Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive57
Gilabrand 2
[edit]Gilabrand (talk · contribs) blocked for a week. |
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Request concerning Gilabrand[edit]
Discussion concerning Gilabrand[edit]Statement by Gilabrand[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Gilabrand[edit]
Some parts of this comment are personal attacks.--Severino (talk)
Result concerning Gilabrand[edit]
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Meowy
[edit]Meowy (talk · contribs) blocked for one year. |
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Request concerning Meowy[edit]
Discussion concerning Meowy[edit]Statement by Meowy[edit]I am sorry about that - I did not realise I had previously removed that section within the last 7 days. I cannot now reverse the edit, since the section has been already restored. However, that section does cover a BLP issue [17] [18] that involved material being added to the article that had previously been removed from the Seyran Ohanyan article because it contained unverified extreme allegations about war crimes. So my edit was not some needless, flippant reverting. If administrators were as concientious about patrolling the BLP message boards and enforcing Wikipedia's general BLP policies as they were about enforcing decisions against individuals, that section would not have been there for me to want to remove. Meowy 18:03, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Meowy[edit]Meowy's edits are quite justified in the instances highlighted by Grandmaster above. There has been almost a concerted effort to label the current defense minister of Armenia, Seyran Ohanyan, as a war criminal on his article on Wikipedia, on the flimsy basis of an pseudo-investigation by an Azerbaijani parliamentary group. Thankfully, in early January, third party editors dissuaded editors from adding such information on a living person's page on Wikipedia (see here), without any reliable sources. It might be helpful to draw the administrators' attention to an astonishing event that occurred in early 2007 to the Turkish historian, Taner Akcam, who was detained by border police at Montreal Airport on the basis that someone had vandalised and added on his Wikipedia article that he was a terrorist! ([21]). The insinuation here is obvious yet subtle - mentioning Ohanyan and elements of the the 366th regiment as participants in an attack that killed several civilians, without any reliable source to point to, is clearly meant to besmirch his own reputation. Constantly adding such information is disingenuous and, who knows, it might even lead to a repeat of the Akcam fiasco. Meowy is correct here in removing information which can potentially be viewed as libel and, in this case, he is removing incendiary information that can lead to confusion in the real world. It's unfortunate to see to what extremes certain editors will go to block an editor who has otherwise contributed and greatly enriched the articles found here. --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 17:45, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that the content disputes can be a justification for repeated and deliberate removal of a large section from the article, considering that there was no consensus for its removal and that even uninvolved third party editors watching the article told the editors to reach consensus before making significant changes. Yet Meowy chose to edit war, despite his numerous prior blocks for the same violation. As for the content removed by Meowy, the information provided by MarshallBagramyan is not accurate. There are sources that mention the role of the 366th regiment in the massacre, and participation of this unit in the attack on the town is not disputed by anyone. And no, nowhere does the article say that Ohanyan took part in the massacre, it only mentions a well known and undisputed fact that after the regiment was withdrawn from the region some of its personel, including Ohanyan, stayed. That is nowhere near a BLP issue. And I cannot see any possible justification for removal of comments by other users, and extremely incivil edit summaries that accompanied that removal. Grandmaster 20:19, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Meowy[edit]
This is a content dispute. There are evidently sources that look like they might be reliable. This needs to be discussed and decided using normal dispute resolution. Revert warring is not allowed, especially by an editor previously placed on 1RR. The same editor, Meowy, was last time blocked for a month, and caught socking during the block. Meowy has a very long block log. It seems like it is now time for lengthy block. Jehochman Talk 12:59, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
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PCPP
[edit]PCPP (talk · contribs) warned, no further action. |
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Request concerning PCPP[edit]
In presenting this, I hope to bring to the attention of arbcom the continual disruption and removal of content by User:PCPP on Falun Gong and closely related pages. This behavior of the user extends to all articles carrying material critical of the Chinese Communist Party. The user's editing pattern involves: 1. Repetitive blanking of vast amounts of sourced and centrally relevant material, with no discussion on talk, and often under edit summaries like “rv pov material.” 2. Distortion of sourced content and the addition of personal commentary, which he misattributes to sources already present in the article. 3. And, when under close scrutiny, the watering down of critical sources, with unsubstantiated claims to the effect that they are the content is “pov”, is undue, etc. Even a superficial analysis can reveal his scouring of articles pertinent to the CCP’s human rights violations, from which he removes critical material, while simultaneously piling accusations against those attempting to contribute to those articles. What I present below is but a sample of such behavior, all from within the past few months, by the user. 1. Article:6-10 Office Nature of disruption:Repetitive blanking of sourced and centrally relevant material with no discussion presented.Concerns raised are ignored by the user. The below content, drawing upon one of the few sources available on the topic, has been blanked 6 times by the user since its inception into the article.
The diffs:[23] [24][25][26][27][28]. Concerns raised regarding this behavior, on the talk page[29][30] is met with no response from PCPP, other than repeated blanking. Together with the blanking, supported by neither discussion nor edit summary, the user distorts the lead of the article. The statement sourced to Congressional Executive Report on China, 2008: “This entity was charged with the mission of overseeing and carrying out the persecution of Falun Gong, which commenced on July 22, 1999.”, is distorted by the user to “It is responsible for monitoring, studying and analyzing matters relating to Falun Gong, and recommending policy measures for against Falun Gong, and also what the government calls "heretical cults" and "harmful qigong organisations"; and for promptly notifying municipal party committees of trends and developments within "cults".”[31]. The commentary added by the user is mis-attributed and not supported by any source.
Nature of disruption: Blanking of 12 paragraphs of sourced, centrally relevant material, with no discussion. Shortly following the expansion and addition of sources to Propaganda in the People's Republic of China, PCPP blanks almost all the content added. He offers no explanation for this act. And his edit summary runs “rv POV material.”
Nature of disruption: Blanking The above was preceded by a similar blanking of content here. Before this, an editor who has continually supported, worked with, and encouraged PCPP, blanks a portion of the content added to the article[32] with an argument to the effect that its good enough for the article to remain a “catalogue.”
Nature of disruption: Whole-scale blanking In the same article, the user, despite attempts to engage him in discussion, continues to blank a quarter of the article - 10K of content. He attacks the sources themselves, alleging their origin in US makes them anti-China and hence not RS. Kindly review the comments regarding this on talk:[33]. The blanking takes place in these edits: [34]
Nature of Disruption: Blanking. Three paragraphs deleted with no explanation offered.[35].
Blanks almost the same content as above , this time labeling the sources “questionable” in the edit summary – no supporting discussion on talk. [36]. Concerns raised regarding this can be seen on talk of the article:[37]
Nature of Disruption: Blanking of material under a misleading edit summary Content removed in edits with misleading edit summaries: [38]
Nature of Disruption: Repetitive addition of unsourced material and blanking of sourced content. Adds several paragraphs of unsourced content [39]. And here he reverts ( with misleading edit summaries) contributions by other editors removing well sourced and centrally relevant content[40] ( he offers no explanation for his blanking). The issue was raised here on the talk of the article: [41]
'Nature of disruption: Removes an entire section. Edit summary makes no mention of it and no discussion on talk. [42]
Comparatively minor disruptions such as repetitive changing of “Persection of Falun Gong” ( term used by academic sources, HRW, UN, Amnesty, US Congress reports, etc) to “Banning of Falun Gong”[43] [44][45]. Attempts to get the user to present a rationale for his insistence on using the word “ban” can be seen here: [46]
Blanks a para while falsely claiming in his edit summary that the content he blanked is a “misattribution”:[47]
The editor routinely attacks sources which do not align with his POV. Here, as a justification of his blanking of content from that source, the user attacks a Freedom House article by China expert Kurlantzick with claims that : "a) is not a suitable academic source as most of its material relies on original research b) is from an organization funded by the US government, and the countries reported happened to be political opponents of the US c) used as such that claims made by the report is presented as factual evidence in disproportionate amounts"[48] and here he attacks a Reporters Sans Frontiers source on 'grounds' that: " A bunch of rhetorics froma CIA funded organization can hardly meet WP:RS"[49]. The user continues to blank the Freedom House material despite RS discussion[50]. The user also continually engages in personal attack on those attempting to contribute to the article. -- The above are just a few instances illustrative of the kind of the disruption the user engages in. The arguments the user presents on talk are often of a disruptive nature as well, and often invovles personal attacks on those contributing to the article. PCPP also repeatedly changes the words from sources to weaken or distort the claims they make, the case often being the latter - distortion of the perspective of the source. These edits he labels: "clarifying", "per WP:NPOV", etc.[51],[52],[53]. In all these cases, the sources said those precise words as were in the article. He provides no other explanation for the changes he makes to them. PCPP also rarely, if ever, adds any research to the articles. He focuses is often on pulling apart these articles and simultaneously discrediting the contributions of others. This behaviour of his has gone on for a long time and above are but recent instances. I request admins to kindly review PCPP's contribution history. In it is apparent a clear pattern of removal of material critical of the CCP from articles through out wikipedia. In addition, I would also like to draw attention to a systematic blanking of critical content and images on articles related to the CPP and its human rights violations which, I notice, has been happening on articles throughout wikipedia. Academic and news sources state that the Chinese Communist Party employs an army, hundreds of thousands strong, targeting Web 2.0 technologies such as Wikipedia, Twitter and youtube[54]. My intent is not to imply that editors involved in such removal of material are all directly related to the CCP, but, to point out that the presence of research and reports, which uncover such activism by CCP’s propaganda departments, makes the issue deserving of further attention of the Wikipedia Community. I humbly request a careful analysis of the issue be done, before any judgment is made on the merits of this concern I raise, and if evidence is found of such activity, the necessary steps be taken to counter it. A lot of evidence exists in Falun Gong related pages themselves. For instance, the Persecution of Falun Gong article has had almost all information regarding the persecution( sourced to Amnesty, HRW, UN CAT, Congressional Executive Reports, academic sources, etc.) , blanked from it. Blanking has been done to the point that in the lead of the article itself, it is made to seem as if this major international crisis is but a mere claim made by practitioners. I point out the issue here on talk[55] In the past, these articles have witnessed attack from self-declared propagandists such as User:Bobby_fletcher. Identified by David Kilgour, and David Matas, and articles such as the ones here: [56][ http://www.westernstandard.ca/website/article.php?id=2436], as a major online activist for the CCP, “Bobbly Fletcher” engaged in presenting CCP propaganda on talk, de-tracking discussions, removal of content from the articles, etc. His presence on Wikipedia, and his disruptive activities were continually encouraged and supported by User:PCPP, who himself, as evidence above clearly demonstrates, has blanked vast amounts of info critical of the CCP from these articles.
