Wikipedia talk:Did you know

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Special occasion idea: Olympics

Discussion on Olympics

Extended content

Remembering that we did themed sets for the FIFA Women's World Cup last year, I thought of an idea for a themed set of hooks: the 2024 Summer Olympics take place from July 26 to August 11 this year (in a little over five weeks) and I think there will probably be a decent number of Olympics-related hooks; I at least plan to write a good number of them. I was thinking we might be able to do something like one Olympics hook per day for the duration of the event, similar to how we did for the FIFA World Cup. Thoughts? BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:16, 20 June 2024 (UTC) Indeed. I coordinated something like that for the last Olympics and had been planning on offering that service once more. Schwede66 21:22, 20 June 2024 (UTC) Cool idea! Lightburst (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2024 (UTC) I also like this idea! I know of a couple topics that could provide Olympics-related hooks; I'll look into them. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 22:58, 20 June 2024 (UTC) I've dug out the item that shows how we went about it last time: Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 180#Olympic hooks. Schwede66 22:26, 20 June 2024 (UTC) That looks like work @Schwede66:! Hopefully we can identify a few. Bruxton (talk) 01:04, 21 June 2024 (UTC) It was somewhat involved! Schwede66 01:27, 21 June 2024 (UTC) Some related considerations: Can I suggest that we pull Solomon Islands at the 2020 Summer Olympics out of Prep7 Prep6 and run it just prior to the Paris Olympics kicking off? Moved to the Olympics: Special occasion holding area. Other candidates for a warmup are articles relating to the 2024 Winter Youth Olympics, which were held at the beginning of 2024. Template:Did you know nominations/Yang Jingru (speed skater) is one such article. Done – added to the table below. The 2024 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres hurdles nomination names Femke Bol, who is set to compete for the Netherlands at the 2024 Summer Olympics. In fact, we have another nomination (a double nomination at that) that includes Femke Bol: 2022 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres Done – added to the table below. All the Olympic-related hooks that I could spot are in the table below. Schwede66 03:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC) My Toby Olubi hook is in prep 3. Feel free to pull if it's of any use to you.--Launchballer 06:58, 25 June 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: I don't know if you saw this, but my Toby Olubi hook is Olympics-related, and could also run near the start of the Olympics.--Launchballer 11:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC) No, I didn’t see that. I’ll have a look. Schwede66 13:06, 27 June 2024 (UTC) I've pulled it out of Q3 and plugged the hole that I've made. Schwede66 23:36, 27 June 2024 (UTC) RoySmith, no, that was not a copy-paste error. It's a note for the promoting admin that the admin checks had previously been done. Schwede66 00:42, 20 July 2024 (UTC) I don't think this is a good idea. If I were to promote that set, I'd run all the checks anyway. Partly because I have a work flow, and partly because if I'm going to publish something over my signature, I'm going to satisfy myself that it's correct. So all you've done by adding this note would be to create additional work for me because I'd have to figure out what's going on and then edit the hook to get rid of the note. RoySmith (talk) 00:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC) @Hey man im josh: As the one who promoted, do you think you might be able pull Dylan Travis (Q6) so that it could be featured when basketball takes place at the Olympics? BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC) @BeanieFan11: I'm still feeling pretty green at DYK so I'd prefer for someone else to take care of this if possible. I'm also out and won't be on PC tonight to take care of this. I have no objections to it though. Hey man im josh (talk) 21:49, 27 June 2024 (UTC) Note that this should be a subsection within the existing special occasion section, not a separate section. I have adjusted accordingly. I don't understand why the Solomon Islands hook—not shown above but in the section itself—is listed for the day before the Olympics starts; it looks like one that could run any time during the actual Olympics, which the article on the games lists as July 26 through August 11. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:38, 28 June 2024 (UTC) I’ll add it to the table. Things got somewhat crowded last time, hence my thinking of running everything that’s not 2024 Olympics as a warmup beforehand. Schwede66 19:18, 28 June 2024 (UTC) BlueMoonset, I can see where the confusion arises. As explained above, the Olympic competitions start on 24 July, two days prior to the opening ceremony. Schwede66 04:15, 29 June 2024 (UTC) Schwede66, in that case the lede of the article is wrong. It should be made clear there that while the opening ceremony is on 26 July, the competition itself begins on 24 July. No objection to the Solomon Islands hook running on 25 July if the Olympics themselves have already begun by then; I see no reason why it can't run during the Olympics themselves on a date where there isn't anything more appropriate. I don't think it should be a "warmup" hook, however. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:11, 30 June 2024 (UTC) I've put the line "the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit" into action and amended the lead of the 2024 Summer Olympics to spell out that some competitions start on 24 July. I'm easy about running "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" during the Olympics if there's room if that's what others prefer; I note we have three four five of those hooks. Schwede66 03:41, 30 June 2024 (UTC) Ok, it's not too crowded this time (yet). I'll move the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks to show during the Olympics. Schwede66 05:59, 8 July 2024 (UTC) I shall eat my words. It's getting rather crowded; should have started running the warmup hooks earlier including the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics". I don't think that we'll have a chance of limiting the sets to two Olympic hooks even if we shuffle things around; it seems we'll have more than two on average for the duration of the Olympics. Schwede66 00:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC) I'm not sure if we really should have Template:Did you know nominations/Breaking Through (2022 film) run as part of the Olympics run since it deals with the Winter Olympics rather than the Summer Olympics. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:37, 8 July 2024 (UTC) Do others share that concern? I don't think that Summer versus Winter Olympics is a big stretch. I note that there are four Winter Olympics hooks in the table above. The other thought is that any hook will have to run at some point, so why not have Olympic-adjacent hooks run just before the Summer Olympics? Schwede66 10:42, 8 July 2024 (UTC) Just noting here that Zhang Ziyu has been nominated. Whilst she does play basketball and China is competing in that discipline at in Paris, she's not (yet?) a member of the China women's national basketball team. Hence, we could use this as another warmup hook. Schwede66 05:01, 7 July 2024 (UTC) Could somebody please review Draft:Adam Maraana? The review could double as a QPQ, as the intention of the IP editor is to have this run as part of the Olympics. Schwede66 06:15, 8 July 2024 (UTC) Red-tailed hawk, is there a good reason why you pulled the Solomon Islands at the 2020 Summer Olympics hook out of the special occasion holding area (SOHA) and put it into prep 4? Because if there isn't a good reason, I'd like to see this reverted. Schwede66 00:49, 11 July 2024 (UTC) I don’t think it was ever in the special occasion holding area. But I have no objection if you’d like to place it there. — Red-tailed sock (Red-tailed hawk's nest) 01:14, 11 July 2024 (UTC) Some of the Olympic hooks need a bit more attention from reviewers, or nominators are dragging the chain with QPQs. For example, Prep 1 is already filled but there's still one hook that awaits its QPQ. Prep 2 is filling up but a review for this nomination hasn't even been started yet. I'd be happy to do some shuffling but there's nothing really to shuffle this with; further down, the hooks are all timed for particular occasions. Shifting items back into the Olympics proper is also tricky as almost all days have two or three items already. I'd most appreciate if those who can stand reviewing sports articles can give this some attention. Schwede66 09:32, 16 July 2024 (UTC) Unless I'm missing something, the only Olympic hook in prep 1 is my Toby Olubi hook, for which the supplied QPQ (Claude Hamilton Verity) was also a double nom?--Launchballer 13:15, 16 July 2024 (UTC) No, you are all good, Launchballer. What isn't good is the Zhang Ziyu nomination. I'm not sure why the reviewer isn't signing off on it. Could someone else please check that the remaining issue ("sources vary") has been dealt with to satisfaction? This should go into Prep 1, and I've just made a hole for it (the prep set was already full). Schwede66 21:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: Ticked off whenever.--Launchballer 10:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC) Awesome. Thanks, Launchballer. I've once more made a hole in Prep1 for Template:Did you know nominations/Zhang Ziyu to be promoted to; can't do it myself as I was involved in coming up with ALT1. Would appreciate if somebody could do the honours and promote this. Schwede66 18:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC) If I'm reading that correctly, your only contribution was to add in 'at least', which was BeanieFan's suggestion anyway, and to swap cm and inches, which adds no extra information. I wouldn't say you was involved.--Launchballer 21:38, 17 July 2024 (UTC) Well, maybe I wasn't – I'm just trying to make sure to not even give the impression of INVOLVED. Either way, Bruxton has filled that gap once more. Schwede66 22:29, 17 July 2024 (UTC) I have queried, at Zhang Ziyu's nomination, why an article on an athlete who is not participating and has not participated in an Olympics is part of this "drive" and needs to run on 24 July. Looking at this comment, it seems that the original expectation was for very few hooks to come in and lots of supplementary hooks to have to be used, but now we're overflowing with hooks! From the table below, it seems that some days are now scheduled to have three Olympics hooks run, which is over the maximum of two per set. Why can't some of them be moved to run earlier? