Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions
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==Volunteer Marek== |
==Volunteer Marek== |
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{{hat|Referred to the Arbitration Committee. [[User:El_C|El_C]] 18:02, 31 May 2019 (UTC)}} |
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<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> |
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br />Requests may not exceed 500 [[Word count#Software|words]] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> |
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* There is very likely something actionable here, at least on the part of Volunteer Marek. But the (perhaps quite legitimate) scope of the complaint exceeds what can reasonably be reviewed and decided at AE by a single admin. We are best suited to dealing with cases involving one or two diffs of clear misconduct. I support a referral to ArbCom. Of course, if anybody else wants to spend half a day looking through all of this and coming to a decision, feel free... <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 08:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC) |
* There is very likely something actionable here, at least on the part of Volunteer Marek. But the (perhaps quite legitimate) scope of the complaint exceeds what can reasonably be reviewed and decided at AE by a single admin. We are best suited to dealing with cases involving one or two diffs of clear misconduct. I support a referral to ArbCom. Of course, if anybody else wants to spend half a day looking through all of this and coming to a decision, feel free... <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 08:15, 31 May 2019 (UTC) |
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*I tend to agree with {{u|Sandstein}} and {{u|Black Kite}}. This is rather complex to be handled by the action of a single admin here. An actual arbitration request would have structured presentation of evidence and a longer period of time to review and sort it out, and I think that's going to be required here. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 17:05, 31 May 2019 (UTC) |
*I tend to agree with {{u|Sandstein}} and {{u|Black Kite}}. This is rather complex to be handled by the action of a single admin here. An actual arbitration request would have structured presentation of evidence and a longer period of time to review and sort it out, and I think that's going to be required here. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 17:05, 31 May 2019 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 18:03, 31 May 2019
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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BorchePetkovski
BorchePetkovski is topic banned from all areas pertaining to Macedonia, broadly construed, indefinitely. El_C 20:28, 24 May 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning BorchePetkovski
It is my personal opinion that the editor in question is simply WP:NOTHERE. They likely are simply an SPA used to push a POV. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 23:42, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
Discussion concerning BorchePetkovskiStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by BorchePetkovskiStatement by (username)Result concerning BorchePetkovski
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SashiRolls
Awilley has applied a No personal comments restriction on SashiRolls for one year. El_C 00:24, 28 May 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning SashiRolls
Full disclosure: I inadvertently violated 1RR myself on May 19 because I did not realize that the article was under 1RR and did not notice the page notice. Once I became aware, I acknowledged my error here. Most of my edits were undone by SashiRolls and I did a self-revert here. - MrX 🖋 22:11, 26 May 2019 (UTC)
Discussion concerning SashiRollsStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SashiRollsThis toxic bullying and false report to AE timed for the beginning of the work-week should result in MrX being blocked. There is a reason why MrX does not follow the AE instructions (explain HOW the diffs violate 1RR), because they do not. On 22 May, MrX boldly re-introduced an NBC News article which had been rejected by TP consensus back in February (not quite unanimously: the sockpuppet "Dan the Plumber" was the lone voice arguing for its inclusion on her BLP). Both edits MrX incriminates on 25 May 2019 are related to this prior TP consensus as I made clear in my edit summary and are exempt from 1RR: Looking more closely at MrX's claim about my editorial action on the 22 May 2019 it should be noted that the first was a straightforward removal of the undue material and the second was a rewrite adding 2 reactions directly relevant to the affair, but leaving the "info" in place. Even MrX had accepted on the TP that this should be first discussed on the campaign talk page before being added to the BLP. MrX: " The only other significant edit I've made to the page was to restore the mention of TG's membership on the House Foreign Affairs Committee that an IP had removed with a deceptive edit summary. Therefore, MrX's claim that I have reverted "most of his edits" (9RR) on the 19 May 2019 is patently false. MrX is assuming nobody will look into this pants-on-fire lie. The only edits made by MrX on 19 May 2019 that I touched in any way are related to the bad faith Daily Beast article implying that Gabbard is a Russian stooge. edit: this is not quite right, I also restored the long-standing section titles MrX wanted to change Snoox: this is a convenient abbreviation for the two people who have been consistently working together to POV-push on Gabbard's BLP since January. As Thucydides mentions below, MrX (and Awilley for that matter) are curiously silent about Snoog's clear violations of NPA Snooganssnoogans: " Where the problem originates is clear, but will AE do something about it and deal with the Snoox? I predict that much will be made of my abbreviating their names into a harmless portmanteau and the legitimately venomous comments will be ignored. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to proven wrong and see some signs of integrity, but I won't hold my breath based on my experience...
