Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Peter Crocker

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 13:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Crocker

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Disputed draftification. Fails WP:BIO. It is difficult with things so long ago. Even so, I am struggling to see what makes this industrious man notable in a Wikipedia sense. He appears to have had a decent, unexceptional life, like so many of his peers. WP:ROTM 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and New York. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have personally done research on this topic as a professional in the field and can vouch for this page to be published, as is.

I’m confused as to what you mean by “unexceptional”. It’s as if you haven’t read the article, where it is mentioned that he was a postmaster, civil war veteran, trustee of Philippi School and city planner.

He was an early pioneer of Sarasota, Florida and is grouped in with his notable peers (A.B. Edwards, William Whitaker, and John Hamilton Gillespie) in various newspapers which I have provided citation to. The cemetery he established still exists and the church he built is on the historical register and owned by the historical society. Two other Wikipedia pages (Crocker cemetery and Crocker church) reference him as the founder. He deserves to have a page where readers of the other pages can find out who he was and what he did. When citizens of Sarasota go to learn more about their history it is important they have a resource (Wikipedia) to learn about this man and his contributions to the early community. A surplus of information is always better than a lack of it.

Your grounds for deletion, not "notable in Wikipedia sense," have no pertinent standing whatsoever. Htystudent (talk) 15:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In addition to the source already listed within the article, here is some verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support the claim of notability. Though, viewing these may be an issue since the database requires a subscription. The links look identical, but they are all individual articles that mention Peter Crocker.

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer Htystudent (talk) 16:12, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the Church article was sent back to draft and the cemetery looks rather non-notable as well. Oaktree b (talk) 23:08, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The church article, if you reviewed the sources, likely meets the notability guidelines and should be published. However, it has not been reviewed. Htystudent (talk) 18:30, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment both Crocker Cemetery and Crocker Church were created by the same editor as this article, in the past week. Their existence on-wiki does not demonstrate anything. Walsh90210 (talk) 15:56, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but were they moved to articles for deletion? That means they were significant enough to still exist, so this page should be as well. Unless you think Peter Crocker did not make the standard for notability, which I have just demonstrated that he likely does. I will include that information in this reply as well.
In addition to the multiple sources already listed within the article, here is some verifiable, objective evidence that the subject has received significant attention from independent sources to support the claim of notability. Though, viewing these may be an issue since the database requires a subscription. The links look identical, but they are all individual articles that mention Peter Crocker.

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Access Newspaper Archive Institutional Version | Viewer

Htystudent (talk) 16:15, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Htystudent I have left you advice on your user talk page, Most people find such advice of value. I hope you do as well. On a technical matter, I was not allowed under WP:DRAFTIFY to return this to draft once more. My two options since I was not going to edit it were to send it here, or to ignore it. I chose to send it here for community discussion.

Any editor, you included, is entitled to offer Draftification (please place it in 'bold at the start of the line, and on a new line). The deletion discussion is a direct result of your moving it to mainspace before it was ready. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:25, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I am not averse to the outcome of this discussion being to send back to draft for further development. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:43, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Military and Florida. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I cannot view any of the newspaper links to validate whether they include WP:SIGCOV. I agree that Crocker seems like a WP:ROTM individual, but without being able to view the sources I cannot weigh in with a !vote either way. I have not been able to turn up any other appropriate sources to establish notability. If the page creator were to request draftification I would support that. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:18, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dclemens1971 I have told them the same thing on their user talk page 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:21, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Served in the army and worked in a lighthouse, this is not notable. Likely better suited to a local history website, I'm not seeing notability for our standards here. Oaktree b (talk) 23:04, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You really are very funny with what you choose to read and ignore. It actually does state in the article that Peter Crocker laid out the roads in the area, was postmaster, founder of a cemetery and a church, trustee of one of the first schools in the area and a commissioner. Htystudent (talk) 03:25, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I am able to view the Newspaper Archive sources through WP:TWL and I think most WP:XC users can as well (though I'm not positive). I don't plan on going through all of the newspaper links above, but I have looked over the ones in the article currently:

FN3 (December 1911) - Burb placed in the paper by his wife and an acquaintance expressing gratitude for kindness shown by others during his sickness and death.
FN5 (March 1958) - The region's "Oldest Native" is apparently the daughter of Peter Crocker, and he is briefly mentioned as an Albany native, soldier, and Key West lighthouse tender.
FN6 (March 1906) - One mention in the "County Commissioner's Proceedings" as being designated to mark out a road.
FN7 (January 1907) - One mention in a list of "other growers" in the region.
FN8 (August 1977) Mentioned as introducing coffee beans to the region

All told, this individual seems quite WP:ROTM. He is mentioned in the newspapers, sure, but these mentions are almost all plainly trivial; there is no WP:SIGCOV. AviationFreak💬 01:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: The Crockers; Church, cemetery bear family's name - Document - Gale Power Search Htystudent (talk) 16:03, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The daughter spoke in depth about her father, Peter Crocker, so I don't see how that cannot count. Htystudent (talk) 18:31, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I have now been able to access the newspaper archive. I have not checked every archive relating to the subject, and I have taken into account the stye of the era - brevity. Even with this taken into account I only find passing mentions, public notices etc. WP:SIGCOV is not fulfilled. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:29, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The ones linked directly to the article discuss him more in length, as I mentioned. Htystudent (talk) 13:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I see some news/coverage in media, but not GNG here. LusikSnusik (talk) 10:26, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://go.gale.com/ps/retrieve.do?tabID=T004&resultListType=RESULT_LIST&searchResultsType=SingleTab&retrievalId=951a568c-e995-41e5-b445-f4c298ac82f7&hitCount=10&searchType=BasicSearchForm&currentPosition=1&docId=GALE%7CA74049424&docType=Article&sort=Relevance&contentSegment=ZGPN&prodId=GPS&pageNum=1&contentSet=GALE%7CA74049424&searchId=R2&userGroupName=sara65726&inPS=true

This whole article is solely about him and his family Htystudent (talk) 12:24, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Simply not notable by Wiki standards. Intothat darkness 12:30, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Intothatdarkness and other commentators above. Original author does not seem to have a firm grasp on notability and sourcing guidelines. Kazamzam (talk) 05:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.