Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

"WP:DRN" redirects here. For the "Deny Recognition" essay, see WP:DNR.

Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups.

Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN.

Do you need assistance?			Would you like to help?
Request dispute resolution If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be civil, calm, concise, neutral, objective and as nice as possible. This noticeboard is for content disputes only. Comment on the contributions, not the contributors. Off-topic or uncivil behavior may garner a warning, improper material may be struck-out, collapsed, or deleted, and a participant could be asked to step back from the discussion. We cannot accept disputes that are already under discussion at other content or conduct dispute resolution forums or in decision-making processes such as Requests for comments, Articles for deletion, or Requested moves. The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN. The discussion should have been on the article talk page. Discussion on a user talk page is useful but not sufficient, because the article talk page may be watched by other editors who may be able to comment. Discussion normally should have taken at least two days, with more than one post by each editor. Ensure that you deliver a notice to each person you add to the case filing by leaving a notice on their user talk page. DRN has a notice template you can post to their user talk page by using the code shown here: {{subst:drn-notice}}. Be sure to sign and date each notice with four tildes (~~~~). Giving notice on the article talk page in dispute or relying on linking their names here will not suffice. Do not add your own formatting in the conversation. Let the moderators (DRN Volunteers) handle the formatting of the discussion as they may not be ready for the next session. Follow moderator instructions There will be times when the moderator may issue an instruction. It is expected of you to follow their instruction and you can always ask the volunteer on their talk page for clarification, if not already provided. Examples are about civility, don't bite the newcomers, etc. If you need help: If you need a helping hand just ask a volunteer, who will assist you. This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy. For general questions relating to the dispute resolution process, please see our FAQ page.			Become a volunteer We are always looking for new volunteers and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the volunteer guide to learn how to get started. Being a volunteer on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Wikipedia policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input. Volunteers should remember: Volunteers should gently and politely help the participant fix problems. Suggest alternative venues if needed. Try to be nice and engage the participants. Volunteers do not have any special powers, privileges, or authority in DRN or in Wikipedia, except as noted here. Volunteers who have had past dealings with the article, subject matter, or with the editors involved in a dispute which would bias their response must not act as a volunteer on that dispute. If any editor objects to a volunteer's participation in a dispute, the volunteer must either withdraw or take the objection to the DRN talk page to let the community comment upon whether or not the volunteer should continue in that dispute. Listed volunteers open a case by signing a comment in the new filing. When closing a dispute, please mark it as "closed" in the status template (see the volunteer guide for more information), remove the entire line about 'donotarchive' so that the bot will archive it after 48 hours with no other edits. Open/close quick reference To open, replace {{DR case status}} with {{DR case status|open}} To close, replace the "open" with "resolved", "failed", or "closed". Add {{DRN archive top|reason=(reason here) ~~~~}} beneath the case status template, and add {{DRN archive bottom}} at the bottom of the case. Remember to remove the DoNotArchive bit line (the entire line).

Case		Created		Last volunteer edit		Last modified
Title	Status	User	Time	User	Time	User	Time
Autism	In Progress	Oolong (t)	15 days, 14 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	1 days, 12 hours	WhatamIdoing (t)	6 hours
Sri Lankan Vellalar	In Progress	Kautilyapundit (t)	14 days,	Robert McClenon (t)	3 days, 5 hours	Kautilyapundit (t)	1 days, 11 hours
Imran Khan	New	SheriffIsInTown (t)	9 days, 14 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	3 days, 9 hours	SheriffIsInTown (t)	2 days, 11 hours
Battle of Ash-Shihr (1523)	In Progress	Abo Yemen (t)	4 days, 10 hours	Kovcszaln6 (t)	20 hours	Javext (t)	5 hours
List of major crimes in Singapore (2020-present)	Closed	203.78.15.149 (t)	23 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	14 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	14 hours

If you would like a regularly-updated copy of this status box on your user page or talk page, put {{DRN case status}} on your page. Click on that link for more options.
Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 00:46, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Current disputes

Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by LokiTheLiar on 19:00, 16 March 2023 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved LokiTheLiar (talk · contribs) Bon_courage (talk · contribs) Dispute overview The article currently has a criticism section which includes a section describing EMDR as "pseudoscience". This is based on two 20+ year old sources and one source that is just a professional opinion, not a study. As the rest of the article has many, many sources scientifically verifying the efficacy of EMDR in at least its core purpose of the treatment of PTSD, I don't believe that these three sources are sufficient to apply the contentious label of "pseudoscience". The article also already has IMO better discussion of places where the evidence base for EMDR is shaky outside the criticism section. Therefore, I would like to remove the section calling EMDR "pseudoscience". Bon_courage, as far as I can tell, believes these three sources should be considered completely independently from all the other sources. They also appear to believe that all the other sources are not particularly reliable. But I'll let them elaborate on their position more, as I honestly don't understand it very well. How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? Talk:Eye_movement_desensitization_and_reprocessing#"Pseudoscience"_section How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? I feel like Bon_courage is not listening to what I am saying, and I don't really understand what their argument is either. I feel like a mediator could: a) evaluate the relative strength of the arguments and come down in favor of one side or the other or at least b) suggest some sort of compromise other than keeping or deleting the section. Summary of dispute by Bon_courage Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. Update: other editor has said that they won't participate here and has tried to take this to WP:FTN, over my objection. Loki (talk) 18:03, 17 March 2023 (UTC) Volunteer Note - The filing party has not notified the other editor of this filing. Also, if the main issue is whether the label of "pseudo-science" is accurate, the fringe theory noticeboard can say either that a theory is fringe or that a theory is not fringe. Robert McClenon (talk) 05:57, 18 March 2023 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Bill D'Arcy

– New discussion.

Filed by Gladiator-Citizen on 09:29, 17 March 2023 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Bill D'Arcy (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Gladiator-Citizen (talk · contribs)
• The Drover's Wife (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The attempts to reconcile the dispute have ended in failure. Bill D'Arcy was jailed for sexual offences against children and served seven years jail. In the civil case when the victims went to sue for money the judge decided that his case could not be proved. This stayed on the site for several years but the "Drovers Wife" has disallowed it. He also disallowed a publicised effort by a practising psychologist to hold a forum on the D'Arcy, the notion of "recovered memory" etc. I personally discovered that two years before he was charged with any crime, he was publicly reported in the Queensland Courier Mail as having had sex with a 15 year old, had a baby with her, and had the baby adopted out. This was categorically denied by D'Arcy and the minor involved (in a remote report)but by this time his reputation had been ruined. I extensively studied these newspaper reports and concluded (as anyone would) that D'Arcy was ill, his safe Labor seat was coveted within the Labor Party, that the Liberal opposition went along with the false reports, that over enthusiastic campaigners against child sexual abuse jumped on the bandwagon. The lawyer who vehemently defended D'Arcy, though given publicity for his views, had a negative story ran against him as a lawyer. The newspaper published D'Arcy's name against all convention and on arguably specious grounds etc. This I documented most painstakingly from the Newspaper reports. Drover's Wife wiped out the lot despite my efforts to respect his views and negotiate.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

Bill D'Arcy

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

Assist me to find a way I can report the facts on Bill D'Arcy - especially a report on the period Aug- Sept 1998 when he was the victim of unsubstantiated allegations which ruined his reputation two years before he was accused and tried on a different charge. I have copies of the reports which I can scan and forward to anyone who is able to help

Summary of dispute by The Drover's Wife

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Bill D'Arcy discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer Note - The filing party has not notified the other editor on their user talk page. Also, the filing editor has not really attempted to discuss with the other editor, because posting walls of text is not discussion. However, that isn't reason in itself for not accepting a case. It is only a reason why the filing party should slow down and be willing to discuss. Waiting for notice to other editor. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:03, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
• Volunteer Note - This appears to be an effort to remove unfavorable material from a biography of a living person. The Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard might be an even better forum for this matter. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:26, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Carlton (disambiguation)

– New discussion.

Filed by BurgeoningContracting on 10:28, 17 March 2023 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Carlton (disambiguation) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• BurgeoningContracting (talk · contribs)
• Clarityfiend (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

I would not be requesting dispute resolution if it were not for the fact that either of those pages is quite slow and quick response is needed in uncertain issues like this, in which there is no precise policy when it comes up to this, as well as the fact that user is seemingly changing every page he or she comes across to the way they see fit without receiving a third party response. I suggested the other editor view WP:MOSDAB and  WP:LONGDAB for reference, but they refused to listen and "were that confident" that they were correct in their editing without yet receiving an answer as to how the People section should be named, which leads me to the point of contention. User:Clarityfiend believes that the People section of DAB pages should be changed to People and fictional characters. I tried to show precedent that it was not the way it had been done, but the user "corrected" them to include "fictional characters". It should be worth noting that this appears to be the only user to be making such changes to the subtitle People in DAB pages where names are involved.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

This discussion has not occurred on the talk page of the DAB article itself, but begain in User talk:Clarityfiend#Carlton - People. It was taken to a [[Help talk:Section#Section title dispute ]], but I suppose the other user must have believed it was better to delete it and moved the discussion to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Section title dispute.

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

A third party person or people making comment on this or possibly citing existing policy neither Clarityfiend or I could find when making our arguments.