MrX's claim that I "followed him to an unrelated ANI" discussion is false: he was prosecuting someone for reverting the "Dan the Plumber" sock who had been hyper-active on the Tulsi Gabbard talk page.
Conclusion: MrX wants to make my life complicated by starting a groundless AE case timed to coincide with the beginning of the workweek, because he knows I work for a living. This sort of aggressive behavior is defined at WP:HARASSMENT:
Statement by Thucydides411Let's look at the first series of diffs that MrX gives, because they paint a different picture from the one MrX is presenting:
A couple of comments:
The principle of "clean hands" is at work here. The editor bringing this complaint, MrX, has themselves ignored the consensus at the article. The material that MrX was attempting to reinstate was problematic from both BLP and weight perspectives. Note that MrX did not decide to bring a case against Snooganssnoogans for violating WP:CONSENSUS, but instead brought a case against SashiRolls for supposedly violating WP:1RR - the obvious difference being that Snooganssnoogans and MrX agree on the content issue. That leaves me with the impression that AE is being used in service of a content dispute. A neutral complaint would at least have mentioned Snooganssnoogans' and MrX' violation of WP:CONSENSUS - or better yet, AE would have been entirely avoided. The admins evaluating this case should take a close look at MrX's edits at Tulsi Gabbard, and judge not only SashiRolls' behavior, but also that of MrX. -Thucydides411 (talk) 03:17, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Statement by My very best wishesI disagree with assessment by Thucydides411 that there is a group of contributors who are "trying to push Russiagate into every article" which "is a real problem". This is Wikipedia:Casting aspersions by Thucydides411. Per WP:NPOV, the coverage in WP must reflect the coverage in RS, and it does, at least on this subject. The "interference" is so significant because it "helped" to effectively disable the entire political system in the US, as a result of electing certain officials and their actions. My very best wishes (talk) 17:19, 27 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Objective3000@Thucydides411: I haven’t weighed in on the Assange lead, and don’t wish to start a content discussion here; but I don’t think you are using a good example to make your point that some editors are
Statement by (username)Result concerning SashiRolls
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Batvette
Batvette is indefinitely topic-banned from post-1932 politics of the United States and closely related people, broadly construed. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:21, 28 May 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Batvette
Batvette consistently battlegrounds, ignores AGF, and personalizes nearly every dispute. He often literally taunts the (unspecified) editors who disagree with him; in fact, for the last week his user page included a taunt of his political opponents. Specific edits include:
Discussion concerning BatvetteStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by BatvetteI just saw this action so I will make my statement. Literally dozens of editors have made comments on the talk page in the last 2 months complaining of its NPOV nature. They have provided sound arguments with RS. A small handful of editors including the one filing the complaint have stonewalled opposing views. Complaintant stated falsely "a couple of editors" disagreed with consensus when I counted 28. ± Note that virtually all of the quotes he has provided, as colorful and admittedly heated as they are, are critical of other users COMMENTS and/or the tactics employed. Wiki policy is clear that youre supposed to comment about content, and users comments are content on a talk page. I apologize for perhaps being too wordy and posting some long rants, but do not mistake my criticism of other users arguments and tactics as attacks on their person. As for battleground that might be true if it were just myself arguing against their alleged consensus, however a review of that discussion does show 28 individual editors, the bulk of whom are experienced, having a problem with that page. Whatever the outcome of this its a point well taken and my comments probably should be shorter and less emotional. They would never have gotten that way had several editors been more open to compromise. Please see my history, Ive been here 13 years with no past disciplinary action. Perhaps this suggests the problem on that page isnt all me. Thank you. Batvette (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Objective3000R2 provides a sampling of the barrage of incivility. But, it’s not just the number of edits exhibiting battleground behavior, it’s the percentage. If you look through Batvette’s contributions, you’ll see that most of the edits include divisive, belittling, accusatory language aimed at other editors. And as one would expect, none of this has resulted in any consensus. I’m also bothered by their insistence on pushing the debunked claim that thousands of Muslims celebrated on NJ rooftops after the WTC collapsed on 9/11. [17] [18] [19] O3000 (talk) 11:26, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning Batvette
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Not actionable. Sandstein 17:37, 27 May 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning User:Snooganssnoogans
User:Snooganssnoogans is an experienced editor who frequently edits on pages relating to American politics. has also been involved in several arbitration matters (see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=snooganssnoogans&prefix=Wikipedia%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&advancedSearch-current=%7B%7D&ns0=1).