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:25, 17 July 2024 (UTC) You appear to be keen to obstruct that Zhang Ziyu not be promoted to Prep1, therefore practically pushing it into later sets. How does that align with your desire to bring other Olympic-related hooks forward? Isn't that a contradiction? Schwede66 22:31, 17 July 2024 (UTC) Zhang Ziyu is not Olympics-related, along with many other sports nominations which won't be run until after the Olympics are over because of WP:DYKVAR (1, 2, 3 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10). I have also noticed and tagged new Olympics-related nominations which aren't in the table yet, such as Template:Did you know nominations/Lê Đức Phát, and more will surely appear shortly. It seems very foolish to prioritise including Zhang Ziyu, who will not compete at the Olympics, when this drive has nominations ready to be prepped on people who actually are competing! I can bet that by the end of this, we will be looking at an entire set of hooks for the final day. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:07, 17 July 2024 (UTC) Today's main page was significantly unbalanced and I've addressed that by removing one OTD hook and adding a tenth DYK hook, for which I chose Zhang Ziyu. I've issued the credits manually; I did all this some 15 minutes after midnight UTC. Schwede66 01:40, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Here's a summary of how many hooks we've got, and when they are scheduled to run (note that the table has been shifted to the section "Help needed"): As can be seen: There are three days when we have three hooks. Two of those three-a-day sets occur when all prior sets have two hooks, i.e. there is nothing we can do about it (other than delaying for the third hook to run until after the scheduled day). The third occasion of a three-a-day set is on 10 August, and there are currently three days (4, 8, and 9 Aug) when one of those hooks could run early. Given how it's going, I would expect that we get more nominations, and those one-a-day sets may get busier. Therefore, we have to agree whether we would be happy with three Olympic-related hooks per set. Delaying Olympic-related hooks that are already approved is definitely not helping. Schwede66 22:49, 17 July 2024 (UTC) For the record, and having thought about it overnight, I would be happy with three Olympic hooks so long as they are adequately separated, so long as they are all Olympic-related. I think two Olympic hooks and a non-Olympic sports hook is a tougher ask. The Zhang Ziyu nomination is less than two weeks old, I don't think there's any danger of it timing out. Happy to hear alternative perspectives on this.--Launchballer 11:37, 18 July 2024 (UTC) SL93, Lorrane Oliveira was for Prep6, not Prep5. Schwede66 00:43, 18 July 2024 (UTC) Schwede66 It was under the special occasion list with a date of July 28 which is prep 5. SL93 (talk) 00:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) My mistake. Prep5 is right. I had recorded it wrongly in my table ... Schwede66 01:44, 18 July 2024 (UTC) We currently have four hooks for 29 July / Prep6; this is the next prep set that will become available. That sounds too many, however, only one of those hooks is currently at SOHA. One hook, a swimmer starting for Israel, hasn't had the review started yet. There may well be a reluctance to "touch" anything Israel, so this might not make it. The two other hooks are both awaiting BeanieFan11 to provide a QPQ. Thus, at this point in time, we only have one viable hook from four candidates. When Prep6 becomes available, I'll thus bring one of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks forward so that we've at least got two hooks to go. Schwede66 20:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC) BTW if you need logistical support, I'm lurking. Kingsif (talk) 20:30, 18 July 2024 (UTC) Of the four hooks for 29 July, one of them is Suriname at the 1960 Summer Olympics, which can run on any day. I think that one should run on a different day.--Launchballer 21:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC) That is true, but it's currently the only hook that's ready. As it's a "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hook, it's not a good idea to bring another one of this type forward into that set, though. If the three hooks aren't ready, we can always run Template:Did you know nominations/Zhang Ziyu as the second hook if someone wanted to sign that off. Schwede66 23:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC) BTW, one other from that date has been marked ready (Victor Alvares de Oliveira). BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC) July 30 will have two "first" hooks (Alyssa Mendoza is in prep 7, and Andy Barat is in SOHA). Do we really want two such hooks in the same prep, even if they are fully verified? SL93 (talk) 21:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC) Thanks for your comment, SL93. The bigger concern that I have is that we have way too many Olympic hooks for 30 July. Here's the two hooks in question: ... that Alyssa Mendoza is Idaho's first Olympic boxer? (already in prep) ... that Andy Barat is the first Olympic canoeist for the Comoros? (in SOHA) Shall we combine those into one hook? Two options, with ALT1a less EGGy: ALT1 ... that Alyssa Mendoza and Andy Barat are the first Olympic representatives of their sport for their state and country, respectively? ALT1a ... that Alyssa Mendoza and Andy Barat are the first Olympic representatives of their sport for their state and country, respectively? What do you all think? Schwede66 00:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC) I like that idea. SL93 (talk) 02:21, 22 July 2024 (UTC) If we were to do that, we'd get the nominations for 30 July from five to four. As I suggested the combined hook, I'd feel more comfortable if someone else copied it into Prep7. Four Olympic hooks is still one too many. We have two nominations for triathlon (Shachar Sagiv and Matthew Wright) but I just cannot think of a good double hook for them. The two hooks that are signed off are those that we can combine into one. If the other three hooks all get signed off in time, I suggest we need to cull one of them. I suggest that be the hook for Matthew Wright as it was nominated significantly later than the one for Sagiv (20 July and 11 June, respectively). Just putting this out here for transparency; whilst I did not write the Sagiv article (an IP did), I did nominate it. Schwede66 02:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC) Pinging nominator of both the proposed double hook and Matthew Wright (triathlete). BeanieFan11. SL93 (talk) 17:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC) Fine with merging the two hooks (Mendoza / Barat). I could withdraw Wright if necessary. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:25, 23 July 2024 (UTC) We have consensus for ALT1 or ALT1a. Could somebody who is uninvolved please do the honours and edit the Mendoza hook in Prep7 and add Barat to the mix? Schwede66 06:13, 23 July 2024 (UTC) BeanieFan11, as yet, nobody has started reviewing Shachar Sagiv's article. Sit tight; Wright might still make it. Schwede66 06:21, 23 July 2024 (UTC) I promoted it. I am slightly involved, but I boldly acted on it because it doesn't seem worthwhile to wait because it might mess up other prep builders who haven't read this far into the discussion. SL93 (talk) 13:44, 23 July 2024 (UTC) Thanks for doing that, SL93. Much appreciated. I've seen that you have since filled the last few spots in Prep 6. Did you see that the Suriname hook is still in the SOHA for that set? Schwede66 23:14, 23 July 2024 (UTC) Schwede66 I was planning on moving one for it once a hook is approved for it. It doesn't look like there is an agreement. SL93 (talk) 23:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC) Ah, I see. I didn't read that as there not being consensus; I thought we were just fine-tuning. I wonder whether Arcahaeoindris as reviewer is equally unaware / mis-reading the situation that it requires a further sign off? Schwede66 23:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC) I can promote one of the hooks now if you can point it out. I can't tell which hook version it would be. SL93 (talk) 23:32, 23 July 2024 (UTC) Sachar Sagiv (nom) has just been signed off. It was scheduled as the third Olympic hook for Prep 7 if someone would like to promote that before this gets promoted to become Q7 (it's next up). Kingsif? Schwede66 03:37, 26 July 2024 (UTC) Just noting here that I merged the Sagiv and Matthew Wright hooks into one - my merged hook used nothing but information from two approved hooks, so this should be okay.--Launchballer 01:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC) Schwede66 Should Philippines at the 1924 Summer Olympics be on August 2 (like in this list) or August 3 (like in SOHA). SL93 (talk) 21:43, 24 July 2024 (UTC) I've made a space in prep for it. It's nearly five in the morning where I am so I'm probably too groggy to promote it properly, but that should tell a prep-to-queuer to back off for a few hours. (Does nominating on the IP's behalf make you involved? I don't think it does.)--Launchballer 03:53, 26 July 2024 (UTC) You can shuffle the "foo at the yyyy…" hooks around at will, SL93. It doesn’t matter when they run. Looking at the table, there are currently two hooks for each of those days, so I would go with that. Schwede66 22:49, 24 July 2024 (UTC) As for the prep 6 hook, that prep is now in queue 6. SL93 (talk) 21:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC) I have updated the list here wrt prep/queue 6. If I was to make a personal call on the Philippines article, though I imagine the disparity doesn't need immediately addressing because prep builders won't get there for a few days, I would say August 2 as otherwise (per this list) those two days would be unbalanced in number of Olympics hooks. Kingsif (talk) 22:28, 24 July 2024 (UTC) The 1924 Philippines article seems a shoo-in for a non-that hook, like last month's most successful hook. Maybe something like "why the Philippines held two flags at the opening ceremony of the 1924 Summer Olympics?"--Launchballer 13:39, 25 July 2024 (UTC) Would we rather that, or the Liechtenstein hook to be "... why Liechtenstein decided to use a different flag in the opening ceremony of the 1936 Summer Olympics?" (would also mean more difference between it and the previous Haiti one) If neither of Philippines/Liechtenstein is set to run soon, we could workshop it. Kingsif (talk) 22:16, 25 July 2024 (UTC) Why not both? These can run on any day, so just keep them well apart.--Launchballer 01:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Proposal