Discussion concerning PCPP[edit]Statement by PCPP[edit]I really don't see how the FLG sanctions can apply to any CCP-related article, as Dilip claimed. Dilip's personal attacks again Bobby Fletcher and rant about the PRC's "web spies" demonstrates exactly why I have difficulties working with him. 1) I in fact shortened the paragraph to:
I summarized the statement into proper English, which is perfectly acceptable within editing guidelines. When Dilip doesn't agree with with such changes, he reverts the entire article, along with everything else that goes along with it. 2-5) Dilip himself added a large amount of questionable statements from a single unverified source from a political website [62], and completely destroyed the POV balance of the article. The only source I ended up removing was his; which is neither peer-reviewed or have any results on google scholar per WP:RS. I've rearranged most of the article in a more readable fasion, and restored and attributed several others. 5-6) That was a content dispute between me and another editor. I've since discussed with the editor, [63] who agreed that my edits has merits. 7) All I did was shuffle a couple of paragraphs around and removed one sentence that is not relevent to the article topic. I only edited that article once, and was immediatle reverted by asdfg in its entirity. [64] 8) Asdfg removed a large amount of material regarding Maoism, including the template and two web sources[65]. I restored the sources and properly attributed them. 9) And ignore the fact that I added a large amount of info regarding the thought reform movement. The source I removed was from 1969 and no longer up to date, and contradicted by the info I added. I even searched google scholar for asdfg's claims, and found nothing as it claimed. 10) The terminology itself was highly disputed, the sources themselves didn't even come to an conclusion, and an AFD on the terminology didn't even come to a clear concensus [66]. I referred to the Chinese's government's official label of the campaign per WP:NAME 11) The source is disputed on talk page [67] and reached the concensus that it is misattributed. 12) I am within my right to question such sources per WP:RS, and within my right to remove sources that lacks peer review or citation and is used to push a single POV. I find the current situation utterly ridiculous. No matter what I add, the FLG camp always find minor excuses over a couple of paragraphs or labels, and revert my edits entirely because of it. Dilip himself has a habit of disappearing for months, completely ignore the changes and concensus that has since ocurred, and revert back to his preferred version with little discussion. It's even more ludicrous that I have to document every change to single-purpose accounts that are used to promot Falun Gong.--PCPP (talk) 07:48, 12 March 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning PCPP[edit]Comment by Asdfg12345[edit]PCPP focuses on picking apart the contributions of others, and watering down the parts that aren't too friendly to the Chinese Communist Party. His behaviour is consistently destructive, and it, along with the explicit and implicit support he receives for it, has seriously eroded my will to contribute to this project (among other things.) Recently he has refined his methods, too. Instead of outright blanking, he just blanks some parts and weakens others; instead of saying nothing, he says a few perfunctory words and discredits the other editors intentions; instead of doing zero research, he does a bit. He is a drag on contributing, and exerts a net negative influence. He only destroys the value of others' contributions, rather than bringing his own ideas and sources to the table and working together for how to incorporate the different viewpoints. He only says the viewpoint of this or that scholar (it would seem, actually, every scholar who has documented the crimes of the CCP) is POV and tries to delete it or weaken it, without any regard for NPOV, which calls for all significant views to be represented. He has recently deleted swathes of material from several articles, then writes misleading edit summaries and notes on the talk page. What's even more bizarre is how the editors calling for my downfall don't care when he does this stuff. It's a bit farcical. I have left maybe a dozen notes to PCPP saying how I would like to work with him, asking him to explain himself, asking him to bring sources to the table that support the POV he wants to see introduced. But he doesn't play ball and just rebukes it all, going right ahead with the deletions and whatnot. It's a very effective technique, to be honest. At the very least, it's dampened my usually boundless enthusiasm--at least enough to take a break from all this for a while. I'll be back, but hopefully he won't be around. (Note: if he changed his approach and started doing research, and discussed his changes nicely, I would love to work with him. He has robust opinions on these subjects that, if sources can be found to support them, need to be represented and explained. But his focus on destroying my work really gets to me. I asked him to just paste onto the talk page stuff he deletes from now on. Maybe that will help. Though his deletions of any mention of the word "indoctrination" or "struggle session" goes on.) --Asdfg12345 05:20, 10 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by PhilKnight[edit]The only relevant evidence is that which relates to the Falun Gong. The rest could be relevant to the user conduct Request for Comment, but shouldn't be listed here. PhilKnight (talk) 16:48, 10 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by Epeefleche[edit]The nom raises some points here that deserve close examination (which I've not had time for at the moment), and if which accurate should likely be addressed in some manner, though I agree with Phil that the only relevant information is that which relates to the Falun Gong, which does not appear to be the focus of many of the above diffs.--Epeefleche (talk) 07:12, 11 March 2010 (UTC) Result concerning PCPP[edit]
Am moving the case to ANI. A wide range of articles are involved, and this behavior of the user has continued for years. The above user has not contributed anything to these pages in terms of research, and, at the same time, baselessly attacks other editors to deviate attention and cover up his disruption of these pages. Dilip rajeev (talk) 05:09, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
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Dilip rajeev
[edit]Further action deferred pending the outcome of moderated discussion. | |||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | |||
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Dilip rajeev[edit]User requesting enforcement: User against whom enforcement is requested: Sanction or remedy that this user violated:
Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it: I really don't have the patience for this any longer; I have already given up editing Falun Gong articles. Nevertheless, I would re-open this previously filed request hoping that something be done about that user's persistent Falun Gong advocacy, NPOV editing and aggressive edit-warring. This is particularly important because the disruption has now spilled over onto, and threatens to poison the editing ambiance at, all articles which touch upon the Communist Party of China or the governance of the People's Republic of China - the central goal of the Falun Gong movement is contributing to the downfall of the CPC. This renewed request is updated with the latest evidence of highly disruptive behaviour by Dilip rajeev (talk · contribs), who has been editing almost exclusively Falun Gong articles, or those which touch upon Falun Gong - namely Propaganda on the People's Republic of China - since February 2006. In fact, my previous AE request was against him failed; the closing admin commented:
In my experience, rajeev has shown great animosity when non-FG devotees edit Falun Gong article. There has been a long history of unchecked edit warring, even over the placement of {{NPOV}} tags. Such tags are routinely removed (as here) with not so much as a 'how do you do', as if the contents suddenly become neutral when the tag disappears. Reverts are usually very provocatively done - blind and wholescale, often destroying many intervening edits which have accurate and well-reasoned edit summaries - and any ensuing discussion makes clear that the user is always 'right' and anyone who opposes him 'wrong'. Anything which is sourced from sources he approves of have a right to stay and any sources he disapproves of are "CCP propaganda" or somesuch. Dilip rajeev's tendency to introduce ironic quotes (like here) and weasel words are already mentioned above. Not only is he completely and blindly partisan, Dilip rajeev often expresses points of view which are unique; his style and content introduced have been frowned upon from time to time by most others, and also by asdfg. Dilip rajeev's stated view that nothing from the Chinese authorities is worthy of citing because it is unreliable propaganda demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of what is WP:NPOV. He is known to endlessly pontificate on moral questions, and lawyer around citing paragraphs of WP:RS and WP:NPOV to support whatever position he favours in regards to a certain link or source. He maintains a website which he uses as Falun Gong advocacy. It seems that he passionately believes the persecution of Falun gong practitioners at the hands of the Chinese authorities, and is unable to put these views to one side when he is editing; and when he edits, it is with such great fervour and aggression that leaves little or no place for others who wish to contribute. Dilip rajeev (talk · contribs) has a habit of disappearing (i.e. not editing in article space or talk space) for weeks or months on end. When he returns, he frequently reverts to the last version he feels comfortable with irrespective of the individual merits of each of the changes because the changes which took place were not to his liking. In view of his return and his manifestly unrepentant behaviour, I would reopen the case, seeking an indefinite site ban. Such reverts are usually done without due reference to the discussions which have taken place during his absence. Today, he hypocritically initiated an AE case against same (see above).
Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction): I believe that, in view of his continued disruption and the total lack of any mitigating collaborative successes, an indefinite ban from Wikipedia would now be in order.
Discussion concerning Dilip rajeev[edit]Statement by Dilip rajeev[edit]I have done few edits after the same user filed a similar case against me in which I was found innocent. I wont say much here except that I have not edit warred on any of these pages. I am given all kinds of labels from "vandal" to "sockpuppet" by these users attacking me. I merely request that I may please be judged by my contributions, by the diffs, by the content I have contributed to wikpedia - not by claims, not substantiated by any evidence, from those who seek to impose these labels on me. What he presents as "Evidence of edit warring" is PCPP's whole-scale blanking of content which happened between my contributions. And there are no multiple reverts from my side. I was among the first to draw editors attention, and collect sources to improve that article which was almost completely ignored[68]. Based on painstaking research, I made significant contributions to the article which, back then, carried almost no sourced content: [69] The original state of the article was: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Propaganda_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China&oldid=327853510 After my contributions: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Propaganda_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China&oldid=346242792 ( The above is the only set of major edits I have done since the same user filed a AE against me in which I was found innocent ) The above contributions were labelled "vandalism" and "NPOV editing" by PCPP and his supporter OhConfucious. One of the first paragraphs of sourced content added to the article was blanked by Ohconfucius with a personal attack on me, the editor who contributed the content. His sole explanation for blanking ran: "rv Dilip rajeev - there is nothing wrong with it[the article] being a catalogue; just don't bring your Falun Gong agenda here". The material he blanks and attacks me for adding can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Propaganda_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China&action=historysubmit&diff=342416447&oldid=342311517 PCPP barged in and blanked all the content I added, and with no explanation. So obviously that edit ( for which he gave no explanation) was reverted me ( no multiple reverts -a single revert, and asking for an explanation from him). OhConfucius attempts to present this the other way round. I hope admins will take a careful look and see through the smoke created by these fake allegations. Since a similar case filed by Ohconfucius, in which I was not found guilty, the above is the only major set of edits I have done. Regarding the intro I added, a full explanation can be seen here.[70] I did not do multiple reverts when the material I considered a superset of the current info in the article was removed - but strove to explain my additions section by section. I absolutely did not engage in any repetitive reverts or edit warring. A full explanation of the intro can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Persecution_of_Falun_Gong#Regarding_the_intro And "Inactive user account" was not "blocked". The user is repeating this allegation against me despite several clarifications I have made before. It was an alternate account I used to contribute to that article ( and all my contribution there were all based on the best available sources such as BBC, The Times, Guardian, DTV, Bayerstein, etc. And I had made significant contributions in terms of content there. I may please be observed that the sole reason I was attacked was that my contributions conflicted with the POV of certain users). The account was and renamed under the suggestion of an admin, to protect my privacy( it being a very sensitive topic in certain regions in India) when it was compromised. Also, I have not been active on the article for several months now. These are non-existent issues that the user frequently rakes up to attack me. On the 6-10 Office article, I have absolutely not engaged in any edit-warring. I had raised legitimate concerns regarding PCPP's repetitive blanking of material sourced to Congressional Executive Reports, and distortion of sourced content in the lead. It is the very same issue I present in the AE case against PCPP above that Ohconfucius distorts to make it seems as if I am blanking PCPP: 1. Article:6-10 Office Nature of disruption:Repetitive blanking of sourced and centrally relevant material with no discussion presented.Concerns raised are ignored by the user. The below content, drawing upon one of the few sources available on the topic, has been blanked 6 times by the user since its inception into the article.
The diffs:[71] [72][73][74][75][76]. Concerns raised regarding this behavior, on the talk page[77][78] is met with no response from PCPP, other than repeated blanking. Together with the blanking, supported by neither discussion nor edit summary, the user distorts the lead of the article. The statement sourced to Congressional Executive Report on China, 2008: “This entity was charged with the mission of overseeing and carrying out the persecution of Falun Gong, which commenced on July 22, 1999.”, is distorted by the user to “It is responsible for monitoring, studying and analyzing matters relating to Falun Gong, and recommending policy measures for against Falun Gong, and also what the government calls "heretical cults" and "harmful qigong organisations"; and for promptly notifying municipal party committees of trends and developments within "cults".”[79]. The commentary added by the user is mis-attributed and not supported by any source. Further, I would like to humbly request that if the charges made against me are seen to be baseless, appropriate disciplinary action be taken against these users who've been hounding me around wikipedia and making contributing to these pages almost impossible. This case shortly follows my presenting a detailed case, with plenty evidence, against PCPP. In my experience, such attacks serve as a mechanism for attention-diversion. Making it seem as if it is a mere to-and-fro exchange of accusations. Hence, I request admins to take a deep, solid look at the evidence I present above. In summary, I would like to point out:
Dilip rajeev (talk) 10:27, 10 March 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Dilip rajeev[edit]Comment by Epeefleche[edit]Obviously, this is outrageous behavior. Just the sort that eats up valuable constructive editor time, without good reason, and poisons the project. I fully support the nomination, and urge that action be taken.--Epeefleche (talk) 06:00, 10 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by Asdfg12345[edit]Whether Dilip has recently engaged in edit warring should be able to be easily verified. I have looked at the pages in question and it seems obvious to me that he has not. Check the recent shamozzle at the persecution page, for example. He only did one revert to an old version, then rewrote the lead. That was reverted then the page was locked. Two changes, not one a revert. So, that's not edit warring. If you look at the talk page, it's clear he's also trying to engage in discussion. Similarly for the 610 Office, page. Just look at the history. That's like, two reverts/edits over a couple of days? And what was the substance of those changes? Adding back in a few paragraphs of sourced material and deleting some unsourced material. And it was all discussed on the talk page, but PCPP did not join in. This is typical. The same thing can be found at Mass line. At the 610 office article, another outside editor has now come in to revert PCPP. Same again for the propaganda in the PRC page. Check the history and it becomes clear who is being destructive. I don't think Dilip has done a single revert on that page at all. Meanwhile, PCPP has deleted 10kb from the page calling it "POV"! It's a wonder that Ohconfucius does not spread his righteous indignation around a bit more. Overall, this seems to be an issue of editing dynamics and attitudes. It won't work to single one person out, and banning individuals when the evidence against them is summed up seems boneheaded, too. A recent, very clear illustration of how this is about attitudes is to be found on the Falun Gong talk page. Olaf Stephanos made some suggestions, and Mrund sought to dismiss and marginalise Olaf. A non-partisan editor went ahead with a few of the changes, which were not outrageous at all. In fact, they were just questions. So the whole atmosphere is really, really hostile. For the record, I disagree with Dilip, and other editors, on any number of content issues. But I don't think people should be banned unless it's clear they're exhibiting bad faith and behaving destructively. I don't think either of those is the case for Dilip. There does not appear to be recent evidence (say, since mid-Feb) that Dilip has editwarred on any of the pages he has edited. Further, the nature of his edits is to add information and research. No claims have been made that Dilip has added information outside its prominence in reliable sources (i.e., actually violating WP:UNDUE), simply that he added information critical of the CCP. PCPP, on the other hand, has repeatedly edit warred to push his POV, and rather than adding any research, he just destroys the research of others. But anyway, I'm sorry to say it, but these cases seem to be as much about politics and image as they are about evidence. If Ohconfucius et al can make it look like they are a group of editors neutral on this subject, and Dilip is the pariah who relentlessly pushes his POV, then they win. That's what happened the last several times. --Asdfg12345 06:13, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Mrund[edit]I am convinced that an indefinite site ban would be the most productive way to deal with Dilip rajeev. Dilip is a vandal and a propagandist SPA. He adds little or nothing of independent value, and he eats up enormous amounts of other contributors' wikilabour that could be put to much better use for the project. Martin Rundkvist (talk) 08:13, 10 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by HappyInGeneral[edit]This is funny, check the number of edits Ohconfucius did to the article, then let's see who is owning it. Also the fact that the tone you use against any editor that you perceive pro-Falun Gong, is almost always hostile, is extremely telling. As far as I can tell you care only about your own truth and you are quite far as long as objectivity goes and well balanced WP:RS goes. Anyway, who cares, I'll stop here as I don't have time to get into this anymore. --HappyInGeneral (talk) 09:27, 10 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by Enric Naval[edit]Every few weeks Dilip reverts back to an older version, and he demands that other editors justify why his edits are wrong. That's placing WP:BRD completely upside-down, and he has done it so many times that he no longer has the excuse that he didn't know how to discuss in wikipedia. This is worsened by the pro-FG editors who revert back to Dilip's version and make the same demands. That is absolutely discouraging for the rest of editors. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:11, 10 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by Seb az86556[edit]Those who want the situation in the proverbial nutshell, read Enric's statement above; fully endorse it. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 15:44, 10 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by Colipon[edit]Wikipedia administration: please settle this matter once and for all. The four aforementioned users have been using these Falun Gong articles as a battleground for years on end and apparently no one here gives enough of a damn to ban them all from the site. The evidence has been crystal clear and given no short of 20 times by various users and on various wikipedia dispute resolution venues. Scour through their contributions and it is immediately clear that their mission here is not to create an encyclopedia but to advocate for a cause - and be destructive while doing it. I was once 'an outsider' to the Falun Gong articles. I hate the subject, I hate editing it, and I hate arguing about it. I now regret clicking that edit button when I saw the article was basically being used as a piece of Falun Gong promotional material. Falun Gong has been, without doubt, the worst experience I have ever had on this encyclopedia. At numerous points I have contemplated quitting Wikipedia altogether because of these articles on Falun Gong. They not only highlight the ineffectiveness of dispute resolution, but severely undermines the integrity and credibility of Wikipedia. Scientology has already set a precedent that this encyclopedia should have a zero-tolerance policy on new religious movements trying to paint themselves favorably, and Falun Gong articles are not any different. Anyone who edits Falun Gong to push for a point of view, and edits exclusively Falun Gong should be banned from the site for good - not some 6-month topic ban with the naive assumption that somehow this behavior would 'change' at the expiration of the ban. As we've seen, and as OhConfucius has pointed out - these SPA's editing now stretches to the 'second stage' of Falun Gong advocacy; i.e. when they are banned from Falun Gong, they edit against anything to do with the Communist Party of China. These are not edits in good faith and all of these edits should be stopped by imposing an indefinite site ban akin to those on Scientology. This is within the spirit of the arbcom decision and in line with Wikipedia's general principles. Administrators, this cannot go on. Do something about it. Colipon+(Talk) 15:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Jayen466[edit]I will try to comment in more detail later on, when I have more time, but will say now that DR's edits have often been extreme and have consistently caused me concern, both in the Falun Gong and the Sai Baba topic areas. I would certainly support a topic ban restricting him to talk pages at this time. I'd have to look at his recent contributions in more detail before I could say whether a site ban is appropriate. --JN466 00:14, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
This is a highly contested topic area, and it is to be expected that editors with very diverse viewpoints participate. There are definite POV problems with editors on the other side of the debate too, trying to minimise the appalling persecution Falun Gong practitioners have suffered in China for the past decade, or wishing to deny that there is any persecution at all. However, Dilip Rajeev has not struck me as an editor who has been particularly good at, or interested in, working with opposing editors to build talk page consensus. --JN466 11:23, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Edward130603[edit]Dilip rajeev has unceasingly been a ultrapro-Falun Gong SPA. He leaves for periods of times and then comes back for a bunch of reverts. I suggest that dilip be banned indefinitely from all Falun Gong related topics.--Edward130603 (talk) 02:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by PCPP[edit]Dilip is the type of editor that takes WP:AGF for granted and attempts to turn wikipedia into a promotional vehicle for Falun Gong. A glance through his editing history showed that he almost exclusively edits Falun Gong related articles since 2006, and has a habit of disappearing disappear for months, resurface, revert to an earlier version and disregard to all that has came between. His recent editing patterns are a continuation of his old habits on the Tiananmen Square self-immolation, Organ harvesting and Sai Baba articles. Discussions with this user is often fruitless, as he claims ownership of the articles, and restores sources he likes irrespective of established consensus, while sources from the PRC government and others he doesn't like are routinely dismissed as "CCP propaganda" [84] [85] [86]. Dilip has previously received 5 blocks and countless warnings [87][88][89][90][91][92][93][94][95]on 3RR violations, disruptive editing, and edit warring previously on Falun Gong articles [96], previously operated two blocked socks [97] responsible for edit warring on Sathya Sai Baba [98]. He was also warned on inserting POV material on the Sai Baba articles [99] in disregard of arbcom sanctions. After his many violations of wikipedia guidelines, it's really time to draw the line. Samuel Luo and Tomananda, dedicated anti-FLG activists, were indefinitely blocked because of similar revert behavior, while FLG editors Olaf, Happyingeneral and asdfg were given lengthy article bans for their activism. I fail to understand why Dilip, who's editing behavior is more severe than all other combined, is kept given second and third chances because of his habit to disappear.--PCPP (talk) 08:03, 12 March 2010 (UTC) Request for a moment's pause by SilkTork[edit]There is a dialogue taking place on Jayen466's talkpage and a reasonable suggestion by Jayen that a moderated discussion take place. If Dilip_rajeev's concerns are legitimate they deserve to be closely examined. Sometimes people do not handle themselves as well as they might, and may well be disruptive; but that does not mean their concerns are not legitimate. I'd be more comfortable if we spent a little while fully investigating Dilip_rajeev's concerns in a non-threatening and impartial manner. If only one of Dilip_rajeev's concerns turn out to have some basis in fact, that will strengthen the article, and if they don't, and Dilip_rajeev has been through a fair and impartial review of his concerns, I feel that Dilip_rajeev will voluntarily withdraw from disruptive editing, so there will be no need for a "topic ban" that can be too easily subverted anyway. I am aware that moderated discussions do not always work; however, I am motivated by some of the comments that Dilip_rajeev has made on Jayen466's talkpage to feel that Dilip_rajeev will engage intelligently and honestly in a moderated discussion. Of course, having made this request, I feel I must offer myself as moderator. I suggest that if the discussion breaks down, that Dilip_rajeev is returned here, and the topic ban in enforced. SilkTork *YES! 12:03, 14 March 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Dilip rajeev[edit]The sanction referred to has been rescinded. Therefore this report is not actionable. Stifle (talk) 11:02, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Without further ado, I have opened a case at ANI. Nevertheless, if anything can be done here, I would ask that it be considered. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 13:27, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
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Addendum: Moderated discussion closed. Dilip rajeev's concerns have been addressed, and his editing approach has modified to comply with Wikipedia standards. SilkTork *YES! 11:42, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Cs32en
[edit]Appears to be mainly a content dispute; no action. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Cs32en[edit]
Discussion concerning Cs32en[edit]Statement by Cs32en[edit]All of the edits that Turian (talk · contribs) enumerates are based on Wikipedia policies.
I hope that I have clarified the issues that Turian (talk · contribs) has raised, and I suggest to dismiss this request. (I'll be away for about 24 hours.) Cs32en Talk to me 21:25, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
As Turian (talk · contribs) is claiming that my editing on Wikipedia is about pushing conspiracies, I'd like to provide my edits at September 11 attacks during the last few months (the edits mentioned by Turian above, i.e. #1, #5, #6, and #7, are not included):
In early January, I have created the article Camp Chapman attack, which appeared on Did you know? on January 10. As I have written almost all of the content of this article, it may be a useful example to assess my editing. Cs32en Talk to me 16:34, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Cs32en[edit]Comment by Mbz1[edit]I find the differences that were presented to be of a big concern, and believe Cs32en should be topic banned in accordance with the request.--Mbz1 (talk) 21:54, 8 March 2010 (UTC) Comment by Sandstein[edit]Could the requesting editor please annotate the request so as to explain how, specifically, each of the diffs provided violates "the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process" (WP:ARB911#Discretionary sanctions)? Sandstein 20:01, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Rklawton[edit]Cs32en edits 9/11 as if his and only his view is correct. He removed a well researched, well considered, well sourced commentary published in a reliable source on the grounds that the author was a neo-conservative and immediately launched into an edit war to defend his actions. As far as I know, both liberals and conservatives believe 9/11 conspiracy theorists are whack-jobs. But Cs32en insisted the author was pushing a political agenda. The only agenda I saw in her article was one against conspiracy theorists - the very point of the section in which the source had been included. The bottom line is, unless we want to hand the article over to this one editor, he needs to be topic banned. Rklawton (talk) 03:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Wildbear[edit]The preceding reads like a content dispute, rather than a pattern of abuse calling for arbitration enforcement. Approaching a polarized topic from a particular angle does not in itself constitute abuse; it is how one behaves while editing and discussing. If Cs32en had been engaging in edit warring, or unreasonable behavior on the talk page, then action might be warranted; but it doesn't look to me like that is occurring. Wildbear (talk) 04:57, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by ClovisPt[edit]After reading/re-reading the edits provided above as examples of Cs32en's supposedly problematic editing style, I don't see a clear attempt to push an agenda. Several of these edits are judgment calls about the relative notability of various items in the September 11 attacks article, which is always difficult when one is dealing with the main page of a complicated subject that spans many items. I especially don't see evidence of conspiracy pushing here. Regards, ClovisPt (talk) 20:55, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Cs32en[edit]
The submitter has unarchived this section because it was not closed. Unless other admins disagree, I intend to close it without action. The edits at issue are not obviously problematic, at least not to an extent that would merit sanctions. Whether or not they violate WP:NPOV or WP:FRINGE is principally an editorial matter that needs to be resolved through editorial channels. Like the main arbitration process, arbitration enforcement is not for mediating content disagreements, and this request appears to be mainly a content rather than a conduct issue. If a user were to engage in aggressive fringe POV-pushing over extended periods of time in this area, AE sanctions would be warranted, but the diffs submitted in this request do not convince me that this is the case here. Sandstein 09:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
