. (To wit, the statement at the end of the Motivation section would be better expressed as creation (Q11398090)has effect (P1542)artificial object (Q16686448).) You could argue that "has semantic role" would just be a pseudo-parent property, not meant for use except as a place-holder when a better role-specific property doesn't yet exist, but it would not work that way in practice: generic properties (like of (P642) and the former "as") get used and abused. I see its creation as having a huge downside for very little upside, and I think the proposal should be withdrawn while the WikiProject contemplates the issue. Swpb (talk) 14:15, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb Of course the correct approach would be to always use the more specific property if available. However, you still haven't addressed my point about recourse to a general "has semantic role" property when there are no appropriate more specific "role" properties available. On the other point, how is "thing thrown" a selection preference? The "thing" could be anything concrete, including a building if Superman is around, or anything abstract, as in an "election" being thrown. I take your point about defining a Q item to collect all of these "role" properties together, so I'll withdraw the suggestion of using "has semantic role" for that purpose. It could just be one of such properties used primarily for backoff purposes, and for things like Experiencer and Stimulus until we come up with better property definitions. I really don't see what we are suggesting as competing with what you are doing, but rather complementing it. MarthaStonePalmer (talk) 17:26, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I thought I did address the idea of recourse to a general property when no appropriate property is available: first, there almost always is an appropriate property available, and second, from experience, when a "general" property exists, many editors will use it when they should be using a more specific property, instead of figuring out what that specific property is. That creates ongoing cleanup work for other editors. If "has semantic role" is created, I'd want to see the property description make VERY clear that it is not to be used where a more appropriate property exists, and direct editors to a table of such properties – but I think even with that, there will be a lot of lazy misapplication. If there is a gap in role-specific properties, like "experiencer", we should propose that property and then create statements with it, instead of creating temporary statements to be migrated later. As to the distinction between semantic roles and selection preferences when metaphor gets involved, I'll leave that to you linguists – it doesn't seem to bear directly on my main concern with the proposal. Swpb (talk) 18:10, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb I totally agree with wanting to discourage use of a general property when more specific properties are available. We went through your table above in our meeting this afternoon, and we're perfectly happy with almost all of your mappings. We also much prefer the use of properties for semantic roles - they embody the implied semantic relationships more naturally. That's why we've persisted for the last 8 months in our endeavor to get at least one such property approved. We were just so daunted by the thought of trying the same thing with more than one property that we didn't even consider it. But if you've already done most of the work, more power to you, and we will happily tag along. With respect to the table, after due deliberation on whether together with (P1706) would really work since it is primarily a qualifier, and looking at several examples, we decided it's fine. The same for has characteristic (P1552) for Manner and Attribute. After initial reservations, we all came around. However, Extent and Direction need some refinement. Extent needs to be broader since it isn't always numerical. Any type of change in degree can be included in Extent, and could be described as imprecisely as "an extreme increase in foreclosures." Direction is also primarily a trajectory which needs to be carefully distinguished from an end point (up above in Goal), but that just means removing terminus (P559). That still leaves Experiencer and Stimulus, which can be addressed on another day. There are still two arguments in favor of "has semantic role". 1) As a place to include either your table above or at least a link to it, as well as a link to an appropriately revised version of our "Wikidata:WikiProject_Events_and_Role_Frames" and clear directions about using specific roles if possible;

2) As a catchall when the traditional labels aren't good fits. In English there are predicating elements like "contain, exceed, yield," and "possess" whose arguments don't easily fit traditional roles. A "storage tank" that contains toxic chemicals isn't really an Agent or an Undergoer. Similarly for the "performance" in "her performance exceeds expectations". FrameNet labels the combatants in "The combatants yielded to the invaders" as Capitulators, again, not exactly Agents. Same for Fiona in "Fiona possessed a quirky sense of humor and flaming red hair that were hard to forget." This is one of the reasons FrameNet ended up with over 2000 distinct Frame Elements. Maybe those kinds of events will rarely, if ever, get modeled in WikiData, but, just in case, we could handle them without going to those lengths. MarthaStonePalmer (talk) 23:46, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Martha, I'm delighted your team is recognizing the power of existing properties to express semantic relationships, and I'm happy to work with you to clean up the mappings and identify gaps – I made the table in about 10 minutes, so I'm not surprised it isn't perfect. I assume the best place for those discussions will be on the WikiProject; you can ping me as needed. That said, I can't accept your two remaining arguments for the "has semantic role" property:

1) Properties are meant to be used; if the primary goal is to make it easier for editors to find a different property they should really be using, there are much more appropriate ways to do that: properties are categorized by subject, and there are navigation boxes for properties in different subject areas. There are a number of tools for searching for properties, such as the Prop explorer. There are about 650 subclasses that are used to organize and link related properties together. And there are numerous properties for linking two properties directly, including related property (P1659), subproperty of (P1647), complementary property (P8882), and inverse property (P1696); and properties for this type (P1963) to indicate properties that are appropriate for a given class. And editors can create and share their own means of organizing properties; I have one of my own. Creating a new property just to direct editors to a list of properties is not appropriate.

2) For the examples you give of statements that might require a catchall, there are, again, already properties that are appropriate, or could be appropriate with very little tweaking: without knowing the exact senses you have in mind, we have contains (P4330), greater than (Q47035128) ("exceeds"), product or material produced or service provided (P1056) and by-product (P2821) (various senses of "yield"), owner of (P1830) and has characteristic (P1552) for different senses of "possess". By simply adding properties for specific relations as the need arises, Wikidata has already developed quite a deep bench, and when a new need is demonstrated, it's not usually hard to get it met, either through a new property or rescoping an existing one. This model does not need, and in fact in some ways suffers from, the presence of catchall properties.

For those reasons, it's still my position that this proposal should be withdrawn. If everything I'm saying is wrong and there's a real need for this property, it won't be hard to get it approved later, but if it is found to be problematic after being created and used, it will be a bit of work to get the cat back in the bag. Swpb (talk) 15:13, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb Your position appears to be that there are already existing properties (namely the properties for thematic roles) that cover some of the cases where "has semantic role" is to be used for and that the missing ones can easily be added. But what about cases where there is no existing (or even not existing but generally accepted) thematic role? Martha has mentioned several of these but there are many others. I don't expect that there are properties in Wikidata for all the possible situations that could arise and it doesn't seem possible to handle these situations by creating a new property on a case-by-case basis. The proposal here is that "has semantic role" can be used as a general property and it will cover all the situations without having to create a lot of new properties. Is there another way that this could be handled? If so, what is it? Without a fallback I don't see how this important kind of information can be captured in Wikidata. Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 14:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My position is that there are existing properties not just for some, but for virtually all cases, with greater or lesser specificity. I think I've provided appropriate properties for every case given so far, including Martha's latest; if there are, as you say, many other cases that do not fall into any of the roles already mapped to existing properties, I have yet to see them. As I've explained, the problem with "general" or "fallback" properties is that they always end up being used in place of more appropriate, specific properties. This is not idle speculation; this is exactly what happened with the now-deprecated "as" property, and the current property of (P642) which is taking an enormous effort to deprecate. There is certainly no gap in Wikidata's ability to express semantic roles that is large enough to justify creating another such headache. The biggest gap is that of agent, and there is an active proposal to close it, which AWesterinen of the Event Roles and Frames WikiProject is opposing. Swpb (talk) 15:24, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Peter F. Patel-Schneider, MarthaStonePalmer, HajicJanSr, SkatjeMyers, Kitchengoose, AWesterinen: Pinging to make you aware of my rationale for opposing, in case it affects your thoughts on the proposal. Swpb (talk) 17:50, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb Thanks for your thoughtful comments. We could indeed use object class of action (P12913) for most selectional preferences. Events doesn't always come across as actions, as so it might be a bit counter-intuitive at times. We can also keep object of action (P12912) where it is currently being used, just as we can keep "practiced by" for the "eater" of "eating." We can add it to our table of semantic roles in our Project description, "Wikidata:WikiProject_Events_and_Role_Frames". But if you look at that table you'll see that we have a lot of additional roles, most of which do not have properties already defined. One of our main goals is to come up with a consistent predictable way of defining event/action participants and an easily understood process for doing so. I don't see why we couldn't say that object of action (P12912) is a subproperty of our proposed "has semantic role", unifying what are currently quite diverse ways of specifying participants. It is hard to do that for "practiced by" since it has a lot of alternative uses, but maybe that isn't true of object of action (P12912)? MarthaStonePalmer (talk) 23:08, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since object of action (P12912) and object class of action (P12913) extend to events that are not actions per se, their labels or descriptions could be adjusted to reflect this, but I have found that in most cases where there is an undergoer, the event is an action. You say that most of the semantic roles in Anatole's table don't have properties, but I don't believe that's true – the existing properties just haven't been explicitly mapped to semantic roles before, but I have done so in the table in my reply to Peter above. Logically, object of action (P12912) and the other role-specific properties could be sub-properties of the one proposed here (which is misnamed because it really indicates a selectional preference/requirement rather than a semantic role), but I don't see when you'd ever want to use the latter property when the more specific former ones cover all the roles we have identified. Swpb (talk) 16:18, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb I commented on your table up above. I'm impressed with the coverage provided by existing properties, but I still see an hierarchy of semantic role properties as being valuable as explained above. I don't agree when you say "has semantic role" is really for selectional preferences, not roles, although I can see how "defender (Q111729140)" and "projectile (Q49393)" might have caused that confusion. Selectional preferences are really a separate issue. Our intention is to use the participant descriptions in the PropBank Frame Files that are intended to be very action specific and very intuitive. With that in mind we should have said "entity attacked" rather than "defender (Q111729140)". Since "defender (Q111729140)" was an existing Q item that was close to "entity attacked" we used it. But a selectional preference for either "entity attacked" or "defender (Q111729140)" would be different, something like "animate"/"organization". "projectile (Q49393)" is actually "thing thrown" in the PropBank frame and that's what we should have used instead. "projectile (Q49393)" is even more confusing. Our idea is to populate the participant information semi-automatically using both the PropBank specific descriptions as well as the more general UMR roles that you have listed in the table which are also associated with the PropBank function tags. MarthaStonePalmer (talk) 22:35, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've mostly responded above, but I'll add here that I really don't think the problem is one of imprecise labels. For all intents and purposes, "projectile" and "thing thrown" are the same thing. On an earlier version of this proposal, I argued against creating a whole set of semantic-derived items that more or less mirror existing items; that's just a recipe for confusion. This is the reason we have aliases. Swpb (talk) 14:22, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Swpb I still strongly support this "has semantic role" proposal and indeed have issues with the [agent (class) of action proposal] (as noted on that page). I am very supportive of reusing specific properties for instance level declarations such as "agent of action", object of action (P12912), uses (P2283) for the role of instruments, etc. Please see my comments on the "agent of action" proposal. AWesterinen (talk) 05:26, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@AWesterinen: You're welcome to maintain your support, but, with respect, I don't think you've engaged with any of my criticisms of this proposal, either here or on the agent of action proposal page. I've responded to your comments on that proposal there, but I don't see anything to respond to with respect to this proposal. Swpb (talk) 14:25, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support I think this makes sense. However it looks like examples 4 and 5 are mixed up? ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:41, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@User:ArthurPSmith, I think you're right. I switched them. Thanks for catching that!MarthaStonePalmer talk]]) 20:56, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would think projectile (Q49393) is the instrument (Q6535309) of throwing (Q12898216) rather than a theme or destination. Swpb (talk) 17:45, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@MarthaStonePalmer, so an (optional) instrument in "throwing" could be gloves? Or something like a slingshot (but in a throwing context)? Or simply the hand? All of these seem correct to me in one way or another Egezort (talk) 19:42, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Swpb. Instruments as thematic relations are typically intermediaries. The key in I unlocked the door with a skeleton key/ the screwdriver in I repaired the fan with a screwdriver, etc. In the prototypical case the Agent has contact with the Instrument and the Instrument has contact with the Patient or Theme. In the throwing event, the frisbee isn't being used by the agent to accomplish a particular purpose, it is the thing in motion as a direct result of the Agent's action, so it wouldn't typically be labeled as an Instrument. MarthaStonePalmer (talk) 20:51, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Egezort ‘Threw the ball with my hand’ or ‘kick the wall with my foot’ sound a bit odd because the hand and the foot are already implicit, but you can certainly ‘hit someone with a fist/stick/pillow/etc’ where they are alternative instruments. Or ‘catch the ball with a baseball glove/catcher’s mitt/a racket/etc.’. MarthaStonePalmer (talk) 15:39, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If the creator(s) of this proposal are not inclined to withdraw it, I believe it is time to close it as failed. The central problem I pointed out almost a month ago – the mess invariably created by overlapping/generic/fallback properties – has not been refuted, and an overriding need for such a property (i.e., semantic roles that do not map to any existing property) has not been demonstrated. Six of the eight supporters of the proposal (including the proposer) are participants of the WikiProject that developed it (rather than arriving here independently); all eight announced their support before I fully explained the problem, and the three who have replied since have (I think they would agree) not refuted that problem. MarthaStonePalmer, apparently speaking for the WikiProject, wrote that "we're perfectly happy with almost all of your mappings. We also much prefer the use of properties for semantic roles". Another project member, Peter F. Patel-Schneider, has moved on to developing a model for expressing semantic information that lines up with the longstanding (if previously implicit) practice of using properties to represent specific semantic roles. No one has spoken in support of this proposal in the past 14 days. I believe there is ample reason this property should not be created, little energy remaining behind the push to create it, and the proposal remaining open may be distracting from efforts on more appropriate modeling of event semantics. Swpb (talk) 14:08, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎objects of action have role (aliases: role of objects of action | undergoers have role | patients have role )

Under discussion

Description	role that objects of this action take on in the context of this action. (For selectional restrictions, use object class of action (P12913) instead.)
Represents	role (Q4897819) of object (Q175026)
Data type	Item
Example 1	employee recognition (Q96377259)objects of action have roleemployee (Q703534) (where object class of action (P12913) would be human (Q5))
Example 2	freight transport (Q651658)objects of action have rolecargo (Q319224) (where object class of action (P12913) would be goods (Q28877))
Example 3	(as qualifier) interference (Q283117)has effect (P1542)ejection (Q5350113)objects of action have rolebaseball player (Q10871364), spectator (Q63443976) (where object class of action (P12913) would be human (Q5))
See also	object class of action (P12913), object of statement has role (P3831)

Motivation

This property will offload a use case from the recently created object class of action (P12913). It has been observed that values of that property usually represent selectional preference (Q124051768) (i.e., classes to which individual objects of the action belong permanently), but in some cases, the values instead represent a role (Q4897819), which individual objects only take on in the context of that action, rather than as a defining feature. Furthermore, in some cases it may be valuable to specify both selectional preferences and roles for the same type of action, which cannot be done with the overloaded property. Under this proposal, object class of action (P12913) will retain the selectional preference (Q124051768) meaning (with its description clarified accordingly), and this new property will take on the role (Q4897819) meaning.

Whereas object of statement has role (P3831) identifies roles inhabited by the (syntactic) object of the statement it qualifies, this property identifies roles of the (semantic) object of the action identified by the statement. For example, on interference (Q283117)has effect (P1542)ejection (Q5350113), the object of the statement is ejection (Q5350113), whereas the objects of that action are humans with roles of baseball player (Q10871364) or spectator (Q63443976). The latter roles require the proposed property to express accurately. Swpb (talk)

Discussion

monument ID in the archive of Linz

Ready ^Create

Description	Identifier in the monument database published by the regional government of Linz, Austria containing ≈1,700 objects
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	[1-9]\d*
Example 1	Statue of John of Nepomuk, Ebelsberg (Q37785315) → 1441
Example 2	Q122944242 → 238
Example 3	Esperanto memorial (Q12347248) → 3083
Example 4	Friedensobelisk (Q37790482) → 2752
Source	https://stadtgeschichte.linz.at/denkmal/
Formatter URL	https://stadtgeschichte.linz.at/denkmal/Default.asp?action=denkmaldetail&id=$1

Motivation

Related to Wikidata:WikiProject WLM/Mapping tables/AT (de) and could be used in de:Vorlage:Denkmalliste Österreich Tabellenzeile, de:Vorlage:WLPA-AT-Zeile once the template uses Wikidata values. -- Hans Koberger (talk) 08:06, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

@Herzi Pinki, Regiomontanus, Braveheart: I'm happy to hear your opinion. :) –- Hans Koberger (talk) 08:06, 22 August 2024 (UTC) @Maclemo: --Herzi Pinki (talk) 09:25, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support --Herzi Pinki (talk) 09:25, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- Clemen s 14:05, 22 August 2024 (UTC) Useful for a direct link to the city's website and to keep up with them when they are taken down from the site (what sometimes happens).[reply]
Please add three examples, not just one. Midleading (talk) 14:25, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Looks fine to me, just hope all the political changes in Linz won't have a negative effect on these efforts! Braveheart (talk)

in Linz we trust. ansonsten etwas off topic. :-) --Herzi Pinki (talk) 14:18, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎CNES identifier

Under discussion

Description	unique identifier assigned to health installations in the Brazilian National Registry of Health Facilities, maintained by the Department of Information and Informatics of the Unified Health System using geographic data from the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics
Data type	External identifier
Domain	item, identifier (Q853614)
Allowed values	^\d+$
Example 1	Hospital for Rehabilitation of Craniofacial Anomalies (Q10298543)CNES identifier[3506002790564]
Example 2	Clinical Hospital of the University of São Paulo (Q5908682)CNES identifier[3550302076926]
Example 3	Clinics Hospital of the University of Campinas (Q3823777)CNES identifier[3509502079798]
Source	https://cnes.datasus.gov.br/
Planned use	adding qualifiers to instance of (P31) statements with values as hospital (Q16917) and medical facility (Q4260475)
Number of IDs in source	~432k
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	http://cnes.datasus.gov.br/pages/estabelecimentos/ficha/index.jsp?coUnidade=$1
Wikidata project	WikiProject Medicine WikiProject Medicine (Q4099686) WikiProject Hearing Health (Q123226125)

