Template talk:Catwoman

Scope

• Re-added some of the more Catwoman related villains (only the ones that either first appeared in her book or were a MAJOR plot point to her) and added back Slam Bradly as he is an important main character in the Catwoman comic series.
• The idea of putting the batman films in which Catwoman appears seems logical to me as she is a main character in Batman Returns, The 60's Batman film and the Gotham Girls cartoons.
• The publications section seems be alright without Gotham Girls but I see no real reason not to include Gotham City Sirens as it is a spinoff/continuation of Catwoman's monthly series with her as one of three leads.
• Also a link to Chase Me a Catwoman short film was added as it seemed important enough.
• I tried to be much more narrow about what was included in this revision and only chose those that could be deemed most relevant.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Shallowgravy (talk • contribs) 07:56, August 9, 2011 (UTC)

• And removed the borrowed Batman enemies again.
• Slam Bradley is a character in his own right and not notable for being a supporting character in the Catwoman series.
• General practices is to include works that are named for the character or where the character is the primary protagonist. At the moment that leaves When in Rome, Catwoman the film, and Catwoman the game.
• It's also worth noting that "spin off" navboxes, which this is, tend to be frowned upon... and checking the last time this existed it was deleted as unneeded - along with like 'boxes for 5 othe "big" Bat-foes.

- J Greb (talk) 21:50, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

• Film Freak was re-added after a few extra tweaks to make it more apparent that it was about the Catwoman character "Edison" not the first Film Freak who was a shared villain between Catwoman and Batman.
• Black Mask is more relevant to Batman but was Catwoman's main antagonist for almost the entire run of her latest series and returned in blackest night to menace her as well.
• Slam Bradly was very much his own character in the forties but was relativly unused for several decades before becoming a main character in Ed Brubaker's Catwoman relaunch where he appeared in almost every issue. He is also the grandfather of Selena's daughter Helena.
• As to the spin-off idea, Catwoman is far from just a "Big" Bat villain, she has supported her own book for decades and is a superhero very much separate from the Bat, with her own supporting cast and enemies, as much as Punisher is now separate from Spider-man though still very much connected.

Shallowgravy (talk) 23:29, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Scope Revision

The addition of many batman related characters to catwoman's navbox seems somewhat inevitable by not unnecessary. As a related character many of her supporting cast and enemies will also be related to batman but this need not exclude linking the ones that pertain to catwoman, as her navbox will not always coincide with batman's and wiki users may need to move between various pages with more ease this way.

Shallowgravy (talk) 02:44, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

It's neither inevitable nor necessary.

The in-story material in the template can and should be held to what isn't borrowed from Batman.

Aside from the minor characters - those that in no way meet WP:GNG - most if not all of these articles should be linked through the home article. That really makes this template more of a fan service than a needed navigation tool.

- J Greb (talk) 03:40, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I see your point but I'm very much trying to avoid fan-service in every way, by merely adding characters and articles that mention or are connected to the navbox article in major ways and not based on my own opinion (which is a mistake I have made in the past and now am trying to rectify) and am trying to work within the stringent yet loosely defined guidelines. Film Freak's article makes reference to events and information relevant to Catwoman and by standards should be included in her navbox regardless of whether someone feels that he's more of a batman character.

Shallowgravy (talk) 04:07, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

What information other than bolstering in-story (plot) minutia?

A side from that, the general inclusion criteria should be that a general reader - not a Catwoman fan - would identify the article as part of the general topic. Film Freak, any way the character is looked ate, would elicit a "Who?" with no relation to "Catwoman".

- J Greb (talk) 05:53, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

It's not really a matter plot content but a matter of the content of the article as a whole, a good indicator of this is that the catwoman's name appears multiple times in the article and contains not only story information but also issue numbers (of issues of catwoman for that matter) and various data about the creators and publications that could easily be seen fit to connect it to catwoman, a navbox's purpose is not to give a bare bones list of related things but to help a reader who may not be a fan of catwoman to find out more about her related information and to eliminate characters because they are not popular enough or are related to another character defeats the point and for that matter is would be opinion and fan speculation not relevant to wiki standards. If a page has significant connections to the navbox's main article than it has good reason to be included in its various lists, I understand that there has to be limitations but as it is, it would not hurt to try and put more information forth to help guide a reader to what article she/he would need. supporting cast members' pages like Slam Bradly or villains such as Film Freak's page contain information (not just story content) that a reader may want to know about in connection to catwoman.

- Shallowgravy (talk) 15:35, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

"help guide a reader to what article she/he would need" is a nice premise. A general reader does not need the information in the Film Freak article. Nor do the need a link beyond an in text wikilink to things like Slam Bradly, topics that was grafted into Catwoman much, much later.

If the reason for inclusion is the line of logic "I'm an knowlageble fan and I believe this is important", the you are pushing a point of view. Something the articles shouldn't do, let a lone navigation templates.

- J Greb (talk) 16:56, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Its not a matter of need, no one "needs" information about the joker but he is listed in batman navbox, its a matter of simply adding to the value of the article not by fan serivice at all but merely by linking articles that share a common thread and would give you a broader view as a whole. narrowing down these navboxes to nothing serves no purpose it make them irrelevant at best. The shared information broadens a reader who has no knowledge of the subject my informing them of lesser matters such as when a character supported or was the enemy of another. This is not fan service but factual information that is there to guide a reader or "navigate" them as is the boxes purpose regardless of your or I's opinion.

- Shallowgravy (talk) 17:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Moving away from characters a bit, in terms of scope it seems a bit unnecessary to have a section called Catwomen, it could just as easily be supporting characters and have the same character (sans the Selena Kyle which just links back to Catwoman anyways) as Holly is as much a supporting character as anything else.

- Shallowgravy (talk) 03:53, 27 February 2013 (UTC)