Talk:Martin Brodeur

Style

I do believe that because Brodeur is such a unique goaltender, a section on his page should be devoted to his style of play. I think that a minor section under career should talk about his stats versus certain players; this is something he himself often discusses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbmagic93 (talk • contribs) 14:56, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

User:DesolesIII's edit

In case you were wondering, I reverted most of your edits because a large portion of the information was either speculative/unsourced (the discussion of the "A" Line), or incorrect (Brodeur has won 3 Vezinas). However, he has played 15 years and only made the All-Star Game 8 times (he was named to this year's team but opted not to play).Anthony Hit me up... 19:22, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

NPOV language

I dont know how you all missed it, but since this article is locked I cant fix it. In the final paragraph of "2004--Present," someone stuck a link to pest in front of Sean Avery's name. // 68.100.70.125 (talk) 17:26, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, I noticed that the pest link was appended with (ice hockey). I'm not that terribly up on hockey lingo, but it still should be looked at with someone with a little more insight and knowledge // 68.100.70.125 (talk) 17:27, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I blew that one. The proper link is pest (hockey), and I misinterpreted that. Oops. The red-link should still be fixed, being a GA article and all. // 68.100.70.125 (talk) 17:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Made a redirect so the red-link is gone. --Michael Greiner 19:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Push For the Front Page?

I think that we should try to get this on the front page for May 6 (Martin's B-Day). By then it will have been an FA article for over 2 years (which is 2 points on the TFA scale). Still have a while to go before we can request it, but it's just something to keep in mind. --Sportskido8 (talk)

Brodeur/Avery conflict

From the article: "Brodeur and Sean Avery refused to shake each other's hand." Is this accurate? From what I remember, Avery extended his hand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingdomcarts (talk • contribs) 23:59, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

After looking at the video, I guess it's accurate. It's kinda hard to tell what's going on with Avery's hand, but they clearly both intended to skate right by each other. Nevermind, sorry.Kingdomcarts (talk) 20:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Record breaking efforts

OK, I seriously think with the record being tied last night, (hopefully) broken Tuesday night, and all the edits to the page trying to update the stats and whatnot, this page needs to be on serious lockdown between now & whenever the record is broken. Otherwise we're going to deal with IP address vandals trying to throw in all kinds of nonsense (and pissed off Ranger fans still carrying an Avery grudge). Just a thought to save us all a lot of grief. Anthony Hit me up... 16:34, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

I think it should be clarified that his record breaking single season and career wins record include shootout wins, which represented a substantial rules change and are fundamentally different than winning a game by playing 5 on 5 or 4 on 4 hockey. Not an asterix per se, but something like "Most Single Season Wins (including Shootouts)"--Pelti (talk) 18:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with the above comment. While the introduction of a shootout certainly began a new "era" in the NHL, this can be said for any rule-change and the records broken subsequently. For instance, thanks to the point for an overtime-loss, the overall number of points earned by teams is higher. Any change in the number of games can do the same. The NHL doesn't differentiate between shootout wins and regulation/overtime wins. If they say "a win is a win is a win", then we should do the same. -Sme3 (talk) 03:10, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Is There anyone who know where to find assist stats and more statistic about brodeur? Brodeur is pursuing most assit record for a goaltender ( Barasso still hold the record with 48 ) and most point for a goalie. That would be great to include those stat. I find out on the net that by 2006 he had 26 assist and 1 goal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.35.167.48 (talk) 05:03, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't make any sense, Clearly he would have still broken Roy's wins record, but not nearly as quick, a "win is a win is a win" would make sense in a arguement only if Roy was able to win(or lose) all his games and not be forced to ties his entire career as Martin Brodeur hasn't recorded a single Tie to his name since the lock-out. When heading into a shoot-out he automatically has a 50/50 chance of winning simply by having his teammates out-score the other team where as Roy only had a 1/3 chance of winning the game vs a tie or a loss. The shoot-out era clearly gives goalies a bigger chance to rack up more wins than the previous years before the new overtime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.24.73.60 (talk) 23:34, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Why?