Motivation

The National Registry of Health Establishments (Brazilian Portuguese: Cadastro Nacional de Estabelecimentos de Saúde) is a unique registry assigned to each health facility in Brazil, maintained by the Department of Information and Informatics of the Unified Health System of the Brazilian Ministry of Health. The data is structured in a way that is linked to geographic data from the Brazilian Institute of Geography and Statistics, allowing the identification of each health facility within the administrative and geographic divisions of Brazil. The National Registry of Health Establishments consolidates the registration of over 432 thousand health facilities, listing primarily establishments of the Public Unified Health System, and presenting a high degree of completeness and curation, with the data being an integral part of participatory management models and government transparency mechanisms. CorraleH (talk) 01:15, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

I just think it should be named less ambiguously. CNES more commonly refers to the French space agency. --Prototyperspective (talk) 21:09, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

agent of action & agent class of action & agents of action have role

agent of action (aliases: agent | actor)

Under discussion

Description	particular item that initiates this action or class of actions
Represents	agent (Q392648), actor (Q23894381)
Data type	Item
Example 1	German December 16 suprise attack in the Battle of the Bulge (Q116504918)agent of actionArmy Group B (Q157572) Source
Example 2	Opening of Tokyo 2020 games (Q116504974)agent of actionNaruhito (Q217096) Source
Example 3	Johann Philipp Reis demonstration of the Reis telephone to the Physical Society of Frankfurt (Q116504999)agent of actionJohann Philipp Reis (Q77124) Source
Example 4	(as qualifier) Lilienthal Memorial (Q116608846)significant event (P793)reconstruction (Q2478058)agent of actionAlfred Paul Trenkel (Q114590753)
See also	of (P642), object of action (P12912), object class of action (P12913), objects of action have role (proposed), has cause (P828)

agent class of action (aliases: agent class | actor class | agent selectional preference | agent selectional restriction )

Under discussion

Description	class of items that may initiate this action or class of actions
Represents	agent (Q392648), actor (Q23894381)
Data type	Item
Example 1	crime (Q83267)agent class of actionhuman (Q5), group of humans (Q16334295)
Example 2	competition (Q841654)agent class of actionhuman (Q5), group of humans (Q16334295)
Example 3	telephone call (Q2296401)agent class of actionhuman (Q5), auto dialer (Q2872595)

agents of action have role (aliases: role of agents of action | agents have role | actors have role )

Under discussion

Description	role that agents of this action take on in the context of this action
Represents	semantic role (Q117747915) of agent (Q392648)
Data type	Item
Example 1	crime (Q83267)agent of action have rolecriminal (Q2159907)
Example 2	competition (Q841654)agent of action have rolecontestant (Q5165152)
Example 3	telephone call (Q2296401)agent of action have rolecaller (Q113293705)

Motivation

Needed to express information about agents of actions. Resolves concerns raised on previous proposal here. The three properties proposed here are exactly analogous to object of action (P12912), object class of action (P12913), and objects of action have role (proposed), respectively:

"agent of action" identifies the particular entity responsible for the subject action or class of actions
"agent class of action" identifies the fixed class(es) of entities that may act as agents of the subject action or class of actions (i.e., selectional preference (Q124051768))
"agents of action have role" identifies non-fixed role(s) that agents take on in the context of the subject action or class of actions

All three properties are to be usable as both main statement properties and as qualifiers. A major initial use of these properties will be migration of statements using the set-to-be-deprecated qualifier of (P642).

All three properties are effectively sub-properties of has cause (P828) (which does not differentiate between particular causes, classes of causes, and context-specific roles of causes). – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Swpb (talk • contribs) at 19:55, August 27, 2024‎ (UTC).

Discussion

Support The examples for class vs role are helpful in understanding why we need to separate them. All humans on Wikidata are only instances of human (Q5). Aliases like "done by", "done by class", and "done by role" should be used too. -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 00:59, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Initialism

Under discussion

Description	abbreviation containing only first letters of an expression (regardless if pronounced as letters or as a word) Abkürzung, die nur aus den Anfangsbuchstaben eines Ausdrucks besteht (egal, ob als Buchstaben oder als eigenes Wort ausgesprochen) (de) – (Please translate this into English.)
Data type	Monolingual text
Example 1	United States of America (Q30)initialismUSA
Example 2	Holy Roman Empire (Q12548)initialismHRE
Example 3	National Aeronautics and Space Administration (Q23548)initialismNASA
Example 4	Orange County (Q5925)initialismOrange
Source	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym#Nomenclature
Planned use	being able to relocate the initialisms from short name (P1813) in order to change them to "longer" short names, like "United Kingdom"
See also	short name (P1813)

Motivation

The reaction of my question Wikidata:Project_chat#Property:P1813_short_name_with_countries was, that there should be a new property, to be able to move the initialisms used in short name (P1813) to there and to restrict that one to actual short names without using initialisms. This is what I'm trying to do here. Although I have been active on Wikipedia for over a decade, I'm a novice to Wikidata. Therefore this is my first request of this kind. I didn't know how to fill in some of the fields and I would really appreciate someone helping out there.

The further motivation is being able to use short country names for generation of historical place names in the browser extension WikiTree BEE, but I assume others might be happy to have more "handy" names as well, that are not completely abbreviated.

Thanks and kind regards --Flominator (talk) 10:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

An initialism should be just initials, so Orange is a bad example. It includes acronyms (which you should be able to pronounce as words), but also tongue-twisting jumbles of letters. Its key requirement is that its a sequence of initial letters extracted from a title that are commonly used to describe it. Normally all capitals, but sometimes mixed (eg SoHo (Q461572))

Some short name (P1813) are initialisms, but not all, and it will help for countries like United States of America (Q30) (United States, States, US, USA), or organisation like the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Q358834) ("Foreign Office", "FCO", "FCDO" ect)

it need not be single valued. I'd see it being used in addition to short name (P1813), not replacing it. The key question is whether there are enough examples to make it worth having a new property, rather than having a initialism (Q918270) qualifier to the existing property. What property should be used for the qualifier? Vicarage (talk) 10:26, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Encyclopedia

Library

Mapcarta ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a point of interest in Mapcarta.com
Represents	Mapcarta (Q113124866)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	Items, Places, Buildings, Organizations
Allowed values	\d+
Example 1	St Anne's Church (Q1551966) → 34654488
Example 2	Church of the Nativity (Q194504) → 28496948
Example 3	Church of the Holy Sepulchre (Q187702) → 29015802
Source	https://mapcarta.com/
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	Connecting Wikidata items with Mapcarta points of interest
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://mapcarta.com/$1
See also	Google Maps Customer ID (P3749), Wikimapia ID (P7678), Mapy.cz ID (P8988)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Authority control (Q88300058)

Motivation

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control: I propose to create a new property for the geodata host website Mapcarta (Q113124866).

Mapcarta entries can be linked to items for geographical points of interest (URL format: https://mapcarta.com/). --Soufiyouns (talk) 07:43, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Law

Register

‎Finnish Company Number

Under discussion

Description	company number in the Finnish company register The Business Information System
Represents	Business Information System (Q10501290)
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	[0-9]{7}\-[0-9]
Example 1	Yle (Q54718)→https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritys/0215438-8
Example 2	MRP Matila Röhr Productions (Q5486858)→https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritys/0882573-6
Example 3	Q119952108→https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritys/0568656-6
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	There are some items which have the property exact match (P2888) that link here. Also, all items having the property OpenCorporates ID (P1320) with a value of "FI[numbers]" can be migrated.
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Implied notability	Wikidata property for an identifier that does not imply notability (Q62589320)
Formatter URL	https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritys/$1
Robot and gadget jobs	Migrate the values of OpenCorporates ID (P1320) when value is "FI[numbers]" to the property.
Country	Finland (Q33)
See also	OpenCorporates ID (P1320), Swedish Organization Number (P6460), Norwegian organisation number (P2333)
Applicable "stated in"-value	Business Information System (Q10501290)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Finland (Q15060259)

Motivation

National Company Register of Finland. OpenCorporates uses the same codes so it should be easy for someone with a bot to migrate those to the new property.

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Finland

Comment Note that the Finnish company number can be infered from EU VAT number (P3608) by removing "FI" from the beginning and by adding a dash before the last digit. –Samoasambia ✎ 23:10, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support --Zache (talk) 01:58, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Social networking service

Magazine

Authority file

‎NWIS site ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a monitoring or sampling site in the National Water Information System
Represents	National Water Information System (Q129954770)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	item, USGS National Water Information System site (Q129955851)
Allowed values	/^\d{8,15}$/
Example 1	Delaware River at Penn's Landing, Philadelphia, PA (Q129958727)NWIS site IDQ01467200
Example 2	HW-047 NC-40 CHAMPION WELL NR CRUSO REGOLITH (Q129958865)NWIS site IDQ352315082484401
Example 3	USGS NADP RAINGAGE (MS10) NEAR CLINTON MS (Q129958936)NWIS site IDQ321804090244200
Source	https://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis
Planned use	I have a tool (https://github.com/quincylvania/usgs-to-osm) that syncs up NWIS sites to OpenStreetMap. I can modify it to sync NWIS and OSM to Wikidata and also Wikidata back to OSM.
Number of IDs in source	1,756,360 as of 2024-08-27
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://waterdata.usgs.gov/monitoring-location/$1/
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

There are 1.7 million historic and 13,000 current stream gages and other water monitoring sites in the National Water Information System. Each has a unique ID. I have a tool that can sync these up between Wikidata and OSM (see planned use section). QuincyMorgan (talk) 00:07, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Comment Do these sites correspond to existing Wikidata items, or are you proposing to add them all (over 1 million), or what is the plan here? ArthurPSmith (talk) 17:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The sites are not in Wikidata from what I could tell. I assume there is somewhere for import discussions here so I would make a proposal first. We could import all historic sites or limit it just to currently active sites. I still think the identifier would be useful regardless of whether people want these bulk imported. QuincyMorgan (talk) 13:28, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also wikidata:property proposal/Pending for approved items awaiting the deployment of currently unavailable datatypes

Already approved properties: list

‎Tretyakov Gallery artist ID

Ready ^Create

Description	identifier for an artist at the My Tretyakov online collection
Represents	My Tretyakov (Q127510215)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	human (Q5)
Allowed values	\d+
Example 1	Nikolay Sergeevich Tretyakov (Q18156088) → 137369
Example 2	Mikhail Vrubel (Q215100) → 136727
Example 3	Viktor Vasnetsov (Q204138) → 136724
Source	https://my.tretyakov.ru/app/gallery
Number of IDs in source	864 (as of 2024-07-16)
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://my.tretyakov.ru/app/gallery?author=$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Russia (Q10803886), WikiProject Visual arts (Q13627814)

Motivation

Tretyakov Gallery is one of the most famous Russian visual arts museums. It maintains My Tretyakov project which offers wide access to the Tretyakov Gallery collection. Every author in My Tretyakov has an id by which you can quickly find all of his works.

My Tretyakov doesn't provide a page with brief description for any artist, instead if you want to see some info about an artist, you have to open a page of one of his works;
My Tretyakov doesn't have an alphabetical index of authors, best you can get is a drop-down "artist" menu in "Virtual Gallery";
You can get a json of authors by following this link: https://my.tretyakov.ru/api/v1/gallery/get/
A small amount of ids correspond to organization instead of a person;
Other similar online collections of Russian museums: Pushkin Museum artist ID (P12715), Virtual Russian Museum artist ID (P12716), Museum of the Russian Academy of Arts artist ID (P12894), Wikidata:Property proposal/Hermitage Museum artist ID

I don't quite understand how to quickly match people by their birth/death years since this data is shown in uncommon place. Podbrushkin (talk) 20:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Vladimir Alexiev Jonathan Groß Andy Mabbett Jneubert Sic19 Wikidelo ArthurPSmith PKM Ettorerizza Fuzheado Daniel Mietchen Iwan.Aucamp Epìdosis Sotho Tal Ker Bargioni Carlobia Pablo Busatto Matlin Msuicat Uomovariabile Silva Selva 1-Byte Alessandra.Moi CamelCaseNick Songceci moz AhavaCohen Kolja21 RShigapov Jason.nlw MasterRus21thCentury Newt713 Pierre Tribhou Ahatd JordanTimothyJames Silviafanti Back ache AfricanLibrarian M.roszkowski Rhagfyr 沈澄心 MrBenjo S.v.Mering Hiperterminal (talk) מקף Lovelano Ecravo Chado07
Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control,
MasterRus21thCentury (talk) Infovarius (talk) MaksOttoVonStirlitz (talk) evs (talk) putnik (talk) Niklitov (talk) Redboston (talk) Arbnos (talk) Erokhin (talk) Андрей Романенко (talk) AndyVolykhov (talk) Vladimir Solovjev (talk) Stolbovsky (talk) Brateevsky (talk) Podbrushkin (talk)
Notified participants of WikiProject Russia,
User:Zolo
Jane023 (talk) 08:50, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
User:Vincent Steenberg
User:Kippelboy
User:Shonagon
Marsupium (talk) 13:46, 18 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
GautierPoupeau (talk) 16:55, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Multichill (talk) 19:13, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Susannaanas (talk) 11:32, 12 August 2014 (UTC) I want to synchronize the handling of maps with this initiative[reply]
Mushroom (talk) 00:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Jheald (talk) 17:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Spinster (talk) 15:16, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
PKM (talk) 21:16, 8 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 17:12, 7 January 2015‎ (UTC)[reply]
Sic19 (talk) 21:12, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wittylama (talk) 13:13, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Armineaghayan (talk) 08:40, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Musedata102 (talk) 20:27, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hannolans (talk) 18:36, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
User:Martingggg
Zeroth (talk) 02:21, 4 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
User:7samurais
User:mrtngrsbch
User:Buccalon
Infopetal (talk) 17:54, 9 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Karinanw (talk) 16:38, 24 March 2020‎ (UTC)[reply]
Ahc84 (talk) 17:38, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
User:BeatrixBelibaste
Valeriummaximum
Bitofdust (talk) 22:52, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Mathieu Kappler
Zblace (talk) 07:22, 24 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oursana (talk) 13:16, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ham II (talk) 08:30, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
DaxServer (talk) 16:00, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Notified participants of WikiProject Visual arts,
Tubezlob VIGNERON Jane023 Pigsonthewing Ambrosiani Spinster Wittylama Fuzheado Daniel Mietchen Marsupium Martingggg Anne-LaureM Beat Estermann Manu1400 Mauricio V. Genta Patafisik MartinPoulter Tris T7 BeatrixBelibaste Clifflandis Mrtngrsbch Reciproque Weadock313 (talk) 21:56, 27 November 2019 (UTC) ProtoplasmaKid Crowjane7 Scarey1 (talk) 11:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC) Zblace Suna no onna Maxime Ravel Antoine2711 S.v.Mering[reply]
Notified participants of WikiProject Museums Podbrushkin (talk) 19:11, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support --MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 12:19, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Podbrushkin: I was about to create this property but the examples in the proposal don't seem to have any results. The formatter URL seems to work fine (e.g. https://my.tretyakov.ru/app/gallery?author=138196) so do you know what happened to those specific artists in the examples? --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 09:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Lewis Hulbert Looks like ids of these artists have been changed. Now they are: Tretyakov, Vrubel, Vasnetsov. Does it mean ALL ids have been changed? Does it mean they will be changed in future too? I don't know. Podbrushkin (talk) 12:25, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎Yediot Books book ID

Ready ^Create

Description	book identification number for the Publisher "Yediot Books"
Represents	no label (Q129565931)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	book (Q571)
Allowed values	\d+
Example 1	The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (Q951060)Yediot Books book ID5111
Example 2	The Picture of Dorian Gray (Q82464)Yediot Books book ID4030
Example 3	Crime and Punishment (Q165318)Yediot Books book ID5119
Source	https://www.ybook.co.il/pages/yedioth-books
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	more than 100
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://www.ybook.co.il/book/$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control: I recommend assigning an ID to Yediot Books (Q6776398), big book publisher. Their site has practical information accessible through the "more details" button. For instance, in the first example:

המבנה של מהפכות מדעיות / תומאס ס. קון הוצאה:עליית הגג ומשכלת; הוצאה:0/2005; נושא:מדע ופילוסופיה; מספר עמודים:342; סוג כריכה:רכה; שפת מקור:אנגלית; תרגום:יהודה מלצר; שם הספר בלועזית:Tha Structure of Scientific Revolutions; שם המחבר/ת בלועזית:Thomas S. Kuhn; דאנאקוד:3621915; ISBN:965-449-738-1

like some others that I will try to check and find the time to submit later (Steimatzky (Q2903995), Tzomet Sfarim (Q6743833), Simania (Q6680757), e-vrit (Q6879881)), this helpful when you want to find the bibliographic details for articles about these books.