Discussion concerning User:SnooganssnoogansStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by User:Snooganssnoogans
Statement by User:MelanieNSnoogans is correct; there was no violation here. According to WP:EW, Statement by (username)Result concerning User:Snooganssnoogans
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Grayfell
Not actionable. El_C 04:26, 30 May 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Grayfell
I am making this report following the discussion here, at the suggestion of an editor who can't make a report because he doesn't have an account. Grayfell has a pattern of making edits that violate the strict sourcing requirements for statements about living people, particularly on articles about living people related to the race and intelligence controversy. Aside from the examples given above, a longer-term example of the problem is his pattern of edits to the Gerhard Meisenberg article: On 25 July, Grayfell heavily modified the article and added several negative statements. The following month, the article was tagged as an attack page. [24] In response to the tag, two editors, user:GB_fan and User:Narssarssuaq, attempted to restore balance to the article. [25] [26] [27] Both of these users' changes were subsequently undone by Grayfell, restoring the article to the version that had been tagged as an attack page. [28] [29] From August 2018 until the end of last year, Grayfell also reverted seven other edits by various users attempting to correct the same issues. [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] On 6 May, the article was tagged as an attack page a second time. [37] The second tagging led to the article being raised at the BLP noticeboard, and to an argument on the talk page between Grayfell and an IP editor. Based on the IP's analysis of the article's sources, a large portion of the negative material Grayfell had been restoring was cited to sources that do not mention Meisenberg, despite Grayfell's argument on the Seymour Itzkoff article that sources must mention the article's subject. This discussion led to the material in the Meisenberg article finally being removed without Grayfell restoring it, after having stayed in that article for almost a year. Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Reliable_sources says, "contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced should be removed immediately and without discussion", but Grayfell is making that policy impossible to follow with his habit of repeatedly restoring this material when other users attempt to remove it. According to the IP's statements here and here, the material added by Grayfell has had real-life consequences for the subject of one of these articles. This situation seems to recur on a different article every few weeks, so I request that admins please find a long-term solution to the problem.
Discussion concerning GrayfellStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by GrayfellLine by line:
Grayfell (talk) 20:46, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Statement by Ahrtoodeetoo
Statement by IP editorI'm the IP editor who requested for this report to be made. (Note that the IP mentioned by R2, who was accused of being a banned editor, was a different IP editor located several hundred miles from me.) There is an important reason I think this issue goes beyond a content dispute. Even in cases where Grayfell's views about sourcing are opposed by almost everyone else (as they have been on the Woodley article), his practice of restoring his changes whenever they're undone makes it extremely difficult to undo them permanently. On the Gerhard Meisenberg article, Grayfell restored his material after it was removed by six different users: User:GB_fan, User:Narssarssuaq, user:WalterNeumann, user:Ermaneric, user:Yucahu, and user:Evangw29114. In his response above, Grayfell justified his actions by linking to an investigation where one of these users, Yucahu, was eventually blocked as a sockpuppet. None of the others appear to have been sockpuppets. Above Grayfell stated, "several of the people you mention did not revert me, and were not reverted by me", so here's a summary with diffs. Ermaneric removes material, Grayfell restores it. WalterNeumann removes material, Grayfell restores it. GB fan removes material, Grayfell restores it. Narssarssuaq removes material, Grayfell restores it. Yucahu removes material, Grayfell restores it, Yucahu removes material, Grayfell restores it, Yucahu removes material, Grayfell restores it. Evangw29114 removes material, Grayfell restores it, Evangw29114 removes material, Grayfell restores it. Based on my discussions about this article with Dr. Meisenberg, I think I know why so many new users showed up on the article during that period. After Meisenberg lost his job because of the material Grayfell added to that article, the effects that this article had on him in real life became widely-known among Meisenberg's colleagues and former students, and several of them made attempts at bringing the article into compliance with BLP policy. However, all of those attempts were foiled by Grayfell, until I finally accomplished it earlier this month. One of the arbitration rulings linked to by Sinuthius [41] says: Wikipedia articles that present material about living people can affect their subjects' lives. Wikipedia editors who deal with these articles have a responsibility to consider the legal and ethical implications of their actions when doing so. In cases where the appropriateness of material regarding a living person is questioned, the rule of thumb should be "do no harm." This means, among other things, that such material should be removed until a decision to include it is reached, rather than being included until a decision to remove it is reached. What happened on the Meisenberg article seems