Extended content

The Paris Olympics will be kicking off on 26 July 2024 with an opening ceremony in the early evening. Event competitions start two days earlier on 24 July with association football and rugby sevens. The closing ceremony (article yet to be written!) is on 11 August. That's 19 days of Olympics and as suggested above, we could run Solomon Islands at the 2020 Summer Olympics as a warmup just before that period. There'll be some special date requests coming in and to avoid filling up individual hook sets with too much sport, I suggest we co-ordinate what will run when to spread things out in a logical fashion. I suspect that we'll stay in a 24-hour cycle for the duration of the event but if that changes, we can accommodate that as well. Time zone–wise, Paris is currently at UTC+02:00 (Central European Summer Time or CEST), hence there are no mental gymnastics necessary as long as we stay in the 24-hour cycle. Comments welcome. Helpers are welcome and essential; I certainly don't want to do this all by myself as this was quite a bit of work some three years ago for the Tokyo Olympics. And with regards to my own special interests, I shall tell you that the Kiwi rowers are in good shape; I can hear the medals clinking already! Schwede66 01:20, 23 June 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: I can get the hooks as long as you help figuring out the schedule (in addition to the two of mine mentioned below, I also have pending Dylan Travis and Alyssa Mendoza that I need to work on, and am preparing to nominate (haven't yet) Evann Girault and Emmanuella Atora; I also created Maia Weintraub but I can't think of a good hook...). BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC) For Weintraub, the best that I can come up with is: that after having been an unused alternate at the Tokyo Olympics, Maia Weintraub is now qualified for fencing at the Paris Olympics? That probably won't be seen as interesting enough. I'll deal with the other articles; thanks for your good work. Schwede66 20:15, 23 June 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: Have four more Olympics hooks for you: Gaku Akazawa, Alasan Ann, Aminata Barrow, Andy Barat. Have two others I will nominate soon as well. I also created Camil Doua but can't think of a good hook... BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:19, 8 July 2024 (UTC) Good effort! I've dropped a hook suggestion for Camil Doua onto his talk page. Schwede66 02:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: Another hook of mine in Marcedes Walker. I also wrote Ruby Remati, which I'm trying to figure out a good hook for... David Eppstein also nominated one in Piper Kelly so you're aware. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:26, 10 July 2024 (UTC) ... that Ruby Remati got into synchronized swimming because as a child, she fancied the competitors' sparkly suits? Schwede66 00:33, 11 July 2024 (UTC) Nominated: Template:Did you know nominations/Ruby Remati. Thanks for the suggestion. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:40, 11 July 2024 (UTC) One more: Template:Did you know nominations/Jenya Kazbekova —David Eppstein (talk) 18:46, 11 July 2024 (UTC) Keep them coming! Schwede66 10:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: Three more of mine: Kennedy Blades, Filomenaleonisa Iakopo, Emily Ausmus (also wrote Jovana Sekulic, in case you can come up with a good hook). I noticed three others as well that are by other users: Zheng Haohao, Angling at the 1900 Summer Olympics and Aniya Holder. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC) Thanks! Can't think of anything interesting for Sekulic. Schwede66 00:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: Nominated another in Template:Did you know nominations/Edda Hannesdóttir. Also, SuperJew wrote a nice article on footballer Omer Nir'on: can you think of a good hook for it? BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:39, 17 July 2024 (UTC) Thanks, BeanieFan11. I've processed Hannesdóttir but can't think of a good hook for Nir'on. Chances are that his Danish grandparents had to leave Denmark during WWII and if so, that connection and him also being able to play for Denmark could yield a viable hook. But SuperJew would have to do more work on that aspect. Schwede66 03:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC) Tried to have a look. Can't find anything about his grandparents having to leave, and even added that his father played for a Danish club in 1996-97. It seems the main reason Denmark (national team and the Danish club) were interested in trialling him and offering a contract is because of his heritage and if he was a regular visa/foreigner they wouldn't have bothered. It's an interesting saying on how heritage (one might even say luck) can open up doors. I'm not sure about how to word it though as a DYK and I understand if it's a bit too vague for a viable hook. --SuperJew (talk) 09:56, 17 July 2024 (UTC) @BeanieFan11 and Schwede66: Here's an interesting switch. Nir'on was promoted today from alternate player to the regular 18-player squad for the Olympics due to an injury to Daniel Peretz. It's also interesting that his first big chance in the U21 level was due to Peretz withdrawing (was called-up to the senior team). I think that could make an interesting hook if worded well. --SuperJew (talk) 19:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC) I agree, SuperJew. Nominate it and if what you come up looks interesting, I'll add it to the Olympics set. Schwede66 20:04, 18 July 2024 (UTC) @SuperJew and Schwede66: Maybe something like this? ... that Omer Nir'on became a member of the Israel national under-21 football team due to Daniel Peretz withdrawing, and became a member of the Israel Olympic team due to Daniel Peretz withdrawing? BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:14, 20 July 2024 (UTC) SuperJew, that works. Nominate it. Schwede66 05:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: You can add a few more of mine to the list: Template:Did you know nominations/Lê Đức Phát; Template:Did you know nominations/María Sara Grippoli; Template:Did you know nominations/Apsara Sakbun; and Template:Did you know nominations/Victor Alvares de Oliveira. More if we can come up with good hooks for Ariana Dirkzwager, Viren Nettasinghe and Chloë Farro BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:13, 17 July 2024 (UTC) Thanks; I have processed those. No suitable hooks come to mind for the other three articles. Schwede66 04:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: I don't know how many will make it on time or if I'll be able to do all the QPQs in time, but I've got four more nominations: Template:Did you know nominations/Logan Edra, Template:Did you know nominations/Warren Lawrence, Template:Did you know nominations/Matthew Wright (triathlete), Template:Did you know nominations/Valentin Houinato. Could nominate Adrian Weinberg and Jess Davis (modern pentathlete) if we could develop good hooks as well. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Oh dear. Things are getting really crowded! BeanieFan11, I've noticed that many of your sports bios are flagbearers. Shall we go for a mass hook hook to get rid of many individual nominations as possible? Something like so: ALT0: ... that Camil Doua, Edda Hannesdóttir, and Lê Đức Phát are flagbearers at today's Olympic opening ceremony? ALT1: ... that Camil Doua, Chloë Farro, María Sara Grippoli, Edda Hannesdóttir, Viren Nettasinghe, and Lê Đức Phát are flagbearers at today's Olympic opening ceremony? If that sounds like a good idea, could you please identify the flagbearers, BeanieFan11? We would be aiming for Prep 3, and Camil Doua is in that set for the reason of being her country's flagbearer. Amended – have since figured who the flagbearers are and I think there's three of them. Two of them have yet to be reviewed; volunteers welcome. Schwede66 02:15, 20 July 2024 (UTC) There are also Viren Nettasinghe and Chloë Farro, who are flagbearers, their articles are new, but you haven't nominated them, BeanieFan11. And I've just found María Sara Grippoli. Schwede66 08:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Help needed. Could we please have reviewers for Template:Did you know nominations/María Sara Grippoli, Template:Did you know nominations/Edda Hannesdóttir, and Template:Did you know nominations/Lê Đức Phát? It would really help if we could get rid of a few hooks by combining them into one and for that to work and be relevant, they should go into Prep 3. Kingsif, you were asking whether there's something where you could help. Well, here's something that would be super helpful. Schwede66 11:05, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Help needed – updated. All the urgent reviews (five of them) are now part of one nomination: Template:Did you know nominations/Viren Nettasinghe. Schwede66 20:33, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Reviewed, approved. I'll give it a few hours for the bot to move it to the approved page, then move it to SOHA if nobody beats me to it. Kingsif (talk) 23:26, 20 July 2024 (UTC) I don't know ... if I'll be able to do all the QPQs in time – maybe focus on QPQs for a wee while instead of writing further bios, BeanieFan11. Schwede66 02:49, 20 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: How about this: we put Doua as a standalone hook when he competes (I really like that hook), and merge all the other flagbearers into the hook to be featured at the opening ceremony date – that'd include Hannesdottir, Duc Phat, Nettasinghe, Grippoli, and Farro (and might write one or two more today – as well as get the QPQs). Alright? BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC) I'm ok with leaving Doua out of the mass hook as we have a rather cool ALT for him. I don't think it's a good idea at all you writing more bios for Prep3; that's already open, you have a ton out outstanding QPQs (please concentrate on those), and we need reviewers. I just can't see this all getting reviewed in time, BeanieFan11. Schwede66 19:43, 20 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: So, for the mass hook, should I nominate Farro or Nettasinghe (with the four others) right now and I guess we'll try to get someone to review? BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:49, 20 July 2024 (UTC) Yes, please do. Schwede66 19:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: Template:Did you know nominations/Viren Nettasinghe. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:57, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Help needed

Suggested date	Q / Prep	Hooks 18 Jul	Hooks 19 Jul	Hooks 21 Jul	Hooks 3 Aug
21-Jul	Queue5	2	2	2
22-Jul	Queue6	2	2	2
23-Jul	Queue7	2	2	2
24-Jul	Queue1	2	2	2
25-Jul	Queue2	2	2	2
26-Jul	Queue3	2	2	3
27-Jul	Queue4	2	2	2
28-Jul	Queue5	3	3	3
29-Jul	Queue6	2	4	3
30-Jul	Queue7	3	3	5
31-Jul	Queue1	3	3	2
1-Aug	Queue2	2	2	3
2-Aug	Queue3	2	2	2
3-Aug	Queue4	2	3	2	4
4-Aug	Queue5	1	2	2	3
5-Aug	Queue6	2	2	1	3
6-Aug	Queue7	2	2	1	2
7-Aug	Prep1	2	2	1	2
8-Aug	Prep2	1	1	1	3
9-Aug	Prep3	1	1	2	2
10-Aug	Prep4	3	3	3	3

Extended content

Just a heads up that I've got a week of little available time coming up: I may be out for most of tomorrow (Wed, 24 Jul) I will be out for all of Thu, 25 Jul I will have limited availability on Fri, 26 Jul I will be out for all of Sat and Sun, 27&28 Jul I will have limited availability on Mon, 29 Jul I will be out for all of Tue, 30 Jul I may be out for most of Wed, 31 Jul After that, things should be back to normal. Hence, it might be a good idea if others take the lead. Kingsif, you were asking whether there's something where you could help – here's your chance. Last time, Joseph2302 did a lot of good work – would you be interested to step up? What needs doing? Here's a hopefully complete list: Respond to new nominations if they come up and slot them into a logical spot in the table below, but it would also be fine to say "thanks, but no thanks – it's too late in the process". That's up to you. On Template talk:Did you know/Approved, move items from their spot to the SOHA Once a day, I update the status items in the table below: items will go from prep to queue, or will have been published on the main page items will go from "Review not yet started" to "under review" to "At SOHA" in the column "prep set", add new preps as they become available Keep an eye on nominations that move close to prep sets becoming available and encourage those who are involved in getting on with it. For example, there are about half a dozen QPQs outstanding and nudging usually results in action. Shuffle things around in prep if needed; encourage promoters to put things into prep if you don't want to do it yourself. Ping admins if things need to move around in queue. If I think of anything else, I'll add that to the list. It's reasonably late in the process (the first competitions will start tomorrow) and all the structural issues are sorted. It just needs some low-level maintenance at this point. Schwede66 23:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC) Wow, that's a lot of work, I'm impressed you've handled it all yourself so far. I can probably manage a daily check of new nominations and promoting hooks to newly available preps. Kingsif (talk) 23:50, 22 July 2024 (UTC) Thanks, Kingsif. Yes, that is a lot, but it's be much less work now than it was in the beginning. Anyway, if you haven't got time for everything, I suggest the following two priority items: Place approved noms into the special occasion holding area Update the table so that there's an overview for prep builders, yourself, etc I'd say that new nominations is the least important part. As it stands, we have enough. To accommodate more, you'd have to look around which hooks can be merged, which requires thinking time, much reading, discussion, i.e. a lot of work is involved in that. Schwede66 23:19, 23 July 2024 (UTC) I'll get my around the table but got it. Kingsif (talk) 00:36, 24 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66 and Kingsif: There are four more noms on T:TDYK: Sunny Choi, Sarah Levy (rugby union), Hadi Tiranvalipour, and Iman Mahdavi. Choi should roll on 9 August which isn't open yet, but I don't quite know when the rugby player and the two refugees should roll. If you can review, I can promote.--Launchballer 00:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC) I've dealt with Sunny Choi (nom). It needs another editor to review ALT2 that I suggested. Schwede66 08:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC) All noms are now in the table. I've also done a big reshuffle and brought noms that are signed off and not date-sensitive forward to create as much breathing room towards the later part of the Olympics. Someone needs to sign off on a hook for Template:Did you know nominations/1964 Summer Olympics medal table and once done, that can go into Prep6. Schwede66 10:50, 31 July 2024 (UTC) I've ticked that one off.--Launchballer 11:04, 31 July 2024 (UTC) @Schwede66: Just nominated Kim Ye-ji (sport shooter). I suspect it would be a mad dash to get her in for tomorrow (although there is a 'foo at the Olympic Games' hook that could be swapped out), but she might be useful to run on the date of the closing ceremony. (She literally went viral a couple of days ago.)--Launchballer 10:53, 1 August 2024 (UTC) Reviewer needed for Template:Did you know nominations/Kim Ye-ji (sport shooter). There are loads of cool hooks in store. Schwede66 11:37, 1 August 2024 (UTC) Reviewed. Kingsif (talk) 22:03, 1 August 2024 (UTC) Nice! Alright, when are we running this?--Launchballer 23:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC) I've put the "coolest person on the planet" into Q5; admin checks done. Have a look at this video of her breaking the world record. Amazing demeanour. Schwede66 00:19, 2 August 2024 (UTC) Hadi Tiranvalipour (nom) is supposed to be in prep 1, which is the next prep to be moved to queue. Problem is that the review hasn't been started yet. Any takers? Schwede66 00:44, 2 August 2024 (UTC)  Done Kingsif (talk) 02:37, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Ada Korkhin (nom) is a rather late nomination. It's worth getting this one into the system because it comes with a stunner of a hook! Schwede66 11:42, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Now at SOHA – thanks, team! Schwede66 01:14, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