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Not looking for a full case or anything, but this seems to be heating up again, and if some Arbs could peek in on it from time to time that would be great. (because we all know how much free time you guys have...) Beeblebrox (talk) 20:01, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
- Specifically Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:03, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
- Hi, Beeblebrox. This board is not normally frequented by arbitrators, but by admins who do arbitration enforcement, such as I. Your request is a bit short on details - if you would like enforcement action taken against specific editors, I recommend the use of the form {{Arbitration enforcement request}}. Sandstein 20:17, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry, I'm (deliberately) not really up to speed on the ins and outs of arbcom. There's a notice on the article's talk page that says "After a suitable grace period, the state of the article may be evaluated on the motion of any member of the Arbitration Committee and further remedies applied to those editors who continue to edit in an inappropriate manner. Any user may request review by members of the Arbitration Committee." So I guess that's what I'm looking for, I don't have any specific user or users in mind just looking for that re-evaluation. Should I email them or something? Beeblebrox (talk) 22:00, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
- In that case, I think the page you could use is either Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment or the talk pages of individual arbitrators. An e-mail (WP:AC#Mailing lists) should also work. In any such request, I recommend that you provide a brief description of what the current problem is, some relevant diffs, and a recommendation about what should be done. That is likely to result in faster action than if arbitrators have to dig through histories just to find out whether there is a problem in the first place. Sandstein 22:12, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry, I'm (deliberately) not really up to speed on the ins and outs of arbcom. There's a notice on the article's talk page that says "After a suitable grace period, the state of the article may be evaluated on the motion of any member of the Arbitration Committee and further remedies applied to those editors who continue to edit in an inappropriate manner. Any user may request review by members of the Arbitration Committee." So I guess that's what I'm looking for, I don't have any specific user or users in mind just looking for that re-evaluation. Should I email them or something? Beeblebrox (talk) 22:00, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
- Hi, Beeblebrox. This board is not normally frequented by arbitrators, but by admins who do arbitration enforcement, such as I. Your request is a bit short on details - if you would like enforcement action taken against specific editors, I recommend the use of the form {{Arbitration enforcement request}}. Sandstein 20:17, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Sulmues
[edit]Sulmues (talk · contribs) warned. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Sulmues[edit]
Back in December, this user was placed under the following 3 month civility supervision [117] per WP:ARBMAC by User:Moreschi for outbursts such as these [118] [119] [120]. Following continuing trolling and incivility, he was blocked for 1 week per the terms of his civility parole, which was reset so as to expire April 27, 2010 [121]. Since then, he has continued trolling and breaching the terms of his civility parole. Specifically:
Discussion concerning Sulmues[edit]Ok, I'm ready. They are all false accusations and this is a really bad report. I reject the accusations as follows:
More trolling: [172] [173] [174] [175].
Response to further accusations from User:Alexikoua: user:spitfire clearly explained that the report DID NOT CLAIM that I am "possibly a meatpuppet" like you repeat (see [202]). This is a heavy accusation that you have done several times even in the recent report that user:Kushtrim123 has just filed against you and we are still waiting for a response on it. You have been edit-warring in many articles recently using forum sources and you just got out of the block for edit-warring! I still need your public apologies for filing a bogus SPI report that I am possibly a sock. It seems like you still are not convinced that I am a sock ([203]) and this is pitiful. --sulmues (talk) 07:28, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
@Sandstein: I really don't see how you concluded that I am disruptive. I addressed every single accusation. You are not addressing the issues clearly and are taking little time to see things in particular. How can things "on the whole" be that I am disruptive if, in particular, they are not disruptive? Your conclusion just doesn't make any sense. The only accusation that you seem to endorse is that I gave barnstars to people who fight vandalism. How is that an incivil way? kedadi fights vandalism every day and keeps the Albania articles clean. Doesn't he deserve a barnstar? In addition to user:Aigest I awarded the barnstar because he is fighting "EXTREMIST editors". How's that a battleground behavior? Let me understand: you are deciding to topic ban me because I gave out barnstars? Let me also understand: How am I being unpersuasive after addressing every single accusation? I would gently ask that you analyze my response to the other users: which it seems you have not seen yet, because I wrote them after you wrote your thoughts. Speedy topic banning me goes even beyond what's asked by user:Athenean. In addition, even though I was continuously harassed even in an incivil way, I never was incivil, in addition I never used Wikipedia as a battleground. Thank you for your attention! --sulmues (talk) 07:49, 17 March 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Sulmues[edit]From what I've seen of this user in the few discussions we've both participated, is the persistence on a certain version of one article (ex. in Aoos), which is usually motivated by dogmatism. There is also the lack of will for discussion, and the absence of arguments and usually also absence sources, to the point that discussion is not only fruitless but useless and intervention becomes extremely important, if not vital, when normally the users should be able to reach a consensus via discussion and not need intervention unless an issue is extremely controversial or an attitude is problematic.--Michael X the White (talk) 21:56, 16 March 2010 (UTC) I want to say that User:Sulmues in the days I have been here in wikipedia has been cooperative and hasn't created any "problems". On the other hand User:Athenean keeps following other users like myself and keeps accusing them about things that have been proven not to be true. If he wants to award stuff to people it's his right, and if you think that "hope no one gets offended" is provocative that's just meaningless. How can a sentence like that be provocative?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:27, 16 March 2010 (UTC) Wow, yet another report against User:Sulmues. It's clear that User:Athenean wants him to get banned (at least blocked) by any means, although the accusations have always been proven not to be true. Thank you. kedadial 23:13, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Sulmues[edit]
The edits cited in this request are not sanctionable misconduct individually, but in aggregate they represent a pattern of battleground behavior, as seen especially in Sulmues awarding barnstars for "fighting" against other editors. This, rather than incivility, is the main problem here in my eyes. The statements made by Sulmues in his defense are unpersuasive; they mostly amount to "yes but I am right and the others are wrong and/or disruptive". That is not what matters here: you may well be right in your content disputes and your opponents may well be disruptive too, but that still does not justify you engaging in disruptive conduct. Per WP:BATTLE: "If another user behaves in an uncivil, uncooperative, or insulting manner, or even tries to harass or intimidate you, this does not give you an excuse to respond in kind." For these reasons, I intend to sanction Sulmues with a time-limited ban from topics related to Albania and the Albanians, which appears to be the area of conflict, unless other admins disagree. However, as a formality, the reporting editor will need to first complement the request with a diff of the prior {{uw-sanctions}}-style warning as required by WP:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions. This should not be considered an endorsement of anything done by the editors Sulmues is in conflict with; indeed, these may very well have engaged in similar sanctionable conduct, but that would need to be examined in a separate AE request. Sandstein 07:19, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
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Abd
[edit]Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Abd
[edit]- User requesting enforcement
- Enric Naval (talk) 08:33, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Abd (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy that this user violated
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William_M._Connolley#Abd_editing_restriction_.28existing_disputes.29
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- :
- [227] Removes from Ghost the lead paragraph that has been heavily disputed, and claims himself the arbiter of how much consensus is needed to place it on the lead.
- [228] Removes the pseudoscience arbitration case notice from Talk:Ghost. (unlogged edit) He wasn't an originating party from either the "does Ghost belong to pseudoscience category" dispute, or the "should we place the pseudoscience arbitration notice here" dispute
- [229] Removes it again, saying that the argument should count even if it was made by an IP.
- [230] Comments out of the RfC section, in a topic that was not covered by the RfC
- [231] Removes the NSF commentary from the pseudoscience case notice in Talk:Pseudoscience (directly relevant to the Ghost dispute)
- [232][233][234][235][236][237][238] Uses the whitelist page to comment on a lot of requests where he is not an originating party. Notice that the meaning of "originating party" was further clarified two weeks ago [239][240] and this is a clear violation.
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- # [241] Warning by Enric Naval (talk · contribs)
- Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
- One week block, as the restriction says.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- Ghost-related violations: Abd is not an originating party of the already-existing dispute that was going on Ghost. He has commented on the dispute outside of the context of the RfC, and he has extended the already-existing dispute about the NSF source into the Pseudoscience talk page.
- Whitelist-related violations: Abd held a discussion here about improving the whitelist, but he has implemented it in a way that allows him to comment in any already-existing dispute that involves a whitelisting request, independently of whether he was an originating party or not. In [242], he advises an editor about COI, and this sort of advice is what caused the problems with LirazSiri, with those problems leading to his last AE block.
