Hello Mark, how’s it going?
Nice to see you again, Dan. I didn’t realise it was going to be you interviewing me. I thought you’d be some fucking London Billy Bragg type. The LP [1] has taken a while to come out as I was a bit poorly but I’m okay now.
I’m glad you’re feeling better. The Fall turned 40 last year, did you celebrate?
I have to be reminded of these things. I don’t fucking think about it.
Was there any period when you thought the Fall wasn’t going to make it to another major milestone?
About every fucking three years! But I’m very pleased with the group now. They are the real Fall, I don’t count the rest before them.
TimelineMark E Smith: his career highlights
Show
From post-punk beginnings in Manchester to racking up 31 studio albums, Mark E Smith has one of the most impressive careers in British indie
Mark E Smith formed the band in Prestwich with Martin Bramah, Una Baines and Tony Friel. By the time of the band's debut album Live at the Witch Trials, recorded in a single day, only Bramah remained from the initial lineup – Baines and Friel the first to go in the band's enormous number of personnel changes. There have been 66 members in all.
One of the most highly-regarded of the band's albums, Hex Enduction Hour distilled their essence: chaotic sonic mess washing around a driving rhythm section, all of it shot through with Smith's scabrous ranting.
This cover of the Holland-Dozier-Holland Motown track became the Fall's only top 30 hit. Most of their other singles would skulk around the lower reaches of the top 100, though others from this period – like Hit the North, Victoria and Jerusalem – would flirt with success.
Smith didn't only work with the Fall – he collaborated with Michael Clark's contemporary dance company on a work about William of Orange, wrote a play about Pope John Paul I, made a well-regarded album with German electronic duo Mouse on Mars as Von Südenfed, and guested with Damon Albarn's cartoon band Gorillaz.
John Peel said the Fall were his favourite band, and they recorded more sessions for his BBC radio show than any other artist – 24 in all. Martin Bramah remembered: "He wanted to admire Mark from afar, and Mark was smart enough to know that."
Smith's first marriage was to Brix Smith, later Brix Smith Start, in 1983 – she played guitar in the Fall. He later married Saffron Prior, who ran the Fall's fan club, and then Eleni Poulou, who played synths.
The band's final album came out last year, and hit the UK Top 40, bringing their total number of studio albums to 31. It was described in the Observer as "a stop-start marriage of demonic rock and kraut-punk in which Smith cackles and appears to speak in tongues" – business as usual, then.
How’s life in the band without Elena? [2]
Fine. A new bloke, Mike, has come in. Prince’s manager once told me that I was the only person other than Prince who can recruit from the streets. Which was very flattering.
Are you a Prince fan?
No. They’re weird aren’t they, Prince fans?
I guess I’m weird then. Do you like much new music?
The standard of music these days is fucking terrible. Being poorly you have to watch shit like Jools Holland. A lot of it sounds like when I was 15 and I’d go round to a long-haired guy’s flat to score a joint and they’d always put on some fucking lousy Elton John LP. That sounds like Ed Sheeran to me, a duff singer songwriter from the 70’s you find in charity shops.
This video has been removed. This could be because it launched early, our rights have expired, there was a legal issue, or for another reason.
How did you feel about the BBC reporting you were dead? [3]
Obviously it was the BBC, the idiots. It was stopped in minutes by Fall fans. I was still ill around that time but was starting to feel better and somebody comes in and says, “by the way, you’re dead”.
Have you ever heard the song I Am Mark E Smith by the Fat White Family?
No but people say it’s really good.
They played before you at Glastonbury in 2015, did you see them?
[Starts laughing maniacally] They got a bit cheeky so they were taught a lesson, I don’t think they’re fans anymore. They came and sat next to us and thought they were it. Big mistake. I was giving a glass of champagne to the lads before we went on and one of them just walks up and I just threw it in his face. He was showing off and there was a bit of a standoff. [4] I like the stuff of theirs I’ve heard though. It was a pretty weird day that, the Dalai Lama was there.
What do you like to do at home?
I write a lot. I’m getting into DVDs. I’m not a box set man, Breaking Bad and all that, that’s going fucking nowhere. I read a lot of journals on old sci-fi.
I know you’re a big Philip K Dick fan. Have you seen the new Blade Runner?
I think the original Blade Runner is the most obscene film ever made, I fucking hated it. The Man in the High Castle is one of my favourite books; how they fucked that TV show up I don’t know. It gets blander and blander. In the book the level of comprehension of that world is fucking astounding, in the show it’s just everybody going around normally except they’ve got swastika armbands on. The only good Philip K Dick film is Total Recall, it’s faithful to the book. Arnie gets it. I was physically sick watching A Scanner Darkly, it was like an episode of Cheers painted over [5] except they all smoke dope and imagine women with no clothes on.
Is it important for you to remain angry?
Yeah. People still cross the road from me; I’ve still got that. I can clear a pub when I want to. It’s a talent.
Did you vote in the general election?
I didn’t make it out. There is a Labour woman from Salford I like though [6]. I enjoyed Nick Clegg losing his seat and it also proved how clueless all these political journalists are. The barmaid knows more about politics then they do, they’re all fucking bluffers.
Years ago you told me you were offered a BBC 6Music show, would you like to do one yet?
No, I’d love to do radio but think of the politics involved. I mean they have Guy fucking Garvey on, don’t they? It’s the kiss of death. Imagine having to say hello to Marc Riley every day. [7]
Do you ever get nervous before a gig?
Yeah, I get it bad for hours before. All these cities I go to, I never see them. They may be the most beautiful places in the world but I’ll just usually go to the nearest bar. I need a couple of hours by myself. I’d worry if I didn’t feel that way. I’m not a frightened person but I’m usually shitting myself.
Who would play you in a film of your life?
Rip Torn. Oh, he’s dead isn’t he? [8] I’d really like a dwarf. I like things like that. [9]
Footnotes
[1] The final Fall album, New Facts Emerge, was released in July 2017.
[2] Smith’s wife and band member, Elena Poulou, left the group in 2016.
[3] When Smith turned 60 this year the BBC mistakenly reported his death.
[4] This altercation and exchange of drinks explains Smith’s wet trousers at Glastonbury, which some publications suggested was urine.
[5] Richard Linklater’s film employs an interpolated rotoscope animation technique.
[6] Rebecca Long-Bailey.
[7] DJ Marc Riley is an ex member of the Fall, who Smith fired.
[8] Rip Torn is alive.
[9] Michael J Anderson perhaps?
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