Talk:Wang Guangyang

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Is this article still confusing?

User:DoubleGrazing, User:SBD091, which parts of this article are still confusing? Issues I identified and attempted to address included referring to the same office with two different translations, presentation of material in a section ordered chronologically that was out of order and belonged in the lead, total lack of context, and poor translation in general.

SBD091, I'm sorry I didn't have time to talk with you directly yesterday, but this article was previously draftified on 5 April 2023 and moved back to mainspace by its original author. Draftification policy prevents reviewers from unilaterally moving articles to draftspace a second time, so you'll always have to check for that in a page's history if you'll be using tools that can move articles across namespaces. Folly Mox (talk) 21:19, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Good start. Needs development per previously placed tag. Happy editing!

North8000 (talk) 13:11, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Right counsilor successor

Article states that Wang ended office in 79'. Li shanchang was appointed right counsilor before his own execution. Theoretically, Li would come after. I just don't have dates on hand at the moment. I'll come back later if I dig up more. FourLights (talk) 00:51, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this might be a misunderstanding arising from my unclear prose. I've copyedited a sentence to clarify that it was Wang Guangyang who was restored to the office of 右丞相 in 1377, not Li Shanchang (the person last mentioned by name in the previous sentence, but who had held the senior position of 左丞相).

If the question is "who held Wang's position of Right Grand Counsellor after Wang's execution?", the position was vacant at first; Hongwu didn't keep all four Secretariat managerial offices filled at all times. I'll try to find out who held the office next and when. Folly Mox (talk) 10:54, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh just kidding all four of the positions were abolished and restructured in the wake of the Hu Weiyong case. I forgot about that. The early Ming bureaucracy was quite a place. Folly Mox (talk) 10:58, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Li Shanchang article I wrote states that Li was right councilor before Li was executed. It states Li was executed in 1390 so I would think Li was Right Councilor some time in the 1380s.FourLights (talk) 13:45, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But I don't know if it was right grand councilor.FourLights (talk) 23:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DMB I: 852 (also by Romeyn Taylor) says Li was "given permission to resign" at the end of 1370; most sources give 1371 for the actual year of resignation. Dictionary of Ming Biography uses different translations of official titles than the ones I chose for this article, which follow Charles Hucker (Hucker was a coordinator of the DMB project, but not an editor).

The title given to Li Shanchang in that book is "senior prime minister" or possibly "(senior) prime minister", depending on level of nitpicking. Chinese sources give "左丞相" (see for example zh:李善長), so if we're translating more literally than interpretatively, we'd definitely want to use "left" rather than "right".

In any case, Li Shanchang retired from politics almost a decade prior to his execution, although he worked temporarily in much lower governmental roles in the interim.

No one held his position after him, since the office was vacant until abolished, but he definitely wasn't a minister by the time of his death. Folly Mox (talk) 13:45, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]