- He made two additional diffs that are not so clear-cut, so I sent those to requests for clarification. The diffs listed above are the clear-cut ones, and they are by themselves a clear violation. --Enric Naval (talk) 08:35, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
- [243]
Discussion concerning Abd
[edit]Statement by Abd
[edit]See also Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification#Request_for_clarification: Abd-William_M._Connolley (Abd's restriction) filed by Enric Naval. When Enric first complained about my Ghost edits, I placed a request on my Talk page noting that I would respect any clarification by a neutral administrator covering this new interpretation, pending resolution. Absent such, since Enric Naval was highly involved in the subject RfAr and has consistently presented himself as an adverse party, with a number of complaints that were not sustained, I do not consider his interpretation binding. This request, however, reaches even beyond that. I respond in detail in collapse, if anyone needs detail. The collapse summaries should be adequate as non-evidenced response.
1. Single edit to Ghost, not a participation in discussion of a dispute
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The existing dispute was over the use of an NSF report in an attempt to establish a scientific consensus that belief in ghosts was a pseudoscientific belief. The edit did not weigh in on this, but rather on a different issue, whether or not the NSF comment was sufficiently notable and required by balance in the lede. One does not make oneself the "sole arbiter" of some text by asserting a single edit. Nor did this edit "discuss" an extant controversy, which was over an RS issue, not lede characteristics as such. The comment about consensus was my understanding of our guidelines.
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2. Pseudoscience arbitration case notice: not a participation in discussion of a dispute
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At the time, Ghost was not in the pseudoscience category. It is now, but only as a result of protection of the "wrong version" in the middle of an edit war over it. Further, that notice was being used to insert an unsigned personal opinion, under color of an ArbComm finding. The simplest way to deal with it was to remove it. Ordinarily, I'd have made a single edit, as I initially did, and then left final disposition to the community. But autologout had struck, so it was IP. And then an editor removed it as if it had been vandalism, not appearing to read the edit summary. So I restored it logged-in, and noted that edits by IP editors should receive the same respect as edits by logged-in editors, generally. The edit was again reverted and I did not continue. There is serious disruption going on at Ghost and in the pseudoscience area, with edit warring at WP:NPOV, Ghost, and Pseudoscience, such that the two articles have been full protected. I am not the cause of this disruption, not even close. I have only asserted, simply, normal editorial positions, without discussion (except for the inadvertent post mentioned outside collapse and allowed RfC comment). This kind of activity is not what the sanction was designed to address. I was not aware of a "should we place the arbitration notice here" dispute. Perhaps Enric Naval could point out where it was. It became a dispute later, may still be in dispute, I don't know. If it started with the original placement and my removal, am I then an "originating party"? It doesn't matter, in fact, because I don't intend to discuss it. I took an action, a permitted one, not "discussion" but ordinary editing (with the minimal encouraged "discussion" of edit summary explaining the edit). The edit was a completely independent judgment and not relevant to the original dispute, on the face. That my edit appeared to support one side of a dispute does not mean that it was a comment on the dispute. I was asserting a Talk page content issue, and that assertion did not address the standing dispute, which was not over the Talk page notice itself, even though those arguing might preferentially have one position or another. My work is not defined by several editors arguing, and was not a "comment" on their dispute. It was my action, as a member of the community who attempts to anticipate consensus, acting to express it. In the end, whether I'm correct or not will be up to the community, and these brief and quickly reversible actions, easily ignored if they are improper and find no support, are not disruptive. The raging debate, with three RfCs and counting, edit warring and repetition and multiplication of arguments, is. If I express my specific opinion about this, as to the factions, I'd be violating my ban, though it might leak through sometimes. |
3. Discussion in Talk:Ghost, inadvertent ban violation, now struck
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. I struck Discussion in Talk:Ghost, as soon as I realized, it being pointed out by SamJohnston, in the RfAr/Clarification, that this was discussion, not a comment in an RfC, and related to a dispute in which I was not an originating party. I'd have deleted it if it had been immediately pointed out. The edit was unsigned and probably inadvertent. I put great effort into complying with the ban, while remaining engaged in permitted activity. I occasionally write a response, then dump it as it becomes clear to me that it would push the edge of the ban. I am attempting to interpret the ban very strictly, as I agreed to do. Had I been blocked for this edit, I'd have had no response but "Oops! Sorry!" At this point, I really don't understand why I'd even write the thing, all I can imagine is that I became confused as to where I was, given that I was also commenting, around the same time, in two different RfCs over the basic issue. So, at this point, I'd request one thing relevant to enforcement. If not for the ban, would that edit have been harmful? It is expressing what will probably be community consensus when the smoke clears, and, if not, at least it was a reasonable expression of what will become part of the consensus. I consider that edit crossed into doubtful territory, at least, so it is not a toe in the door, and I request that I not be blocked as a result of it. Repetition of such edits would appropriately see response with a block, even if inadvertent. I would also not object to a short block or a block log annotation, so that there is a ready record of violation history. However, this does not apply to the rest of what Enric Naval has alleged. --Abd (talk) 17:09, 17 March 2010 (UTC) |
4. Alleged removal of NSF commentary: Not a removal and not discussion.
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Since the removal of the notice, an RfAr ruling on pseudoscience placed on a Talk page for an article not in the pseudoscience category, the topic not being covered in the definition of pseudoscience in the ruling itself, was reverted, I then separated the comment so that it was clear that it was separate, addressing the most serious problem. I did not, as claimed by Enric Naval, remove it. I think he didn't read the whole diff. This is all normal editorial process whereby some compromise is made that preserves the critical values of all sides. I was disputing the Talk page notice and how it was presented, and working this out quickly and efficiently without tendentious discussion. That, it seems, is what ArbComm wanted me to do. I was not intervening in someone else's dispute, even though my actions might have an effect on that dispute. Note that the entire ruling was again taken out later as misleading or confusing. That may or may not stand. I do not necessarily support the removal, in fact, because I do not support arguing over trivialities, and especially not revert warring over them. I am not taking a side in the dispute between editors, on-wiki. (Off-wiki, I certainly have my opinions.) If one faction wants it in, and it is on a Talk page and does not do serious harm, why not leave it for a while? I simply took action, based on project welfare, and the sanction only covers certain kinds of discussion. I was personally content with separating out the most contentious part so that it was attributed, and possibly, if it were still considered disruptive (as argued in the latest removal) might have added some more qualifying text that would avoid misinterpretation. But I'm probably done with that issue, and I'm discussing it here only because of this AE request. In general, enforcement efforts over the sanction have caused far more waste of time than any disruption resulting from my alleged violations, most of which have not been sustained where examined. |
5. Whitelist activity: Not a dispute and not discussion of a dispute
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I'm flabbergasted by this one. Whitelist requests have been sitting for as long as two months with no response, or there is a single comment that is ambiguous and makes no decision. I've been in extensive discussion with Beetstra over this for a very long time, up to a year, and the case RfAr/Abd and JzG was originally about an improper blacklisting by an involved admin, and ArbComm confirmed there that blacklisting should not be based on admins making content decisions. However, content issues are not completely irrelevant, either, for if it is true that there is no possible legitimate usage, or that such usage would be the exception rather than the rule, this can be a factor in deciding how serious spam should be before blacklisting and then requiring whitelisting of individual pages. Big problem, though, is a lack of volunteer support at the whitelist page, and there are very few administrators working on blacklisting issues. So, after recent discussion, I offered to help at the whitelist page, trying to pioneer a way for non-administrators to help, and my intention would be to solicit other editors to do the same, and to develop clearer guidelines for whitelisting requests. To do that, I need experience making whitelist judgments. So I've started doing that. These are simply expressed opinions on a whitelisting request. They are completely independent, though I do consider any comments that exist already. None of these would be at the level of dispute as contemplated in the sanction, though it's possible that someone will dispute my comments. There is no assertion that any comment is improper. There is no dispute at all until there is a decision, though if I come across a request where there is serious dispute, I might consider that and recuse because of the ban. Someone else can look at them, and I'll try to facilitate that happening. I'm trying to make it quick and efficient to get a page whitelisted if there is an adequate possibility of legitimacy, and in doing this, there is a lot of flexibility. I can recommend "no action," but suggest to the requestor that they obtain support from other editors at an article Talk page, for example, or perhaps at a WikiProject. And if they do, then I can change my recommendation. Blacklist admins very obviously don't have time for this, and that is not their fault at all. My work there also will be of no effect, a waste of time, if no blacklist admin respects it. I have no coercive power, nor would I want it. But this is an opportunity for blacklist admins to stop making content decisions when they deny a request (or, for that matter, grant it, though a whitelisting does not make a decision that a link is to be used). As I see it, admins would never deny a request, they would let the community do that, and the community can make content decisions. Then, if an admin participates in a whitelist discussion, it's only as a member of the community. A close as "whitelist," however, requires an admin, because it's an edit to a protected page. I'm proceeding with sensitivity and cooperation, I hope. Enric Naval clearly considers the project a battleground, so that any discussion of a proposal becomes a "dispute." I don't think so. I have no intention of becoming embroiled in other people's disputes, either on the whitelist page or elsewhere. I'm just trying to help clear up the backlog, and to help make the ArbComm ruling on blacklisting a reality, while fully respecting the needs of the administrators working on antispam process. I may be uniquely placed to accomplish this, given a great deal of time spent studying blacklist issues, and quite a bit of successful work with blacklist admins. (Don't mistake the occasional flare-ups for a lack of cooperation, blacklist admins are faced with a flood of spam and it is very hard to distinguish that, sometimes, from legitimate content additions, and they get faced with charges of "censorship!" all the time. They need help and support that, at the same time, respects the goal: a functional editorial community which also needs assistance and support, necessary for the project.) |
Enric Naval's warning: not about the only actual violation (number 3)
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Enric Naval warned me only about the first item in his list. I responded adequately there, soliciting clarification from any neutral admin, should any agree with him. None did. The only violation here is his item 3, which was inadvertent, I was slow to recognize it when SamJohnston pointed it out, because of the noise about "violations" that weren't. You can see in my edits to RfAr/Clarification that at first I thought he was pointing to RfC text, I was astonished to find that he was right, so sure was I that I'd confined discussion to comment in RfC. Perfect and error-free, I am not. |
- @Verbal Please do not bring an open content dispute here, there is an RfC on the very position you are asserting, and your position is not the majority one, so far. That may change. It's moot for AE, because my sanction does not prohibit me from making errors about content. As to length of comment, my essential response is all visible outside of collapse, each collapse having a descriptive title that says it. There is no obligation to read the "details." Is there harm in them being made available? --Abd (talk) 19:10, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- @TS Continually injecting these thousand-word essays into discussions on Wikipedia. Have I done this anywhere recently, even once, let alone "continually"? I assume I'm allowed freedom on my own Talk page, and to present evidence and argument as needed when I'm hauled before ArbComm or AE. If I'm being "continually" hauled before ArbComm or AE, maybe some attention should be paid to that, and to who is doing it. You do realize it's the same people, don't you? --Abd (talk) 19:34, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- @Hans Adler. While I appreciate your support, the question here is my right to make the edits, not whether they were "correct" or not. While your view, if accepted, might be an ameliorating factor in ban enforcement, that's about it. Thanks. --Abd (talk) 19:41, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
@JzG and One Night in Hackney: I disputed an unopposed extreme claim by an editor on the blacklist page, thus originating a "dispute" as allowed.