Thank you! · ^מקףHyphen_෴ · 14:29, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Wikidata is normally about 3rd-party sites that cover a number of companies, what gap does this proprietary one fill? Back ache (talk) 08:46, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I now comprehend the situation, and I will draw conclusions regarding the potential alternative future options. The first two options are deemed unsuitable, while the last two are viable, and I will list them separately (#3 is a 3rd-party site, #4 allowing to access the first chapter of each book and many more - helpful in the same way the current one is, and further). Anyway , the current proposed property target contains valuable information, as outlined earlier (for example, דאנאקוד is Danacode (Q113022438)). Therefore, a link based on it could be integrated into the Hebrew Wikipedia editorial templates and maybe even as a content templates. It is important to consider that this book publisher contains a set of sub-publishers. · ^מקףHyphen_෴ · 19:00, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Useful id. The Q129565931 content description about the book. Already linked fro he.wki - 88 links also en.wiki 12 links, fr.wiki 5 links etc. Geagea (talk) 09:13, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Agree with the arguments of the previous supporters. E L Yekutiel (talk) 20:06, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GameKombo video game ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a game in the GameKombo database
Represents	GameKombo (Q128856001)
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	World of Tanks (Q590342)→world-of-tanks
Example 2	S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chornobyl (Q10865101)→stalker-2-heart-of-chornobyl
Example 3	Manor Lords (Q97338068)→manor-lords
Source	https://gamekombo.com/game/
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://gamekombo.com/game/$1/
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Video games (Q8485882), Ukraine (Q212)

Motivation

There are no Ukrainian-language databases with video games in the Ukrainian Wikipedia. This is the first Ukrainian-language site about video games with a game database. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wimankis (talk • contribs) at 23:22, 11 August 2024‎ (UTC).[reply]

Discussion

applsdev Arlo Barnes BugWarp Coloradohusky CptViraj Cupkake4Yoshi Cwf97 Cynde Moya Danrok Datumizer Dexxor Diggr Dispenser Dollarsign8 DoublePendulumAttractor EdoAug Edolusill Eniehack Facenapalm Floyd-out FullyAwesome Harshrathod50 Jean-Frédéric Keplersj Kirilloparma Lewis Hulbert LotsofTheories Macocobovi Macrike Master Of Ninja Matthias M. Metafire18 Nicereddy Odjob16 Oduci Poslovitch Rampagingcarrot RampantSpirit Santer Sight Contamination thgiex Tomodachi94 VGPaleontologist Wd-Ryan WikiSyn YotaMoteuchi
Notified participants of WikiProject Video games --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 10:25, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Matthias M. (talk) 11:01, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support ―Applsdev (talk) (contribs) 05:41, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The database contains only 2 pages for games. There are 24 games on one page and 20 on the second one. This gives a total of 44 identifiers. Is it really worth creating a separate property here? Wouldn't it be better to use described at URL (P973) for now? Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 02:25, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Checked, yes, only 44 items, Half of the minimum requirements. But this is a game site, it is actively being filled, and there are no Ukrainian-language game databases on Wikipedia. Wimankis (talk) 11:37, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ConLang Code Registry code

Under discussion

Description	3-letter identifier for language defined in the ConLang Code Registry, using codes reserved for private use in ISO 639-3
Represents	ConLang Code Registry (Q107713633)
Data type	String
Domain	languages
Example 1	Black Speech (Q686210) → qbs
Example 2	Ithkuil (Q35846) → qit
Example 3	Idiom Neutral (Q35847) → qin
Source	https://www.kreativekorp.com/clcr/
Planned use	assign value to relevant languages
Number of IDs in source	255
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Robot and gadget jobs	Not that I know of

Motivation

Currently, many conlangs (constructed languages) that don't have official ISO 639-3 codes have an ISO 639-3 code (P220) value listed anyway, for a code issued by the ConLang Code Registry; they generally take the format Black Speech (Q686210)ISO 639-3 code (P220)qbsissued by (P2378)ConLang Code Registry (Q107713633). The problem is that this is wrong: the ISO 639-3 standard defines the codes qaa-qtz as "reserved for private use", which means that anyone can use them for any purpose, and still be compliant with the standard. The fact that the ConLang Code Registry has issued codes in this range does not mean that these conlangs have actually received ISO 639-3 codes, though; it just means that a completely separate organisation has decided to issue codes which just-so-happen to be in ISO 639-3's private use range.

This is obviously intentional, as it allows them to be used as language codes without conflicting with the official ISO standard, but that doesn't mean we should have statements which claim they're actually part of the standard. Simply saying that the code is "issued by the ConLang Code Registry" doesn't make it clear that the ConLang Code Registry is not entitled to issue ISO 639-3 codes, and therefore obscures the fact that the code isn't actually part of the standard in the first place (i.e. that the statement is wrong). Outside of conlang communities, these codes see almost no use, and they may conflict other privately-issued codes used in other communities.

To get around the issue, I'd like to propose a separate property for the ConLang Code Registry, so that these codes can be listed without polluting the data for those who only want information on official ISO 639-3 codes. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Theknightwho (talk • contribs) at 12:47, August 16, 2024‎ (UTC).

Discussion

Support This makes sense to me. Are there really 255 of these? ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:24, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ArthurPSmith Yes - 252 active codes and 3 retired ones according to https://www.kreativekorp.com/clcr/. There are 520 codes in the private use range (qaa-qtz), which is the theoretical maximum, and growth is quite uneven, with some years seeing very few codes added (2 added in 2021), while others see many (32 added in 2023). Codes are retired if they're replaced by genuine ISO 639-3 codes. Theknightwho (talk) 21:18, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 11:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't think this would be a good idea.
It's not a coincidence that the ConLang Code Registry (CLCR) codes are in ISO 639-3's private-use range, the whole point is that they are private-use ISO 639-3 codes for use as ISO 639-3 codes.
ISO 639-3 provides the set of private-use codes for people to use how they want, which means that users assign their own meanings. It's true that other places may assign conflicting meanings, but that's why those statements all have a qualifier saying who gives it that meaning. Conflicts shouldn't be a problem either, we can use constraints like single-best-value constraint (Q52060874) and/or add separator (P4155) to the constraint.
The existing statements shouldn't pollute the data if you're using it correctly. The items with private-use codes also have a no value statement set to preferred rank to indicate that they have no official code, and if you're looking at all statements, you need to take ranks and qualifiers into account for the data to be meaningful anyway.
The real issue here is: How should we model usage of private-use codes? This isn't limited to CLCR or even ISO 639-3 (e.g. XK is widely used as the ISO 3166-1 code for Kosovo, Qaag is used by Unicode and CLDR as the ISO 15924 code for Zawgyi, U+F8D0 is the Unicode codepoint normally used for the Klingon letter "a"), so I don't think it makes sense to have a property specifically for CLCR's private-use ISO 639-3 codes. We should have a model we can apply to private-use codes in general instead.
- Nikki (talk) 09:23, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

cnkgraph person ID

Ready ^Create

Description	ID of a person in cnkgraph
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Li Bai (Q7071) -> 15188
Example 2	Zhu Xi (Q9397) -> 24704
Example 3	Duke Ping of Song (Q1095018) -> 6
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	126820
Formatter URL	https://cnkgraph.com/People/$1

Motivation

cnkgraph is a knowledge graph of historical Chinese people and works. --GZWDer (talk) 14:33, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support Extensive information and linking on each individual. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:24, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

cnkgraph poem ID

Ready ^Create

Description	ID of a poem in cnkgraph
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Q18837346 -> 15179
Example 2	Q85464362 -> 283237
Example 3	Q43370469 -> 139069
Example 4	Q17372245 -> 333
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	1414334
Formatter URL	https://cnkgraph.com/writing/$1

Motivation

cnkgraph is a knowledge graph of historical Chinese people and works. --GZWDer (talk) 14:51, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support includes the poems, looks very nice. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:23, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

cnkgraph book ID

Ready ^Create

Description	ID of a book in cnkgraph
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Guliang Zhuan (Q1138569) -> 7385
Example 2	今古學考 (Q18860717) -> 4192
Example 3	New Songs from the Jade Terrace (Q3560476) -> 2016
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	16224
Formatter URL	https://open.cnkgraph.com/Book/$1

Motivation

cnkgraph is a knowledge graph of historical Chinese people and works. --GZWDer (talk) 14:59, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support Looks like it also has full text of these works. ArthurPSmith (talk) 18:21, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ACUM IDs

ACUM Performer ID

Ready ^Create

Description	Identifier for a performer (artist) in the ACUM database
Represents	ACUM Database (Q129271550)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	human (Q5), musical ensemble (Q2088357)
Allowed values	[1-9]\d*
Example 1	Kohava Levy (Q21104229) –> 1701
Example 2	Static & Ben El Tavori (Q46247565) –> 151731
Example 3	Static (Q26833615) –> 119642
Example 4	Kaveret (Q898073) –> 1700
Example 5	Menachem Zilberman (Q12409276) –> 3124
Example 6	Shlomo Artzi (Q966848) –> 1269
Example 7	Renana Ne'eman (Q16129250) –> 123285
Example 8	The Beatles (Q1299) –> 23860
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://nocs.acum.org.il/acumsitesearchdb/results?performerid=$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	ACUM Database (Q129271550)

ACUM Creator/Publisher ID

Ready ^Create

Description	Identifier for a creator or publisher in the ACUM database
Represents	ACUM Database (Q129271550)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	human (Q5), record label (Q18127)
Allowed values	I-\d{9}-\d
Example 1	Static (Q26833615) –> I-003015336-5
Example 2	Yarden Peleg (Jordi) (Q31785163) –> I-003553862-4
Example 3	Menachem Zilberman (Q12409276) –> I-000198966-6
Example 4	Shlomo Artzi (Q966848) –> I-000151826-7
Example 5	Renana Ne'eman (Q16129250) –> I-003813645-5
Example 6	Anana (Q65249935) –> I-000133560-8
Example 7	Paul McCartney (Q2599) –> I-001654863-1
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://nocs.acum.org.il/acumsitesearchdb/results?creatorid=$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	ACUM Database (Q129271550)

ACUM Work ID

Ready ^Create

Description	Identifier for a work in the ACUM database
Represents	ACUM Database (Q129271550)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	musical work/composition (Q105543609)
Allowed values	\d{6}
Example 1	Tudo Bom (Q30432608) –> 427024
Example 2	Q65250460 –> 037413
Example 3	Imagine (Q16342332) –> 251038
Example 4	Lu Yehi (Q6852728) –> 329368
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://nocs.acum.org.il/acumsitesearchdb/work?workid=1$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	ACUM Database (Q129271550)

ACUM Album ID

Ready ^Create

Description	Identifier for an album in the ACUM database
Represents	ACUM Database (Q129271550)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	album (Q482994)
Allowed values	\d{6}
Example 1	He lost his way (Q6960178) –> 000858
Example 2	Poogy Tales (Q7051976) –> 067551
Example 3	Rebel Bell (Q111709500) –> 109939
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://nocs.acum.org.il/acumsitesearchdb/album?albumid=$1
Applicable "stated in"-value	ACUM Database (Q129271550)

Motivation

English: The ACUM Database (Q129271550) is a very useful resource and has information about musicians, composers, producers, songs, albums, record labels, etc.,and has coverage of both Israeli and international entities. It will be helpful for this information to be cross-linked to Wikidata, and thus also be easily available on any interested Wikipedia. Additionally, I found that the performer (artist) ID is already included occasionally in the J9U records (National Library of Israel Names and Subjects Authority File (Q106509962)), and we should be able to use that to cross-reference. לוכסן (talk) 03:04, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

עברית: ACUM Database (Q129271550) שימושי במיוחד וכולל מידע רב על זמרים, מלחינים, מפיקים ,שירים, אלבומים, חברות תקליטים ועוד, גם מישראל וגם מחו"ל. יועיל שמידע זה ייכלל בויקינתונים ומשם גם בוויקיפדיה העברית ובוויקיפדיות אחרות. אעיר שמזהה המבצע (אמן) נכלל לפעמים ברשומות ה־J9U, ואז נראה לי שנוכל להיעזר בהן. לוכסן (talk) 03:04, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support · ^מקףHyphen_෴ · 20:25, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎Encyclopedia of Brno History literature ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for people related to the city of Brno and its history
Data type	External identifier
Domain	item
Allowed values	[1-9]\d{1,5}
Example 1	In omnibus glorificetur Deus: dvě stě let od povýšení na opatství: katalog k výstavě (Q118291558) → 14985
Example 2	Ilustrovaný encyklopedický slovník: díl III. (pro-ž). (Q129500710) → 10555
Example 3	Bibliografie díla Bedřicha Václavka (Q129501342) → 22304
Source	https://encyklopedie.brna.cz/home-mmb/?acc=literatura
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	27155
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://encyklopedie.brna.cz/home-mmb/?acc=profil_literatury&load=$1

Motivation

Very good source for literature related to Brno city. We have similar ids of this website. Skim (talk) 15:40, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Czech Republic

WikiYeshiva article ID

Ready ^Create

Description	identification number for the articles of "WikiYeshiva"
Represents	yeshiva.co (Q8052817)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	Halakha (Q107427), human (Q5)ת synagogue (Q34627), Jewish liturgy (Q6190072) etc.
Allowed values	[ %!\"$&'()*,\-.\/0-9:;=?@A-Z\\\^_`a-z~\x80-\xFF\+]+^[1]
Example 1	Bereishit (Q819077)WikiYeshiva article IDפרשת בראשית
Example 2	Q12403807WikiYeshiva article IDאין אדם משים עצמו רשע
Example 3	Mordecai (Q1136380)WikiYeshiva article IDמרדכי היהודי
Example 4	Reshit Chochmah (Q7315371)WikiYeshiva article IDראשית חכמה
Source	https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php/Special:Statistics
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	template:WikiYeshiva (Q26056440)
Number of IDs in source	thousands
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/index.php/$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

↑ "legaltitlechars": " %!\"$&'()*,\\-.\\/0-9:;=?@A-Z\\\\^_`a-z~\\x80-\\xFF+", from https://www.yeshiva.org.il/wiki/api.php?action=query&meta=siteinfo&siprop=general

Motivation

Notified participants of WikiProject Authority control:

I recommend assigning a property of yeshiva.co (Q8052817)'s wiki ID. It will help us to allow editors to easily add external links templates. Thank you! · ^מקףHyphen_෴ · 17:45, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support - PKM (talk) 22:22, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Jonathan Groß (talk) 07:04, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Geagea (talk) 09:28, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. E L Yekutiel (talk) 20:08, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

case id (mainland China)

Under discussion

Description	unique identifier of a legal proceeding in the jurisdiction of mainland China
Data type	External identifier
Domain	mainland China court decision (Q125456254), legal case (Q2334719)
Example 1	EN ZH → `（2018）最高法行再26号` [lit. (2018) Supreme - Administrative - Retrial #26]
Example 2	EN ZH → `（2016）京73民初277号` [lit. (2016) Beijing 73 - Civil - First-trial #277]
Example 3	EN ZH → `（2016）豫民终347号` [lit. (2016) Henan High - Civil - Appeal #347]
Example 4	Q129820073 → （2024）鄂0102行初375号 [lit. (2024) Hubei 0102 - Administrative - First-trial #375]
Example 5	c:Category:Sentences of Ruan Xiaohuan on Feb 10, 2023 (page 1) → `（2021）沪02刑初67号` [lit. (2021) Shanghai 02 - Criminal - First-trial #67]
Example 6	c:Category:Sentences of Lü Gengsong on Feb 5, 2008 (page 1) → `（2008）杭刑初字第29号` [lit. (2008) Hangzhou - Criminal - First-trial #29]
Planned use	To be used for uniquely tagging case documents and decisions from courts and authorities in mainland China.
Number of IDs in source	around 45 574 000 court cases assigned with a case id in the year of 2023.^[1]
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886) (Not all cases have written judgement text published to the public.)
Country	mainland China (Q7262427)
See also	U. S. Supreme Court docket number (P7063), Supreme Court of Canada case number (P12592), Supreme Court of Sweden case number (P8407)
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

This is a restart of WIPO Lex ID (P12720), which I proposed in Wikidata:Property_proposal/case_number_(mainland_China), but the community finally defined the property as WIPO Lex ID, since all examples (court judgements/decisions) I introduced in the proposal were from the WIPO website. :D
Today when I wanted to enter data for this property, I find it completely changed, but reasonable.

I'm re-proposing the China property here.
For any formal judgement from a court (or eligible authority) in mainland China, there's a unique case id (案号, lit. case number) assigned to that legal proceeding. See third line (right-aligned) of Page 1 of a formal court decision. This id is almost the same as U. S. Supreme Court docket number (P7063).

There's a definitive regulation of case ids published in 2015 by China's supreme court. An unofficial English translation is available here if you're interested.

Case ids before 2015 (start of nation-wide digitization) can't be expected to follow a fixed style or format. So I would like to allow this property as a free-form text field, rather than a very strict one. --XsLiDian (talk) 14:04, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

‎The Indian Express Topic ID

Under discussion

Description	Identifier for a topic on the news website The Indian Express
Data type	External identifier
Domain	people, events, political parties, companies, administrative entities, etc.,.
Example 1	Mahesh Babu (Q2087610) → mahesh-babu
Example 2	Air France (Q131005) → air-france
Example 3	Samsung Galaxy Note 9 (Q51072203) → galaxy-note-9
Formatter URL	https://indianexpress.com/about/$1
See also	The Times of India topic ID (P4204)

Motivation

The Indian Express (Q1954843) is one of the daily broadsheet newspapers in India. It organizes various topics by their topic ID. DaxServer (talk) 11:55, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

‎Hindustan Times Topic ID

Under discussion

Description	Identifier for a topic on the news website Hindustan Times
Data type	External identifier
Domain	people, events, political parties, companies, administrative entities, etc.,.
Example 1	Mamata Banerjee (Q465041) → mamata-banerjee
Example 2	Seoul (Q8684) → seoul
Example 3	Ayushman Bharat Yojana (Q55604588) → ayushman-bharat-scheme
Formatter URL	https://www.hindustantimes.com/topic/$1
See also	The Times of India topic ID (P4204)

Motivation

Hindustan Times (Q41595) is one of the India's largest circulated English broadsheet daily. They organization news by topics described above DaxServer (talk) 11:06, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Person

Picture of this person doing their job

Under discussion

Description	picture of a person in action, especially for a sportsperson, visual artist, musican, actor. P18 is normally used for portraits
Data type	Commons media file
Domain	Q5
Example 1	Chiara Kreuzer (Q5331554) = 20190226 Seefeld SJ 4720.jpg
Example 2	Jakob Eiksund Sæthre (Q87721657) → File:20200222_FIS_NC_COC_Eisenerz_PRC_HS109_Men_Jakob_Eiksund_Saethre_850_4504.jpg
Example 3	María Ólafsdóttir (Q19264382) = file:20150516 ESC 2015 Maria Olafs 9813.jpg
Example 4	Cornelia Kreuter (Q87345351) = file:20190315 Dancing Stars 1100.jpg
Example 5	Lars Ulrich (Q106193) = file:Lars Ulrich live in London 2008-09-15.jpg
Example 6	Angela Merkel (Q567) = file:President Joe Biden meets with German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the G7 Summit.jpg
Source	Commons:Category:People
See also	subproperty of Property:P18 ; Property:P109, Property:P1801, Property:P1442, Property:P5775

Motivation

In general, these are better stored in a separate property than in image (P18). The image could be used in wikidata infoboxes on Commons similar to Property:P109, Property:P1801, Property:P1442, Property:P5775 --Z thomas (talk) 22:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support --M2k~dewiki (talk) 23:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Duplicates information which is more within the scope of Wikimedia Commons (and Commons categories often already have Wikidata items) -عُثمان (talk) 23:51, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't only the scope of commons.

