Talk:St John Philby

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Cold War Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cold War, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Cold War on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cold WarWikipedia:WikiProject Cold WarTemplate:WikiProject Cold WarCold War articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Biography / Intelligence / British / European / World War I C‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

C

This article has been rated as C-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Intelligence task force
	British military history task force
	European military history task force
	World War I task force

Lebanon Low‑importance

	Lebanon portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Lebanon, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Lebanon-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LebanonWikipedia:WikiProject LebanonTemplate:WikiProject LebanonLebanon articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Espionage Low‑importance

	St John Philby is within the scope of WikiProject Espionage, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of espionage, intelligence, and related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page, or contribute to the discussion.EspionageWikipedia:WikiProject EspionageTemplate:WikiProject EspionageEspionage articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sri Lanka Low‑importance

	Sri Lanka portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sri Lanka, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Sri Lanka on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sri LankaWikipedia:WikiProject Sri LankaTemplate:WikiProject Sri LankaSri Lanka articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Saudi Arabia Low‑importance

	Saudi Arabia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Saudi Arabia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Saudi Arabia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Saudi ArabiaWikipedia:WikiProject Saudi ArabiaTemplate:WikiProject Saudi ArabiaSaudi Arabia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

A Problem

Harry Philby could not have been in Baghdad in 1915 as it was in Turkish control until the middle of 1917. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.92.135.36 (talk) 19:59, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

One deletion

I removed the sentence

The Philby's helped create the climate of chaos necessary to suppress the Hungarian uprising.

This may or may not be a fair assessment of the impact of the information that they passed to the Soviet Union, but appears to this largely uninformed reader to claim too much. Even though the sentence uses elastic terms such as "helped" and "climate", it still conveys the impression that there was a straight line of cause and effect from one event to the other. In addition, was a "climate of chaos" really "necessary" for Khruschev to send tanks into Hungary? Rather than try to fix it, I deleted it. Perhaps someone else might want to rework it to state "the Soviet Union took advantage of the international climate of chaos produced by this failed seizure to suppress the Hungarian uprising", but I don't have enough confidence in that statement to make it myself.

This article is far from complete; I intend to rewrite the entire Kim Philby page to show the relationship between father and son. As of now, little is known of Jack Philby's activities in his later years of life, and that sentence (which true is directed more toward Kim, is really lifted from John Loftus's book chapter entitled Revenge of the Philby's). Only in recent years have efforts been made to write about activities of both father & son which appear to have some common parellal and purpose. Thx for input. Nobs 03:07, 7 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Several small additions

Having read the Monroe book and noted her sources, I have added a few brief comments but notably changed the nature of Philby's second "marital" relationship. As his "first" wife remained a practising Christian throughout her life and they were not divorced, the status is not clear, however under Islamic law, Rozy, the girl presented to him as a gift by Ibn Saud, became his wife when she gave birth to a son. This son, and the next, both died of illness early in their lives. Rozy had a third son, who survived and knew Kim Philby quite well.

What is not clear from the article is that Philby was regarded as a person unable to grasp the bigger picture throughout his career, whether in the English civil service, or when advising Ibn Saud. His refusal to accept the views of others was acknowledged by all, as was his fearful temper and bullying nature. I have used this background to reflect the transition to US influence in Saudi Arabia. It is a particularly narrow view as Ibn Saud really just went where the money was and the British had run out of money. This need for money sat behind Philby's idea of $20 million for settlement of Jews into Palestine.

His real fame (which he sought so desperately) was as an explorer and the article would be enhanced by a map showing his trips criss-crossing the region.

St. John Philby is an interesting character; I would question the insertion of "unintentionally" undermined British influence, etc.; that insertion may radically alter the entire text, and may need proper sourcing. That he did undermine British influence there is no doubt, "unintentionally" is a more subjective motive assigned to him, that changes his whole life story. It is definitley debateable. Good edits! Thank you. nobs 16:43, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

image

The image Image:190523ar.gif, used in this article, is high resolution and not really appropriate for fair use. It is a map, and it seems possible to create a replacement using our own blank maps. Would anyone watching this article be interested in creating such an image? You would be praised in song and story forever, etc. I have no plans to delete the current image, but it could be deleted at some point in the future. Thanks. Chick Bowen 21:41, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

unattributed quote

"...religion was simple and fundamental, and the law of the gun prevailed..."

This is a nice little quote, but where did it come from? Just curious.

Fair use rationale for Image:51EYG0NBPDL SS500 .jpg

Image:51EYG0NBPDL SS500 .jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:32, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please tell me nothing

I can imagine that if he lived through the 1950s, he would easily learn the wrongdoings of his son. Did it wear on his health, or did it make him feel a small sence of pride? If things were different, could he live longer?--83.108.31.221 (talk) 21:53, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers for that. What the article did not but now does make clear is that Kim was exposed in 1963, and therefore he knew nothing about it. ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 18:45, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Spy

We either call him a spy and ref that or we just link directly to intelligence officer. WE do not dab intelligence officer to spy. Seems clear enough to me. What is the problem? ♫ RichardWeiss talk contribs 16:34, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on St John Philby. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:45, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Philby's travels in Arabia are invisible in the article, especially when compared to his bibliography. Other Arabia explorers, such as Thomas and Thesiger refer to him in their writings. He is someone to be reckoned with in this context. Azd0815 (talk) 11:03, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine they are absent because they would distract from the pov agendas of Wikipedia editors and the writers of the cited sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.223.241 (talk) 01:32, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Article name

The name of this article should be Harry St John Philby, or possibly Jack Philby? 205.239.40.3 (talk) 13:37, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Categorization as fascist

Copied from my talk page regarding a discussion on categorization under Category:English fascists.Crispulop (talk) 19:14, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On the article itself it states he stood for the British peoples party which if you click the link to it, it is shown to have been a fascist party, secondarily if you view the page of the British Union of Fascists he is listed as a member. StrongALPHA (talk) 12:54, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree with you that he can be be categorized as a fascist based on the current information in the article. 1) There is still no explicit information in the article that he himself was fascist. 2) In the article on the British People's Party it states the following cited information "Philby claimed that he agreed with none of the BPP's views apart from their opposition to war. He was more disposed towards the Labour Party but felt they were becoming too pro-war. In Philby's mind, as well as popularly, the BPP were seen as more of a single issue anti-war party". This sentence seems to indicate that he opposed everything else the party stood for (including fascism). I think a categorization under: British People's Party is justified, but one as English fascist isn't 3) Regarding being on the list of prominent members and supporters on the article of the British Union of Fascists. The claim for Philby was unsourced. I have removed it alltogether and tagged the section for insufficiently citing sources. Lastly, there isn't any information on the British Union of Fascists in the article on St John Philby. Crispulop (talk) 19:14, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's the least of the content problems imo. Many of the claims derived from Lacey appear ludicrous and unsuitable for use. For example, the claim that Ibn Saud actually thought the World to be flat, as well as phrases like "sex slave", are like something derived from the worst American yellow journalism from the 1900s. And the overly-large end section derived from "the American scholar Jacob Goldberg" appears to be content overemphasis, as well as a bit of aggrandisement of said Jacob Goldberg, whoever he is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.14.223.241 (talk) 01:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]