Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liam Mulhall (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Missvain (talk) 02:41, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Liam Mulhall

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Relisting after Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Liam Mulhall was closed as "no consensus" and no real improvement has been made to the page.

Does not meet WP:RLN or WP:GNG as the subject has not played for a top-level rugby league club or represented his nation in a major tournament. The sources are mostly non-independent or merely mentions of him. There's a paywalled article that mentions him as a firefighter. The Everything Rugby League article is from a site that solicits article submissions so it doesn't qualify as an WP:RS.

As far as I can tell, the subject of the article is the only editor who's added any significant content, which isn't much. Ytoyoda (talk) 14:21, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Ytoyoda (talk) 14:21, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Wikipedia needs to start enforcing its policies against autobiographies.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:47, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - another really unhelpful comment, John, what does that actually mean? That Wikipedia policies only work when articles you don't like get deleted? Deus et lex (talk) 23:52, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. Ytoyoda (talk) 20:33, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This seems like a bit of an abuse of the AfD process when you relist so soon after the initial listing, along the lines of keep listing until you get your way. Seems like a case of WP:TOOSOON but I'd be prepared to keep given he's listed to coach the Delaware Black Foxes in the upcoming 2021 season and that's not far away. Deus et lex (talk) 23:52, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I don't know that he's going to be notable for being the coach of an American Rugby League club that gets little to no independent coverage. And I don't think it's an abuse of AFD considering the subject has had almost 2 months to improve the article since the other AfD and hasn't made any effort to improve the notability claim beyond adding the aforementioned article and removing article issue templates. Again, I don't think it's encouraging when no one other than the article subject is willing to contribute to the article. Ytoyoda (talk) 18:17, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The fact that the club has an article means that there is a valid alternative to deletion which you are required to consider before nominating for deletion. And you also need to remember that Wikipedia is a work in progress - there is no time pressure to improve an article before it is deleted. 2 months is not a great deal of time. The previous AfD made no suggestion of ways to improve the article. Deus et lex (talk) 23:50, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Doesn't meet GNG- its all just names on a list from team listings connected to the subject, passing mentions and there are no less than three forum posts?! out of ten references; barely any of the refs appear to be reliable sources to start with. The closest to in depth in an RS we get is the AFR ref from 2019 "Liam Mulhall, 38, a fireman who served with the RAAF, said he had been diagnosed with total and permanent disability injuries by six specialists, including two psychiatrists, and told by medical specialists he could not work or be retrained for another job. Mr Mulhall said: "It took me seven months to find out whether they will accept a claim. Even though I have six specialists they kept adding more clauses, more loopholes, more forms, more questions." Mr Mulhall's claim was approved this month because of injuries caused when he was a fireman." That's it. Curdle (talk) 14:26, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:32, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete he fails any relevant WP:SNG and has never been significantly covered by a non-independent source per WP:GNG. Non-notable league player, unfortunately. SportingFlyer T·C 16:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - what about the valid alternatives to deletion? You haven't shown that they are inappropriate. Deus et lex (talk) 12:23, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I have to show they're inappropriate when the article that was the suggested redirect was recently deleted? SportingFlyer T·C 11:57, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Absorb Add these details in the Delaware Black Foxes article, as that page appears to have had player RLN applied to a club, where this player and coach of this club would fail notability but the club itself would not be constrained by those rules.Fleets (talk) 08:09, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That AfD discussion didn't even mention RLN. SportingFlyer T·C 11:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it should not have been deleted.Fleets (talk) 12:00, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not agreeing with you. I'm saying that the other article was deleted for not having any reliable sources, and no reliable sources were available to add. It had nothing to do with the SNG. SportingFlyer T·C 13:18, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, google came up with 743k pages, I'm sure you just missed those by mistake.Fleets (talk) 13:59, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why I'm still engaging here, but not only did I get around 2,950 Google hits in my search for that article just now, but Google hits aren't what we use to determine notability. Removing the quotes brought up... a lot of articles about foxes, since the fox is the state animal of Delaware. SportingFlyer T·C 15:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To piggyback, those 2,950 are mostly match reports, social media links and stats, hits that do not establish notability. As far as I can tell, you're basically left with two very similar articles created after the Black Foxes article that appear to rely almost entirely on quotes from Mr. Mulhall and the club itself. Ytoyoda (talk) 14:20, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 20:50, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I don't see significant independent coverage of him that would meet WP:GNG. I also see nothing that would show he meets WP:ANYBIO. Being a former semi-pro rugby player and coach do not meet any notability criteria. Perhaps a redirect to the team page on WP would be reasonable, if it hadn't been previously deleted. Papaursa (talk) 22:10, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.