@Schwede66: Probably too short notice, but might as well ask: would it be possible to feature Template:Did you know nominations/Jamal Valizadeh on August 5? BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, there are already three Olympics hooks in Queue 6, but 1964 Summer Olympics medal table doesn't have to run on that date and can be shifted back. All it needs at this point is a new reviewer for ALT1, as the reviewer suggested that hook, and then it's good to go. I'm happy to do the admin checks and promote it, BeanieFan11. Schwede66 01:09, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

And another late candidate for 7 August: Jesse Grupper (nom) Schwede66 09:02, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Olympic hooks table

On the "Approved" page, there is now a heading Olympics: Special occasion holding area.

Hooks that have been published, not including current MP

Article (nom) Requested Suggested date Prep set Notes (all times in CEST) Status 2024 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres hurdles (nom) none 21 July Queue 5 This hook names Femke Bol who is due to compete in Paris. We have a second (double-)hook that names here, hence I suggest we run this as the first warm-up hook to put as much time between the two appearance of Bol as possible. This would lend itself as the picture hook as we've got a good photo. published Breaking Through (2022 film) (nom) none 21 July Queue5 The film deals with real events around the 2002 Winter Olympics, hence it's an ideal warmup hook. published Zali Steggall (nom) none 22 July Queue 6 1998 Olympic skier published Ri Jong-yol (nom) none 22 July Queue6 One of the warm-up hooks; can run on any date before the Olympics start published Yang Jingru (speed skater) (nom) none 23 July Queue 7 One of the warm-up hooks; can run on any date before the Olympics start. published René Heyde (nom) none 23 July Queue7 One of the warm-up hooks; can run on any date before the Olympics start. published Toby Olubi and Can't Touch This (nom) none 24 July Queue 1 One of the warm-up hooks; can run on any date before the Olympics start (24 is in fact the first day of competitions but we haven't got anything for that day yet). This double-hook has already had its admin checks done (by Cwmhiraeth) published American Samoa at the 2020 Summer Olympics (nom) none 24 July Queue1 One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics published Twice a Man (film) (nom) none 25 July Queue 2 ... that Olympia Dukakis's first screen role was in the avant-garde film Twice a Man? That's got to be a brilliant Olympics hook. published Angling at the 1900 Summer Olympics (nom) none 25 July Queue2 One of the Olympic warmup hooks. published Camil Doua (nom) none 26 July Queue 3 Flagbearer – Doua is competing in the men's 100 metre freestyle and the heats will be on 30 July. Problem is that we have two hooks for that date already. As Doua is flagbearer for Mauritania, the opening ceremony date is a perfectly viable alternative. Agreed for this to be a standalone hook for its rather cool hook fact. published Alison McGregor (nom) none 26 July Queue3 The hook mentions that she was an Olympic torch carrier, i.e. a great warmup hook for the opening day. published Lê Đức Phát (nom) 26 July 26 July Queue3 Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. Otherwise, Lê is going to compete in men's singles badminton, with the preliminary round every day from 27 to 31 July inclusive. Any of those days would thus also work. published Edda Hannesdóttir (nom) 26 July 26 July Queue3 Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. Otherwise, Hannesdóttir is set to compete in the women's triathlon on 31 July published María Sara Grippoli (nom) 26 July 26 July Queue3 Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. Otherwise, Grippoli is set to compete in women's 49 kg taekwondo, with all competitions on 7 August. published Viren Nettasinghe (nom) 26 July 26 July Queue3 Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. published Chloë Farro (nom) 26 July 26 July Queue3 Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. published Oyuntsetseg Yesügen (nom) 26 July 26 July Queue3 Flagbearer – part of the mass hook. Late addition to the set. The nomination page is already closed; if you'd like to review this, please use the nomination talk page to do so. published Fathimath Dheema Ali (nom) none 27 July Queue 4 The women's table tennis singles prelim round starts on 27 July published Evann Girault (nom) none 27 July Queue4 Girault is going to compete in men's sabre, and that competition is held on 27 July (from elimination to finals; all on one day) published Lilia Cosman (nom) 28 July 28 July Queue 5 Cosman will compete in the qualification round on 28 July. published Aminata Barrow (nom) None 28 July Queue5 Barrow will compete in women's 100 metre breaststroke, with heats on 28 July published Lorrane Oliveira (nom) 28 July 28 July Queue5 potential lead hook Oliveira will compete in women's artistic team all-around, with qualifications on 28 July. That's the third hook for that day. The nominator says that the team will most likely make it to the finals, to be held on 30 July, but we've got two hooks for that day already, so that's not a good alternative. published Adam Maraana (nom) 29 July 29 July Queue 6 My preference would be for this hook to run on 28 July, when the heats and semi-finals in 100 m backstroke will be held. Problem is that we have three Olympic hooks for that date already. Given that he's quite good, there is a chance that he'll make the final on 29 July. Hence let's take the gamble and go for that day. published Victor Alvares de Oliveira (nom) 29 July 29 July Queue6 Submitted on 18 July hence this one might not make it in time. Alvares de Oliveira is going to compete in men's foil fencing, with all competitions to be held on 29 July. published Solomon Islands at the 2020 Summer Olympics (nom) none 1 August One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics published Alyssa Mendoza (nom) none 30 July Queue 7 Assuming that she is still featherweight, the women's 57 kg boxing competition begins on 30 July with the round of 32. published Andy Barat (nom) none 30 July Queue7 Barat is going to compete in the men's slalom K-1, and that competition has its heats on 30 July. That's unfortunately the third article for this date. Before you promote to prep, please see the discussion above about combining this with the Alyssa Mendoza hook. published Valentin Houinato (nom) none 30 July Queue7 Nominated to DYK late in the process. Houinato is set to compete in the men's 81 kg judo event, with all competitions held on 30 July published Shachar Sagiv (nom) none 30 July Queue7 Men's triathlon is scheduled for 30 July starting at 8:00 published Matthew Wright (triathlete) (nom) none 30 July Queue7 Nominated to DYK late in the process. Wright is set to compete in the men's triathlon, which is scheduled for 30 July starting at 8:00. Is there an opportunity to combine the two triathletes in this set into one hook if both nominations get reviewed in time? published Dylan Travis (nom) none 31 July Queue 1 The first USA men's 3x3 game is on 30 July. Subsequent games are on 31 July, 1, 2, and 4 August if that date gets too crowded. published 2024 United States men's Olympic basketball team (nom) 28 July 31 July Queen1 The U.S. team plays in the preliminary round on 28 and 31 July and on 3 August. We already have too many hooks for 28 July, so any of the other two options will work better. published Marcedes Walker (nom) None 1 August Queue 2 Walker is going to compete in the women's 3x3 basketball competition and they are playing a round robin round-robin tournament from 30 July to 3 August, playing every day. Hence, there's heaps of flexibility moving this hook around to suit. published Warren Lawrence (nom) none 1 August Queue2 Nominated to DYK late in the process. Lawrence is set to compete in the men's 50 metre freestyle event, with heats and semifinals on 1 August. published Suriname at the 1960 Summer Olympics (nom) none 1 August Queue2 One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics published Emily Ausmus (nom) none 2 August Queue 3 Ausmus is competing in the women's water polo tournament in Group B, with preliminary round games held on 27, 29, and 31 July, and a game on 2 August. Any of those dates are suitable. published Philippines at the 1924 Summer Olympics (nom) none 2 August Queue3 One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics. We do have an image but it's of rather poor quality. published 2024 World Athletics Relays – Mixed 4 × 400 metres relay (nom) 2/3 August 3 August Queue 4 The mixed 4 × 400 metres relay is scheduled for 2 and 3 August 2024.[1] published Filomenaleonisa Iakopo (nom) none 3 August Queue4 Iakopo is scheduled to compete in the women's 100 metres, with the preliminary round scheduled to be held on 3 August. published Apsara Sakbun (nom) none 3 August Queue4 Sakbun is going to compete in women's 50 metre freestyle swimming, with heats and semi-finals on 3 August. published Mikaella Moshe (nom) None 3 August Queue4 Women's individual archery is already underway, so this can run anytime we want. That said, the finals are on 3 August. published

