Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Simferopol incident

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The decision of whether or not to merge this article should continue to be discussed on the article's talk page. ‑Scottywong | spill the beans _ 18:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Simferopol incident

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Russia-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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According to the BBC article cited for the creation of this article, None of the accounts can be independently confirmed. Wikipedia is not a place for unconfirmed rumors and hearsay Cmoibenlepro (talk) 02:27, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There are literally hundreds of articles from every single news web about this article, HUNDREDS. Its not a bunch of rumors, there hard facts. Its a fact that troops stormed the base, its a fact that two soldiers died, its a fact that the base was taken, what more do you want. In almost every conflict both sides have different perceptions of what happened!!! Common logic!! EK728 0:6:54, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Keep; happened, it's real. -221.186.242.37 (talk) 03:31, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This article is full of rumors, and it's roughly violate Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. I see an attempt to spread someone's point of view to others. Do you want Wikipedia become a part of information war between stakeholders? I think this article should be deleted or rewrite it to neutral. --Melee (talk) 05:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

trying to keep it neutral, it is now being investigated by both sidesRonaldDuncan (talk) 11:06, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This incident was not confirmed by reliable sources, and was not confirmed independently. Thus a good reason for deletion. Also, even if the event was real, it is not notable enough to have its own article. Not all verifiable events are suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia. What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_newspaper Canadianking123 (talk) 14:09, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Finally it may be a hoax. It appears that there were not even military combat between Ukrainian and Russian soldiers. A member of Right-Sector was arrested for these homicides. I still think that this article should be deleted, as there no independent confirmation of the events. And as Canadianking123 said, it is not notable enough (given the mystery around), these are rumors. - Cmoibenlepro (talk) 21:48, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

They just had the funeral today, and both sides agree that the 2 people were killed the events that resulted in their death are disputed and under investigation, which is the subject of the articleRonaldDuncan (talk) 11:06, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - AfD is not cleanup This event unquestionably took place, and is part of an important political crisis. Yes, it needs to reviewed for accuracy and NPOV, but it should not be deleted. Buckshot06 (talk) 18:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How could it be an important event if we are not even sure it happened? It could be only a murder. Cmoibenlepro (talk) 21:54, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And WWII was a mere incident of simple mass murder? N-Korean atrocities are not sufficiently documented, etc.? ~ Pietadè (talk) 22:13, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Both sides agree that 2 named people were killed, and 2 people were injuredRonaldDuncan (talk) 18:53, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, i.e., Keep ~ Pietadè (talk) 21:50, 21 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - information continues to come out there are now at least 3 view points, initial reaction from both sides press and the Crimean InvestigationRonaldDuncan (talk) 18:53, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - On the article's talk page there is a merge discussion. I am against merger, and that looks like the consensus, but it is a duplication of the debate here, there are also 4 headings contested deletion where people (myself included) did not figure out that here was the place for the deletion discusssion and these are clearly votes to keep RonaldDuncan (talk) 18:58, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There is no question that the attack occurred as its been covered by multiple reliable media sources. Also, when the BBC claims that the accounts can't be individually confirmed, that just means accounts about what happened during the midst of the attack came from individuals, not an extensive government investigation (and the article does a good job of highlighting this). What actually occurred chronologically during the attack may be open to dispute, but this does not mean the article is inherently non-notable.Spirit of Eagle (talk) 04:23, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, this incident broke a peace truce between the Ukrainian and the Russian military and should be investigated closer. Apparently the Crimean self-defense are simply Russian mercenaries and some of them veterans of Chechen wars. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 22:46, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, pretty notable incident with plenty of coverage, first casualties of the Crimean crisis Alex Bakharev (talk) 23:35, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There were casualties before that. So this article is not very notable.

Keep or Merge as per above arguments. --173.51.221.24 (talk) 00:05, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or Delete This article is untrustworthy. It should be merged into 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine and should only occupy a maximum of three paragraphs. This seems to be an article written entirely from speculation and people who have no idea exactly what happened. Maybe when more truthful information is revealed. -- Kndimov (talk) 01:43, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Canadianking123 LokiiT (talk) 05:51, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There are now extensive reports of the joint funerals and that both sides are investigating. The article is being updated to reflect the additional informationRonaldDuncan (talk) 11:06, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or Merge: It has multiple accounts. Quality can be improved, but there are appear to be a good 10,000 articles on this.--Martin Berka (talk) 15:52, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep notable incident. --Nug (talk) 11:03, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep even if the facts are muddied or the event did not occur, it seems to have significant coverage in reliable sources. That's the notability threshold for inclusion. POV issues can be handled editorially. Recentism should be the main concern and covering this in its own article handles that better than bloating Simferopol. —Ost (talk) 19:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.