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Whether or not songfacts.com is RS or not is not the issue here, and it wastes all our time for irrelevant issues to be brought here. I am not under a sanction to never make an error in an argument, even if I did that. These AE requests have, however, often been an occasion for editors to scour my contributions looking for anything they disagree with, which they toss in the hopper, making it look like I'm being massively disruptive, challenging the edges, etc. I have extensive experience with blacklisting issues, having brought an RfAr over blacklist abuse by JzG, confirmed as such by ArbComm, but I did far more work with the blacklist than was about JzG, with quite a bit of success, and with successful cooperation with blacklist admins. And now this is being threatened, not because I'm disruptive at the blacklist/whitelist, -- that's preposterous if you look at the pages -- but because a long-term agenda to ban me from the site (I've documented this before, it's been openly expressed) sees opportunities. If this is not noticed and stopped, it will continue until I'm banned again, or spike my password, and when I'm gone, the same editors will continue to do this with others, as they did before I ever became involved, while I was site-banned, and in matters that involve me not at all. I made an additional comment on the blacklist talk page in response to comment from Beetstra, which could be seen as a closer approach to the ban edge, because Beetstra had referred to the IP editor's behavior, though I was still trying to avoid comment on the dispute (on the IP editor Talk page), as can be seen, so, since nobody has replied to that edit, I have reverted it, even though it has not been mentioned here. --Abd (talk) 18:05, 18 March 2010 (UTC) |
- @Enric Naval: The sanction is very specific as to this 3.3) Abd is indefinitely prohibited from discussing any dispute in which he is not an originating party. This includes [all Wikipedia pages]. He may, however, vote or comment at polls. I am prohibited from discussing the disputes of others on Wikipedia pages. I am not prohibited from non-discussion action, such as editing an article. I may not enter an existing dispute discussion. While I could start a new section and discuss my own independent issue, I'm not aware of taking advantage of this anywhere that an existing dispute is involved, and usually it is not needed. I may watch and comment in RfCs that appear, though, and I am under no 0RR restriction or the like. Thus the original intention of the ban, probably about "tomes" considered offensive, is not violated by ordinary article space edits, which are not "discussion," unless I made them so, nor by other edits which do not discuss a standing dispute, and especially if the length is restrained. --Abd (talk) 19:11, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
- @SamJohnston beats dead horse. Response to charge (3) above discusses that edit and acknowledges ban violation and discusses response. Generally, Wikipedia does not punish, but acts to prevent damage. I made an edit, inadvertent or not, and it's up to enforcing administrators as to what is best for the wiki, and I only ask that such be neutral, as policy requires. --Abd (talk) 19:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC) Providing evidence to prove a violation already acknowledged by me, with link, is indeed "beating a dead horse," that's what it means, belaboring the obvious and already accepted. --Abd (talk) 04:23, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
General comment on enforcement.
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In reviewing this, if block response (and there was one violating edit) is found appropriate, I ask that the block record be considered. Please notice that the two blocks began with one week (excessive for first ban block), were placed by a single admin, already in dispute with me over a serious issue (recusal failure re prior threat to block another, made on my Talk page), and were not based on any of the AE reports or RfAr/Clarifications, with respect to actions that were not covered by the ban as understood at that time. To avoid disruption, I accepted a much tighter definition of the ban, and then, second incident in particular, was blocked for something that I never dreamed would be covered, that already existed during the tightening clarification, and that hadn't been considered to be a violation previously, and without warning, other than uselessly general ones. --Abd (talk) 19:37, 18 March 2010 (UTC) |
- @Stifle. I agree that there was a technical violation, number 3 in the list above, and I acknowledged that immediately as soon as it was pointed out. If you believe that any other edit violated the sanction, it would be useful to note it, or to note the absence of such, so that this whole thing isn't a waste. Thanks. --Abd (talk) 14:54, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Abd
[edit]Comment by Verbal
[edit]Two quick points, having not read all of Abd's wall-o-text. 1, is there/shouldn't there be a limit on the length of Abd's response? Collapsing bits isn't a substitute. 2, Ghost is in the pseudoscience category, via the paranormal category, so his reasoning on that whole point is faulty (this doesn't preclude other instances of his reasoning being faulty). Verbal chat 18:52, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- Could we impose a community remedy requiring Abd to communicate normally? Five or six brief sentences should be enough for anybody. Continually injecting these thousand-word essays into discussions on Wikipedia is perhaps the most destructive of Abd's activities. --TS 19:18, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- I believe this was a restriction or similar (recommendation?) placed on him at the close of a previous arbcom case. Verbal chat 19:57, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
@Abd I haven't brought a dispute here, that Ghost is in the PS category (whether that category is on the page or not) is an easily verifiable fact, and a fact that no one has disputed - or can without being shown to be wrong. And yes, there is a harm especially when they contain incorrect statements that at first blush appear true - such as saying Ghost isn't in the PS cat, or that this is disputed. The level of it's inclusion has been a topic of minor dispute, but it's still there (Cat Ghosts -> cat paranormal -> cat pseudoscience). Also, there is a simple way of ending Abd's attachment to AE and ArbCom, which would be a net positive for the project. Verbal chat 19:53, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Hans On ghost I feel it is justified, on witches I'm not really interested, and I don't know of any other article where this has been pushed, and it's not relevant either. As for Ghost, I honestly disagree with you there. Please calm down - I'm not part of any gang (not even one of abd's famous cabals). Verbal chat 19:57, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- Existing dispute: Abd has made it clear that what attracted him to the Ghost dispute was the presence of "cabal" editors, with whom he is already in a dispute with, making this indeed a clear violation of his restriction and a case of hounding - which it was clearly anyway, as are most of his "interventions". Verbal chat 22:19, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Hans Adler
[edit]Concerning Enric's diffs #1 and #4:
Abd removed two passages based on crass misrepresentations of an NSF paper. Every editor with a bit of experience with scientific or scholarly work (such as having written and refereed scientific publications) can see immediately that these paragraphs were quote-mined and quoted out of context. #1 was worse than #4 in that it appeared in article space. The passage would have been somewhat defensible (although still problematic) if it had appeared in the body of the article. But putting it in the lead is simply not reasonable and makes it a misquotation. #4 was worse than #1 in that it contained a lie. A lie that was put at the head of the article talk page in order to intimidate other editors and make them believe Ghost is without any doubt a pseudoscience topic, because: "The scientific consensus, as expressed by the National Science Foundation, has identified belief in ten subjects to be pseudoscientific beliefs. They are: [...] ghosts, [...] witches, reincarnation, [...]." Yes, that's what it claimed, with reference to a section "Belief in Pseudoscience" of Chapter 7 ("Public Attitudes and Understanding") of the 2006 edition (only) of a biannual NSF publication on "Science and Engineering Indicators".
The front matter of the paper is broken (404 error), so we don't even know who wrote that section. It certainly doesn't speak about "scientific consensus", that's all BullRangifer's original research. It doesn't claim to "identify" any beliefs in any way. It just looks at Americans' belief in pseudoscience by considering a Gallup study that examines belief in paranormal. In this context, the paper is written under the tacit assumption that paranormal implies pseudoscience to the extent necessary for the discussion, but never says so explicitly. What makes this really fishy is that the paragraph that suggests that belief in ghosts and (via a footnote) witchcraft is (sometimes? usually? always?) belief in pseudoscience is preceded by a paragraph with a correct definition of pseudoscience ("claims presented so that they appear [to be] scientific even though [...]"), but nothing is said about the obvious contradiction.