It fits perfectly to the scope of wikidata to provide information, it works also with pictures have a look at properties like p109 or p1442 Z thomas (talk) 12:32, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Of course there is a use at commons for example in the Infobox like C:Category:St. Maria Meeresstern (Werder (Havel)) - three different images of one object Z thomas (talk) 05:22, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I personally don't see the benefit of the property. I can't understand the intention of the image then being displayed in the Wikidata info box either. You have gallery pages on Commons to show stuff like that. --Gymnicus (talk) 08:48, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The images are shown in the wikidata Infobox. This is shown in the commons cat, the gallery pages is something different Z thomas (talk) 21:04, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For example the usage of many different pictures in the wikidata Infobox C:Category:Berlin Greetings Z thomas (talk) 21:07, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support If possible, the image (P18) should always be a portrait. But why not also a picture of the person in his or her typical working environment (athlete, dancer, actress). Similar to buildings, several views are useful (nighttime view (P3451), image of design plans (P3311), image of interior (P5775), schematic (P5555), aerial view (P8592),). --sk (talk) 15:20, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support --Lutzto (talk) 16:44, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support --Derbrauni (talk) 12:14, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Seems quite reasonable to me. For many professions and activities you cannot see the face of the person when this person is doing their job, - at the same time it's quite obvious to have a picture of the person dancing if they are a dancer. Ideally infoboxes could allow customers to switch between these two images. Андрей Романенко (talk) 15:08, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Did any of the people casting support votes even read the label? Having a property that addresses the person in a gendered way (his) seems to be an automatic no. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done, @Z thomas, M2k~dewiki, عُثمان, Gymnicus, Stefan Kühn, Lutzto: @Derbrauni, Андрей Романенко, ChristianKl: no consensus of proposed property at this time based on the above discussion. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 06:52, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I strongly oppose this decision. According to Wikidata:Property creation, It is the job of the property creator to weigh consensus. The mere fact that there were three opposing votes against five votes in favour does not tell anything about the reasonable consensus. The objection of the colleague ChristianKl can be easily solved by renaming the proposed property into Picture of this person doing their job (English is not the mother tongue for the author of the proposal, their original German name of the property does not have this problem). Two other objections just read as "I don't understand why we need it"; in the meantime a clear explanation of why we need it is provided. According to Wikidata:Property creation, All opposing points of discussion should be addressed before creation occurs - this is exactly the case. @ZI Jony:, I believe you have to either elaborate your decision addressing the arguments in favour of this proposal or revert your decision and create this property. Андрей Романенко (talk) 10:46, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @Андрей Романенко:, I understand your frustration, but it's important to note that the decision-making process involves considering all viewpoints. While three opposing votes (which are more than 37 percent) may seem significant, it's also crucial to assess the nature of the objections and the overall consensus. I’d suggest you to discuss with @ChristianKl, عُثمان, Gymnicus:, if they are willing to change their opinions, I'll be happy to mark as ready or revert my decision. Else, we have to consider as not done. Thank you. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 11:32, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  It simply does not work this way. All objections must be addressed, according to the rule. The rule does not claim that all the opposing users must change their opinions; they are even not obliged to come back to the discussion after giving their opinion once. If the objection is only about the name of the property (which is the case for one of the opposing users), it is your responsibility as a property creator to consider possible renaming (and I proposed this renaming). If some users opposed to the proposal and the author of the proposal replied, it is your responsibility to weigh (the word from the WD rule) the arguments. Андрей Романенко (talk) 12:15, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @Андрей Романенко:, I've already taken my decision. If you want to overturn my decision, then you are full free to take this matter to AN. A administrator will revert/reopen the proposal for you. Thank you! Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 13:57, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  
  The policy asks for arguments being addressed before a property is created. It does not ask for addressing points before proposals are closed. That's by design. We frequently have stale property proposals that we close even if there are a lot of unaddressed points made in a discussion.
  
  When creating a new property I expect that people think about how to best name the property and I do think that both label and description matters and someone should do the effort to create good one's in English. " Picture of this person doing their job" is still questionable even if not as obvious. We don't capitalize the first word. The related properties that are listed all use the word image. There's no reasoning given why this one should deviate from that. Anyone who thinks deeply about this property should think about those issues and the fact that nobody did, means that nobody of the people who support this property engaged in the intellectual labor I expect before property creation (so I'm less sure about whether there are other issues that take me more than a minute to think up). ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 11:02, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @ChristianKl With respect, it is not a valid reason to oppose a new property because the label used in the proposal uses inappropriate capitalisation. You are free to update the proposal with the correct capitalisation, now or at any time after creation. What we are looking for is relevant comments on the substance of the proposed property, not minutiae — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:46, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @MSGJ: As long as people vote without doing the bar minimum of thinking about what's invovled it's necessary to cast oppose votes to prevent bad properties to be created. That's the point of why we have the approval process. Preventing ill-thought out properties from being created. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited the description to make it gender neutral and re-opened the discussion — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:50, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@عُثمان, @Gymnicus: if you would like to follow-up on your comments above that might be helpful — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, MSGJ. Let me once again stress the point: we expect from the main picture of a person to give the general idea of what their face looks like. But there are many professionals whose main activity shows them in completely different view. And it is quite reasonable that, for instance, for an ice hockey goalkeeper we'd be able to switch between this and this. I really don't understand wht's wrong in it and why we cannot have for people what we have for buildings. Андрей Романенко (talk) 15:13, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I'm not a native English speaker, so it might even sound wrong, but alternatively I would suggest something like person's job image or image of a person's occupation as a label for the property. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 17:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Z thomas: So what do you think of this suggestion? For comparison, take a look at a recent property I created. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 01:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kirilloparma thanks for your suggestion. I'm fine with it. Everything that helps to improve the proposal is good. And your proposal hits the point well. Greetings from Germany Z thomas (talk) 06:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your reply. I would also like to hear the opinion of @ChristianKl, who previously opposed the proposal because of the current label. What are your thoughts now on the new proposed labels and which one is more appropriate? Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 03:52, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl:, any changes in your opinion? we would you like to hear from you. Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 06:25, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per Stefan Kühn (sk). Dexxor (talk) 09:54, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Stefan Kühn Raymond (talk) 16:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Stefan Kühn --Wüstenspringmaus _talk 07:14, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support There are many subtypes of P18 already, so I think there is a decent precedent for that. I think, though, that we so many kinds of images we perhaps can think of other constructions to not overload the property space. E.g. perhaps a new property for "qualified image" and some structured system of qualifiers. The reusability in Wikipedia infoboxes is a very good argument IMHO. TiagoLubiana (talk) 14:36, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support Germartin1 (talk) 06:46, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 10:13, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User account

Identifier

‎Ôlyrix Person ID

Under discussion

Description	Person ID for the French database Ôlyrix covering the world of opera
Data type	External identifier
Domain	human (Q5)
Example 1	Plácido Domingo (Q130853) → 2881
Example 2	Philippe Jaroussky (Q441502) → 5273
Example 3	Jakub Józef Orliński (Q47004046) → 8538
Source	https://www.olyrix.com/
Number of IDs in source	~19.000^[2]
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://www.olyrix.com/artistes/$1/wd

Motivation

Ôlyrix is a leading French-language portal dedicated to opera, with over one hundred thousand visitors each month.^[3] Tuestor (talk) 18:32, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

↑ "最高人民法院工作报告". 全国各级法院收案4557.4万件，结案4526.8万件，同比分别增长15.6%、13.4%。 For the year of 2023: "45574k new cases; 45268k newly-resolved cases."
↑ "Foire aux questions". olyrix.com (in French). Retrieved August 11, 2024.
↑ "A propos". olyrix.com (in French). Retrieved August 11, 2024.

Discussion

Beat Estermann
Affom
Vladimir Alexiev
Birk Weiberg
Smallison
Daniel Mietchen
Buccalon
Jneubert
Klaus Illmayer
Katikei
GiFontenelle
Antoine2711
Fjjulien
Youyouca
Vero Marino
Celloheidi
Beireke1
Anju A Singh
msoderi
VisbyStar
Gregory Saumier-Finch
Rhudson
DrThneed
Pakoire
Gabriel De Santis-Caron
Raffaela Siniscalchi
Aishik Rehman
YaniePorlier
SAPA bdc
Joalpe
bridgetannmac
Nehaoua dlh28
LiseHatt
Zblace
Bianca de Waal
MichifDorian
Tuestor

Notified participants of WikiProject Performing arts --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 11:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎Operabook Person ID

Under discussion

Description	Person ID for Operabook, a database of opera performances maintained by Opera Europa (Q7096590).
Data type	External identifier
Domain	human (Q5)
Example 1	Plácido Domingo (Q130853) → 5524
Example 2	Philippe Jaroussky (Q441502) → 10258
Example 3	Jakub Józef Orliński (Q47004046) → 33447
Source	https://www.operabook.org/
Number of IDs in source	~42.000^[1]
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://operabook.org/artist/$1

Motivation

Operabook is an initiative from Opera Europa (Q7096590), offering a searchable performance database covering over 450 opera companies worldwide.^[2] Tuestor (talk) 12:02, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

↑ "Operabook, a tangible benefit". opera-europa.org. Retrieved August 13, 2024.
↑ "About". operabook.org. Retrieved August 13, 2024.

Discussion

Beat Estermann
Affom
Vladimir Alexiev
Birk Weiberg
Smallison
Daniel Mietchen
Buccalon
Jneubert
Klaus Illmayer
Katikei
GiFontenelle
Antoine2711
Fjjulien
Youyouca
Vero Marino
Celloheidi
Beireke1
Anju A Singh
msoderi
VisbyStar
Gregory Saumier-Finch
Rhudson
DrThneed
Pakoire
Gabriel De Santis-Caron
Raffaela Siniscalchi
Aishik Rehman
YaniePorlier
SAPA bdc
Joalpe
bridgetannmac
Nehaoua dlh28
LiseHatt
Zblace
Bianca de Waal
MichifDorian
Tuestor

Notified participants of WikiProject Performing arts. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 11:20, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Say Who identifier

Under discussion

Description	identifier of a person on Say Who
Represents	Say Who^(129666348)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	être humain⁽⁵⁾
Example 1	Alain Delon^(106529) → alain-delon
Example 2	Circé Furtwängler^(129671059) → circe-furtwangler
Example 3	Leïla Kaddour-Boudadi^(16655614) → leila-kaddour
Number of IDs in source	~ 45 000 (source)
Formatter URL	https://saywho.fr/mondains/$1

Notified participants of WikiProject France (et en particulier @Thierry Caro: !). Maxime 20:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

École des chartes directory id

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a person in the École des chartes directory
Represents	École nationale des chartes^(273570)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	être humain⁽⁵⁾
Example 1	Fabien Aguglia^(42304167) → fabien_aguglia
Example 2	Frédéric Barbier^(1004154) → frederic-barbier
Example 3	Adélaïde Zeyer^(42307978) → adelaide-zeyer
Source	https://www.chartes.psl.eu/annuaire
Formatter URL	https://www.chartes.psl.eu/annuaire/$1
See also	identifiant École des chartes d'une thèse^(P4465)

Notified participants of WikiProject France. 2A01:CB16:2051:6C0C:D064:CBFF:FE39:12FF 18:49, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Full name

Profession

Work

Politics/public election

Please review Wikidata:WikiProject every politician before proposing. Ping members of project using {{Ping project|every politician}}

--PoliceSheep99 (talk) 02:00, 11 January 2021 (UTC) WikiProject every politician has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. --PoliceSheep99 (talk) 02:00, 11 January 2021 (UTC) WikiProject every politician has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. WikiProject every politician has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. --Lewisiscrazy (talk) 14:45, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

‎APPF registration status

Under discussion

Description	status of registration of this entity with the Authority for European political parties and European political foundation
Represents	Authority for European Political Parties and European Political Foundations (Q28000601)
Data type	String
Domain	European political party (Q24649)
Allowed values	currently registered, formerly registered, never registered
Example 1	European People's Party (Q208242)→currently registered
Example 2	Alliance for Peace and Freedom (Q19834410)→formerly registered
Example 3	European Federation of Green Parties (Q19966963)→never registered
Planned use	Following the creation of the Authority for European political parties and European political foundations, political organisations are required to register with the APPF to obtain the status of European party or foundation. The goal of this property is therefore to distinguish between entities that are currently registered as European parties or foundations, that were previously registered with the APPF, or that never registered with the APPF (but were still valid European parties or foundations before the APPF was created). Currently, "instance of" Q24649 is not sufficient to make the difference between these three categories.
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Country	European Union
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

I'm working on European parties, and I note that current European parties are marked as "instance of" European political party (Q24649), but so are former European parties. It is right for former European parties to be marked as "instance of European parties", but it means that this information alone is insufficient to tell current and former European parties apart, given the registration requirement to qualify as a European political party. This is all applicable to European political foundations. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Julius Schwarz (talk • contribs) at 13:50, August 3, 2024 (UTC).

Discussion

@Julius Schwarz: I think this could be more useful if we created an external ID property for APPF registration pages, which could then have statements with existing qualifier subject has role (P2868) whether the party/foundation is currently registered or removed from the register. For example, this would look like European People's Party (Q208242)AFFP party/foundation ID20201022CPU32631subject has role (P2868)currently registered. –Samoasambia ✎ 15:15, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's an interesting idea! I am not familiar with IDs; how does this work? we can just create an ID out of thin air (since the APPF does not really provide one)? In this case I think you took the string from the URL, but this could change on the APPF side, at some point. Is that an issue? Julius Schwarz (talk) 09:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Julius Schwarz: Yes, we can take the strings that APPF is using in their URLs. It is possible that the IDs won't stay stable but it is not a huge problem. If APPF changes them in the future we can easily change them here too since the number of entries is pretty low (23 at the moment). That happens quite often with other externals IDs on Wikidata. –Samoasambia ✎ 13:53, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So what is the way forward? Can this request be amended or should I submit a new one for the revised property? Julius Schwarz (talk) 12:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Julius Schwarz: Yes, it's fine to amend the existing proposal. Please say if you need any help. –Samoasambia ✎ 17:15, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One more thing: what ID would you take for the parties that were removed? The more I think about it, the more I wonder whether an ID is the right move. Like, what are the concrete benefit to have an ID as property instead of the proposed property? Knowing also that the string found in the URL for existing parties can already be entered as reference number if needed (but, even then, what does that add compared to just adding the URL as a reference?). Julius Schwarz (talk) 20:31, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Samoasambia Any follow-up on this? Julius Schwarz (talk) 11:05, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hotel

Organization

‎Finnish Company Number

Under discussion

Description	company number in the Finnish company register The Business Information System
Represents	Business Information System (Q10501290)
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	[0-9]{7}\-[0-9]
Example 1	Yle (Q54718)→https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritys/0215438-8
Example 2	MRP Matila Röhr Productions (Q5486858)→https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritys/0882573-6
Example 3	Q119952108→https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritys/0568656-6
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	There are some items which have the property exact match (P2888) that link here. Also, all items having the property OpenCorporates ID (P1320) with a value of "FI[numbers]" can be migrated.
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Implied notability	Wikidata property for an identifier that does not imply notability (Q62589320)
Formatter URL	https://tietopalvelu.ytj.fi/yritys/$1
Robot and gadget jobs	Migrate the values of OpenCorporates ID (P1320) when value is "FI[numbers]" to the property.
Country	Finland (Q33)
See also	OpenCorporates ID (P1320), Swedish Organization Number (P6460), Norwegian organisation number (P2333)
Applicable "stated in"-value	Business Information System (Q10501290)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Finland (Q15060259)

Motivation

National Company Register of Finland. OpenCorporates uses the same codes so it should be easy for someone with a bot to migrate those to the new property.

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Finland

Comment Note that the Finnish company number can be infered from EU VAT number (P3608) by removing "FI" from the beginning and by adding a dash before the last digit. –Samoasambia ✎ 23:10, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support --Zache (talk) 01:58, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

National Museum of Archeology, History and Art

See also Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending for approved items awaiting the deployment of currently unavailable datatypes

Cultural heritage

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Cultural heritage, Wikidata:WikiProject Intangible Cultural Heritage

Other related projects: Category:Cultural heritage WikiProjects

National Historical Museums of Sweden object ID

On hold

Description	authority identification for an object in the collections of the National Historical Museums of Sweden
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	[0-9A-Z]{8}-[0-9A-Z]{4}-[0-9A-Z]{4}-[0-9A-Z]{4}-[0-9A-Z]{12}
Example 1	Streiff (Q10681657) → https://samlingar.shm.se/object/A4B754D2-5CB6-4FA1-997A-970250E32044
Example 2	Mosjömadonnan (Q10589526) → https://samlingar.shm.se/object/7C505995-EBF5-4106-BBEE-17F52BB3EA83
Example 3	Elizabeth Reliquary (Q26253636) → https://samlingar.shm.se/object/8BA2743C-5065-438B-9FAA-D854606DB716
Source	https://samlingar.shm.se
Planned use	Matching and creating items in the collection that are depicted on Wikimedia Commons
Number of IDs in source	1 300 000
Expected completeness	no label (Q21873886 (always incomplete))
Formatter URL	https://samlingar.shm.se/object/$1
See also	Nationalmuseum Sweden artwork ID (P2539)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

Needed to be able to matching and creating items on Wikidata that are objects in the collection of NHM and that are depicted in images on Wikimedia Commons, for example. / LinneaKarlberg (talk) 12:58, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support Azad Karimi (talk) 13:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support LinneaKarlberg (talk) 13:05, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Eva L Vedin (talk) 13:08, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Elinor Rajka (talk) 19:13, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Azad Karimi (talk) 13:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @LinneaKarlberg:, @Eva L Vedin:, @Elinor Rajka:, @Azad Karimi: coordinating support votes with ones colleagues is not helpful, the property proposal process is in place for a reason. Abbe98 (talk) 22:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, we did not know. LinneaKarlberg (talk) 07:19, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Considering that National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) exists and that other properties from SHM are likely to be proposed in the future(places, events, heritage sites, ect) maybe there should only be one property? As far as I'm aware the UUIDs are unique across the various types and even if that wouldn't be the case one could include the type prefix in the id. Abbe98 (talk) 22:40, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Abbe98: Sure, that would probably work. Do you have an example of another external identifier that includes several different types so I can check how it works? Is it possible then to change the name and details of P9495? LinneaKarlberg (talk) 07:22, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Europeana entity (P7704) would be one example. I would imagine migrating/generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) by: 1. updating the formatter URL 2. adding the agent prefix to existing values 3. updating the label/description of the property Abbe98 (talk) 10:08, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Per the discussion above, I would suggest generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) rather than creating a new property for each type. I cave created a section on the discussion page. Abbe98 (talk) 10:20, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Abbe98

