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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep, sources have been pointed out, passes Notability requirements. Possible bad faith AFD? Non Admin Close, DustiSPEAK!! 13:48, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Real World/Road Rules Challenge

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Real_World/Road_Rules_Challenge (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - (View log)
  • There is no rush to delete here. This article has been around for years completely unsourced, so I won't call it a rush. Just because there are sources out there doesn't mean anything because they are not in this article. Unless sources are actually applied to the article, it is a fairy tale without any basis for preservation. Sure, in theory we could wait around forever for the article to be made better, but Wikipedia is not a storage place for half baked ideas. This should be deleted and when someone does have the time or desire to properly source the article, they can rewrite it and it will be reviewed on those merits alone. As for the concern that this will be recreated in lessor form, there are many ways to stop that from happening, including restricting the recreation of the specific title. If Real World/Road Rules Challenge: 2008 can be deleted with sources, for not having good enough sources I don't see why this article should stick around with no sources.Zredsox (talk) 17:28, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Wikipedia is in fact a storage place for half baked ideas. That's the whole wiki concept. – sgeureka t•c 17:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • So basically it is a double standard. Some articles need sources and are deleted otherwise - while others do not need to be sourced and anything goes. I think I am beginning to understand how things work around here.Zredsox (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Plenty of good sources exist, and AfD is not cleanup (we're already at top-level, nothing/nowhere to merge). – sgeureka t•c 17:58, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy keep, WP:POINT violation. Corvus cornixtalk 22:53, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You wanted sources? I already posted several in my vote, but i guessit bears repeating Doc StrangeMailboxLogbook 14:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And I guess it bears repeating that they need to be in the appended to the proper points within the article. It does absolutely nothing to post them here. Zredsox (talk) 19:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • This is about cleanup. You nominated this for deletion when you could have put tags on the article requesting sources. AfD is not to be used to cleanup articles. You were unable to provide reliable sources for your pet article, that's why it got deleted and why your DRV failed. Don't mix apples and oranges. Corvus cornixtalk 16:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • Stop making this personal. Obviously you threw objectivity out the window when you came here to whine. My DRV did not fail, I withdrew it. I am just going to repost that challenge article as soon as we go through the process here and prove that sources are not needed to keep any of these challenge articles - something you fully agree with (from reading your recent posts.) In the end I'll get what I need. However I appreciate your concern and please stayed tuned for more exciting RW/RR action.64.89.250.90 (talk) 18:32, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And it will be speedy deleted as recreated material. Sourcing for a possible upcoming season of a TV show is by necessity more strict than for seasons that have already passed. The result of this AfD has no bearing whatsoever on the previous (and possible future) AfDs for Real World/Road Rules Challenge: 2008. DCEdwards1966 18:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
New material and sourcing has come to light. Just because a few people want to make a point by deleting it does not mean it is not valid or notable. It will keep being recreated and eventually it will remain. All the information that was in it initially will be there 6 months from now (being it was 100% correct) so deleting it out of some sort of vendetta is quite childish to say the least. What I have garnered from this discussion is that deletion is personal around here and has nothing to do with the quality of an article. BTW: Are you saying that The Real World: Brooklyn article should be the next to go being it is not even in production yet? I totally agree! Zredsox (talk) 19:22, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If it is reposted without reliable sources it will be deleted. Obviously, if there are reliable sources it will be kept. DCEdwards1966 20:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Each season of The Real World/Road Rules Challenge can easily be confirmed and sourced from MTV's website as well as imdb.com or tv.com, for example: Battle of the Sexes 2 and The GauntletEliRykellm (talk) 00:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I understand much of what is here can be sourced. What I am saying is that is it not sourced. It could have been sourced years ago but was not and unless that changes we are left with an article that doesn't even meet the lowest standards of quality on Wikipedia. Eventually you need to draw the line and decide - Is this article going to be sourced? Zredsox (talk) 02:39, 18 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Keep

Jaime Moore 19:27, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Keep per all the above and a bit of advice to Zredsox: While you may have felt bitten, perhaps justifiably, by the deletion of your article, it is a considered a severe breach of wiki etiquette to try to retaliate by making a point to delete other articles which you perceive to suffer from similar problems. They actually don't—these articles are being kept because reliable sources exist to back them up, regardless of whether they are currently cited in the articles or not. If reliable sources exist, then the lack of them in an article is a problem solved by editing, not deletion. On the other hand, your own article was based on sources which were not deemed reliable by the community, so no matter how many similar sources you add to your article it will not make a difference, it will still be deleted and you will be perceived as a disruptive editor if you keep recreating without community consensus (please realize this is not a threat, but an observation of how the community generally reacts). On the other hand, why not have your article put in your userspace (I'm sure Fram would be willing to, and even if not, there are many admins who will) where you can work on it to your heart's content until MTV makes an verified announcement and mainstream newspapers and magazines start covering the show? Remember that there is no deadline here, and you can be sure that if this show is going to air, unambiguously reliable sources will eventually exist, and if you are patient, you can then bring this to DRV again and get this article back into the mainspace. DHowell (talk) 01:45, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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