To me, Abd does not seem to be a big problem at the moment. BullRangifer and Verbal are currently creating disruption over more and more articles and policy pages with their attempts to apply the "pseudoscience" label to everything and the kitchen sink, making liberal use of unethical methods in the process. Please take that into account. Hans Adler 19:32, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
- @Abd: The ameliorating factor is precisely what I am driving at. There is a danger that some people make up their minds too quickly about the Ghost situation, allow that to influence their opinion about this request, and are reluctant to revise their position when Ghost comes up later elsewhere, because they have already acted on their original position. Hans Adler 10:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by JzG
[edit]The edit to Ghost and involvement in the dispute there is an unambiguous violation of the restriction on becoming involved in disputes in which Abd is not an originating party. Claiming that it was not related to pseudoscience because the category was not in the article at the time is both false and blatant Wikilawyering since the entire dispute is about the categorisation of this subject as pseudoscience.
Hans is arguing that the content of the edits was right. This is irrelevant. It was a dispute and Abd piled in to make a controversial edit taking one side of an existing dispute. Sure, Hans likes the result, Hans is one of those on the side of removing all references to the NST's categorisation of belief in ghosts as pseudoscience, but that is not the point at issue, the point at issue is: did Abd violate his ban on becoming involved in pre-existing disputes? It is unarguably true that this is precisely what he did.
The spam blacklist discussions are also violations of the restriction on becoming involved in disputes in which Abd is not an originating party. Asserting that there is no problem because people can ignore him is blatant Wikilawyering against the clear intent of the restriction, the context of which includes Abd's involvement in spam blacklist / whitelist discussions. Songfacts is a dispute involving an IP editor who has been spamming the site, that is not Abd's battle.
The comments by Abd above are unambiguous violations of the requirement not to continually rake over the coals of past disputes - in effect "whatever you say, I was still right".
Enforcement, please. Guy (Help!) 10:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by One Night In Hackney
[edit]Following on from what JzG says, the songfacts intervention here is decidedly unhelpful. When he states "It appears that this is not a site with pure user-generated content. Users may submit content but it is reviewed and fact-checked before being published" this has no basis in reality. songfacts.com/legal.php (no direct link to avoid cocking up the blacklisting) says "Songfacts, LLC does not guarantee the accuracy of the information posted, as it may contain technical and factual errors", so there is no reputation for fact checking and accuracy. Abd is simply attempting to crusade against the use of the blacklist in cases he doesn't think it appropriate, regardless of the actual facts of the situation. I would agree wholeheartedly with enforcement, the constant pushing of the limits of his editing restriction need to be dealt with firmly. 2 lines of K303 14:25, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Additional comment by Enric Naval
[edit]Abd keeps making edits related to the pseudoscience dispute, in which he is not an originating party. He has removed the pseudoscience category from another article he had never edited before[244]. --Enric Naval (talk) 10:41, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Additional comment by SamJohnston
[edit]As I said in the clarification, if you break it down this appears to be fairly straightforward:
- Was there an existing dispute? Yes
- Did Abd discuss the dispute? Yes (unsigned)
- Was Abd an originating party? No.
I don't believe that confining commentary to edit summaries and/or new threads evades the restriction because it includes, but is not limited to talk pages et al. That said, the editing restriction is intended to avoid inflaming disputes, not prevent Abd from editing altogether (we have blocks for that). With this interpretation Abd would be able to edit provided he avoided hotspots and raised his own new issues as required.
While Abd claims above that this edit was "unsigned and probably inadvertent", it is still a clear violation and should result in a block - even a short one - particularly in light of subsequent editing relating to the same controversial topic. Future violations should be similarly punished, ideally with minimal time-wasting, navel-gazing discussion. If I were Abd I'd be focusing on uncontroversial edits with a view to having my restriction reviewed. -- samj inout 15:09, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
- How is pointing out a blatantly obvious violation of your editing restriction "beating a dead horse"? While we're at it, how does a 350 word interjection into an existing debate "inadvertently" appear, without a signature no less? Is this because of the flu too? You broke the restriction so you should be blocked and if you break it again you should be blocked again - sounds fair enough to me. If you don't want to be blocked then don't constantly test the limits. -- samj inout 21:18, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
- It occurs me that Abd's motivation for being an editor could well be sparring with other editors rather than actual, uncontroversial editing. He talks about being more concerned about the "welfare of the project" than "personal editing rights" while making an ultimatum saying "bye, folks, if nothing changes" because he's "so restricted that [he] can't edit Wikipedia, in substance". How hard is it to follow arbitrators' advice and "find a quiet area to work in" rather than jumping head first into existing disputes? If this is indeed the case then routine enforcement of the editing restriction should prove an effective remedy. -- samj inout 05:34, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
- @GoRight: Abd is barred from "posing arguments in content disputes" (as he has done here) because it is not a poll and he is not an originating party: "Abd is indefinitely prohibited from discussing any dispute in which he is not an originating party, [including] article talk pages". If you still can't WP:HEAR that then I refer you to the latest clarification, as upheld by the arbitrators: "The rule is simple: never comment about any conflict between two or more people who are not you." -- samj inout 05:58, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
- Again boiling it down to basics, Abd started editing Ghost, contributed to existing content disputes here and here (so much for a single "inadvertent" violation), removed controversial content actively being discussed from the article and talk page here and here and the article was protected for Edit warring / Content dispute the very next day. He then made a similar controversial edit to the Witchcraft article, where the same topic was also an existing debate. To quote Hans Adler: "He tried to help, but he wasn't helpful".
- The loopholes used to justify participation in the existing conflicts were a) article edits, b) edit summaries and c) polls. These should be closed by clarification (even if just by requiring Abd to avoid active areas). -- samj inout 17:40, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by uninvolved Ncmvocalist
[edit]I'm not convinced that the current sanctions are sufficient to address the core issues, like overwhelming discussion with excessive posting - I've made a community sanction proposal that I think does a better job of addressing that. Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:55, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by GoRight
[edit]Wow, Enric is not leaving any stone unturned. Simply put, Enric is a long time antagonist of Abd and this request should be viewed as vexatious. Enric should be barred from discussing Abd anywhere on-wiki to put an end to this continuing disruption. Abd is not barred from editing articles, enforcing wikipedia policy, and posing arguments in content disputes. This is all he did despite Enric's framing of the facts to suit his own purposes. --GoRight (talk) 03:39, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
- @SJ : "Abd is barred from "posing arguments in content disputes" ... " - You seem to be confused on a couple of points. First, the sanction that you point to is no longer the controlling language. The language of the sanction was modified by a motion of Arbcom and can now be found here. Second, you seem to feel that the current language somehow restricts Abd from editing articles or being involved in content disputes over those articles. They do not. He is free to edit articles and comment on the content in question which is precisely what he did. Nothing more. Nothing less. His choice of articles, on the other hand, leaves something to be desired but it is not a violation of his restrictions. --GoRight (talk) 03:05, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
- General Comment : "The rule is simple: never comment about any conflict between two or more people who are not you." - Words have meanings. This statement does not restrict Abd from participating in content disputes which involve other people or for making arguments about that content. This is evident from any plain reading of that text. If people are confused about what these particular words mean or if they believe that Arbcom actually intended something different than what they said, then the correct course of action is to ask Arbcom for clarification. --GoRight (talk) 06:35, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
- A request for an uninvolved admin : I take note of [245] and [246] and the note at the top of that section which reads "This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above." and would ask that this editor's comment be moved out of the section reserved for administrators. I would have done so myself but given the current attitude this editor seems to be expressing towards me I felt it would be not well received. Thanks. --GoRight (talk) 20:29, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
Comment by Ludwigs2
[edit]Well, just looking at the diffs objectively, I don't really see any problematic behavior. A few short on-point, comments, the removal of specious material that was being edit-warred into the document. I can't judge whether or not Abd's actions violated the letter of the Arbitration ruling (I leave that up to others), but I'm pretty convinced that his edits did not violate the spirit of the rulings - nothing in any of these edits speaks to someone intentionally trying to push boundaries or break rules. This whole thing seems a bit... hasty.
What this decision is going to come down to is a cool-head/hot-head disagreement: a cool-headed view on this can only conclude that there's not a whole lot going on here, despite the protestations of the hot-heads. Hopefully the cool-heads will carry the day. --Ludwigs2 05:36, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Abd
[edit]- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- My first inclination is that there has been a technical violation of the restriction. However, it's stale at this stage and enforcement would be punitive. I am minded therefore to close this report with no further action, but am open to other suggestions. Stifle (talk) 12:54, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
- A warning to stop testing the limits would be good. Guy (Help!) 14:52, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
- Given the direction the clarification is going, I'd tend to agree. It's not my intention to stop Abd from editing, just to stop him from editing disruptively. -- samj inout 15:06, 23 March 2010 (UTC)