Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Causal Ocean

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 08:34, 24 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Causal Ocean

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I've failed to find reliable sources (in English) about this topic. Self-published books suggest it might also be named Karanarnava, Garbodhaka, or Viraja. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:30, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hinduism-related deletion discussions. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:30, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/Delete Some further researched revealed that the 'casual ocean' is also known in Hindu literature as the Karana or Cosmic Ocean. As far as I can tell, its simply a hindu interpretation of the existing Cosmic ocean concept, the 'primordial waters', which exists in many cultures. The Cosmic ocean article isn't that great, but this article - one sentence and a single outdated reference - really can't be justified. The best case scenario would be to merge this idea into Cosmic ocean and then improve that article instead of trying to justify this one. ƒin (talk) 23:17, 31 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The current small size of the article is not an argument for deletion per WP:TOOLITTLE when it is capable of expansion. Neither is the argument that it is not being worked on per WP:IMPATIENT. I don't see a problem with having a page specific to Hinduism; the Cosmic Ocean article consists largely of a long list of see alsos to related articles and it could never adequately cover the concept as it exists in every religion. This book describes the creation myth and could be used to expand. The publisher is the long established Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, so not really self published. SpinningSpark 09:06, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – I tried to expand it, but this term (and its multiple variants) appear to be exclusively mentioned in self-published sources with a few passing mentions in semi-religious sources. I can find no in-depth discussion of this subject, which is odd if it's supposed to be this important realm where material creation itself was made. All the sources I found, including the one presented by Spinningspark, appear to be related to the Hare Krishna movement, but I can't verify it. If this concept has not been mentioned in a single scholarly source, it is not worth including. – Thjarkur (talk) 21:46, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 14:29, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Vaitarna River (mythological). The Causal Ocean is just another name for the Vaitarna River (see [1]; from page 205 "In that Vaitarani Ocean, which is the Causal Ocean, there are innumerable universes floating like footballs. On the other side of the ocean is the spiritual world of Vaikuntha, which is described in Bhagavad-gitd (8.20) as paras tasmat tu bhdvo").4meter4 (talk) 03:36, 15 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Interesting case for Redirect on the basis that this is another name for the Vaitarna River that has gone unchallenged; try one last re-list
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Britishfinance (talk) 09:55, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. The Vaitarani Ocean described in the source found by 4meter4 is clearly not the same place as the Vaitarna River described in our article so a redirect there would be inappropriate. Vaitarna River (mythological) is a hellish place that needs to be crossed by sinners. The Vaitarani Ocean (Causal Ocean) is a place for the creation of worlds. SpinningSpark 10:20, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.