, It would then be necessary to differentiate "agents" from "object". How would you like to do? (incorporate it into the identifier as a general property? or use an external URL formatter?) We can also consider that each property will be dedicated to the type (less errors with dedicated constraints). It would be necessary to recontact those who have already voted, as well as the voters of the other property, to find out if your idea appeals to them, but with more information. I don't see a URL leading directly to the correct page without using the type (with only the UUID). Example: type:UUID. Cordially. —Eihel (talk) 03:47, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I would imagine we would use one of the seven possible prefixes like agent/<UUID> and object/<UUID>. We could also use a generic resolver but there isn't an official one so I think such a solution is less optimal. Abbe98 (talk) 06:48, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Abbe98: @Eihel: @LinneaKarlberg: We just had a discussion about this with the Wikidata team at the National Historical Museums of Sweden. Our conclusion is that this property should not be created, and Abbe98's solution (using prefixes) is better. This will include us (WMSE is supporting the museum in their Wikidata work) generalizing National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) and removing /person/ from the formatter URL and then adding the person prefix to all the existing uses of the property. --Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) (talk) 12:10, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) I have pinged all the people who voted on National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495). I think we should leave it over the weekend at least but then if there are no one oposing this I can migrate it early next week. Abbe98 (talk) 12:32, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We at NHM are all on board with this approach instead of several Properties. LinneaKarlberg (talk) 08:09, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like an excellent idea. Many thanks Abbe98 . /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 08:51, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks everyone, I've started re-defining National Historical Museums of Sweden ID (P9495) and will migrate the existing items using it. --Alicia Fagerving (WMSE) (talk) 12:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

National Archives of Sweden persistent identifier

On hold

Description	persistent identifier for objects in the National Archives of Sweden main archival database
Represents	National Archives of Sweden (Q1724971)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	archival resource (Q106815942), document (Q49848), work (Q386724)
Allowed values	Base62-encoded UUID
Example 1	No 2. Elbing. (Q111517198) → eYHMeAFOm4sNVmxKK3M5L2
Example 2	No 3. Elbing (Q111517379) → 0zDW3BS0Gw9Haap2yUVspE
Example 3	No 4. Danzigk wir es Eltere und newer werck (Q111519390) → zmQwWNi2ag9DQGJxnSVmD0
Implied notability	Wikidata property for an identifier that does not imply notability (Q62589320)
Formatter URL	https://sok.riksarkivet.se/arkiv/$1
See also	Swedish National Archive reference code (P5324)
Applicable "stated in"-value	National Archives of Sweden (Q117288060)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

Wikidata-objekt med denna egenskapen kan också ha Nationell Arkivdatabas Referenskod (P5324), men den persistenta identifieraren är enklare att använda för att skapa webbsides-URLer och länkad data-URIer. Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige) (talk) 13:28, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Comment Hi - could you fix your examples to look more like other property proposals (should look like: item → id) ? Also it would be useful to have formatter URL and some of the other template parameters filled out if possible. ArthurPSmith (talk) 14:21, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the feedback! This is my first property proposal so I am very unsure of how to do things. I have reformatted the examples, added URL format and a see also reference. Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige) (talk) 08:22, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Ok, looks good to me now! ArthurPSmith (talk) 15:48, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Jneubert (talk) 05:53, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment are the above examples also the canonical URIs? Considering that the RA has quite a lot of identifiers, could there be a less generic name/description? "primary database" doesn't say much to the average user. Abbe98 (talk) 21:18, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support,
Ainali Belteshassar so9q Vätte Popperipopp Tulipasylvestris Esquilo Daniel Mietchen — with focus on topics related to research (Q42240) VisbyStar Haxpett QubeCube Marcus.linneberg Vitplister Spisen Sollentuna Myohmy671 Autom S4b1nuz E.656 JoranL
Notified participants of WikiProject Sweden —MasterRus21thCentury (talk) 06:36, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It has been created as Swedish National Archive agent ID (P9713) se discussion - Salgo60 (talk) 07:43, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not the same as I understand. This proposal is for objects in archives (maybe even archives or series, though I struggle to come up with a case where they would have a wikidata item). The property you link is for an agent (Swedish: arkivbildare). Belteshassar (talk) 09:15, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Belteshassar, Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige), Abbe98: Dont we make it more complex than needed. Formatter url is the same

https://sok.riksarkivet.se/agent/$1

My suggestion change the name on Swedish National Archive agent ID (P9713) to be both... I have used (maybe wrongly) both for the "person agent" and the "archive agent"

1) List examples nota bene August Strindberg seems to have more person identifiers at the National Archive looks like something that needs to be cleaned at "the National Archive"...

Having 2 different properties is like if someone should connect with Wikidata and add new properties for every type of instance instance of (P31) Wikidata has... ?

Also Swedish National Archive reference code (P5324) is used for both persons and archives

- Salgo60 (talk) 20:35, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, I think this would be useful, perhaps also on commons. I’m not sure how many entries in NAD reference individual works, as I understand the purpose of the proposal, and to what degree those works are notable for Wikidata. Perhaps the creator of the proposal could enlighten me. Belteshassar (talk) 09:23, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- pushed the question also to github.com/Riksarkivet/dataplattform - Salgo60 (talk) 13:24, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment read the thoughts over at the National Archive - Salgo60 (talk) 03:10, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Writing as the original author of this propopsal, I would like to put this on hold for the moment. I realize that this should probably be the RDF URI rather than just the PID. I have to think this over and if I do end up with wanting the RDF URI, there are issues to clear with the format of this. - Nils Weinander (Riksarkivet Sverige) (talk) 11:26, 28 Mars 2023 (UTC)
FYI: Nils is working at the Swedish National Archives with this - Salgo60 (talk) 17:17, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like Nils left Riksarkivet and the whole thing died. I tried to ask about Riksarkivets terms but get odd answers see issue #22 - Salgo60 (talk) 10:53, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cinematography

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Movies

Other relevant projects: Category:Movie WikiProjects

Television

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Movies

‎Trakt episode ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a episode in the Trakt.tv database
Represents	trakt.tv (Q84591894)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	television series episode (Q21191270)
Allowed values	[1-9]\d*
Example 1	Ozymandias (Q15015260) → 73541
Example 2	Blink (Q1885659) → 951467
Example 3	Severed Dreams (Q4310395) → 244779
Source	https://trakt.tv
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://trakt.tv/episodes/$1
Robot and gadget jobs	import uris via IMDb ID (P345), and search [data-episode-id="xxxxxx"] in page source code
Applicable "stated in"-value	trakt.tv (Q84591894)

Motivation

The UUID of the episode on Trakt.tv. It can be found in the source code of the page under the value data-episode-id="xxxx", where xxxx is the episode UUID.

Analogy for the TheTVDb episode identifier. pecela – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pecela (talk • contribs) at 03:14, August 27, 2024‎ (UTC).

Discussion

‎TV Maze character ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a character on the TV Maze film database
Represents	TV Maze (Q84863617)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	television character (Q15773317)
Allowed values	^[1-9]\d*$
Example 1	Cosmo Kramer (Q2916792)→85604
Example 2	Jimmy McNulty (Q6200826)→49349
Example 3	Tyrion Lannister (Q2076759)→15604
Example 4	Saul Goodman (Q7154377)→45535present in work (P1441)Breaking Bad (Q1079)
Example 5	Saul Goodman (Q7154377)→86444present in work (P1441)Better Call Saul (Q14925221)
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://www.tvmaze.com/characters/$1/-
See also	TV Maze series ID (P8600), TV Maze episode ID (P11294), TV Maze season ID (P10669), TV Maze person ID (P11449)
Wikidata project	WikiProject Film (Q8485793)

Motivation

TV Maze is a database of television series for which we already have a number of Wikidata properties for. This may come in handy because ever since IMDb deprecated their character pages there has been a lack of identifiers for television characters.

Unfortunately, there does seem to be some duplication with characters that appear in multiple series (see the Saul Goodman example) but I don't think this is a major problem and it can be dealt with using qualifiers. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 01:09, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Anime and manga

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Anime and Manga

‎Grand Comics Database feature ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier of a comic book feature in the Grand Comics Database (GCD) >
Represents	Grand Comics Database (Q3775045)
Data type	External identifier
Template parameter	comics (Q1004) (especially comic book series (Q14406742)
Example 1	Q48772359→Friedelsheim (Q22984)
Example 2	Adam Strange (Q95158)→Don Quixote (Q480)
Example 3	subject→value
Source	https://www.comics.org/
Planned use	connect GCD and Wikidata
Formatter URL	http://www.comics.org/feature/$1/

Motivation

Feature is used to identify a series, mainly within an anthology, the first example is Inspector Wade, a character created by Edgar Wallace who was adapted as a newspaper strip, without having his own title, the second example is the character Adam Strange, until the 1990s, Strange did not have an eponymous comic book, being published in an anthology.Hyju (talk) 23:52, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Music

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Music

Other relevant projects: Category:Music WikiProjects

Board game

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Board Games

game designer

Under discussion

Description	person(s) who devised and developed this game
Represents	game designer (Q3630699)
Data type	Item
Template parameter	"designer" in en:Template:Infobox game, en:Template:Infobox video game and en:Template:Infobox card game "Autor" in de:Vorlage:Infobox Spiel; "геймдизайнер" in ru:Шаблон:Компьютерная игра and "дизайнер" in ru:Шаблон:Настольная игра
Domain	game (Q11410)
Allowed values	instances of human (Q5) or group of humans (Q16334295)
Example 1	Codenames (Q25203543) → Vlaada Chvátil (Q1791461)
Example 2	The Settlers of Catan (Q17271) → Klaus Teuber (Q61088)
Example 3	Dune (Q389078) → Peter Olotka (Q19662251), Jack Kittredge (Q65936417), Bill Eberle (Q65673817)
Example 4	Portal (Q274897) → Kim Swift (Q6409464)
Example 5	Super Mario Bros. (Q11168) → Shigeru Miyamoto (Q12382), Takashi Tezuka (Q509121)
Planned use	Replace uses of creator (P170), designed by (P287), developer (P178), author (P50), and discoverer or inventor (P61) with the new property

Motivation

Edit: Based on the feedback I have expanded the scope to video games as well. I was hesitant to do this at first because designed by (P287) is already well-established for video games: en:Template:Infobox video game and 2007 video games use it.

5 years have passed since the Property for board and card game creators discussion and we still haven't agreed on how to model relationships between board games and its designers. Currently, there are five competing properties in use – what a mess.

Why I think the existing properties are not sufficient:

developer (P178) is mostly used for video games. Its values are often companies but board game designers aren't.
author (P50) should only be used for written works (I assume this one has so many uses because board game designers are called Autoren in German)
designed by (P287) could be mistaken for graphic designer/illustrator (P110) (especially by German users).
creator (P170) and discoverer or inventor (P61) are too generic. Labels in other languages are often awkward.

But most importantly: it's not obvious to editors which of the above properties they should choose, resulting in the mess we are in. Dexxor (talk) 12:55, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Board Games

Wouldn't it be more practical to turn this into a broader property – "game designer" – that could be used with board games, video games, and maybe even physical games, if there are such cases? I think most of the problems listed above also apply to video games. Currently, designed by (P287) is sometimes used for both the "game scenario ideas" position and the "visuals/illustrations" position. While the examples in this property include Jony Ive with iPhones and a furniture designer - which, to be honest, seems to have nothing to do with game design. And the only other way to fill this position is developer (P178) + video game designer (Q18882335) qualifier. The game designer profession itself seems to be pretty well established to be independently recognized and weighted. Pinging the VG project to see what others think:
applsdev Arlo Barnes BugWarp Coloradohusky CptViraj Cupkake4Yoshi Cwf97 Cynde Moya Danrok Datumizer Dexxor Diggr Dispenser Dollarsign8 DoublePendulumAttractor EdoAug Edolusill Eniehack Facenapalm Floyd-out FullyAwesome Harshrathod50 Jean-Frédéric Keplersj Kirilloparma Lewis Hulbert LotsofTheories Macocobovi Macrike Master Of Ninja Matthias M. Metafire18 Nicereddy Odjob16 Oduci Poslovitch Rampagingcarrot RampantSpirit Santer Sight Contamination thgiex Tomodachi94 VGPaleontologist Wd-Ryan WikiSyn YotaMoteuchi
Notified participants of WikiProject Video games. Solidest (talk) 12:22, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Either this property should be expanded to a general "game designer", or the game artist (P3080) property can be used for board game art. -wd-Ryan (Talk/Edits) 15:10, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm leaning towards the above option "game designer" instead of the specific one proposed. Regards Kirilloparma (talk) 01:52, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Supporting the expanded version. Solidest (talk) 13:35, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tabletopia game ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a board game on tabletopia.com
Represents	Tabletopia (Q96407561)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	social game (Q17351672)
Example 1	Wingspan (Q65784798) → wingspan
Example 2	Terra Mystica (Q17147000) → terra-mystica
Example 3	Go (Q11413) → go
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	Mass-import using matching BoardGameGeek IDs
Number of IDs in source	2594
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://tabletopia.com/games/$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Board and table games (Q9456907)

Motivation

Linking together different databases is one of Wikidata's biggest strengths but board game databases are still underrepresented. Compared to BoardGameGeek, Tabletopia has a simpler UI and offers official rule books that can be downloaded as PDF without login. Dexxor (talk) 21:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Board Games

Board Game Arena ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a game on boardgamearena.com
Represents	Board Game Arena (Q50042959)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	social game (Q17351672)
Example 1	Wingspan (Q65784798) → wingspan
Example 2	Terra Mystica (Q17147000) → terra-mystica
Example 3	7 Wonders (Q17276) → sevenwonders
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Number of IDs in source	916
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?game=$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Board and table games (Q9456907)

Board Game Arena numeric ID

Under discussion

Description	numeric identifier for a game on boardgamearena.com. Use as qualifier
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Wingspan (Q65784798) → 1635
Example 2	Terra Mystica (Q17147000) → 1118
Example 3	7 Wonders (Q17276) → 1131
Formatter URL	https://boardgamearena.com/gamepanel?id=$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

Boardgamearena.com provides lots of useful information about a game, has interactive tutorials, and it often links to other databases like myludo.fr, lad.education, tesera.ru, spellenlab.be, nastol.io, jeuxstrategieter.free.fr, and ludopedia.com.br (for which I will also create property proposals). Dexxor (talk) 22:08, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Board Games

Comment One could argue that the numeric ID should be the main value and the human-friendly ID should be used as qualifier. But since the numeric IDs are pretty well-hidden (you can find them by searching for <span style="display:none" id="game_id"> in the HTML source) I would speculate that the human-friendly IDs are actually more stable/permanent. Dexxor (talk) 22:08, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BoardGaming.com game ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a game on BoardGaming.com
Represents	BoardGaming.com (Q129740046)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	social game (Q17351672)
Example 1	Wingspan (Q65784798) → wingspan
Example 2	Terra Mystica (Q17147000) → terra-mystica
Example 3	Fiasco (Q3744369) → fiasco
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Planned use	Create Mix'n'match catalog
Number of IDs in source	3644
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://boardgaming.com/games/$1
URL match pattern	`^https?://boardgaming.com/games/[^/]+/([a-z0-9₂–_-]+)`
See also	BoardGameGeek ID (P2339)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Board and table games (Q9456907)

BoardGaming.com numeric game ID

Under discussion

Description	numeric identifier for a game on BoardGaming.com. Use as qualifier
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Wingspan (Q65784798) → 65958
Example 2	Terra Mystica (Q17147000) → 32707
Example 3	Fiasco (Q3744369) → 9387
Formatter URL	https://boardgaming.com/?p=$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

This is probably the biggest contender to BoardGameGeek. It has been around since 2010. Dexxor (talk) 11:12, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Board Games

Comment The numeric ID is the Wordpress post ID obtained by searching for postid in the HTML source. I would expect that the numeric IDs become obsolete should BoardGaming.com ever switch away from Wordpress. Dexxor (talk) 11:16, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Video game

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Video games

Other relevant projects: Category:Video game WikiProjects

‎Retromags magazine ID

Under discussion

Description	video game magazine in the Retromags database
Represents	Retromags (Q128997133)
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	(arg\|bra\|can\|cze\|china\|864_finland\|fra\|ger\|jpn\|mexico\|rus\|uk\|usa)\/[\w-]+
Example 1	Computer and Video Games (Q277666)→uk/computer-and-video-games
Example 2	SEGA Magazin (Q13232571)→ger/sega-magazin
Example 3	Joystick (Q3187262)→fra/joystick
Mix'n'match	4750
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://www.retromags.com/magazines/$1
See also	Kultboy magazine ID (P10853)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Video games (Q8485882)

Motivation

This is the core identifier, as that is the main goal of the site: preservation of antiquarian video game magazines similar to Internet Archive (Q461) but more specialized. Matthias M. (talk) 13:39, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

applsdev Arlo Barnes BugWarp Coloradohusky CptViraj Cupkake4Yoshi Cwf97 Cynde Moya Danrok Datumizer Dexxor Diggr Dispenser Dollarsign8 DoublePendulumAttractor EdoAug Edolusill Eniehack Facenapalm Floyd-out FullyAwesome Harshrathod50 Jean-Frédéric Keplersj Kirilloparma Lewis Hulbert LotsofTheories Macocobovi Macrike Master Of Ninja Matthias M. Metafire18 Nicereddy Odjob16 Oduci Poslovitch Rampagingcarrot RampantSpirit Santer Sight Contamination thgiex Tomodachi94 VGPaleontologist Wd-Ryan WikiSyn YotaMoteuchi
Notified participants of WikiProject Video games Matthias M. (talk) 19:07, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WikiProject Periodicals has more than 50 participants and couldn't be pinged. Please post on the WikiProject's talk page instead. Matthias M. (talk) 22:31, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎Altar of Gaming character ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a character in the Altar of Gaming database
Represents	Altar of Gaming (Q129067972)
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Kuma (Q3301530)→kuma
Example 2	Bridget (Q14225189)→bridget
Example 3	Homelander (Q104880994)→john-homelander-gillman
Example 4	Kratos (Q2291154)→kratos
Example 5	Goku (Q2142)→goku
Source	https://altarofgaming.com/characters/
Number of IDs in source	676
Formatter URL	https://altarofgaming.com/character/$1/
See also	Altar of Gaming game ID, Altar of Gaming company ID, Altar of Gaming franchise ID, Altar of Gaming person ID
Applicable "stated in"-value	Altar of Gaming (Q129067972)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Video games (Q8485882)