Summary of dispute by Clarityfiend

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Does accuracy not count for anything anymore? None of the policies or guidelines BurgeoningContracting keeps referring to support their position that it doesn't. This is the way it's been done is not a valid reason to keep perpetuating an error.

Carlton (disambiguation) discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer Note - The discussion has, at this time, taken less than 24 hours, and has been on the other editor's talk page. Also, it is not clear to a volunteer at this board what the issue is. Try discussing on the article talk page for another 24 hours, and see if agreement can be reached, or if at least the parties can figure out what they disagree about. Robert McClenon (talk) 06:07, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

• Clarification: The disagreement is simple. BurgeoningContracting objects to my renaming a section from "People" to "People and fictional characters". Clarityfiend (talk) 00:33, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

• Volunteer Note - A Third Opinion as to the headings in the disambiguation list would be a good idea. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:49, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

South India

– New discussion.

Filed by Bobwikia on 02:44, 19 March 2023 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• South India (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Rasnaboy (talk · contribs)
• Bobwikia (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

"Dakshina Bharata" is a synonym in Hindi and sanskrit and an organization name which imposes Hindi in non-hindi speaking regions. An editor pushed this crap into the article "South India". South India has Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada, and Tulu like spoken languages. All these languages have its own synonym for "South India". Most South Indians speak in these languages only. Not Hindi and Sanskrit. Due to this, many users were reverting the "Dakshina Bharata" term.

Historians use "Peninsular India and Deccan" to address south Indian on their writings. None of them widely use "Dakshina Bharata". An editor keeps pushing his agenda without valid references and sources. He's not even understand what other users says. The term should be removed from the article's aka name to avoid misleading.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:South_India#Dakshin_Bharat 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:South_India#Dakshina_Bharath_pov_pushing

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

I believe if uninvolved & unbiased editors check the authenticity and reliability of the Pov injection "Dakshina Bharata", the issue may resolve soon.

Summary of dispute by Rasnaboy

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

This actually began as a simple issue (if it were an issue at all). One editor asked me why the term should be retained without a source and I added one found in the article itself. We then went on to discuss regarding the term's transliteration and usage and came to a consensus to add it with the addition of a terminal schwa as used by the South Indian languages [1]. Since then the article was vandalized several times, with many IPs removing the term (despite the discussion on the talk page) which we kept reverting. When User:Bobwikia started deleting this term, I reverted twice asking them to discuss first. When another editor reverted it, User:Bobwikia accused both of us of being socks and of belonging to certain community. They also accused me for pushing my POV [2]. I only asked User:Bobwikia to seek consensus with other editors before removing it. Nevertheless, my reason for retaining the term is that it is used primarily by both Kannada and Telugu people (even the people of Kerala use the term "Dhakshina") and that South India's culture is not solely dominated by the Dravidian party ideologies of the Tamil land (which oppose anything that originates from Sanskrit or Hindi as being anti-Tamil). That would be another politically motivated POV push on Non-Tamil people of South India. Rasnaboy (talk) 06:28, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

South India discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Rasnaboy accuses others of vandalism. I see no evidence of vandalism. Maproom (talk) 08:35, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

I did not accuse any user in particular of vandalism. I meant different IPs making the same deletion despite the talk page discussion without discussing further. It continued even after consensus was reached, which we kept reverting. Maybe I shouldn't have used the term "vandalized" here. Thanks. Rasnaboy (talk) 11:56, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

• Volunteer Note - The filing editor has not notified the other editor of the filing of this dispute. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:56, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Draft:Marshall Weber

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Cleshne on 03:54, 19 March 2023 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Draft:Marshall Weber (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Cleshne (talk · contribs) Dispute overview I have created quite a few biographical entries. I created this one with references, but was given feedback that there were not enough references. So I added more references. I believe that they arre reliable, they include mainstream newspapers and other arts sites. One of them was the website of a non profit that Wever founded. He has founded other non-profits as well, and has had a career as an artist. I could remove that reference, but not sure that is helpful. I am not sure what else to do. I stuck a big list of links ("more info") at the bottom, which is messy and could be removed but I am at a loss. The process has taken a long time, perhaps I did not see a notification when it was reviewed again. This article is more thorough than others that I have created without the push-back. I have a difficult time figuring out how to communicate with the various editors and reviewers, so may not have done everything possible. I got no response to my comment on the talk page. A consultant of some kind from "Wiki Submissions" contacted Marshall Weber to help him make the web page, but he is not the one writing it, and this is not a commercial endeavor. It seems weird that commercial (?) consultants are trolling the rejections.... How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Marshall_Weber - talk page How do you think we can help resolve the dispute? review the article and if it is somehow not up to standards, delete what needs deleting or explain what else needs to be done. Draft:Marshall Weber discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Battle of Busan (1592), Battle of Myeongnyang

– New discussion.

