Talk:Seaman (rank)

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Text and/or other creative content from Matrose (rank) was copied or moved into Seaman (rank). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Untitled

Does anyone know how many months at Seaman Apprentice is required to advance to Seaman? I'm pretty sure it's measured in months. Nine? - Wguynes 20:07, Mar 26, 2004 (UTC)

Here are the Time In Rate (TIR) Requirements for U.S. Navy Enlisted Advancements (given in months):

SR to SA = 9 (w/No exam); SA to SN = 9 (w/No exam); SN to PO3 = 6; PO3 to PO2 = 12; PO2 to PO1 = 36*; PO1 to CPO = 36*; CPO to SCPO = 36 (w/No exam); SCPO to MCPO = 36 (w/No exam). *May be waived up to 1 year for Early Promotes (EP's) for advancement to PO1 or CPO only. Source = U.S. Navy Advancement Center

Based upon educational background, work background or incentives for advanced training, certain recruits may enter the Navy as SA or SN.

I used the insignia from the insignia table page. They're rather small and lacking in detail for use here, but better than nothing. If anyone finds higher quality, larger, and consistent-looking insignia for all the navy enlisted, please feel free to replace these. I think leaving the table page as the small ones is best, however, due to server load. - Wguynes 02:46, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)

Dreamcast game

Erm, I was browsing the list for Dreamcast games and I got this (the article, not the talk page) instead of the article for the Dreamcast game Seaman. Not that I have anything against seamen in particular, but shouldn't there at least be a link to the game somewhere? (BTW, I don't know how to link, so that's why I didn't 'fix' it)

It's located at Seaman (video game). --jh51681 01:46, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Dog

Seaman was also the name of a dog owned by Meriwether Lewis (of Lewis and Clark) which he took on his expedition - AAA

Rate versus Rank

In the United States Coast Guard, only Petty Officers can have rates. Seaman, Airman and Fireman are called non-rates and are simply pay grades. See page 164 or 2.B Page 2 of the Coast Guard Personnel Manual at http://www.uscg.mil/ccs/cit/cim/directives/CIM/CIM_1000_6A.pdf . Pay Grade and Rank seem to be used interchangebly --- Safemariner 17:14, 14 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Not all Seaman or Seaman Apprentices are "non-rates." There are plenty of cases where a Seaman Apprentice has attended "A" School and has completed all requirements to be rated but hasn't been in the service long enough to become a petty officer. In those cases, they are referred to as a "rated seaman." Also, only commissioned officers have "rank." Enlisted have "rate." Medicjm (talk) 03:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sea Dog

Sea Dog is also a nickname for a seal, because their face looks similar to a dog's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.55.125.8 (talk) 04:30, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect rank insignia for Canadian navy seamen.

These are correct:

193.11.50.23 (talk) 12:56, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Se(a)men

I think the fact that seamen is often confused with semen (honest mistake) should be mentioned somewhere in this article. Does anybody disagree with me? -- Smidderwibh

There is already a distinguishing link at the top of the page. That's all we need. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:10, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Seaman (disambiguation), for those who don't understand what a DAB page is. - BilCat (talk) 17:48, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Sailing?

The introduction section includes the following sentence, which seems to me to be a little outside of the voice of the rest of the article, as well as being beside the point entirely:

"The term "seaman" is also a general-purpose for a man or a woman who works anywhere on board a modern ship, including in the engine spaces, which is the very opposite of sailing."

It's true that working in the engine room of a ship is very different from sailing a ship, but nothing in the term "seaman" necessarily points to sailing, just being on the sea. Calling this the "very opposite" of sailing seems also to be a little hard to back up. Standing on solid ground seems more unlike sailing than being anywhere on a ship to me. I'm probably nitpicking, but this just seems off. Maybe belongs in the article on "sailor". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alucardtepes (talk • contribs) 22:39, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved as proposed. There is consensus to move the rank article away from the base name, but no consensus to instead make it be a primary redirect to Sailor. As such there is no primary topic here any longer and the dab page is moved. If anyone wants to revisit the location of the dab page and see if consensus can be found to have a primary redirect instead, then a fresh RM can be held on the Talk:Seaman disambiguation page. — Amakuru (talk) 15:12, 1 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Seaman → Seaman (rank)
Seaman (disambiguation) → Seaman