Motivation

To complement its database of over 6,000 games, Altar of Gaming has a database of 676 characters. --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 09:43, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

‎DOS Game Modding Wiki article

Ready ^Create

Description	article on DOS Game Modding Wiki
Represents	DOS Game Modding Wiki (Q129449260)
Data type	External identifier
Allowed units	`[^#<>\[\]{}\|]+` (bad chars taken from mw:Manual:$wgLegalTitleChars)
Example 1	Interleaved Bitmap (Q2389386)→LBM_Format
Example 2	Command & Conquer (Q868523)→Command_&_Conquer
Example 3	TED (Q129450387)→TED5
Source	https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/Special:AllPages
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://moddingwiki.shikadi.net/wiki/$1

Motivation

It is a source for file formats, video game development tools and data structure of games from the 80s and 90s period. It is already used here via described at URL (P973) so I want to migrate those to a property and expand on it. Matthias M. (talk) 21:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Interwiki Matthias M. (talk) 21:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notified participants of WikiProject Video games Matthias M. (talk) 21:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support ―Applsdev (talk) (contribs) 12:05, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎GameSpot genre ID

Done: GameSpot genre ID (P12958) (Talk and documentation)

Description	genre in the GameSpot video game database
Represents	GameSpot (Q45836)
Data type	External identifier
Allowed values	[1-9]\d*
Example 1	shoot 'em up (Q1044478)→48
Example 2	virtual reality video game (Q87741364)→68
Example 3	open world (Q867123)→39
Source	https://www.gamespot.com/new-games/
Mix'n'match	6338
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://www.gamespot.com/new-games/?sort=date&game_filter%5Bgenres%5D%5B%5D=$1
See also	GameSpot game ID (P5494) GameSpot developer ID (P9402)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Video games (Q8485882)

Motivation

Matching of those to our ontology could be the first step towards importing and referencing video game genre here. Matthias M. (talk) 13:50, 22 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Literature

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Books

Other relevant projects: Category:Book WikiProjects

Scientific literature

Biblioteka Nauki IDs

Biblioteka Nauki article ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for an article on bibliotekanauki.pl
Represents	Biblioteka Nauki (Q113016424)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	scholarly article (Q13442814)
Example 1	Geometrical interpretation of the sinh-Gordon equation (Q130062139) → 714437
Example 2	General principles of law and taxation (Q117536139) → 2010032
Example 3	Privacy and Transparency in the 4th Space: Implications for Conspiracy Theories (Q114023825) → 31234178
Number of IDs in source	571653
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Formatter URL	https://bibliotekanauki.pl/articles/$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Biblioteka Nauki journal ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a journal on bibliotekanauki.pl
Data type	External identifier
Domain	scientific journal (Q5633421)
Example 1	Annales Polonici Mathematici (Q9155888) → 1087
Example 2	Review of European and Comparative Law (Q96719000) → 1176
Example 3	Filozofia i Nauka (Q96701581) → 18618
Number of IDs in source	1700
Formatter URL	https://bibliotekanauki.pl/journals/$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Biblioteka Nauki book ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a book on bibliotekanauki.pl
Data type	External identifier
Domain	book (Q571)
Example 1	Aegyptus et Nubia Christiana. The Włodzimierz Godlewski jubilee volume on the occasion of his 70th birthday (Q125753655) → 1046641
Example 2	New media in the social spaces. Strategies of influence (Q130089387) → 2031079
Example 3	Otwarty dostęp (translation) (Q56242287) → 2143725
Number of IDs in source	1900
Formatter URL	https://bibliotekanauki.pl/books/$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Biblioteka Nauki publisher ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a publisher on bibliotekanauki.pl
Data type	External identifier
Domain	publishing company (Q2085381), higher education institution (Q38723)
Example 1	Jacob of Paradyż University of Applied Sciences in Gorzów Wielkopolski (Q30263914) → 370
Example 2	Centralne Laboratorium Kryminalistyczne Policji (Q30261001) → 388
Example 3	Frontiers Media (Q80796) → 1001
Number of IDs in source	1000
Formatter URL	https://bibliotekanauki.pl/books/$1
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes

Motivation

Open-access library created in 2021 by University of Warsaw with over 571,000 articles, 1700 journals, 1900 books, and 1000 publishers. Dexxor (talk) 23:57, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Open Access

Video

Image

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Visual arts

Podcast

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Podcasts

Theatre

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Performing arts, Wikidata:WikiProject Theatre

Fiction

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Fictional universes, Wikidata:WikiProject Narration

For projects about specific universes, see: Category:Fiction WikiProjects

‎is part of canon

Under discussion

Description	canon status for this creative work, episode or fictional entity in its respective narrative universe
Represents	canon (Q53815)
Data type	Item
Domain	creative work (Q17537576)
Allowed values	instances of canon (Q53815)
Example 1	Radioactive Man (Q1953829)→The Simpsons canon (Q124206593)
Example 2	Treehouse of Horror VII (Q1087745)→unknown (not part of any known canon)
Example 3	Star Wars: Episode IV – A New Hope (Q17738)→Star Wars canon (Q3648466)
Example 4	Star Wars: Rebel Assault (Q55259)→Star Wars Legends (Q3551295) (canon should probably have its own item)
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
Distinct-values constraint	no

Motivation

This proposal is an alternative proposal for Wikidata:Property proposal/Canonicity.

This is a subproperty of part of (P361).
The subject of this property must be a work (Q386724).
The object of this property must be a canon (Q53815)
The property may be used in reference statements, if the object of the reference has no wikidata item. For instance if it is merely a url.

The truthfullness of statements should be evaluated using references. Conflicting statements of non-work entities should be ranked with

preferred: reason for preferred rank (P7452) → at least one source is considered canonical (Q106831793) (example)
depricated: reason for deprecated rank (P2241) → source is not considered canonical (Q124173200) (example)

Non-conflicting, statements should not be qualified with any canonicity evaluations. Instead a reference statement with stated in (P248) should be present. The object of stated in (P248) should itself have a is part of canon statement. This way a user can query which statements are relevant for a particular canon.

A statement without a reference statement should not be considered canonical – Shisma (talk) 09:16, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Valentina.Anitnelav Thierry Caro Shisma Arlo Barnes Tsaorin SilentSpike Maxime জয়শ্রীরাম সরকার Wolverène Rampant Spirit Rtnf dseomn lijil
Notified participants of WikiProject Narration
TomT0m Valentina.Anitnelav Shisma (talk) ElanHR Arlo Barnes (talk) Maria zaos (talk) EEMIV (talk) OmegaFallon (talk) Kurzov (talk) dseomn (talk) Natureshadow (talk)
Notified participants of WikiProject Fictional universes –Shisma (talk) 11:43, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Why are we not allowed to use this on fictional entities?--Trade (talk) 02:08, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

you could qualify almost every statement of a fictional entity with with whether it is canon or not but that would be:

a lot of work
a lot of redundancy

because the question can be answerd purely on the fact if the information is taken from a work that is part of the body of a canon or if it isn't. thats why I propose only qualify conflicting statements with existing properties. It is a common misconception that an information or statement can be canon. A canon is a collection of works – Shisma (talk) 08:10, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I literally said nothing about statements Trade (talk) 14:50, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand. do you have an example? – Shisma (talk) 15:42, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ah, you mean like a character? – Shisma (talk) 15:55, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah Trade (talk) 16:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

so you mean statements like:

Professor Moriarty (Q283111)is part of canoncanon of Sherlock Holmes (Q2316684)

I think it would be more correct and straightforward forward to say:

Professor Moriarty (Q283111)present in work (P1441)The Final Problem (Q228119) + The Final Problem (Q228119)is part of canoncanon of Sherlock Holmes (Q2316684)

But I'd be fine with the former too. Other opinions? – Shisma (talk) 16:39, 9 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, an important property for fiction.--Arbnos (talk) 14:00, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support I have a slight preference for this one. But Trade's proposal has the advantage that it is possible to make it explicit that something is not part of a certain canon (using canon status:non-canon, restricted to the canon using applies to work (P10663), for instance). With this property we can only express that something is not part of a certain canon if we are complete with respect to that canon. We can use <no value> if there is really no canon this work belongs to, but couldn't there be a Simpsons-Sherlock-Holmes-Crossover that is considered part of the Simpsons canon but not part of the Sherlock Holmes canon? (I could not think of a real example and I'm not sure if this is a likely scenario). How would we express this? - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 12:47, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose proving that something is not part of any canon is like proving that something doesn't exist. Maybe it is part of my headcanon that I published on my entirely irrelevant weblog in the late 90s. There would also be an infinite number of works that are not part of a canon. For instance: every Episode of the Simpsons is not in the Sherlock Holmes Canon. I'd say we can add unknown if we don't have a complete catalog of canon items. – Shisma (talk) 16:59, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In general you're right. I was just thinking of cases where one would expect that a work is part of a canon but it is not. E.g. for every episode of The Simpsons (Q886) it may be expected that it is part of The Simpsons canon (or I would expect that), but Treehouse of Horror II (Q2376730) is not. It is somehow more interesting that an episode of The Simpsons (Q886) is not part of The Simpsons canon than that it is part of the canon. It is somehow similar to does not have part (P3113) - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 08:03, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Valentina.Anitnelav: you mean like not found in (P9660) (opposite of described by source (P1343))? – Shisma (talk) 13:00, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, or like this (depending on how you think of the relationship between a canon and its "parts"). On the other hand I think my Simpsons-Holmes-expample (where we could not use <no value>) would be very, very rare. Probably we can just forget about it. - Valentina.Anitnelav (talk) 15:34, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, lets keep in mind that is not part of canon could be useful in the future for edge cases – Shisma (talk) 16:13, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - Weak support. Preferring Trade's proposal. My focus (admittedly I've been on a bit of a wiki-break lately due to IRL priorities) around here has been with works such as the Touhou Project, where canonicity can be fuzzy at times, thanks to the series mostly being the work of just one developer. The first five games in the series were made for the Japanese PC-98 computer in the late '90s. After the PC-98 was discontinued around the turn of the millennium, the series "started over" with 2002's Touhou Koumakyou: the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, featuring Reimu and Marisa (the deuteragonists) but none of the other characters from the PC-98 games. Only two PC-98 characters (Yuuka Kazami and Alice Margatroid) have ever reappeared in a later Windows game, with both having been redesigned to some degree. When asked about the PC-98 games' canonicity, ZUN (the sole creator) has stated multiple times that (paraphrased) "PC-98 canon applies as long as Windows canon doesn't conflict with it." However ZUN doesn't always section everything off, and the fans are left with "Is this still canon or is this decanonized?" type-of-questions. (For example, Yuuka Kazami had a big mansion-esque building in Touhou 4 (a PC-98 game). She (eventually) reappeared in Touhou 9 (a Windows game)... just in a big flower field, with no sign of a mansion. Did it get removed (decanonized) and replaced with the flower field? Did we just not see it in Touhou 9? Who knows! So would "stuff" (I use the term loosely) discarded in such a manner - never outright stated to have been decanonized, but partially overwritten and otherwise not brought up again - be considered part of a "canon of X" item, or do they not? Or would they be part of a separate "canon of X (old)" item? -- Kurzov (talk) 17:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know any particulars of this franchise. But here's my interpretation and how I suppose the proposed property would apply: There is apperently a work that "is part of a canon" and another work that is "(only partially) part of a canon". Sorry for repeating myself: this property is only concerned with works, not anyone's interpretation of what can be seen in them. In short, i'd model this with the qualifier: nature of statement (P5102) partially (Q100349848) –Shisma (talk) 19:18, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We could probably use an item named "loose canon" for this. Trade (talk) 02:41, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Creative work

See also: Wikidata:WikiProject Infoboxes/works

Software products and brands, see: Wikidata:WikiProject Infoboxes/terms

Filial church

Park

Hierarchy of administrative territorial entities

Street

Body of water

Geographic location

Neighborhood

Architectural structure

Outer space

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Space for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Space}}

Classification of human settlements

Other

General

‎WE.League player ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a player at website of WE.League, Japan's professional women's association football (soccer) league
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Hinata Miyazawa (Q47581446)→ 44445
Example 2	Risa Shimizu (Q22130240)→ 44553
Example 3	Hina Sugita (Q17159923)→ 44584
Source	https://data.weleague.jp/SFIX03/
Formatter URL	https://data.weleague.jp/SFIX04/?player_id=$1
See also	J.League player ID (P3565)

Motivation

The WE.League (Japan's professional women's football league) started in 2021. I want to create a Property for the players like the J.League player ID. (Japan's men's league). --Aki no Momijigari (talk) 16:11, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

‎WE.League manager ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for a manager at website of WE.League, Japan's professional women's association football (soccer) league
Data type	External identifier
Example 1	Naoki Kusunose (Q17129848)→ 16532
Example 2	Etsuko Handa (Q11407074)→ 16327
Example 3	Takeo Matsuda (Q7678054)→ 16421
Source	https://data.weleague.jp/SFIX06/
Formatter URL	https://data.weleague.jp/SFIX07/?staff_id=$1
See also	J.League manager ID (P4048)

Motivation

The WE.League (Japan's professional women's football league) started in 2021. I want to create a Property for the managers like the J.League manager ID. (Japan's men's league). --Aki no Momijigari (talk) 16:11, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Sports equipment

Sports venue

Sports team

365scores basketball team ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for 365scores basketball team ID
Data type	External identifier
Domain	basketball team (Q13393265)
Allowed values	[a-z\d]+-[a-z]+-\d+
Example 1	Ratiopharm Ulm (Q266588) → ratiopharm-ulm-380
Example 2	Saigon Heat (Q5308254) → saigon-heat-22995
Example 3	Germany men's national basketball team (Q164592) → germany-2392
Source	https://www.365scores.com
Formatter URL	https://www.365scores.com/basketball/team/$1
See also	365scores football player ID (P12924)

Motivation

Notified participants of WikiProject Sports, 365Scores is the fastest, most accurate online live scores service, serving over 100 million fans worldwide since 2012.--Looniverse (talk) 18:53, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Sporting event

Sports organization

Athlete

Coach

Referee

Equestrian

Wikipedia

Wiktionary

Wikiquote

Wikisource

Wikivoyage

Wikinews

Wikiversity

Wikibooks

Wikispecies

See Wikidata:WikiProject Taxonomy; Wikidata:Wikispecies; wikispecies:Wikispecies:Project Wikidata

Wikimedia Incubator

Wikimedia Commons

image revision-id

On hold

Description	Qualifier to inidicate the particular revision of an image that a statement refers to
Data type	String
Domain	statements with value: media
Allowed values	\d+
Example 1	File:Pigot and Co (1842) p2.138 - Map of Lancashire.jpg (revision-sensitive statement) → 279847594
Example 2	File:Larousse,_Plan_de_Paris,_1900_-_David_Rumsey.jpg (revision-sensitive statement) → 180884966
Example 3	File:1768_Jeffreys_Wall_Map_of_India_and_Ceylon_-_Geographicus_-_India-jeffreys-1768.jpg (revision-sensitive statement) → 345654849
Planned use	To indicate which revision of a map image has been georeferenced on Commons MapWarper. But further use-cases are likely to emerge.
See also	Wikimedia import URL (P4656)

Motivation

Sometimes it is important to be able to indicate which particular revision of a Commons image a Wikidata or SDC statement refers to. For example, georeferencing information will fail to be correct if an image has been cropped. A mechanism is therefore necessary to be able to specify a particular version of a Commons file. Jheald (talk) 13:16, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Proposed. Jheald (talk) 13:16, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is not going to work properly, because, when someone will upload a new version, the file will change its version number, but the value in the property may stay the old one. Moreover, there was a discussion with WMF team, that it's not possible to track different versions so they cannot be stored in Wikidata. --Juandev (talk) 20:21, 29 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- @Juandev: The whole point is that we want the property to point to the old version of the image, because that is the one that the georeferencing was done against, not any later reupload that may potentially have been cropped. Jheald (talk) 22:15, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think the (current) samples give the revision of the file description page, not the image version. --- Jura 09:35, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Good spot. @Juandev, Jura1: It ought to be possible somehow to identify an particular upload version. Worst case, one could make the value URL-valued, and eg specify https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/9/93/20120327114216%21LeKeux_-_Cambridge%2C_c1840_-_Corpus_01_-_memorialsofcambr01wriguoft_0238.jpg for the first version of File:LeKeux_-_Cambridge,_c1840_-_Corpus_01_-_memorialsofcambr01wriguoft_0238.jpg (not that that is a map, but it is a file with several revisions). Jheald (talk) 22:15, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  - Does that work for the current version as well? I think the upload date is probably the only element available in the GUI. Isn't there some hash stored as well? --- Jura 08:03, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    There is no public id for image version. In theory timestamp could be on if we use string as datatype (date doesnt work as its accuracy is YYYYMMDD only) or the log_id of the upload. --Zache (talk) 11:38, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Slight Support. I understand the argumentation, but during my 15 year old presence I havent encountered such situation.--Juandev (talk) 12:47, 15 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Slight Oppose. I do not see the need, and it might not be technically freezable. I am open to change my vote if there is a clear need. --Jarekt (talk) 01:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I marked this proposal as on hold. Currently we have two solutions:

Wait phab:T28741 to be fixed so file versions have unique identifiers
Create a property "image timestamp", but 1. we still does not have the datatype unless we store timestamp as string and 2. timestamp may still be not unique.