Filed by John21716 on 13:49, 20 March 2023 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Battle of Busan (1592) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
• Battle of Myeongnyang (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• John21716 (talk · contribs)
• たたたたたたたたったポンタ (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

In the talk page of two battles, which are Battle of Busan (1592), Battle of Myeongnyang, I frequently requested たたたたたたたたったポンタ to suggest the evidence that prove the following two points to resolve, which are the proof of the Japanese navy conquering the west coast of Jeolla-do during the second Japanese invasion of Korea (1597~1598), and the proof of the Japanese advancing and conquering Hanseong as well as the northern part of Korea after the battle of Busan. However, たたたたたたたたったポンタ is stiil refusing to provide such evidence, and he is repeating his argument that the two battles are the victory of the Japanese as well as the war itself. Contrary to his argument, I am against of admitting his argument, and the stalemate of the debate is still not being resolved.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Battle_of_Busan_(1592) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Battle_of_Busan_(1592)

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

I think you can help two users,including me by facilitating both users to provide reliable and clear sources, rather than original researches and mere arguments, to make a breakthrough and, if necessary, by providing third opinion or mediation.

Summary of dispute by たたたたたたたたったポンタ

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Battle of Busan (1592), Battle of Myeongnyang discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Killing of Tyre Nichols

– New discussion.

Filed by WikiWikiWayne on 15:17, 20 March 2023 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Killing of Tyre Nichols (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• WikiWikiWayne (talk · contribs)
• AgntOtrth (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Newbie SPA Editor insists that the content other editors make must only include exact words or wording used in the source. This good faith newbie SPA editor is rabid and militant about maintaining precise control of the article content. There are conduct issues, but that's another story, I assume good faith and give the benefit of the doubt for

their content control efforts and their tenacious conduct. Possibly they are not self-aware of how their content and conduct are perceived. I am not lecturing. I feel this editor is coachable and open to that but I do not know the process to pull that off nor do I have the bandwidth to be a sole coach for content & conduct. Please refer me to WP resources to help this editor tone down their conduct. I know you will only be addressing content. Please help this newbie SPA editor as I don't wish to malign or harm them and I suspect that they are an editor with great possibilities. Thank you.

They engage in copyvios, linkrot, poor grammar, misspellings, run-ons, lead too long, not using summary style, reverting content, and not understanding content essays, guidelines, policies, norms, or intent.

My coming here is to help them, not harm or blame them.

They add unnecessary content to talk pages by copying template content back to the talk page of the editor who templated them.

How have you tried to resolve this dispute before coming here?

• Talk:Killing_of_Tyre_Nichols
• Killing of Tyre Nichols:Revision history: Edit summaries & reverts & edits
• User talk:AgntOtrth

How do you think we can help resolve the dispute?

Let the newbie SPA editor know what they are doing is harming the encyclopedia and coach them on how to be an awesome editor, and to stop wikilawyering to support their content edits; stop reverting the content of good edits. Provide a support team to filter their content edits maybe in a personalized "pending changes" protocol until they internalize their own direct content edits. Teach them the need and how to build out references that contain full metadata and use the citation style in place.

• My only goal is for AgntOtrth to slow their roll, edit content within our norms better, and be an awesome, liked, productive, and appreciated Wikimedian. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 15:29, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by AgntOtrth

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

• I disagree with your claim of acted in good faith. You have engaged in edit warring on the article twice in 30 days. The first edit war you engaged, you reverted 3 edits from 3 different editors in a short period of time. You then placed a warning on my talk page accusing me of edit warring - that is not good faith, since you had just engaged in a edit war on the same article. In the last 24hr you reverted edits, even though another editor conduct copyright check that only 39% and that showed violations unlikely. You have been uncivil to me, and have not identified specific issues - you have made blanket statements. You blanked an entire article without identifying specific issues or utilizing the talk page in good faith. You blamed me for your choice to blank an entire article. You blanked section I did not edit - that is not acting in good faith. You have made almost 22% of the edits on that article, yet you accuse me of ownership - I have made less than 7% of the edits.

You reverted the article 3 time before you discussed the reverts on the talk page. I asked you for help in identifying and fixing issues, you did not provide help. AgntOtrth (talk) 16:12, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

AgntOtrth – Those are not considered reverts. My edits are encyclopedic – mainly polishing edits. MOS edits. Continuity edits. Archiving refs. Repairing refs. Fixing typos. I have not added much content to this article. Take care always. Cheers! {{u|WikiWikiWayne}} {Talk} 01:28, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Killing of Tyre Nichols discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.