Why were the pictures moved around? The one in the red uniform looks better for the top - you can actually see his face. --Sportskido8 (talk) 18:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Because it's a side/backside photo that doesn't show him in game action or give us a look at his equipment. The current photo is pretty much the perfect free image. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 04:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I liked the older photo (the one Sportskido referred to) better. You see his face with a calm, yet intense expression which is so characteristic of Brodeur. Besides, the photos don't need to be action photos, take take a look at the Sean Avery page. sme3 (talk) 13:33, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, in that case, we have a nice profile picture that's a free image of Avery from the front without any gear on, which is just as good a photo as one of him playing hockey. But the Brodeur photo in question is still a side shot - you can't see his gear, and his face is still more difficult to see. I mean, it's a good photo, but I think there are better alternatives available for an infobox photo. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 13:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Page protected

Please stop edit warring. Take the next two weeks to discuss the disputes. When you've reached some sort of consensus, feel free to ask me on my talk page or request unprotection at WP:RFUP. - Rjd0060 (talk) 17:03, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

The lead

For two years, the lead in this article was barely touched, and it was fine like that. I don't understand why it needs to undergo a facelift now that Marty has broken the wins record. It is clear, concise and cohesive - anyone who is unfamiliar with Brodeur will gain a nice understanding of him just from the lead alone.

Do we really need these new changes? You want to clarify that he's a "player"...but it says it right in the first sentence that he has played his entire career with the Devils. That seems like sufficient evidence to me. --Sportskido8 (talk) 21:33, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

For me, the newer wording is clearer. I don't see any obvious benefit from the version you prefer. I'm not sure what you mean by 'cohesive' in this case, and why you think that is an advantage. Nothing significant has been removed from the lead and the reader still gets all the same information.

"MB (born ...) is a Canadian ice hockey player" is a clear, concise, unambiguous intro. We can't assume that readers who aren't sports fans at all will make the connection between 'goaltender' and 'has played'. They shouldn't have to click on a link to find out that a goaltender is a player. The next sentence has his position and career info - IMO, that info doesn't need to be in the first sentence - it doesn't define who he is.

The fact that Brodeur has been in the news recently maybe means this article has received more attention, and editors including myself have noticed areas that can be improved. That is basically how Wikipedia works. That the lead was stable for some time doesn't mean it can't be improved or shouldn't be touched. The feature article template on this talk page says "if you can update or improve it, please do so." The main objection to the recent changes seems to simply be some editors' attachment to the older version. --hippo43 (talk) 22:20, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

As it sits now (in its protected state, the older intro), it states that "Martin Pierre Brodeur (born May 6, 1972) is a Canadian professional ice hockey goaltender who has played his entire National Hockey League (NHL) career with the New Jersey Devils." To me, the "has played" part clearly states that he is a player.

I agree that we should improve the article when we can, even if it has been featured and stood the same for years. My only real objection is the part that says he led the team to Stanley Cups, playoffs, etc. This may overstate his role, is slightly POV, and can be an insult to other "leaders" on the team. (Whether it was "all but once", or "14 out of 15 seasons", I really don't care).

Just my two cents worth. --sme3 (talk) 02:25, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I am always open to new changes on this article; of course it can be improved. But as I've said in the past, I disapprove of items being completely transformed when they don't need to be. The point about him "leading" the team by himself is a valid one, so that can be re-written a little bit. However, I've never heard a complaint about the first sentence before, so I've assumed that nobody is confused by it. --Sportskido8 (talk) 16:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Sportskido - Taking a clause from my March 19th edit here[1]and removing the awkward structure of the first two sentences, how about: "In his 15-year tenure, he helped the team to win three Stanley Cup championships and to secure playoff berths in each year but one." -sme3 (talk) 02:17, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah that's fine. You might want to say he "has helped the team win three Stanley Cup championships and secure a playoff berth in eleven consecutive seasons...." or something like that. --Sportskido8 (talk) 14:38, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Section "International"

Please delete the "543" after "W" in the header of this section. The number here certainly does not mean anything. Thanks. --Roged (talk) 06:29, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Brodeur vs. Other Players?

Is this really necessary? --Sportskido8 (talk) 14:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think so. It says little about Brodeur versus other players - it just says he talks about them in his book. If there were a Wikipedia article about "Beyond the Crease", it might belong there (not that I suggest one be created!). It is interesting though, and it might be appropriate (in condensed form) in the paragraph about his book. -Sme3 (talk) 15:44, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

According to the New York Daily News, "his statistics are artificially inflated playing behind a team that perfected the defensive trap - and ruined hockey in the process. [2] CashRules (talk) 08:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Cash, you added this same sentence to the article, and it has been reverted. An encyclopedia is a place for facts, not analysis. --Sme3 (talk) 12:22, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Related to another famous Canadian/Quebecois goalie Richard Brodeur ?

No. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dc2000 (talk • contribs) 23:11, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Canadian or Canadian-American?