Article (nom)	Requested	Suggested date	Prep set	Notes (all times in CEST)	Status
2022 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres and 2022 European Athletics Championships – Women's 400 metres hurdles (nom)	none	4 August	Queue 5	potential lead hook This is the second hook that names Femke Bol. She is due to compete in 400 metres hurdles (heats on 4 August).	published
Liechtenstein at the 1936 Summer Olympics (nom)	none	4 August	Queue5	One of the "foo at the YYYY Summer Olympics" hooks; can run on any day during the Olympics	published
Kim Ye-ji (sport shooter) (nom)	none	4 August	Queue5	Has already competed; can run anytime	published
Piper Kelly (nom)	None	5 August	Queue 6	Qualifications for women's speed climbing are on 5 Aug.	in queue
Aniya Holder (nom)	5 August	5 August	Queue6	Qualifications for women's speed climbing are on 5 Aug.	in queue
Jamal Valizadeh (nom)	5 August	5 August	Queue6	A late request. Valizadeh is set to competed in the men's Greco-Roman 60 kg competition, with proceedings kicking off on 5 August.	Needs reviewer for ALT1
1964 Summer Olympics medal table (nom)	None	5 August	Queue6	Can run whenever. If Jamal Valizadeh gets signed off before Q6 goes live, we'll shift this backwards.	in queue
Jenya Kazbekova (nom)	6/8 August	6 August	Queue 7	Kazbekova is due to compete in women's combined sport climbing, with semifinals for the two competition elements (boulder and lead) split over two days: 6 & 8 August. Hence, this can run on either date.	in queue
Zheng Haohao (nom)	none	6 August	Queue7	Zheng is due to compete in women's park skateboarding on 6 Aug.	in queue
Ruby Remati (nom)	None	7 August	Prep 1	The team artistic swimming event will be held on 5, 6, and 7 August. The hook could run on any of those days.	In prep
Hadi Tiranvalipour (nom)	none	7 August	Prep 1	Tiranvalipour is set to competed in the men's 58 kg taekwondo on 7 August.	In prep
Jesse Grupper (nom)	7 August	7 August	Prep 1	Grupper is going to compete in the lead semifinal of the men's combined rock climbing. That date is not far away but if we can get this reviewed in a hurry, it'll fit into that date alright as we've only got other other nominations (on most days, we have three).	Review not yet started
Emmanuella Atora (nom)	8 August	8 August	Prep2	Atora is due to compete in women's 57 kg taekwondo (assuming that she's still in this weight class). The competition is to be held on 8 August.	in prep
Sarah Levy (rugby union) (nom)	None	8 August	Prep2	Can run whenever.	in prep
Ada Korkhin (nom)	none	8 August	Prep2	The women's 25 metre pistol competition is already underway and will finish on 3 August. Hence, this can run whenever.	At SOHA
Manizha Talash (nom)	none	9 August	Prep 3	Breaking or breakdancing is a new sport. Who would have known. The competition for females is on 9 August.	in prep
Logan Edra (nom)	none	9 August	Prep3	Here's our second female breakdancer. Any chance of combining the two hooks?	in prep
Sunny Choi (nom)	9 August	9 August	Prep3	Well, that's our third female breakdancer. We really shouldn't have three individuals hooks for breakdancers on the same day. I've suggested a hook with this nomination and propose that we close the other two nominations and transfer the credits across.	in prep
Iman Mahdavi (nom)	none	9 August	Prep3	Mahdavi is set to compete in the men's freestyle 74 kg wrestling, with the qualification round on 9 August. As we'll combine the breaker hooks, this is only the second hook for that day.	Review not yet started
Gaku Akazawa (nom)	none	10 August	Prep 4	Akazawa is going to compete in the men's freestyle wrestling 65 kg, with the event scheduled to start on 10 August.	in prep
Alasan Ann (nom)	none	10 August	Prep4	Ann is going to compete in the men's taekwondo +80 kg, with all events scheduled for 10 August.	in prep
Kennedy Blades (nom)	none	10 August	Prep4	Blades is going to compete in the women's freestyle wrestling 76 kg, with the event scheduled to start on 10 August.	in prep
[[]] (nom)

Software maintenance

• ... that some estimate that maintenance of existing software costs up to nine times as much as creating it in the first place?

This hook was run yesterday. I logged a bunch of issues at WP:ERRORS but it scrolled off before they were resolved. They included:

1. The hook is not a definite fact which is unlikely to change
2. It is introduced by a weasel
3. The hook was not clearly stated in the article
4. The source which supposedly supported the hook did not pass verification
5. The first hook suggested in the nomination didn't pass verification either

My impression is that this didn't go well because the source wasn't clearly identified, was behind a paywall and wasn't quoted. Note that the nomination was professional paid work and so one would expect a high standard. So it goes...

WP:ERRORS discussion

This is another blatant weasel – who estimates this? And it's obviously not a "definite fact which is unlikely to change" as there are a range of estimates. The hook discussion started with the figure of "three times" and it appears that such estimates are unreliable because the article repeatedly says that the topic has not been well-studied. Other issues include: The ceiling is obviously a lot higher than 9 and I reckon the sky's the limit. Consider the case of Wikipedia. This was developed on a shoestring using open source software. But now the WMF has a large staff and a huge budget. As I understand it, the staff headcount has gone from half a person to over 700 – that's a factor of about 1,400. And much of the code is still the same legacy stack. Deciding what is development and what is maintenance is often an arbitrary accounting decision. For example, consider Vector 2022. Is that new development or maintenance of the existing system? The article indicates that it would be considered "enhancement" and so classified as maintenance but it's all still a matter of subjective definition. Changes are often incremental and so there's the Ship of Theseus problem. At what point is a system a new creation? The supposed hook fact does not seem to be clearly stated in the article. I've searched for "nine" and "9" and can't find it. The idea that you can generalise in a definite way about such varied activity and systems is inherently suspect. See all models are wrong. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:28, 28 July 2024 (UTC) 0. "Who estimates this?" Ulziit, Bayarbuyan; Warraich, Zeeshan Akhtar; Gencel, Cigdem; Petersen, Kai. If you look closely, you'll realise that the definite fact is the estimation, not the costs. "I reckon the sky's the limit. Consider the case of Wikipedia." Well, if you happen to note these considerations of yours in a reliable source, we can take them into account. Until then, we prefer to avoid original research. "it's all still a matter of subjective definition" Yes, that's why we leave it to reliable sources to do the research. See above notes on reliable sources and original research. I would suggest reading the article, not just using ctrl-F. You may find the hook fact in the "Software life cycle" section. WP:2+2=4 may be useful. See 3). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:16, 28 July 2024 (UTC) AirshipJungleman29 seems to be referring to this source: Ulziit, Bayarbuyan; Warraich, Zeeshan Akhtar; Gencel, Cigdem; Petersen, Kai (2015). "A conceptual framework of challenges and solutions for managing global software maintenance". Journal of Software: Evolution and Process. 27 (10): 763–792. doi:10.1002/smr.1720.. On the cited page 764, this states The maintenance phase is the longest part of software lifecycle and, in most cases, also the most expensive. For the last several decades, the cost of software maintenance is continuously growing. In the 1970s, the costs were around 60%, while in the 1990s and 2000s, the reported costs increased to about 90% and more. Note that this says "90% and more" and so the hook is clearly inconsistent by stating "up to nine times". This hook should be pulled as the source does not verify it but instead contradicts it. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:40, 28 July 2024 (UTC) i tried to fix this hook in a hurry (the previous one didn't verify at all) and came out with this one, my bad :) how about we change the wording so that the hook matches the source? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 19:19, 28 July 2024 (UTC) I noticed that theleekycauldron correctly challenged the original hook which was "... that maintenance of existing software is estimated to cost more than three times as much as its development? ". The source for that wasn't quoted in the nomination and failed verification and we have the same problem with the version that's now on the main page. As I noted above, these generalisations are too fuzzy to be presented as definite facts and they are very subject to change as the technology and techniques move fast. Just pull it, please, and we should then start a post mortem. Andrew🐉(talk) 20:14, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Andrew🐉(talk) 14:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

It's not clear what you expect to happen here. If there's problems with the article, go fix them, or discuss them on the article's talk page. If you have a problem with the nom accepting money, take it up with them. They were totally up-front about it (which puts them ahead of like 99.9% of our paid editors) and sounds like it more or less falls under WP:GLAM. If you just want to complain about the fact that DYK's quality control isn't as good as it should be, I agree, but our energy would be better spent working on upcoming noms than wringing our hands about yesterday's. RoySmith (talk) 14:52, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I have considerable experience of software maintenance and, when this is done professionally, issues are normally logged when they arise. This provides an audit trail and record which then enables further action, lessons-learned and so forth. I gather there's some sort of DYK reform process underway per Wikipedia:Did you know/Removed/2023–24. And, in any case, there's an implicit continual improvement process and the first requirement for that is feedback. Such feedback is best done here because WP:ERRORS is ephemeral and keeps no records.

As for the article in question, I was thinking of starting a good article reassessment but first I'll have to read through it again and mull over its issues. I can already see that it has some but it will take time and effort and nobody is paying me to do this.

As for upcoming noms, I have one myself and there's no shortage of other things to do. "Excelsior!"

Andrew🐉(talk) 17:32, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Browsing this talk page now I'm here, I notice that problems with this hook were noticed 6 days ago – see Prep_5 above. In that discussion, Black Kite says "This hook doesn't work. Even if we assume that the book source is correct (which I can't check)..." So, right there we see the problem of being unable to access the source upon which the hook depended. You can't conduct a sensible discussion if you can't see the details. Relevant quotations should be mandatory in such cases.

Another structural problem is the habit of naming such sections with names like "Prep 5" rather than with an article name. There are currently two sections on this page called "Prep 5" and this is both confusing and lacking in context about the actual topic(s). I named this current section "Software maintenance" because that is the name of the topic. How hard is that?

Andrew🐉(talk) 19:41, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Andrew Davidson, you reported somewhere a while back that every morning, you read the main page and dive into some of the topics to see what's written is actually correct. And you unearth numerous problems by doing so. I very much appreciate your efforts and applaud you for doing this good work.