to be exactly the situation that this ruling was designed to prevent. Grayfell has not acknowledged any problem with his actions on that article, and has continued to make similar edits to other BLP articles over the past month, so it's almost inevitable that another living person will eventually be harmed in a similar way. It will be a major failure on Wikipedia's part if nothing is done to prevent that. 2600:1004:B11D:8156:8834:1B10:BB88:F00E (talk) 00:48, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by PudeoThere are suspicions that the POV-pushing Grayfell is engaging in coordinated off-site. Check this WMF Labs editor interaction tool comparing Grayfell with a self-identified Gamergate SPA who wants to put other editors "to the wall". These articles are the same "cultural war" topics that the GamerGate ArbCom Case was about. --Pudeo (talk) 23:08, 29 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Beyond My KenPer the completely unusupported WP:ASPERSIONS in the above statement by Pudeo, obviously meant to muddy the waters and poison the well, Pudeo should be sanctioned, or, at the very least, warned. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:30, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Statement by NorthBySouthBaranofInteresting that Pudeo refers to purported "suspicions" of off-site coordination as if they are some known quantity, without providing a link to any on-wiki discussions of these purported "suspicions." Is Pudeo's post itself an off-site-coordinated attempt to smear Grayfell? NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 03:31, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Grayfell
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Volunteer Marek
Referred to the Arbitration Committee. El_C 18:02, 31 May 2019 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Volunteer Marek
Accusations of extremism
Accusations of racism
NPA/ASPERSIONS
OR/V
BLP
V/OR/BLP when reinstating content by sockpuppetsPer WP:PROXYING -
References
alerted 03:44, 23 May 2019 AE appeal 3 March 2019
Additional comments by editor filing complaintTrimmed.Icewhiz (talk) 20:56, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Volunteer MarekStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Volunteer MarekIt's going to take me some time to properly respond. There's a lot here and I can't respond to it without providing proper context, diffs and examples of Icewhiz's own behavior that my comments are responding too. This dispute has been ongoing for sometime now - it basically started when Icewhiz began editing the topic area. This has been at WP:AE before and Icewhiz recently made an effort at WP:ARBCOM which was soundly rejected. You'll have to give me a bit of time here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:04, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Really quick, even a cursory look at some diffs shows that it's nonsense and that Icewhiz is blatantly misrepresenting the situation. For example, second diff by Icewhiz [42], Icewhiz claims that my statement "Not even gonna take that extremist nonsense form you seriously" is directed at Dr. Jolanta Ambrosewicz-Jacobs. This is nonsense. The statement is directed at Icewhiz as the word "you" clearly indicates and his repeated derisive characterization of a professional historian and reliable source, P Gontarczyk, as a "radio historian" because... the guy gave an interview on radio [43] (there are more examples of this). That's right, Icewhiz is trying to claim that because a historian gave a radio interview, that makes them unreliable. That itself is a BLP vio - denigrating living people, and Icewhiz has been repeatedly warned about using Wikipedia to attack scholars he disagrees with.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:14, 30 May 2019 (UTC) @El C: - before I respond in detail, I would like to make a general note that at this point an ArbCom case might very well be necessary. I actually have a very large number of diffs which document extremely problematic behavior from Icewhiz, particularly in regard to BLPs, use of sources, and misleading invocations of policy that spans the last two years which show a clear pattern of conduct. The diffs themselves might go well beyond the word limit at WP:AE.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:17, 30 May 2019 (UTC) @El C: - thanks. With regard to the word limit - There's fifteen diffs here. Icewhiz's request is itself almost 1000 words (about double the allowed limit). It takes a lot more words to respond to an accusation than to make an accusation. It's simple to say "VM accused me of extremism". To respond to that I have to explain WHY I made that accusation, provide supporting evidence, and diffs. There's no way that I can adequately respond with under 500 words. It's unrealistic to ask me to do that. This is part of the reason why I think this might very well belong at ArbCom where a sufficient detail can be provided.Volunteer Marek (talk) 19:39, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
