User talk:Adam78

Archive: January 2019 – October 2023.

rézen, rezen

If you want to add a second superessive form to réz and tehén, the correct template is {{hu-decl-ek}}. The old declension used {{hu-decl-ek|tehé|n|et|stem=tehen|sup=tehén}} which displayed the same table as the current {{hu-infl-nom|tehene|e|stem2=tehén}}. Also check out {{hu-decl-ok}} for the documentation of the sup parameter (this documentation should also be added to {{hu-decl-ek}}). The spe_sg line is getting too complex for me to make changes. Panda10 (talk) 21:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! I think I managed to expand it. (The parameter "stem" could also be documented, although there is an example for its use below.) Adam78 (talk) 22:18, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Suffix definition format

I'm in the process of updating the suffixes to bring them up to standard. I'm almost done with the conjugational suffixes but since some of them are identical to noun-forming suffixes, I'd like to know what you think about adding {{ngd}} and rephrasing the definition.

Example current format:

(noun-forming suffix) Added to a noun or a verb to form a noun.

Proposed format (with {{ngd}} and rephrasing):

(noun-forming suffix) Forms nouns from nouns and verbs.

Finnish editors use the latter. Another option is to leave it as is, or just adding {{ngd}}. Thanks. Panda10 (talk) 19:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

This might not be a good idea. I'm reading other definitions, such as "Added to a stem to form a verb to indicate repetitive action. No longer productive.", or "Added to a cardinal number to form a fraction." Not sure how to rephrase these if I wanted to follow the above proposal. Maybe I just should add {{ngd}}. Panda10 (talk) 21:25, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Template:str crop

Hi - please don't blindly copy templates from Wikipedia. Theknightwho (talk) 19:16, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay. Could you please adjust it so it can work? Adam78 (talk) 19:17, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Adam78 The correct template is Template:str rightmost. In future, please ask at the WT:Grease pit if you don't know, because copying templates from Wikipedia leads to a lot of duplication and creates a maintenance headache for those of us who maintain templates and modules. Theknightwho (talk) 19:19, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Theknightwho I'm afraid you overlooked something. "Crop" was meant to remove the last N characters, while rightmost results in the rightmost N characters. I need the former function, so {{crop|abcd|1}} should yield "abc", rather than "d" (the result of str rightmost). So what is the recommended procedure now? Adam78 (talk) 19:27, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Adam78 {{#invoke:string|sub|[your string]|1|-2}} will crop the final character. Theknightwho (talk) 19:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I thought I'd have to resort to #expr and str len, but this solution is nicer.

You might as well consider creating an appropriate "str crop" though, since it exists on Wikipedia, so users can rightfully expect it to exist on Wiktionary as well, which is specialized in manipulating words. Adam78 (talk) 19:42, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Adam78 The issue with templates like that is that they don't have very intuitive names, whereas the functions in Module:string are generally more powerful which means they can be applied in a wider set of circumstances. That makes code easier to understand, compared to having {{str right}}, {{str rightmost}}, {{str left}}, {{str crop}} etc. all doing similar but slightly different things. Theknightwho (talk) 19:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

{{hu-conj-szom-ud-usz}}

This template is listed in User:JeffDoozan/lists/template params/errors as having a bad parameter (2 with value of ud). I checked the template and there is no parameter 2 in the code, only in the documentation. There are 7 instances (alszik, elalszik, etc.), is it okay if I remove the ud parameter from those entries? Also, please double check Jeff's error list, there are other Hungarian templates with errors. I corrected those that were clear to me but the new conjugation templates are too complex for me to understand. Thanks. Panda10 (talk) 16:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

@Panda10 Thank you! I corrected those that don't affect widely use templates (out of caution) and I implemented the parameter as it had been already documented for {{hu-conj-eszik}}. Many instances are not listed at hu-conj, though, only the first ten. Do you think we could ask the bot admin to let us see the full list for this section?

On the other hand, I'm looking for a solution to have the archaic second-person-singular -l form of non-sibilant-stem -ik verbs displayed among their other also-subj forms, such as mosdol for mosdik, of course in parentheses and/or in a smaller font (cf. Nyelvi változások a korban → Alaktani kérdések). It's theoretically encoded but it's still not displayed. I think all the other archaic forms mentioned here have been already included in these new templates. Adam78 (talk) 18:45, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for making the corrections. I updated the documentation for {{hu-conj-szom-ud-usz}}. Jeff is regenerating the error list in every few days or weeks, I'm sure you can ask him to provide all instances for hu-conj. I don't know what to do about the visibility of the archaic second-person-singular. Grease pit would be the best place to ask. Panda10 (talk) 19:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

fürdik, pottyant

When I try to save changes to the above two verbs, I get the same warning message:

Warning: Template:hu-conj-unified is calling Template:hu-conj-unified/doWork with more than one value for the "sz-asz-ol" parameter. Only the last value provided will be used.

I was able to save the corrections I made, I just wanted to let you know about the warning. Panda10 (talk) 16:38, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

@Panda10 Thank you; I think I've fixed it. Adam78 (talk) 17:11, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

taxis

This is listed in Tótfalusi, István. Idegenszó-tár: Idegen szavak értelmező és etimológiai szótára (’A Storehouse of Foreign Words: an explanatory and etymological dictionary of foreign words’). Budapest: Tinta Könyvkiadó, 2005. →ISBN as /takszisz/ and both senses are biology related. Panda10 (talk) 17:31, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Yes, I found it too. I left a bit long hidden commentary in the code, the following: the only source seems to be Tótfalusi, but he doesn't distinguish between the senses, and I couldn't find any biology text(book)s where "takszisz" or "taxisz" is given as a recommended pronunciation; apparently, it's tacitly supposed to be pronounced the same way as it's written, with an [ʃ] sound (?); also, scientific words from Greek roots are normally transliterated in educational texts, cf. szintaxis, not *syntaxis in Hungarian. Therefore, if a Greek word is written in a contemporary Hungarian text with an "s" (not "sz"), I'd rather assume it's an [ʃ] sound. We should possibly confirm it somehow. Adam78 (talk) 17:45, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Both senses are listed in Tolcsvai Nagy, Gábor. Idegen szavak szótára (’A Dictionary of Foreign Words’). Budapest: Osiris Kiadó, 2007. →ISBN. It also lists a third one as -taxis (utótagként, as in fototaxis). Pronunciation of the biology term is /takszisz/, and of the utótag /-takszisz/. Panda10 (talk) 18:30, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

The same is in Bakos, Ferenc. Idegen szavak és kifejezések szótára (’A Dictionary of Foreign Words and Phrases’). Budapest: Akadémiai Kiadó, 2006. →ISBN . Panda10 (talk) 18:33, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I find it a bit unlikely that such an important piece of information (pronouncing the "s" as "sz") would be omitted from educational materials such as this or this, especially if it's contrary to the practice of writing common scientific words phonetically (and pronouncing them as written) and especially if its prefixes are spelled in accordance with pronunciation e.g. in fototaxis and kemotaxis (as opposed to phototaxis, chemotaxis, which would suggest [sz]). Anyway, I've just sent an email on this matter to the language consulting service of Hungarian Research Centre for Linguistics. Maybe they'll have the time to reply before Christmas. I wonder if they can possibly consult a biologist or biology teacher to find out the actual usage common among the experts. Adam78 (talk) 13:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)