The only downside is that when you go through your breakfast routine, items are already live. How much more useful would it be if you offered your wonderful service before things appear on the main page? Are you aware that Wikipedia:Main Page/Tomorrow offers you the main page a day in advance? I wonder whether if you could slightly adjust your routine and read that page instead? Your work is much appreciate, and having your feedback and thoughts 24 hours earlier would be immensely valuable. Schwede66 20:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the Wikipedia:Main Page/Tomorrow link and might give it a try, thanks. I'm not sure how accurate it is though. Most of my main page activity currently is for the WP:ITN section and that is updated continuously rather than on a daily schedule. And how does the tomorrow view deal with DYK when the hook sets only last for 12 hours?

The actual main page is always likely to get the lion's share of attention because it's the default view when I go to the Wikipedia site or load the Wikipedia app. If one starts looking at other pages then one is literally not on the same page and that seems quite lonely. Is there a talk page or noticeboard associated with the tomorrow view? That might help in building a community of forward-looking reviewers.

Andrew🐉(talk) 20:52, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

how does the tomorrow view deal with DYK when the hook sets only last for 12 hours? If I had my druthers, we would take the whole idea of 12-hour updates and nuke it from orbit. It is antithetical to improving quality. Anybody can shovel manure twice as fast, but I'm not willing to play that game.

I also come from a software engineering background; bug trackers, post-mortems, standup meetings, OKRs, pagers, the whole smash. The advantage of my "job" at wikipedia is if I don't feel like working, I just don't, and I don't have to tell anybody why, nor do I have to justify that I didn't get done what I thought I would get done this quarter. RoySmith (talk) 22:22, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

If I recall, at one time, it was set-times of six hours. Alanscottwalker (talk) 22:37, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

It was before my time, but yes I remember back when DYK used to do four sets a day (and also had the "from Wikipedia's newest content" flavor text). Do we have the discussions that led to the retirement of both? By the time I started my DYK career in 2016 it was already down to two sets a day at most. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:03, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

on WP:ERRORS, there are links to the current, next, and next-but-one DYK, regardless of cycle length :) also, yes, let's not do 12-hour sets anymore. Instead, we should do one set per day of eight to nine hooks and they should all be bangers. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 01:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I think I've said this before, but I'd be in favour of going back to a standard eight-hook, 24-hour set. If WP:PEIS limits at WP:DYKNA become an issue, we can just reject some older nominations. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:31, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Queue 1

@DYK admins: Queue 1 is missing the {{DYKbotdo}}. Rather than attempt to fix it myself and possibly make it worse, could somebody who understands these page formats better than I do please take a look? Thanks. RoySmith (talk) 16:36, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I think all that's needed is a {{DYKbotdo}} in the following format:

as an inserted first line of file. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:55, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

 Fixed I’ve also looked why it was missing and it’s step 2 of the admin instructions (Moving a prep to queue) that wasn’t done when manually moving a prep to queue. Cwmhiraeth, do you always promote manually? Using PSHAW prevents this from happening. Schwede66 18:14, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Prep 3

Tobey (song)

• ... that the music video for "Tobey", in which Eminem carves into his own alter ego with a chainsaw, was delayed by three days?

@Launchballer, @Dxneo, @Arconning, @AirshipJungleman29: The three-day delay does not seem all that interesting or hooky to me, and distracts from the main point of interest, which is Eminiem killing off Slim Shady. I see from the nom that there were DYKFICTION concerns, but I don't think adding an unrelated fact about a short delay as a fig leaf makes a difference in that respect, as the Slim Shady element is still the part of the hook that anybody cares about. (If the hook was "that the music video for "Tobey" was delayed by three days", are you interested? No.)

Personally, I'm inclined to say that there's not a DYKFICTION issue. Eminem is a real person, and Slim Shady is an alter ego that he uses in real life, so we're clearly tied into "the real world in some way". The point isn't that a fictional character got killed, the point is that Eminem is metaphorically leaving his childish persona behind to (theoretically) mature as an artist.

Would anybody object to a reword to something like:

• ... that the music video for "Tobey" features Eminem killing his alter ego Slim Shady with a chainsaw?

♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:24, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Excellent idea.--Launchballer 08:15, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I disagree. As I understand it, Slim Shady is an entirely fictional alter ego that Eminem uses within the context of songs to emphasise dark themes. He is entirely at liberty to do whatever he likes with the character, as explained in WP:DYKFICTION. The music video could equally hypothetically feature Slim Shady travelling to the Hundred Acre Wood and meeting Winnie the Pooh, or preventing World War One, or getting married to Barack Obama, or ... you get the point. It's fiction. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:11, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I disagree as well. That is like saying something similar from a work such as Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter wouldn't count as a DYK fiction hook, although it surely would.SL93 (talk) 10:14, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

If you're that opposed, Airship, I don't understand why you would promote the hook in that form. Is it your position that the unrelated factoid about a real-life three-day delay makes the Slim Shady element somehow acceptable, even though on its own you feel it would be unacceptable? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 10:26, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

How about either "that the music video for "Tobey", which had been delayed by three days, saw Eminem carve into his own alter ego with a chainsaw" or "that the belated music video for "Tobey" saw Eminem carve into his own alter ego with a chainsaw?".--Launchballer 10:52, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

My point is that it makes no sense to note the three-day delay at all. If the mention of Eminem "killing" Slim Shady is in violation of DKYFICTION, why is it suddenly not in violation as long as we say the video was delayed? What does that have to do with the rest of it? It would be different if the video was delayed because of the chainsaw imagery for some reason, but it wasn't, so as it stands, we've strapped this unrelated and boring little factoid to the interesting part of the hook as a nonsensical fig leaf to protect against DYKFICTION. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 11:13, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

That's a good point. I agree that the hook is unsuitable with or without the addition of the delay mention, and agree with NLH5's pull. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:31, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Given the concerns about DYKFICTION I've pulled the hook for now. Discussion about a new hook fact can continue on the nomination page. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:22, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Highest averages method

• "... that the 1876 United States presidential election was decided by Congress's failure to use the correct rounding procedure?

Pinging @Closed Limelike Curves, Sawyer777, and AirshipJungleman29: Unless I am missing something obvious, there is no explanation, either in the target article or in the 1876 election article (in which the word "rounding" isn't mentioned at all), as to why a faulty rounding procedure led to the result of the election. There's a source, but there's no explanation. Black Kite (talk) 12:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

The explanation seems to be that "a pretext was found" to add 9 extra seats in addition to the numbers calculated and that was enough to change the result of the election. See page 37 of Fair representation. TSventon (talk) 13:29, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Well, indeed, but again (a) that isn't explained in either article, and (b) if I'm clicking on that hook I want to know why a rounding issue changed the result, and I would be disappointed. Black Kite (talk) 14:45, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

@Closed Limelike Curves: can you add some more detail to the article? TSventon (talk) 14:52, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Done. Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 14:58, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry to be a pain here, but unless I'm really missing something, the reference doesn't explain why the nine additional seats - which appear to be the cause of the problem - were produced by a rounding error. Black Kite (talk) 15:36, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Is the newest version clear enough? Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 16:00, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, that's better. Black Kite (talk) 19:05, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't think the sourcing in our present article is in any way adequate for its heavy editorialization present in the article. The single line of text about this material in the source given in the article is "the malapportionment of the 1870s was directly responsible for the 1876 election of Rutherford B. Hayes, although his opponent enjoyed 51.6 percent of the vote". This is used to support claims that (1) the apportionment happened in 1870, (2) that it tilted the electors by 9 votes, (3) that these seats were given out in an arbitrary manner (rather than, say, by following a standard rule of apportionment and choosing the number of seats to be apportioned in an advantageous way, which might be unfair but is not arbitrary, (4) that the Webster method is unbiased, and (5) that the Webster method would have given 9 fewer votes to the Republicans. None of these article claims are present in the source. As for the hook, it claims that (1) the highest averages method is "correct" in some sense that other standard methods are not, (2) that the apportionment was made by Congress, (3) that the malapportionment was caused by Congress not rounding correctly (rather than, say, by rounding correctly but choosing numbers that caused the rounding to come out in favor of one party), and that (4) this determined the outcome of the presidential election; only (4) is supported by the source. We need much better sourcing before this hook can run. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:26, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

David Eppstein, I have added a reference to page 37, which has most of the information you are querying. Can you check again? TSventon (talk) 21:49, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

I think I agree with you on the implication/phrasing of this hook being a bit off, although really my comment on failing to use the correct rounding procedure is driven by the fact that, at the time, the law actually specified Hamilton's method, while convention suggested Webster's (used from 1840-1860). How about:

...that the results of the 1876 presidential race were swayed by the use of an unusual rounding procedure?

But this might have the opposite suggestion, that highest averages are "unusual". Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 22:09, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

The fun fact I want this to be about is something like "the 1876 election was decided by a literal rounding error", but I'm not 100% sure where I'd link to the page. Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 22:20, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

[dubious]. The source does not say they made a rounding error, which to me can only mean that they attempted a specific calculation but produced the incorrect result of the calculation. Instead your added page 37 states that they duly enacted into law Hamilton's method in 1850, rather than Webster's method, and then followed the enacted method for years afterward. There are strong arguments why Webster's method would have been more a more fair method, but enacting a method and then following it is not an error at all. So without much better sourcing we cannot use a hook calling this method or their calculations incorrect (rather than what it appears to be to me, merely a different opinion on how to prioritize the inevitable imprecisions that result from all rounding methods).

Look, some allocation methods prioritize smaller groups, making sure that all get a seat at the table. Some prioritize getting all allocations as accurate as possible, or as fair as possible, both of which can be measured in different ways. Some penalize smaller groups and favor the larger groups, maybe to streamline the process by keeping fewer parties or maybe because the larger groups are the ones that set the policies. These are political decisions. They are not matters of mathematical correctness. Different methods have different advantages and disadvantages and different people at different times can reasonably disagree over which of those are most salient to their situation. We should not, in Wikipedia's voice, designate one of these methods as correct and the rest incorrect.