"You created a whole section dedicated to attacking OTHER living people" - WP:ASPERSIONS - false, created in 2012 by other editors. - the original section may have not been created by Icewhiz but its current shape (at the time of the diff) was constructed by Icewhiz in edits on May 8th [44] (and subsequent) and given its BLP vio title by Icewhiz [45] and here.Volunteer Marek (talk) 20:29, 30 May 2019 (UTC) User:MJL thanks. But I'm still at a loss as to what that has to do with this WP:AE report and why Sir Joseph is bringing it up here. He seems to be insinuating some kind of "bad" on my part in that ANI (come on man, if you think I did something wrong, have the guts to come out and say it) but there I made only one comment, in which I actually agreed with Jayjg. I guess if you want to be more precise, in that situation you got one WP:SPA tagging certain "controversial" Polish-Jewish individuals as "Jewish", while Icewhiz on the other hand is running around and trying to tag the same/similar Polish-Jewish individuals as "Polish". My point there was, that in both cases it's kind of ridiculous and WP:TEND, since both individuals ethnicity and citizenship can easily be inferred from the context. The WP:SPA got rightly blocked/banned for this. Why Icewhiz was allowed to get away with the same kind of behavior is a good question indeed.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:39, 31 May 2019 (UTC) @El C: @Black Kite: This addition right here (I see that after cutting down his statement Icewhiz couldn't resist but to come back and expand it back again) IS EXACTLY WHY it's impossible to have a constructive interaction with Icewhiz and why my comments often exhibit frustration. It is classic, textbook, quintessential, dictionary definition of WP:CPUSH. He says stuff like "the edit is deeply concerning", even bolds it. This "deeply concerning" language insinuates some nefarious bad action on more part, like, you know, Icewhiz, just can't believe that someone would make such an edit. He is deeply concerned. Very very very deeply. Come on! Does anyone seriously believe that he is "deeply concerned" here? Or is he just trying to pretend that a legitimate edit is problematic? What is suppose to be so "deeply concerning"? Icewhiz pretends that in that edit I "marked" a person as Jewish. Nonsense. What I did is undo a blanket revert by Icewhiz of well sourced text. There's six freakin' paragraphs that Icewhiz tried to remove under spurious pretenses. With sources. THAT IS WHY I UNDID IT. But Icewhiz pretends that my edit was something else, that it was all about labeling a person as "Jewish" (in fact I couldn't give a toss). Note that in the edit summary, I specifically requested Icewhiz to address specific concerns on talk. If he really was so "deeply concerned", then he could've said on talk "I don't think the person's ethnicity is relevant here", and I would have agreed. Instead he brought it up here. I'm sorry but there is no other way to describe this kind of misrepresentation except as dishonest. And the whole "deeply concerning" language is a weaselly insinuation which, if I understand correctly what he is trying to imply here, I take very serious offense at. If you want me to state bluntly what I think Icewhiz is trying to accuse-me-while-pretending-not-to-accuse-me off I can be explicit.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:06, 31 May 2019 (UTC) The content was legit and sourced. The only reason for Icewhiz to blank most of the article is... I don't know. Again, if his issue was with the fact that the article mentioned the subject was Jewish then, as I said, he could've 1) explained that on talk or 2) removed JUST THAT PART. He did neither. Instead he came here and falsely pretended that my edit's sole purpose was to violate WP:MOSETHNICITY. Now he's inventing new excuses (there were deadlinks!) but these excuses only highlight the fact that his original accusation was false.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:32, 31 May 2019 (UTC) @El C: I also have no idea why Icewhiz is bringing up (third sentence, his last comment) edits made by someone else which were made somewhere else and eight freaking years ago, in fact on an article that I have never edited (afaik) and pretending that I had something to do with that. This is more baseless insinuation of some sort, trying to pretend that I'm responsible for something ... or other.Volunteer Marek (talk) 04:36, 31 May 2019 (UTC) "VM's revert at 07:00, 30 May 2019 - was preceded by 06:59, 30 May 2019 on Lozisht (...) - 1 minute apart (...) It is exceedingly unlikely that VM vetted the content he was restoring " - oh ffs, there is such a thing as having more than one browser tab open. As I type this I have 48 tabs open in three windows, with 22 of them being Wikipedia, and 4 of them being edits-in-process, which I have open while I am "vetting" the edit/sources. Is it not obvious how inane and bad faithed these kinds of accusations are? Like this is suppose to sanctionable? And to be sure - ALL of Icewhiz diffs in this request consist of absurd stuff like this. But hey, at least Icewhiz is "civil" when he makes these ridiculous accusations.Volunteer Marek (talk) 07:31, 31 May 2019 (UTC) And I'm sorry, but wtf is this??? Did I edit the article on Chuck Schumer or something? Icewhiz's sentence appears to imply that I did. I didn't. What the hell does this have to do with anything here? User:Black Kite? User:El_C? Can someone explain this to me? No? Then please rein him the hey in because this is getting into straight up smears territory.Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:00, 31 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Sir JosephWe see VM here often enough, in several different subject areas, but in this case we see several diffs that are clearly actionable that are either blockable or are at the very least worthy of a TBAN and I don't think we need to wait for a full on ARBCOM case to settle this. Sir Joseph (talk) 18:05, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
As for the ANI thread, as it points out, there seems to be this disturbing fascination with a specific topic. And I do urge some admin to visit that ANI thread and start using a fishing net and throw out TBANs. While one person was oversight blocked, that is not enough. There is a resurgence of a POV that is making its way into Wikipedia that we need to stop fast. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:25, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Statement by François RobereQuestion to admins: Is WP:NPA policy? If so, why is it consistently ignored?