--GZWDer (talk) 23:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

depicts lexeme form

On hold

Description	lexeme form depicted in the media file
Data type	Form
Domain	Commons images
Example 1	File:Bandera_de_los_Treinta_y_Tres_Orientales.JPG → L562031#F1 invalid ID (L562031#F1)
Example 2	File:Protests_in_Puerta_del_Sol,_Madrid_-_Ahora_o_Nunca.jpg → L56980#F1 invalid ID (L56980#F1)
Example 3	File:BULLSHIT_rubber_stamp_(mirrored)_on_the_desk_of_a_street_photographer.jpg → L299205#F1 invalid ID (L299205#F1)
Example 4	File:Mrs._Susanna_Morin_Swing_160028v.jpg → L9656#F1 invalid ID (L9656#F1)
Example 5	File:Vignet_Ende.jpg → L29356#F1 invalid ID (L29356#F1)
See also	depicts (P180)

Motivación

In Wikimedia Commons there are thousands of images depicting lexemes (a few of them: c:Category:Images by text, not categorised by language yet). Creating a property to indicate the lexemes depicted in a file would be great (IMHO) with regard to structuring linguistic data in media files. This was posted here. Apparently this was also proposed here a few months ago. strakhov (talk) 16:06, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Comment To make this really useful, wouldn't it be better if it was "depicts lexeme form"? That way, we would capture more specifically what is on the image. Ainali (talk) 17:31, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I don't know. That way it would be captured more specifically what is on the image, for sure, but in the other hand it may make more difficult/complex introducing data. Are there already in Wikidata other properties with the lexeme datatype using forms? strakhov (talk) 10:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Ah, I see there are a few, indeed. Category:Properties with wikibase-form-datatype. strakhov (talk) 10:22, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment After a few checks, I can say it's OK for me changing datatype to "form". strakhov (talk) 10:24, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support since the proposal has been change to form. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 13:28, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is it only for qualifiers? What if we want to add it as a statement to 🆓 (Q87576444), for example? AntisocialRyan (Talk) 18:14, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

- @AntisocialRyan: It's for lexemes. 🆓 (Q87576444) is a normal item. Lexemes are not qualifiers but their own data type. ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:42, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  I'm aware of that, I meant can we add depicts lexeme form: free (L4087) to the item 🆓 (Q87576444)? As a main statement and not a qualifier. AntisocialRyan (Talk) 15:26, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AntisocialRyan: In fact this property is not intended to be used as a qualifier, but as a main statement. But not (at least not mostly) here, but in Wikimedia Commons, with media files. strakhov (talk) 16:10, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see, I misunderstood the examples.

Support. AntisocialRyan (Talk) 17:00, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would like the description to be more explicit about what depicts means. What's valid and what's not valid as an image for depicts? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 13:55, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl: with regard to the description, mirroring P180's English description, "word visually depicted in an image, see also P180 for entities depicted" may work (?). But please feel free to propose a better one.

With regard to what's valid and what not... I guess it's valid when the lexeme form is depicted in the file. Since depicts (P180) has no indication for what's not valid and what is valid, I do not know why this one would need such prescription. Use of P180 is at the discretion of the user and common sense. Anyway, if you believe there are situations when a form is depicted in a file but using this property would not be valid, please indicate them here. strakhov (talk) 15:59, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Strakhov: How is a person supposed to decide whether to use items or lexemes to tackle descriptions? ChristianKl ❪✉❫ 10:23, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@ChristianKl: When depicts (P180) should be used and when not IMO falls under the scope of that property (not this one's), and IMO we cannot decide that here (it's a bit tricky and there are still discussions in Commons about when it's appropiate and when not). Anyway, for example, IMHO in the file c:File:Spain Poznan Spain could by You.jpg it would ok using "depicts lexeme form" = L254265#F1, but it would not be ok using depicts (P180) -> Spain (Q29) (the image is not even taken in Spain, but in Poland). On the contrary, in the file c:File:A.L. Hickmann's geographisch-statistischer universel-Taschen-Atlas. 1900 (80112515).jpg IMHO would be "OK enough" using "depicts lexeme form" = L36513#F1 and depicts (P180) -> Spain (Q29) (both properties). strakhov (talk) 15:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment We should principally be using inscription (P1684) for text on depicted items. Not sure how the present proposal relates to that. And wary that this property might lead to a *lot* of statements per image. Jheald (talk) 15:35, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jheald: inscription (P1684) is for entities, concepts, etc, not text: it's language independent, it does not capture different languages being used nor synonyms in the same language (but it captures senses). I guess the problem with someone adding a lot of "depicts lexeme form" statements is not different to someone adding too many P180/~~P1684~~P6568 statements (that properties could also be abused). Anyway, if someone believes a big "please, do not try to transcribe full book/newspaper pages such as this one while using this property, try to use common sense" is needed... Cheers. strakhov (talk) 15:59, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Sorry, I confused inscription (P1684) with inscription mentions (P6568). strakhov (talk) 14:51, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You are absolutely right about this proposal not relating to that property. My bad, I did not consider that one. Well, I guess inscription (P1684) is good for transcribing full sentences (they can be added in the file description, file caption, as free text,... too). But it's pretty bad when it comes to crosslinking Wikidata Lexicographical data and Wikimedia Commons. I am interested in the latest. strakhov (talk) 15:20, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support with the change to lexeme form, great! Ainali (talk) 08:32, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support in thinking about this, this would open up some interesting possibilities. If we want to document information about what a word looks like written by hand, which can often differ from the digital representation, this would be useful for linking photos showing this to lexeme forms. I uploaded an example of سلسہ just now which I would add this property to if available.

– The preceding unsigned comment was added by Middle river exports (talk • contribs).

I've marked this as on hold, because it's not possible to link to lexemes, senses or forms on Commons. - Nikki (talk) 10:49, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
T304392 on phabricator. strakhov (talk) 15:16, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Question What about homonyms? Those might be forms of distinct lexemes or even of the same lexeme, e.g., in the case of inflection. Are editors adding statements with this proposed property to images supposed to work out which of potentially several possible lexemes (and therefore senses) might apply? Which grammatical features apply? What if the inscription is intentionally ambiguous? Or if the image is taken too far out of context? ―BlaueBlüte (talk) 04:38, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment So far I have just been using subject form (P5830) and subject sense (P6072), see, e.g., https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Lexeme:L43527 — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 10:52, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Adding all images containing a word to the lexeme for the word would be a terrible idea. - Nikki (talk) 13:25, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, an important property for the connectivity of Wikidata.--Arbnos (talk) 21:04, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎VIRIN (Visual Information Record Identification Number)

Under discussion

Description	A VIRIN (Visual Information Record Identification Number) is a unique identifier assigned by the United States Department of Defense to official still photographs, motion picture footage, video recordings, and audio recordings made by USDOD personnel as part of their regular duties
Data type	External identifier
Domain	Commons images
Example 1	→ "120723-F-HA794-089"
Example 2	→ "070412-N-9851B-007"
Example 3	→ "120617-A-ZU930-017 "
Planned use	Add to 500.000+ files on Commons
Number of IDs in source	millions
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)

Motivation

On Commons we have more than half a million files using Commons:Template:ID-USMil. I want to be able to add that to Commons:Commons:Structured data. Multichill (talk) 13:24, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Support - Jmabel (talk) 16:37, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Lewis Hulbert (talk) 23:10, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - PKM (talk) 03:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support makes sense and could be useful. --Prototyperspective (talk) 12:06, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

General

Infrastructure

Aviation

see also: WikiProject Aviation

Water transport

see also: WikiProject Ships

Railway

see also: WikiProject Railways

Road transport

Wheeled vehicle

Intersection

Spaceflight

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Space for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Space}}

General

Physics/astronomy

Please review Wikidata:WikiProject Physics before proposing. Ping members of project using {{Ping project|Physics}}
See also Wikidata:Property proposal/Pending for approved items awaiting the deployment of currently unavailable datatypes.
Please look at Wikidata:List of properties/science/natural science before proposing a property.

‎SIMBAD catalog properties (used more than 1 million times)

Gaia Data Release 2 ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for an astronomical object in Gaia Data Release 2
Data type	External identifier
Domain	astronomical objects
Allowed values	[0-9]{18}
Example 1	BS Cnc (Q2889194) → 661284024235415808
Example 2	Gliese 450 (Q5880899) → 4031586157514097024
Example 3	TYC 3645-2080-1 (Q75838267) → 1943381923013901440
Source	Gaia Data Release 2 (Q51905050)
Planned use	migrate all P528 values qualified with P972 Q51905050 to this property
Formatter URL	https://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=Gaia%20DR2%20$1

2MASS ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for an astronomical object in the Two Micron All Sky Survey
Data type	External identifier
Domain	astronomical objects
Allowed values	J[0-9]{8}[+-][0-9]{7}
Example 1	BS Cnc (Q2889194) → J08390909+1935327
Example 2	Gliese 450 (Q5880899) → J11510737+3516188
Example 3	TYC 3645-2080-1 (Q75838267) → J23350993+4851114
Source	2MASS (Q1454942)
Planned use	migrate all P528 values qualified with P972 Q1454942 to this property
Formatter URL	https://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=2MASS%20$1

Tycho-2 Catalogue ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for an astronomical object in the Tycho-2 Catalogue
Data type	External identifier
Domain	astronomical objects
Allowed values	[0-9]{1,4}-[0-9]{1,4}-1
Example 1	BS Cnc (Q2889194) → 1395-2445-1
Example 2	Gliese 450 (Q5880899) → 2526-2357-1
Example 3	TYC 3645-2080-1 (Q75838267) → 3645-2080-1
Source	The Tycho-2 catalogue of the 2.5 million brightest stars (Q2725928)
Planned use	migrate all P528 values qualified with P972 Q2725928 to this property
Formatter URL	https://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=TYC%20$1

Gaia Data Release 1 ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for an astronomical object in Gaia Data Release 1
Data type	External identifier
Domain	astronomical objects
Allowed values	[0-9]{18}
Example 1	BS Cnc (Q2889194) → 661284019938140032
Example 2	Gliese 450 (Q5880899) → 4031586157514097024
Example 3	TYC 3645-2080-1 (Q75838267) → 1943381923012780160
Source	Gaia Data Release 1 (Q37859523)
Planned use	migrate all P528 values qualified with P972 Q37859523 to this property
Formatter URL	https://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=Gaia%20DR1%20$1

SDSS object ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for an astronomical object in the Sloan Digital Sky Survey
Data type	External identifier
Domain	astronomical objects
Allowed values	J[0-9]{6}\.[0-9]{2}[+-][0-9]{7}\.[0-9]
Example 1	BS Cnc (Q2889194) → J083909.03+193532.4
Example 2	Gliese 450 (Q5880899) → J115106.57+351627.2
Example 3	TYC 3645-2080-1 (Q75838267) → J233509.93+485111.4
Source	Sloan Digital Sky Survey (Q840332)
Planned use	migrate all P528 values qualified with P972 Q840332 to this property
Formatter URL	https://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=SDSS%20$1

OGLE-III object ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for an astronomical object in the Optical Gravitational Lensing Experiment
Data type	External identifier
Domain	astronomical objects
Example 1	R99 (Q22087000) → BRIGHT-LMC-MISC-429
Example 2	R85 (Q28406638) → BRIGHT-LMC-MISC-9
Example 3	SV* HV 2827 (Q74703824) → LMC-CEP-4689
Source	The Optical Gravitational Lensing Experiment. The OGLE-III catalog of variable stars. I. Classical Cepheids in the Large Magellanic Cloud (Q67054966)
Planned use	migrate all P528 values qualified with P972 Q67054966 to this property
Formatter URL	https://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident=OGLE%20$1

Motivation

The specific combination of catalog code (P528) qualified by catalog (P972) is used in 24 million statements, the vast majority of which are for astronomical objects. About 14 million of these statements come from six catalogues, so migrating those statements to use these properties would remove the 14 million triples taken up by the P972 qualifiers. (Another 18 catalogues have more statements than the number of statements for inventory number (P217) with qualifier collection (P195) The Palace Museum (Q2047427)—127545 as of 6 August 2024.)

(This migration would similar to the migration that took place after the properties proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/proper motion components were created. While this page intends to handle only the six largest catalogues, if you believe there are other large catalogues whose catalog codes would do well to be migrated to properties, please say so in a comment.) Mahir256 (talk) 21:56, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

@Mahir256 Is there any specific reason why we want to reduce number of P528 statements? Ghuron (talk) 00:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ghuron: We have dedicated external identifier properties rather than lumping them all in a single property and qualifying them, just as we have dedicated website account properties rather than always using website account on (P553) qualified with website username or ID (P554). This proposal is intended as a logical parallel of both of those decisions. Mahir256 (talk) 17:18, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mahir256: Let me rephrase how I understood your rationalization: if p:P528/pq:P972 wd:Q51905050 occurs more than a million times, then it is both a necessary and sufficient condition for creating a new property, since it reduces the number of triplets and thus reduces the risk of Blazegraph crashing. Is that a correct summary? Ghuron (talk) 22:44, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ghuron: I would not phrase it quite so absolutely, but I do want to see the number of triples reduced and believe this is a way to do it; an extremely high number of identically structured uses of a generic identification property like catalog code (P528) with the same qualifiers suggests that a more specialized identifier property is worth introducing to streamline things, just as has been done multiple times before. Mahir256 (talk) 16:50, 13 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See also Wikidata:Property proposal/New General Catalogue ID, and various failed proposal for properties for astronomical catalogues such as Wikidata:Property_proposal/Archive/15#HD.--GZWDer (talk) 12:28, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NGC ID is actually an example of a misleading external id. This is a very old catalog, and historians are debating how their IDs correspond to objects in modern catalogs. The most authoritative source for that discussion is this site, which is difficult to assign as "formatter URL". SEDS which is used now, is ok only for ~80% of elements. Ghuron (talk) 18:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also proposes (since we have mul aliases) add each of catalog IDs as mul aliases. This is controversial though.--GZWDer (talk) 12:32, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Having unique identifiers for astronomical objects and being able to correlate them is important; something hard to do with catalog code. ArthurPSmith (talk) 20:45, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't think this proposal will improve anything. If anything it may cause further confusion:

As stated by Ghuron, is there any reason why we need to reduce the number of P528 statements? In the first place there are millions of Gaia IDs because of the import of the Simbad database (I am NOT against this import btw).

Also, I wonder why only some catalogues would have their own properties. This will create a weird in-between for catalogues in P258 vs catalogues having their own properties. This makes no sense imo.

Romuald 2 (talk) 15:31, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing wrong with having separate external id properties for most used identifiers with the correct "url formatter".
But I have 2 major objections:

I don't see any reason to use https://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/sim-id?Ident= as a url. Those items that are on simbad, we already have Property:P3083 with the link to simbad. Those rare items that are not on simbad, this link will result in 404
Having in mind (1) it would make sense to link to really useful external storages, that are only partially synchronized with simbad (like HyperLEDA or Gaia Archive). And that leads us to question about proposed set of properties:
1. Why did we choose Gaia DR2, because this is only temporary IDs, permanent are Gaia DR3?
2. Why did we choose Tycho-2, they pretty much 100% imported in Simbad?

Ghuron (talk) 12:52, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Romuald 2: Reducing the number of RDF triples that Wikidata consists of is generally a good thing, as there is a lot of discussion going on about the health of the Query Service and how reducing the number of triples that a single running Blazegraph instance holds is generally a good thing. Also I had noted that there were 18 other catalogs with more entries than the most frequent inventory number source; I only didn't add them to this page because it would have got too long. If these six go through, then I will promptly propose properties for those 18 (and as I stated in the motivation above, if you believe there are other large catalogues whose catalog codes would do well to be migrated to properties, please say so in a comment). Mahir256 (talk) 17:18, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ghuron: The reason I selected the SIMBAD formatter URL is that the external IDs I tried with that URL all seemed to resolve to the right objects; if there are in fact objects for which this resolution doesn't work, it would be great if you could name some. The caveat "(used more than 1 million times)" in the title of this property proposal page is important; because your imports did not yield more than 1 million Gaia DR3 identifiers, I did not think to propose a property for it here, though I'd gladly support one for Gaia DR3 if you think it would be useful. I don't know who "we" is as regards either Gaia DR2 or Tycho-2; you're the one who mass-imported the objects, so I'm working with the catalog codes I see on those objects. Mahir256 (talk) 17:18, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Biology

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Taxonomy for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Taxonomy}}

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Biology for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Biology}}

‎growth rate

Under discussion

Description	growth rate of something over time
Represents	growth rate (Q128214470)
Data type	Quantity
Template parameter	"growth rate" in en:template:infobox taxon
Domain	property, entity (Q35120), taxon (Q16521), creature (Q1274979)
Allowed values	taxon (Q16521) creature (Q1274979)
Example 1	Common Loon (Q190342)growth rate1inch per yearrelative to (P2210)length (Q36253)applies to part (P518)juvenile (Q1516282)
Example 2	Sahara (Q6583)growth rateXX sq. acres per centurytime period (P2348)Miocene (Q76267)
Example 3	Iceberg B-15 (Q738556)growth rateXX sq. kilometers per yeartime period (P2348)1800s (Q39577)
Planned use	Add growth rates to a variety of items that do not have a specific type of growth rate property already
Wikidata project	WikiProject Biology (Q6723002)WikiProject Plants (Q10823481)

Motivation

This would be aimed at taxon but could apply to other things as well. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by AHIOH (talk • contribs) at 02:59, August 1, 2024‎ (UTC).

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Biology Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 04:42, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I see we have real GDP growth rate (P2219) and I guess it would make sense to have a more generic version. However I'm dubious about this proposed application - living things don't grow at a uniform rate over time, generally? And for example for plants I would expect it to be hugely environment-dependent. So - we could use a generic property like this I think, but I'd like to see more realistic examples of how it would be used. ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:39, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, the real GDP growth rate (P2219) as other types of growth rate could potentially be a sub-property of this if it were generalized. This would also reduce the need to create new properties related to growth rate for each aspect of every subject.

Regarding the rate of growth for living things, there appears to be multiple metrics/methods used. One common method that appears to be used is Relative growth rate (Q7310793) however this doesn't appear to be inclusive of all the common ways of relating the growth rate of something.

As you mentioned there are a variety of factors that go into the what the growth rate entails. These would likely be refined using qualifiers such as valid in place (P3005) environment (Q2249676), point in time (Q186408), etc

This could be used for both documented cases of growth over a period of time as well as expected rates based on statistical models.

As far as the implementation it would likely be good to require references and possibly determination method (P459). Rather than define this as an average it might be good to require a nature of statement (P5102) or similar.