Had Congress actually enacted a method, miscalculated the results of that same method, and then used their miscalculation in place of what the method said to do, then something like the present hook might be ok. But we do not have sourcing for that, not even after recent improvements to sourcing. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:26, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

@Closed Limelike Curves: et al there is a more detailed account of the 1876 allocation on pages 71 and 72 of a US Government report here. TSventon (talk) 00:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I'll be sure to check it out in the morning. Thanks! Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 06:11, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

The source does not say they made a rounding error, which to me can only mean that they attempted a specific calculation but produced the incorrect result of the calculation.

Rounding error as in the error caused by approximating a real number (the seat entitlement) as an integer. Had the exact entitlement been used in allocating electoral votes, the result would have switched.

The definite article "a" can be dropped to clarify this. Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 06:11, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

By your definition, the error caused by approximating a real number by a low-denominator rational, every method other than direct democracy, including the highest-averages method, involves rounding errors. We cannot use that argument to say that one method is correct and others incorrect. If that is what you mean, your hook is extremely misleading. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:34, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying any method is correct or incorrect (right now), although I agree the original hook should be rewritten for clarification. My point is just that if the electoral college had used exact, rather than rounded, seat entitlements (or had used a different rounding method) the result would be different, which is interesting. Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 14:57, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

The only possible meaning of "exact, rather than rounded, seat entitlements" is direct democracy: every citizen gets a seat. Is that what you mean? Everything else involves rounding somehow. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:07, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

No, I mean the state's entitlement or seat quota. The correct number of seats for California in the House of Representatives, which would be exactly proportional to its population, is ${\frac {39{\text{ million (CA pop)}}}{329.5{\text{ million (US pop)}}}}\cdot 435{\text{ seats in the House}}\approx 51.97$ (so its electoral vote total would be that, plus 2 senators, to get 53.97). Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 21:55, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

pulled – further discussion can continue at the nomination page :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:37, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

since i've been pinged twice: no comment on the issue David Eppstein raises, as this is not my area of expertise or interest and not something i did catch or would've caught. seems like it will be resolved ... sawyer * he/they * talk 08:42, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Queue 4

Accessibility of transport in London

@Turini2, JuniperChill, and AirshipJungleman29:

There are several uncited statements, which I have marked with citation needed tags. These will need to be resovled before this appears on the main page. Z1720 (talk) 18:55, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Believe that is all resolved - one CN tag removed because it is backed up by (cited) information in a table, 4 references for one summary sentence would feel like overkill. Turini2 (talk) 09:09, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Queue 5

Vann Molyvann

@Arcahaeoindris, CanonNi, and Hey man im josh:

There is an uncited sentence in the article, which I have indicated with a cn tag. This should be resolved before it goes on the Main Page. Z1720 (talk) 19:26, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Z1720 It is still uncited, and this queue is next up. SL93 (talk) 18:22, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't have a WSJ subscription so I can't get to the full text, but the google search results suggest it should have been Vater, Tom (27 May 2010). "Modern Masterpieces". The Wall Street Journal, which is currently ref #6. RoySmith (talk) 18:31, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Kaur (short film)

@Whispyhistory, Philafrenzy, Launchballer, and SL93:

• ... that after British Sikh physician Parvinder Shergill could not find a recent mainstream English film led by a woman that resembled her, she co-wrote and co-produced her own?

The article says, "According to British Sikh physician Parvinder Shergill, after Bend It Like Beckham, she could not find another mainstream English film led by a woman that looked like her so she made her own and titled it Kaur." If Shergill said that she found someone who looked like her in BILB, then the hook used for DYK needs to be modified. If the hook is referring to a struggle to find a depiction of a woman in a turban, then this should be specified in the article. Z1720 (talk) 19:35, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I think the key word might be "recent". Bend It Like Beckham is from 22 years ago. SL93 (talk) 20:40, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Z1720 Would rewording the article to say "after Bend It Like Beckham in 2002" fix the issue? SL93 (talk) 23:37, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

PEIS limit at WP:DYKN

The latest nominations at WP:DYKN are no longer transcluding because it has reached its WP:PEIS limit. I have sent some pings to editors to try to get some nominations moving. Last time this happened, we activated the backlog mode where editors with over 20 noms had to QPQ an extra hook. Here's a link to that discussion.

Is it time to activate the backlog mode for DYKN? Z1720 (talk) 20:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

I think so. SL93 (talk) 20:42, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) We're in the unusual position of having reached the PEIS limit on both the Nominations and the Approved pages: two nominations aren't transcluding on Nominations, and five on Approved. We also have three and a half unfilled preps and three unfilled queues. If we can get a couple of additional preps filled, and some reviews completed, both pages would be under the PEIS limit. There's been an unusual spike in nominations over the past six days: we've gone from 253 to 303 total nominations, and 122 to 137 approved nominations (both numbers including the noms that aren't transcluding). Some of this is almost certainly due to the current GAN backlog drive and the increased number of new GAs eligible for nomination; the drive ends in a few hours, and as the last of the reviews are completed over the next week or so, the stream of DYK noms will slow. If things aren't better in a week or so—if the number of unapproved DYKs goes much higher than 166—then we might want to look into reactivating backlog mode. I think today is too soon. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:44, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully more editors can chip in on promoting to bring it down. SL93 (talk) 20:46, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

And now we have only one full prep. SL93 (talk) 03:14, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

To inject a bit of mathematical reality here, WP:DYKN, WP:DYKNA and WP:DYK/Q collectively constitute a closed system with a finite capacity. Things like backlog mode only serve to shuffle the deck chairs around a bit faster, but don't change the fundamental capacity of the system. Noms come in at whatever rate they come in at. Noms go out by one of two routes; the main page or rejection.

If the input rate exceeds the output rate long enough, we exhaust our storage capacity of ((2 x PIES) + (14 queues and preps x 9 hooks each) + whatever PIES overload we're willing to put up with). Rearranging deck chairs doesn't change that. We seem to have consensus that we don't want to go to a 12 hour cycle, so the only thing left is to get more ruthless about rejections per WP:DYKTIMEOUT. RoySmith (talk) 23:08, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm still hoping for more promoters. There are nominations that likely sit around not because they are problematic, but because we have barely any editors promoting. That work can be spread out, but I kept on hearing from editors that they are afraid of being called out for making mistakes. I see no problem in being called out. SL93 (talk) 23:18, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Speaking of deck chairs, I was going to promote a prep area just now, but the next one is Prep 2 and it's not complete. Oddly enough Prep 3 is full, but I don't think it's possible to promote preps out of order. RoySmith (talk) 23:25, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

It appears to be because of the problematic special occasion hook at Template:Did you know nominations/Sarah Gibson (composer). I'm thinking of skipping over it. SL93 (talk) 23:29, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

On the topic of being called out, I've been known to get grumpy once in a while, but mostly at old-timers who should know better. Folks who are thinking about getting involved at DYK should know what we expect that new folks will make mistakes. That's how you learn and it shouldn't be something to fear. Anybody who bites a DYK newbie can expect to get trouted. RoySmith (talk) 23:30, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

RoySmith The prep is now filled. SL93 (talk) 00:36, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

I am not concerned about the PEIS limit on the approved list: as I write this, there are two hooks that are not showing, but 4 queues and 3 preps are mostly empty. If all of them were filled, we would have roughly 80 approved noms left over, so nowhere near hitting the 120 criteria previously used to switch to 2-a-day. Also, as hooks are promoted the hidden hooks will soon appear. On the awaiting approval list, it is more problematic if reviews aren't showing because it means someone might not review them. Also, AFAIK the community did not establish clear criteria for when DYKN switches to backlog mode, which is why I bring up the issue here. Z1720 (talk) 00:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Older nominations needing DYK reviewers

The previous list was archived a couple of days early, so I've created a new list of 39 nominations that need reviewing in the Older nominations section of the Nominations page, covering everything through July 14. We have a total of 303 nominations, of which 137 have been approved, a gap of 166 nominations that has increased by 35 over the past 6 days. Thanks to everyone who reviews these and any other nominations!

More than one month old

• June 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Better Off Dead?
• June 19: Template:Did you know nominations/2025 Philippine general election
• June 21: Template:Did you know nominations/Chand Sifarish
• June 22: Template:Did you know nominations/Keegan Baker
• June 23: Template:Did you know nominations/Lahug Airport
• June 24: Template:Did you know nominations/Dus Bahane
• June 26: Template:Did you know nominations/Not in Love (Crystal Castles song)
• June 26: Template:Did you know nominations/Brandiose
• June 26: Template:Did you know nominations/Ling Nam
• June 28: Template:Did you know nominations/Ken Goldin
• June 28: Template:Did you know nominations/Jab Se Tere Naina
• June 28: Template:Did you know nominations/List of people who use their middle names as their first names
• June 30: Template:Did you know nominations/Liza 'N' Eliaz

Other nominations

• July 1: Template:Did you know nominations/Norman Hunter (footballer)
• July 3: Template:Did you know nominations/South West Norfolk in the 2024 United Kingdom general election
• July 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Iktara (song)
• July 4: Template:Did you know nominations/Hadriana in All My Dreams
• July 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Quintus Quincy Quigley
• July 5: Template:Did you know nominations/Grace Panvini
• July 5: Template:Did you know nominations/David B. Gillespie
• July 6: Template:Did you know nominations/Sam Carling
• July 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Motibai Kapadia
• July 7: Template:Did you know nominations/Huang Wenxiu
• July 8: Template:Did you know nominations/Robert Coe (colonist)
• July 8: Template:Did you know nominations/1954 Busan Yongdusan fire
• July 9: Template:Did you know nominations/superseded combination
• July 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Hey Sensei, Don't You Know?
• July 11: Template:Did you know nominations/Amy Sawyer
• July 12: Template:Did you know nominations/Articulation (painting)
• July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Leanne Mohamad
• July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Mama (My Chemical Romance song)
• July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Margaret Coe
• July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Nathaniel Coe
• July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/1974 Speech of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman at the United Nations
• July 13: Template:Did you know nominations/Jarrett Robertson
• July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Trump raised-fist photographs
• July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Lisa M. Corrigan
• July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Liber OZ
• July 14: Template:Did you know nominations/Upper Ivory Coast

Please remember to cross off entries, including the date, as you finish reviewing them (unless you're asking for further review), even if the review was not an approval. Please do not remove them entirely. Many thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 20:34, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Data about DYK article creation/expansion