François Robere (talk) 18:46, 30 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000Instead of just looking at VM's statements to Icewhiz, one should consider whether VM's charges of bias have a solid basis. The fact is that VM is the only editor with the energy to counter Icewhiz's dedicated moulding of the entire Polish/Jewish area. Zerotalk 22:23, 30 May 2019 (UTC) An arbcom case for this would be appropriate, but it should be presented as an examination of the behavior of all the main editors in the Polish/Jewish area, not as a case by one of them against another of them. For that reason I think it would be best if an uninvolved administrator opened it. Zerotalk 02:07, 31 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by MJL@Volunteer Marek: For your convenience: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#MOS:ETHNICITY on articles about Polish Jews (permalink). –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 00:24, 31 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by Piotrus1) The peanut gallery concern expressed in the admin section below is certainly an issue, as some comments here (yes, including mine) are clearly from editors 'with a side'. But it is worth nothing that some of those sides are not about the Polish-Jewish topics, ex. the comment by editor above me comes from someone who to the best of my knowledge never edited PJ topics, and probably has sparred with VM over another topic area, hence their suggestion to escalate the proposed remedy (topic ban) more widely. Peanut gallery indeed. There is some merit in trying to get an ArbCom that would look into what's been going in with this topic area, because there is also merit in saying that the Polish Jewish topic area was stable for many years (with occasional edits from VM) until a ~year ago when two editors (Ice and FR) made their appearance. Which was, to some degree, helpful (I do find some articles have been improved, through I have mixed feelings about a few) - but, for better or worse, did upset this topic area, which was not a WP:BATTLEGROUND until that point. 2) I've been always supportive of WP:NPA, and as much as I often tend to agree with VM POV I also can't say I always agree with the way he words things. Nonetheless, although I doubt that many admins will care of something that's more targeted rather then a nuke-level remedy, I've found in the past (~10 years) ago that interaction bans (WP:IBAN) are a good solution. I don't think there are any problems with VM content edit (outside an occasional edit summary); they all fit in the realm of regular content dispute and general 1RR and BDR. His talk contributions are, however, less constructive; to what degree there is baiting involved (and any boomerang issues), I don't feel competent to judge (as I am also a party in some of those discussions). But IF there is anything actionable in this, I'd think an IBAN would be more appropriate than a TBAN, since the issue is not about content, but about discussion attitude. 3) It is important to review diffs. Ex. the accusation of racism and such in [49] made by the op seems IMHO rather spurious. Yes, VM did say in his edit summary "rmv POV, rmv gratuitous stereotyping and ethnic generalizations" but clearly, he did not say this about an editor, but about content - he just removed the text " the stereotyping of Jews in Poland is widespread, particularly so in the church" which can, indeed, be argued to meet the description in his diff. I don't have time (and likely, word limit) to review other diffs here, but if this is one of the best (and the OR/V sections are pure content dispute, not fit for AE), then there's not that much here to see. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:01, 31 May 2019 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Volunteer Marek
I don't mind continuing to respond to queries here, but as mentioned in my opener, this may be more suited for Arbitration (as much as we may want to lighten the Committee's workload). Three other admins appear even more conclusive about that, so it looks like this is what's gonna end up happening. El_C 17:55, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
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