This proposal was originally aimed at growth rates of taxon, however for this proposal I think it's better to focus on the generalized growth rate property which could be used in the interim for a variety of use cases rather than limiting to creatures, taxon, etc. I think a separate proposal for "Taxon growth rate", "Plant growth rate", "Animal Growth Rate", and other sub-properties could then be created in cases where there are a common or limiting set of factors that apply. Thanks for the input! AHIOH (talk) 20:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I agree there is some value there, but IMO it needs some more work. I'd say a constraint for sources would make statements reliable enough. And for the label, I guess "average growth rate" would be more precise given the examples. TiagoLubiana (talk) 16:52, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎Larval host plant

Under discussion

Description	Larval host plant - used only for insects - subclass of P1034
Data type	Item
Domain	insect (Q1390)
Allowed values	plant (Q756)
Example 1	Pterophorus (Q3007776)Larval host plantConvolvulaceae (Q145777)
Example 2	Adela septentrionella (Q4681639)Larval host plantHolodiscus discolor (Q3139473)
Example 3	Platyptilia direptalis (Q14121153)Larval host plantTeucrium quadrifarium (Q15245892)
Source	relevant scientific literature/URL
See also	main food source (P1034), host (P2975), has natural reservoir (P1605), has biological vector (P11231)

Motivation

Planning to ingest a large database of lepidopteran hosts - so far maintained by the NHM - and released under CC0 - https://data.nhm.ac.uk/dataset/hosts - it would pollute if we use P1034 and it would not be precise because adult lepidoptera are largely nectar feeders and are not very species specific about the flowers but larvae can be extremely specific and show coevolutionary trends between the hosts and the feeders (which might be visualizable from this data). This is my first ever property proposal so please feel free to make corrections where needed or let me know what else I ought to read up. I might have missed information on cardinality and constraints. This needs to be a subclass of P1034, not sure if that needs to be added in the template. Shyamal (talk) 01:58, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

A qualifier for "in geography" could be added that could be used when species use different hosts in different regions. Shyamal (talk) 02:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Thank you for the proposal! As you mention, we do have main food source (P1034), but also host (P2975) and has biological vector (P11231). I think that ingesting the database would be of great value, but maybe we can use host (P2975) with a qualifier, such as applies to part (P518). A second modelling option — and one that I like in particular — is to use object of statement has role (P3831) as qualifier for the statement.

E.g. Adela septentrionella (Q4681639) host (P2975) Holodiscus discolor (Q3139473) object of statement has role (P3831) larval host plant (Q129425539).

In that way, we would have a flexible structure for different kinds of host relations and we would not need any additional properties. Would that make sense for your needs? TiagoLubiana (talk) 14:59, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have I understood your suggestion right at this entry - Adela septentrionella (Q4681639)? Shyamal (talk) 01:29, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So it would be useful if it could all be queried finally to produce a trophic interaction network, so perhaps main food source (P1034) should also ideally be included under a similar structure. Shyamal (talk) 01:32, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@TiagoLubiana: - host (P2975) is already indeed being used for host plant in some lepidopteran examples so that does look like the way to go. I have set up a file of quickstatements about 140485 rows - if you think the above is good to go, I will start the run. Shyamal (talk) 10:23, 21 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That does look good! A few ideas:

- Perhaps create an item for the HOSTS dataset and use it as value for the stated in (P248) reference too.

- It would be great if the original source of the information could be pulled too, but it seems it is not available on HOSTS.

- 140.000 rows are quite some rows for quickstatements! Maybe a bot would be in order? You could ask for a bot request here: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_permissions/Bot. You can also run it on Quickstatements, as it is a one-of kind of thing (though rules are hazy), but bots are usually faster and a bit more flexible than QS.

- If going the quickstatements route, perhaps run a smaller batch first (100? 1000?) just to make sure everything is aligned with your expectations.

Also, maybe we should move this conversation from here to some talk page. Perhaps in https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Biodiversity? TiagoLubiana (talk) 17:26, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

‎mode of reproduction

Under discussion

Description	ways for living organisms to propagate or produce their offsprings
Data type	Item
Domain	item
Allowed values	item
Example 1	Homo sapiens (Q15978631)→sexual reproduction (Q182353)
Example 2	bacteria (Q10876)→cell division (Q188909)
Example 3	plant (Q756)→asexual reproduction (Q173432)
Example 4	plant (Q756)→sexual reproduction (Q182353)
Planned use	Would like to enable specifying mode(s) of reproduction for any organism or taxon via this property, preferably with references.
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)

Motivation

Currently, for the hundreds of thousands of Wikidata records related to taxa or organisms, there is no easy way to specify the mode of reproduction. This proposed property is intended to fill a gap. --Zhenqinli (talk) 04:37, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Biology. –Samoasambia ✎ 09:33, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Biochemistry/molecular biology

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Molecular biology for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Molecular biology}}

Chemistry

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Chemistry for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Chemistry}}

‎chemical formula

Under discussion

Description	Description of chemical compound giving element symbols and counts
Represents	chemical formula (Q83147)
Data type	Item
Domain	type of chemical entity (Q113145171) group of stereoisomers (Q59199015)
Allowed values	chemical formula (Q83147)
Example 1	2-hydroxy-5-octanoylbenzoic acid (Q209407)→C₁₅H₂₀O₄ (Q129998552)
Example 2	abscisic acid (Q332211)→C₁₅H₂₀O₄ (Q129998552)
Example 3	Santonic acid (Q7420590)→C₁₅H₂₀O₄ (Q129998552)
Example 4	silver bicarbonate (Q27260276)→CHAgO₃ (Q130044611)
Expected completeness	always incomplete (Q21873886)
See also	chemical formula (P274)
Wikidata project	WikiProject Chemistry (Q8487234)

Notified participants of WikiProject Chemistry

Motivation

This proposal addresses the need for improved data structure and maintenance within Wikidata’s chemical compound data. Currently, the Wikidata:WikiProject Chemistry manages approximately 1 million chemical items, with many of them linked to chemical formula (P274) and mass (P2067). The main issues are:

Redundancy in Data: With about 300,000 unique chemical formula strings in use, redundancy is a significant problem. Some strings are associated with over 1,000 items, which complicates data management (see https://w.wiki/B2ax).

Efficiency and Maintenance: Transitioning from string-based formulas to item-based ones will simplify maintenance, reduce redundancy, and optimize query performance, especially for SPARQL queries involving formulas or masses.

Data Optimization: Moving mass (P2067) statements to the newly created formula items will reduce the number of triples and make data management more efficient. Additionally, this change will facilitate the use of different units for masses and allow for better structured data.

Improved Modeling: Switching to item-based formulas could eliminate the need for overly complex has part(s) (P527) statements on chemicals, allowing cleaner, more precise data models (e.g., identifying all chemical formulas containing more than five oxygen atoms).

This change is expected to bring numerous benefits, including reduced redundancy, improved query efficiency, and better data maintenance. The potential downside of increased label editing can be managed, and the overall gain for Wikidata’s chemical data justifies this proposal. If approved, I am prepared to create the necessary items and migrate existing data.

Any further input to refine this proposal is more than welcome!

P.S.: I have no strong opinions if current chemical formula (P274) should be deleted or used on the new items as "Chemical Formula String"

discussion

Support sounds great! Egon Willighagen (talk) 15:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Last night on the boat between Finland and Sweden I thought of another aspect where this would help model the chemistry in Wikidata better. If chemical formula are items (and thanks to GZWDer for showing various Wikipedias decided it was useful too), then they can also subclass each other. We can have an isotope-agnostic chemical formula ( the common case) and subclasses for chemical formula with isotopes.As such it does much more than being something technical (e.g. just about scalability) but actually improve how we talk about the chemistry. Egon Willighagen (talk) 07:07, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Some comments:

I will oppose "Additionally, this change will facilitate the use of different units for masses and allow for better structured data." - For consistency and machine-readability we should stick to one unit. I instead propose Wikidata:Property proposal/formula weight.
Many wikis has pages like C15H20O4 (Q1250089). Some wikis treat it as disambiguation pages; some as set indices; we need to discuss how to handle such existing items. GZWDer (talk) 21:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I looked at the English Wikipedia sitelink-ed page, and that actually looks exactly like a page about a chemical formula. To be honest, this actually sounds like in argument in favor of this proposal and that C15H20O4 (Q1250089) should be of type chemical formula (Q83147). The same for the French WP page, and neither say they are disambiguation pages, but are far more like a category of things with the same property. Just like this proposal, not? Egon Willighagen (talk) 06:58, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was only partially able to follow your mind here. In your proposal, you mention this property if created, thus you would support it? I believe the discussion about mass (P2067) (and units) or other properties is an interesting one this proposal would allow to better discuss/implement, and what I mentioned about these or what is currently on the example item are just ideas, if this new property allows for these things to also improve, even better! AdrianoRutz (talk) 08:51, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose I cannot question arguments raised here about efficiency, but I don't see this as a proper way forward. This proposal completely fails to take into account the fact that for a given chemical entity there may be many – equally correct – chemical formulae (simple example in Q27260276#P274). Moving chemical formulae to another item will not help at all with the most important purpose for which WD exists – using this data. I would see the new property as being created only to assist with specific activities – but not to replace existing properties – and with appropriate disclaimers in the name and constraints that it is a strictly technical property only. Wostr (talk) 22:21, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think this proposal has no problems with alternative formula notations, e.g. like CHAgO₃ (Q130044611). Or? Egon Willighagen (talk) 06:51, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CHAgO₃ and AgHCO₃ are not the same chemical formula. Just as e.g. XeF4O and XeOF4 which would require two different items for the same compound. In fact, for some compounds several new items would need to be created. For some chemical species we would have formulae that have different number of atoms of elements: C₃₀H₄₀F₂N₈O₉, C₁₅H₁₇FN₄O₃·1,5H₂O and C₃₀H₃₄F₂N₈O₆·3H₂O are correct formulae for the same compound, but I don't see a way for this to be reflected correctly by the current proposal. Everything looks fine if you consider only simple organic compounds and their formulae in Hill notation, but it's not that simple especially if we consider some inorganic compounds which are not molecules. Wostr (talk) 12:34, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for this important point! I removed the single value constraint, thus allowing for what you mention. AdrianoRutz (talk) 08:47, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support I also see more benefits than downsides. Support. Wostr I am not sure to understand how this would be a problem even for entities which could be described using different MF sequences of atoms like Q27260276#P274. Indeed the has part(s) (P527) and quantity (P1114) of the MF entity, see C₁₅H₂₀O₄ (Q129998552) would allow to efficiently retrieve such compounds represented in different MF notation systems. What would exactly be the inconvenient in this particular case? GrndStt (talk) 06:22, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, conditional on change of representation to molecular formula (Q188009). As noted in w:en:chemical formula#Types, chemical formula (Q83147) has four separate meanings: empirical formula (e.g. formaldehyde and glucose both have empirical formula CH₂O), molecular formula (e.g. urea and ammonium cyanate both have molecular formula CH₄N₂O in Hill notation, indicating they are isomers), structural formula (a graphical representation of the structure, not so relevant here), and condensed (or semi-structural) formula (e.g. urea has condensed formula CO(NH₂)₂ whereas ammonium cyanate has condensed formula [NH₄][OCN]). Molecular formulas "indicate the simple numbers of each type of atom in a molecule, with no information on structure", which is what we need for mass calculations. They also avoid the issue raised by Wostr regarding non-uniqueness of chemical formulas (e.g. NH₄NO₃ and H₄N₂O₃ are both valid formulas for ammonium nitrate), as each chemical should have a single canonical molecular formula in Hill notation (with the exception of rare cases where there is disagreement regarding structure, e.g. w:en:copper monosulfide). One last potential issue: molecular formulas are often defined as not including isotopes, e.g. PubChem lists both deuterated chloroform and chloroform as having molecular formula CHCl₃. Egon Willighagen's suggestion to have a subclass of [molecular] formulas with isotopic information would resolve this issue though, I think. Preimage (talk) 12:22, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

formula weight

Under discussion

Description	molar mass of an empirical forumula unit of a chemical compound, element or isotope
Represents	formula weight (Q3900742)
Data type	Number (not available yet)
Example 1	C₁₅H₂₀O₄ (Q129998552) => 264.13615911
Example 2	sodium chloride (Q2314) => 57.959 (may be unnecessary once we have Wikidata:Property proposal/chemical formula)
Example 3	Phosphorus pentoxide (Q369309) => 283.9 (P2O5) and 567.8 (P4O10)
Example 4	chlorine (Q688) => 35.45±0.01
Example 5	uranium-238 (Q1148503) => 238.050786996±0.000001602

Motivation

Currently we use mass (P2067) for molar mass of a chemical compound (for individual items about compound). This is problematic for the following reasons:

Many compounds does not contain individual molecules, such as sodium chloride (Q2314) so describing "mass" of sodium chloride (Q2314) is semantically incorrect.
We currently uses different units for molar mass including dalton (Q483261) and gram per mole (Q28924752). To be consistent we does not use a unit in this property.
- In addition gram per mole (Q28924752) is not a mass unit - so it will be bad to put such unit to mass (P2067)
See also Wikidata:Property proposal/chemical formula: a compound can have multiple formulas (e.g. Phosphorus pentoxide (Q369309) can be P2O5 or P4O10). So "mass" of some compound does not has well-defined meaning.

So I propose to split "formula weight" of a compound to a new property that does not use unit.--GZWDer (talk) 21:07, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Weak oppose (1) formula weight is an outdated term, AFAIK relative molar mass is the correct one. (2) molar mass unit was rightly removed from mass (P2067) some time ago (now I saw it has been restored, which I just fixed, because different units should not be mixed in one property), (3) dalton (Q483261) is not a unit of molar mass and we don't have molar masses in our items right now, (4) whether we will have a relative molar mass without a unit or a molar mass with a unit – it has no practical significance as long as it is consistently observed within the property, (5) the most important problem, which has not been mentioned in any aspect, and which at this point prevents any use in any way of the masses of chemical entities that we already have – for each chemical entity, the mass can be calculated in many ways: as the mass taking into account the natural abundance, or the monoisotopic mass. The lack of appropriate qualifiers defining the method of calculation of the mass prevents the use of such mass and will prevent such use whether we create one new property or 10. Like the proposal regarding chemical formulae, this proposal is published too quickly and there was no prior discussion of the problem, e.g. in the WikiProject Chemistry. In my opinion, the discussion here will not enable us to develop an appropriate solution, and the proposal itself in its current form does not solve the most important problem that we currently have. Wostr (talk) 22:39, 28 August 2024 (UTC) Pinging user:Preimage as you participated in this discussion. Wostr (talk) 22:42, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Linking also Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Chemistry/Archive/2018#(Molar?)_mass_of_compounds. Wostr (talk) 22:42, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Medicine

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Medicine for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Medicine}}

Mineralogy

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Mineralogy for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Mineralogy}}

Computer science

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Informatics for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Informatics}}

Geology

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Geology for more information.

Geography

Linguistics

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Linguistics for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Linguistics}}

Mathematics

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Mathematics for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Mathematics}}

Lexikon der Mathematik entry ID

Under discussion

Description	identifier for an article in Lexikon der Mathematik on spektrum.de
Represents	Dictionary of mathematics (Q129781496)
Data type	External identifier
Domain	mathematical concept (Q24034552), human (Q5)
Example 1	axiom of choice (Q179692) → 390
Example 2	Collatz conjecture (Q837314) → 1712
Example 3	Latin square (Q679367) → 6774
Example 4	Albert Einstein (Q937) → 2607
External links	Use in sister projects: [ar] • [de] • [en] • [es] • [fr] • [he] • [it] • [ja] • [ko] • [nl] • [pl] • [pt] • [ru] • [sv] • [vi] • [zh] • [commons] • [species] • [wd] • [en.wikt] • [fr.wikt].
Mix'n'match	6422
Number of IDs in source	11796
Expected completeness	eventually complete (Q21873974)
Formatter URL	https://www.spektrum.de/lexikon/mathematik/-/$1
URL match pattern	`^https:\/\/rp.liu233w.com:443\/https\/www.spektrum.de\/lexikon\/mathematik\/[^/]+\/(\d+)`
See also	Encyclopedia of Mathematics article ID (P7554), MathWorld ID (P2812)
Single-value constraint	yes
Distinct-values constraint	yes
Wikidata project	WikiProject Mathematics (Q8487137)

Motivation

Also available in print. Has almost 12,000 entries, some of which belong to physics, computer science or economics. Over 100 uses on dewiki. Dexxor (talk) 14:52, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Notified participants of WikiProject Mathematics

Support except there seems to be a paywall? ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:32, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can access it for free by clicking on the yellow "Akzeptieren und weiter" button. The other button allows you to remove the ads by paying. Dexxor (talk) 08:21, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Material

Please visit Wikidata:WikiProject Materials for more information. To notify participants use {{Ping project|Materials}}

Wikidata:Property proposal/all

See also

General

‎has semantic role (2nd proposal)

Motivation

Discussion

‎objects of action have role (aliases: role of objects of action | undergoers have role | patients have role )

Motivation

Discussion

monument ID in the archive of Linz

Motivation

Discussion

‎CNES identifier

Motivation

Discussion

agent of action & agent class of action & agents of action have role

agent of action (aliases: agent | actor)

agent class of action (aliases: agent class | actor class | agent selectional preference | agent selectional restriction )

agents of action have role (aliases: role of agents of action | agents have role | actors have role )

Motivation

Discussion

Initialism

Motivation

Discussion

Encyclopedia

Library

Mapcarta ID

Motivation

Discussion

Law

Register

‎Finnish Company Number

Motivation

Discussion

Social networking service

Magazine

Authority file

‎NWIS site ID

Motivation

Discussion

‎Tretyakov Gallery artist ID

Motivation

Discussion

‎Yediot Books book ID

Motivation

Discussion

GameKombo video game ID

Motivation

Discussion

ConLang Code Registry code

Motivation

Discussion

cnkgraph person ID

Motivation

Discussion

cnkgraph poem ID

Motivation

Discussion

cnkgraph book ID

Motivation

Discussion

ACUM IDs

ACUM Performer ID

ACUM Creator/Publisher ID

ACUM Work ID

ACUM Album ID

Motivation

Discussion

‎Encyclopedia of Brno History literature ID

Motivation

Discussion

WikiYeshiva article ID

Motivation

Discussion

case id (mainland China)

Motivation

Discussion

‎The Indian Express Topic ID

Motivation

Discussion