An edit war is beginning to brew. We know that Brodeur was born in Canada and recently became an American citizen -- he holds dual-citizenship. But does this make him "Canadian American"? According to the Wikipedia article on Canadian American, the term describes "an American of Canadian descent." There is no reference to citizenship or birthplace. (This, in the same way that the term "African American" refers to ancestry - the person may have never set foot in Africa). Yet, I look at the Bobby Holik article, another player born outside of the USA that obtained American citizenship, and he is described as "Czech-American". So, in the lead sentence, should we use the birthplace (Canadian), citizenship (Canadian-American), ancestry (Canadian), or current home (American)? Me Three (talk to me) 13:21, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

MVP of the decade in the NHL

Hi, what about adding some information about Brodeur being the MVP of the decade in the NHL? I think it is a valuable fact and should be mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.100.136.166 (talk) 13:55, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

The source here says he was selected "by a panel of NHL.com writers and other hockey experts." Being on NHL.com, it bears credibility, but is it an official award or honor? (Meaning: have there been any other MVP's of prior decades?). I'd suggest you be bold and add it. Just make sure you include the reference to the NHL.com site to give it credibility. Me Three (talk to me) 15:12, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Well I would add it since I definitely consider it worth mentioning (even if it's not an official award), the problem is I am not a native speaker so someone else should probably do it. Cheers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.88.128.146 (talk) 01:03, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

File:Brodeurbook.jpg listed for deletion

A file used in this article, File:Brodeurbook.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. --SkotyWA^T_C 15:42, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Personal Life Section

I noticed this phrase -- "Brodeur is regarded as a brilliant chef and an engaging raconteur in his spare time.[8]" -- and the reference is effectively dead. Also, using the term "chef" typically denotes a trained professional, not just "someone who cooks really well," although the word "chef" has essentially been deprecated enough to the point where it can mean that nowadays. Wondering if that should be changed (both a term other than "chef" and the reference link itself). Crimson667 (talk) 12:57, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Blues?

Why is there no updated picture from the press conference showing him with a Blues uniform on? It's his most recent team, that should be his2602:304:CFD3:2EE0:747C:4CF:F28D:A672 (talk) 07:50, 3 December 2014 (UTC) article picture.

Featured Article issues

There's a lot of unsourced content in here, which in itself would make it automatically fail a GAN/FAC if it was nominated today. The prose has some issues as well, and could use a copyedit which I think I can take care of at some point, but I'm sure I wouldn't have the time or motivation to go through and source the half of the article that needs it. Would anyone be interested in taking this one on? Gloss 07:00, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I had thought the same thing when I watchlisted this article. This article was promoted in 2007. Standards have undoubtedly tightened since then, and the time has allowed what this article was to go to rot, to a degree. I don't have the time to fix it personally. I may put it up for review after the hockey season, if it's not better by then. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:17, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Article update needed following retirement.

Following the announcement of Brodeur's retirement, we're going to need someone to updated the small St Louis Blues section of the article, covering his leave of absence and his role in the front office. I'd do it but not too knowledgeable on the situation. I did however update the info bar and his career statistics to include his short tenure with the Blues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spilia4 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

I'd go further and say that everything in the article post 2009 needs to be re-written. There are too many "On such-and-such a date, X happened" sentences. Sxg169 (talk) 18:51, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Brodeur30.jpg vs Martin Brodeur 2012.png as main picture.

Brodeur30.jpg

Martin Brodeur 2012.png

Hello!

I've seen this page a few times, and, to be honest, I'm finding that I particularly like the 2006 photo of him, as it is a particularly striking pose, whereas the 2012 photo isn't nearly as striking. Both are excellent inclusions for the article, but, I find that, for the 'front page', so to speak, I prefer.

I've already made the swap, but what do you think? I'd like to see your answers before any reversions occur. Also, I'm trying to figure out how to replace the existing image with an enlarged version that I've prepared, as the current one is rather small. If someone can tell me how to do that, I'd greatly appreciate it, since this would qualify as a minor improvement per the guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Legacy (talk • contribs) 02:57, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

I think you're right -- the 2006 photo is a better photo and also shows his name. There are, however, two tiny ways that one might argue in favour of the 2012 photo: the 2012 photo is more recent and it also is more clear to a non-hockey fan that the 2012 photo is of a hockey goaltender. All in all, I think the 2006 photo is better for the reasons that you mention. Sxg169 (talk) 17:23, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

True, though, on the subject of goaltending equipment, you can easily tell that the glove on his left hand, though mostly hidden, is unmistakably a goal-tending glove. That said, I'm glad we're in agreement. :) The Legacy (talk) 07:49, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Martin Brodeur/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Still has a long way to go, but it definitely classifies as a B at this point. Sportskido8 17:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Last edited at 17:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 23:18, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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