Talk:Zibby Owens

Bad sources?

Hello Scope creep! Could you tell more about this tag you added: "This biography of a living person needs additional citations for verification. Please help by adding reliable sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful." When I created the article I checked all the sources and I think they were reliable. Did I miss something? Jjanhone (talk) 12:57, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Jjanhone: No. I think I found a whole bunch of other sources like [2] [3] and [4], [5] and was hoping that somebody would come along and add them into the article. So I posted that blp tag for that, and you've appeared. I was wondering if you wanted to add these as well. The article is fairly well sourced. scope_creep^Talk 13:06, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Ok, thanks! Let me think about this for a while. :) Jjanhone (talk) 15:35, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Hello scope_creep. As you've been earlier interested about the subject I wonder if you could check if the neutrality of it is ok? As a paid editor I'm not allowed to remove the paid template myself.Jjanhone (talk) 09:55, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Paid contributions tag

A paid editor made contributions to this article, and has disclosed that fact on this page, therefore the paid contributions template is a matter of fact and does not require discussion. Beyond My Ken (talk) 13:55, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

According to the policy "if you place the Paid tag, you should promptly start a discussion on the article's talk page to explain what is non-neutral about the article." As a paid editor I'm not allowed to remove the tag myself, but if any volunteer editor thinks that the neutral point of view of the article is ok, they are free to remove the tag as told in the Template:Paid contributions instructions: "If you do not start this discussion, then any editor is justified in removing the tag without warning."Jjanhone (talk) 17:26, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm pinging previous editors of this article to come and evaluate if the Paid tag could be removed or if there's still something that should be corrected. So hello and cheers Schazjmd, Patken4, Arjayay, Plastikspork, Jmertel23, DannyS712, Scope creep, Melcous, Shakehandsman and Ser Amantio di Nicolao. Jjanhone (talk) 10:39, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, Jjanhone, the word that comes to mind when I read this article is "fawning". Also, New York Post is a generally unreliable source that should not be used in WP:BLPs (see WP:RSPS), so those two references and the content they support should be removed. Schazjmd (talk) 13:49, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Schazjmd you taught me a new word :D. I removed the New York Post related content, is this less fawning now? Jjanhone (talk) 16:05, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for removing those, Jjanhone. I still think the tone throughout is more deferential than encyclopedic, but that's just one person's opinion and perhaps other editors you've pinged may disagree. Schazjmd (talk) 16:19, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Praxidicae added a new tag, Advert. Since that this is what has changed. Would it be enough or is there still something you think is promotional?Jjanhone (talk) 21:29, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I feel that it's still completely promotional and poorly written. It basically needs WP:TNT. TAXIDICAE💰 14:17, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

After what?

Like her father, she attended Yale University and Harvard Business School. After that Owens’ writing has been featured... is weird - what did she do after graduating from Yale and HBS? It sounds like writing featured pieces followed naturally. Was she living off her father's money or a full-time writer? Odd jump. Caius G. (talk) 21:15, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't know about how she has made her living but the fact is that she is a writer and "her writings has been featured in Marie Claire, Modern Bride, Redbook, Self, and Shape. She has written personal essays and blogs for many self-publishing platforms. ref name=Vulture 20190917 She has also written parenting essays on Huffington Post, ref name= Vulture 20190917 The New York Times, Mommy Nearest, Medium and Today.com. ref http://community.today.com/user/zibby-owens ." So I think this should be included in the article. She is not just someone who started a popular podcast with no experience at all. Also the fact that she was not using any social media accounts before her podcast is interesting - most of the people have been using them for a decade already but for her it was a new thing. Jjanhone (talk) 06:53, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Looks like Vulture has been removed from sources. Why was that? Jjanhone (talk) 07:06, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Complaint (was: RFC)

Are there any issues with this article that can justify the warning added at the beginning of the article? If yes, can you give an example please?Jjanhone (talk) 09:02, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

• This is an invalid RfC. The statement, whilst brief, is not neutral; and there is no evidence that the suggestions at WP:RFCBEFORE have been exhausted. The tag concerned was added in March 2021 by Beyond My Ken (talk · contribs); have you asked them directly why it was added and if it is still justified? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

  Sorry for my mistake in RfC process, I asked for more comments as the discussion on this page has not proceed in months. Redrose64 , I do have asked BMK (not pinging as been asked not to do so) to explain why the tag was added.Jjanhone (talk) 05:59, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