I am looking to generate reports about articles created and expanded by specific users that were featured on Did You Know. While there are tables listing this data, the minimum cutoff seems to be 25, and I would like data on users that have fewer than 25 articles credited to them. Is there a database I could access with this information? Harej (talk) 20:12, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Queue 6: 5 Aug

Aniya Holder (nom)

Theleekycauldron, I see you pulled this hook out of Q6 and placed it into Prep3 instead. As it's a special occasion hook, don't you think it would be a good idea to start a discussion on this? For the record, I think it's a rather bad idea to not run Holder on 5 August, the day that she is going to compete in the Olympics. And yes, we've had two speed climbers in Q6, but as I say, should you not at least start a discussion instead of unilaterally undermining the efforts of running Olympic hooks on the day that competitions are held? Schwede66 22:40, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I noticed that two other hooks were pulled with no discussion. Why no discussion? SL93 (talk) 22:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

What? Which ones? Schwede66 22:56, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Mariesa Crow and Template:Did you know nominations/National Coordination Committee Against Corruption and Crime from the same queue. SL93 (talk) 22:59, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I see. There is discussion about those at their nom pages, so that's perfectly in order. Schwede66 23:01, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I meant discussion prior to removing them. If that is acceptable, fine, but I haven't seen anyone else do it that way. SL93 (talk) 23:02, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm happy to list them here beforehand – I just thought they might take a while to fix and didn't want to clutter up the noticeboard under time pressure, so I experimented with something else. Really, either way works for me :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:03, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Either way works for me too. I was just surprised. SL93 (talk) 23:04, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

To check a full hook set is a huge job; there's no perfect way to go about it. I think this way of doing it is just fine; it reaches everyone who's had prior involvement (apart from the promoter to prep maybe). Schwede66 23:05, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I ping the promoter whenever there's an issue with the hook itself – article issues are things the promoter usually isn't responsible for checking, but if there's something they should've caught, I'll ping them. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:21, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

@Schwede66: my bad, i checked for a special occasion marker on the nompage and didn't find one. I'm not the most comfortable with there being three Olympic athlete hooks in one set, it's contrary to guideline – is there another date it can go in? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 22:57, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

No, there isn't. We've had three per set on most days. It's simply a function of there being so many Olympic hooks. Please refer to the extensive discussions above. Schwede66 22:59, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

WP:DYKVAR says No topic should comprise more than two of the hooks in a given update, but honestly, I'll just move it back. Thanks for letting me know :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:19, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Happened to check in on the Aniya Holder DYK just now – totally get why it might have been moved, but if it could be returned to Queue 6 I would be a very happy camper :) SunTunnels (talk) 00:17, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Queue 7: 6 Aug

McVey Fire

@SL93, TCMemoire, and B3251: the hook says "thousands of ... trees?" Shouldn't that be "thousand of acres of trees?" RoySmith (talk) 21:04, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I guess. It would still be thousands either way so I'm fine with it being changed. SL93 (talk) 21:25, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

I suggest that the hook as written is wrong. Looking at Our world in data, the mid-point of tree density in the United States is 17,500 per square kilometre. As 84 square kilometre of forest burned, this equates to some 1.5 million trees. To call that "thousands of ... trees" is an underestimate to such an extent that it's wrong. Schwede66 22:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

And having now looked more closely, they did not replant the whole area burned, but just 16 square kilometres. Still, that's an estimated 280,000 trees at the above density. Schwede66 22:27, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Would someone need to find a source or sources specifying all of that, or would it not be considered synthesis to reword the hook and article with that information? The current source for the hook says thousands of acres. SL93 (talk) 23:34, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

...mid-point of tree density in the United States, this doesn't work though, given the placement of the Dakotas in the Rocky Mountain Rain shadow#North American mainland. The Black hills are fire-climax Ponderosa forest land, which in 1939 whould have still been reflective of centuries of fire regime. Thus open forestland with wide spacing between trees rather then dense east coast or northwest coastal forests. Additionally areas of the Black Hills transition to open Savannah-land with limited scattered trees where the rain-shadow has full influence. This hook need to be sorted with the sources, which are all referencing thousands of acres, not trees.(The sources are also seemingly contradictory as reported in the article now. Source 10 (1940 news article) states the seeds were collected within the Black Hills, source 11 (2022 KOTA article) asserts they are NOT Black Hills Ponderosa, but doesnt really go into detail. I'd suggest updating with information from the Artemis Project page here that genetic testing at USDA laboratories determined the seeds were not of Black Hills Ponderosa.--Kevmin § 00:47, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

I've updated the hook to add "of acres". RoySmith (talk) 14:48, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Withdraw DYK nomination

I have withdrawn my nomination of Template:Did you know nominations/Statue of Peace in Berlin. The creator was blocked for spamming a website in many articles, including the nominated article. I can replace the spammed link, but I don't feel like rewarding the editor. SL93 (talk) 23:10, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Good call, SL93. Before I close this, you might want to remove your QPQ from this article to use it elsewhere. Given that nobody has started reviewing this, that would be a fair and reasonable thing to do. I say "remove" because I for one check whether a review has been used before... Schwede66 23:15, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Theleekycauldron already closed it, but I have since then removed my QPQ per your suggestion. SL93 (talk) 23:17, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Mariesa Crow (nom)

I just pulled this out of Q6 (see the nompage for reason) – we might need to clarify whether DYK incorporates the WP:V requirement that articles be based on independent sources, depending on how this discussion goes. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:23, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

Potential Issues with DYK Image Process

Hi all, I am not closely involved with DYK, but I spoke to Sdkb who suggested this was worth bringing up. A few months ago a doctored image of Chopin was featured, see Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/January#9 January 2024. This image has been floating around the internet as a rare photograph of Chopin, but is instead an edited portion of a painting made in the 20th century (see The Chopin Institute).

While not a major issue, it is certainly not ideal, and I highly doubt the image would have been featured if this context was known ahead of time. In any case, the image's source even said that the "original daguerreotype needs to be found to allow experts to confirm whether it is an image of Chopin"; so I'm not sure we should be using "possible likenesses" anyways (although now understood to be an incorrect likeness). I understand there was a major image misidentification in 2021 as well.

This leads me to wonder: are more stringent requirements for the DYK image necessary? Perhaps the image link can be featured and reviewed in the nomination (like how the hook link is done?) Aza24 (talk) 03:29, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Rotten tomatoes

Everything but the kitchen sink

• ... that many enthusiasts say that a good tomato sandwich is so messy, it should be eaten over the kitchen sink?

The opening to this triggered my weasel watch.

Looking at the nomination, this started with a more definite hook, "... that the best tomato sandwiches are so messy they may need to be eaten over the kitchen sink?" Someone decided that we couldn't say this in Wikipedia's voice because it's not actually a definite fact; it's just an opinion. Instead of finding an actual definite fact, a weasel was found to introduce the debatable opinion. But who are these enthusiasts and are they notable or reliable?

You see, every time I see this weasel wording, I imagine it to be said in the voice of Jeremy Clarkson who would always introduce The Stig like this. Here's a compilation of "Some say..." examples. Delivering absurd facts in this way is a good joke but that's not what we're about, is it?

Bondiola Sandwich

Andrew🐉(talk) 15:45, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Pinging the involved, @Valereee, CurryTime7-24, and Theleekycauldron: Understand your point. Not sure if it is a weasel but it is probably true of any sandwich. When I saw the article I thought back to my own sandwich article with the hook Did you know... that the bondiola sandwich (example pictured) is a popular street food in Argentina? I enjoyed the tomato sandwich article but I see your point about who the "enthusiasts" are. Myself, I am a sandwich enthusiast but I would need more than just tomato to satiate myself. Bruxton (talk) 17:55, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Anybody who has ever grown tomatoes of their own will understand that a tomato sandwich is a waste of perfectly good bread and mayo. Nothing beats a good vine-ripened tomato, still warm from the sun, eaten just as it is, with the juice dribbling down your shirt. You want some heirloom variety, not the modern hybrids, genetically engineered to have smooth skin and a spherical shape, strong enough to stand up to bouncing around in a truck for a couple of days, and a flavor more akin to cardboard than anything else.

An acceptable variation is thickly slabbed, with a slice of mozzarella on top (the good stuff, freshly made by the deli, not that horrible crap that comes wrapped in plastic), topped with a fresh basil leaf (also from your garden) and some balsamic vinegar. RoySmith (talk) 18:08, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

@RoySmith: Myself I spent 150 bucks on supplies and I grew $4.00 worth of tomatoes. They were good and I made a BLT (minus the L) last night. It was superb and not messy at all. I imagine the bacon held the tomato from slipping around in the mayo and the bread was toasted so it had some grit. Bruxton (talk) 18:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

It's true that many enthusiasts make this recommendation. The article supports that assertion. I think the hook is fine as is. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:01, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Enthusiasts are, by definition, fanatically in favour of their enthusiasm. You can run anything as a supposed definite fact by using enthusiasts as your weasels. For example:

1. ... that enthusiasts say that the Earth is flat?
2. ... that enthusiasts say that Donald Trump won the 2020 United States presidential election?
3. ... that enthusiasts say that people are really powerful aliens trapped in a human body?

Andrew🐉(talk) 19:20, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Well not "anything", but yes, interesting statements by enthusiasts can make good hooks. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 19:28, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Moving hooks between preps

I recently moved the hook for Ahhotep I from Prep 2 to Prep 3 with the intention of promoting Jamal Valizadeh to fill the gap in line with the special occasion request. I'm finding though that when promoting the latter using PSHAW though that the task is failing to complete. I can promote the hook manually if needed, but would appreciate someone checking if I may have left something behind in prep 2 which might cause other issues down the road. CSJJ104 (talk) 13:39, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

CSJJ104, notice the format used in e.g. prep area 7 for unused slots? "... that ...", not simply "..." ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:28, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

You also used the improper credit template. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:30, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

@CSJJ104: Welcome to prep building and thank you for your work here! It can get complicated at times so ask questions. Bruxton (talk) 15:05, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks AirshipJungleman29, that is working now :) CSJJ104 (talk) 15:44, 3 August 2024 (UTC)