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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 05:32, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

George Galbraith

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George Galbraith (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Subject does not meet WP:NHOCKEY. The Danish league isn’t listed among the leagues for criteria #2 and #3 and he has no preeminent honours at college level to pass #4, plus he never played for Denmark in the top pool of the World Championship so fails #6. Tay87 (talk) 23:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

EDIT: Article has four references. Whether this is enough to pass WP:GNG I am not sure but if more can be found to pass GNG, I will withdraw the nomination. Tay87 (talk) 13:09, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Tay87 (talk) 23:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. Tay87 (talk) 23:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Denmark-related deletion discussions. Tay87 (talk) 23:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Tay87 (talk) 23:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. Tay87 (talk) 23:25, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And those are worthy of notability for most leagues, but like I mentioned, the Danish league isn't listed on WP:NHOCKEY's guidelines for #2 (at least 200 games) or #3 (preeminent honours). Therefore, there are only two realistic ways a Danish player can gain notability while playing in Denmark. The first is by playing in the top pool of the World Championship, which he did not. He played in the B pool but he had to play in the A pool to achieve notability. The second and most important reason is WP:GNG. If an article has enough substantial independent references then it passes notability regardless of NHOCKEY's criteria as GNG overides NHOCKEY. Currently, there are four references which I don't think is enough for it to pass GNG but if more can be found then that would help. Your points are very valid, but WikiProject Ice Hockey's strict and remotely limited guidelines say otherwise I'm afraid. Tay87 (talk) 19:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Point taken but someone who played for so long in a national league and on the national team and later coached and has reliable references in Danish and German (I can probably add more), would he not even compare to a NHL minor league player. And does not notability go beyond performance. If sufficient sources deemed him notable in Danish and German, should we discount those? Well you guys decide. I just had to comment since I saw there was a German entry and thought I would investigate further.Patapsco913 (talk) 20:07, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The statement that " only realistic way a Danish player can gain notability while playing in Denmark is by playing in the top pool of the World Championship" is incorrect. He can gain notability through meeting GNG, which is not addressed in the deletion rationale here. If there are multiple significant sources covering him (including in German or Danish) he would meet our notability guidelines. Rlendog (talk) 11:26, 13 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Rlendog: Very true and I apologise, I have ammended that comment.Tay87 (talk) 13:03, 14 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is a prima facie consensus to delete. However the question of sufficient coverage to pass WP:BASIC has been raised somewhat late in the discussion. I have decided to relist this discussion for a week in order to allow that to be explored. That said, if nothing substantial changes in the discussion I would expect that the page will be deleted next week.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ad Orientem (talk) 02:40, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is one of the things I find frustrating about Wikipedia's insistence on showing sources. Online, I can find another article in Faceoff.dk from 2015 [1], by the same journalist as the article about the hall of fame - so it does not count for "multiple independent sources". It does have a little more information, that Galbraith was about to make his World Cup debut in 1983 in Budapest, when the IIHF ruled him ineligible, although apparently it later turned out that they had made a mistake. It also quotes from an article published in the Danish newspaper B.T. after the 1982 Pondus Cup "If George is sovereign on Vojens' club team, he is even better under severe international pressure."
There is an article 'Trist dag for veteranen George Galbraith' in Berlingske, 2001 [2], which describes him as "a living legend in Danish ice hockey". He is named in the book Hockey: A Global History (University of Illinois Press, 2018) [3], but the relevant page is not available on Google Books. A news report on U.S. Hockey Report from 2006 [4], about Galbraith finding an American college for his son, says Galbraith was "a goaltender at Clarkson in the early to mid-70s, is a fixture on the Danish hockey scene, first playing and then coaching there." Newspapers.com has reports of games in US and Canadian newspapers in which Galbraith played for Clarkson, and some descriptions of his play, so that information could be added to this article.
But while I would assume from the fact that a 2001 article describes him as a "living legend", and others call him legendary, plus a short quote from a 1982 Danish newspaper, that there would have been coverage of him in Danish and German newspapers from the 1970s-1990s, I am not aware of digitised newspapers from those countries for that period, and so can't search for such sources. I would say that being Danish League Player of the Year for three consecutive years, and being inducted into the Danish Hockey Hall of Fame, gives a presumption that coverage exists and that he therefore meets WP:GNG or WP:BASIC. However, many WP editors vote based on what they can find online, or other editors can produce in the short time of the AfD. I would certainly !vote Keep, but I expect it will be deleted. RebeccaGreen (talk) 13:16, 18 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@RebeccaGreen: I'm actually prepared to withdraw the nomination. If there are more references out there he'll pass WP:GNG. One of the key things to note is this was created by Dolovis who created hundreds of non-notable hockey stubs in open-defiance towards NHOCKEY's guidelines, and I am practically working my way through knocking them off because it's frankly been long overdue and somebody has to do it eventually. Hence, I got round to this one and hence the nomination because he doesn't meet NHOCKEY. But like I said, if the refs are out there, he'll pass GNG. Tay87 (talk) 15:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I note your agreement "that there seems like a good possibility that coverage exists," and that passes WP:NPOSSIBLE of the GNG guideline. As stated by that guideline, "If it is likely that significant coverage in independent sources can be found for a topic, deletion due to lack of notability is inappropriate." Agreeing on the likelihood of extant sources, we should provide enough time for editors in Denmark to peruse physical archives of newspapers and magazines from the 70s and 80s. (For example, here's a 5th article [5] published now as "Retro."}. — CactusWriter (talk) 03:39, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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