• Jjanhone admits to being a paid editor, therefore the warning is justified. Paid editors cannot, by definition, be neutral about the article they contribute to. As Redrose64 points out, this is not a valid RfC, therefore I have altered the subject of this thread. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:12, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

  Pinging previous editors of this article: Schazjmd, Patken4, Arjayay, Plastikspork, Jmertel23, DannyS712, Scope creep, Melcous, Shakehandsman and Ser Amantio di Nicolao. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:17, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

• The block in the middle that talks about podcast which is quite large about 40% of the article. It is promo for such a small article, I can see why the tag is there. I reads partly like it is pushing it, even though it is clearly a tiny part of a person life to do such a thing, in the scheme of things. There is hardly any other details on the women. Hope that helps scope_creep^Talk 13:57, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks Scope creep for commenting. There used to be more content about other things of her life, see e.g this version which have been removed. E.g. "In third grade she wrote two short stories which her grandfather, Kalman Levitan, a collector and publisher of miniature books published as a limited edition in 1985." " Owens’ writing has been featured in Marie Claire, Modern Bride, Redbook, Self, and Shape. She has written personal essays and blogs for many self-publishing platforms. She has also written parenting essays on Huffington Post, The New York Times, Mommy Nearest, Medium and Today.com." "In 2020 Owens won Academy of Interactive & Visual Arts' 26th Annual Communicator Award of Excellence as a host Host for Individual Episodes." "She is writing a partly autobiographical novel about an Upper East Side mom who falls in love with her tennis pro teacher and a children's book about Princess Charming." Btw, I would remove the names of her kids as they are still minors.Jjanhone (talk) 08:34, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

Conflict of Interest Edit Request: National Book Awards withdrawal

• What I think should be changed: The current phrase "due to concerns that a potential call for a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas conflict by participating authors could be perceived as discriminatory against Israel and the Jewish community." should be replaced with "due to concerns about potential antisemitism and hate speech at the event."
• Why it should be changed: There is a difference between withdrawing from an event because there will be a call for a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas conflict, and withdrawing from an event because of a potential for antisemitism and/or hate speech, especially when such speech will not be challenged or regulated. The cited NYT article states that "it was unclear what the statement [made by award winners] would include, leaving several sponsors concerned..."

Quotes in the NYT article, a PW article [see references below], and in Owens' own Substack essay [see references below] about the decision show that Owens could not have known the exact nature of the planned statements in advance of the event, and that her decision to withdraw was about potential antisemitism and hate speech, rather than making a statement about a ceasefire. I believe the language change that I've suggested makes Owens' motivation clearer, as the current sentence could be interpreted as Owens making a political statement about a ceasefire.

• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

"Rumors that authors would take a stand regarding the Israel-Gaza conflict during the ceremony were flying in the days leading up to the event, but it was unclear what the statement would include, leaving several sponsors concerned. One of the sponsors that withdrew after learning that some authors were planning a political statement was Zibby Media. Zibby Owens, the company’s founder, wrote in an essay published on Substack that her company had withdrawn because she was afraid the remarks at the ceremony would take a stance against Israel, noting that 'we simply can’t be a part of anything that promotes discrimination, in this case of Israel and the Jewish people.'"

"In a Substack post, Owens, who said that she will not attend the ceremony, cited the potential for 'hate speech,' 'anti-semitic comments,' and 'a bullying atmosphere' in explaining her decision to withdraw.

'There’s nothing I want more than to celebrate the accomplishments of talented authors like this year’s [finalists],' Owens wrote in a message to National Book Foundation executive director Ruth Dickey, which she shared in the post. (Zibby Media did not publish any of this year's NBA finalists.) 'But I can’t do so in an environment that values 'not censoring' authors more than preventing what seems likely—given the collusion of many authors already—[to be] a prejudiced, activist environment that intends to use the platform of the book awards to perpetuate activism against a group based on race or religion.'"

See also Owens' Substack essay explaining her decision to withdraw from the event.

I'm still pretty new to Wikipedia editing, so I apologize for any mistakes! Thank you for your consideration. 16butterflies (talk) 20:44, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

References

 Not done: Absolutely not, and the sourcing is insufficent since Substack is not a reliable source. Quetstar (talk) 21:17, 10 September 2024 (UTC)