– mislinks 2601:541:4500:1760:74F8:415:69F9:2DF9 (talk) 21:18, 13 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 21:40, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:PRECISE [Neutral]. Just glancing at What links here, I don't see large numbers that are obviously wrong. If anyone comes across any, they can and should be corrected without disrupting the title. And if a few slip by, there's a hatnote on this article. Station1 (talk) 05:28, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
But based on pageviews, as pointed out below, the video game gets surprising interest, and also considering the dog and sailor, maybe this isn't the primary topic. So changing to neutral. Station1 (talk) 18:46, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per WP:ASTONISH since to most people "Seaman" means a sailor. But also Seaman (video game) gets slightly more views even though it lacks long-term significance. Views for Sailor are also about the same [[1]]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:42, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. But redirect Seaman to Sailor and keep Seaman (disambiguation) where it is. Clear primary redirect. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:50, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support first move, but redirect Seaman to Sailor per User:Necrothesp. bd2412 T 21:41, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. If seaman is redirected to sailor there are a lot of incoming wikilinks that should be changed. Station1 (talk) 01:30, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of the links come from infobox/navbox template transclusions such as {{Military ranks}}. About sixty templates link to it (e.g. there's a Template:Ranks and Insignia of Non NATO Navies/OR/Paraguay and one each for many other countries' navies). 62.165.227.102 (talk) 05:45, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agnostic on the proposed move, but oppose redirecting seaman to sailor; the rank and the video game are actually called "seaman", while using "seaman" to mean "sailor" is a bit archaic. — AjaxSmack 01:44, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support but Redirect Seaman to Sailor. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:02, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support the move but oppose redirecting to sailor, when "seaman" is used in a narrower sense for able seaman, ordinary seaman (they are not able sailors or ordinary sailors). Strangely, these articles are not linked in seaman and are not at the disambiguation page. 62.165.227.102 (talk) 05:28, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't quite get your point. A seaman and a sailor are the same thing. Yes, they're used as part of those terms too, but "seaman" when unqualified just means a sailor on a seagoing vessel. Any sailor of any rank. My father was a Merchant Navy captain. He joined as a cadet and then became a third officer and worked his way up. He'd never served as an ordinary or able seaman in his life. But he still referred to himself as a "seaman". -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:01, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Plenty of sailors don't go to sea, but dicionaries seem to think the two are synonymous (and seafarer and mariner). I didn't mean to suggest that "ordinary seaman" and "able seaman" made an exhaustive list.

More pertinently, redirecting to "sailor" means anyone wanting to find, say, seaman (video game) would now find it two clicks away instead of one.

Essentially having "seaman" redirect to "sailor" gives us a WP:XY problem, so it is better to have a DAB there.62.165.227.102 (talk) 15:34, 24 January 2019 (UTC) edited 06:33, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not all sailors are seamen, indeed, but all seamen are certainly sailors. It's by far the primary meaning of the term, so a primary redirect is entirely appropriate. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:22, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Even assuming that everyone reading the "sailor" article links by typing "seaman" (which I certainly don't), the combined pageviews of the video game and the rank are consistently greater. And as 62.165.227.102 notes, with a redirect of seaman to sailor, all of the readers searching for the video game and the rank would have to now click twice. Not much of a case for WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. — AjaxSmack 17:33, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Even though I do think sailor would be primary if one exists, given that there will be internal and external links pointing to the rank (see User:Andrewa/Incoming links) we should probably avoid primary topic swaps of an article of this importance, thus at least for now I'd suggest the best solution is to have no primary topic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:38, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Citation needed for Matelot and mattros

Yup, reference 2 deals only with US Navy ranks. I even searched the site and the word matelot is not found. So a reference is needed for the French and German terms and the Royal Canadian Navy sailor. Humpster (talk) 04:55, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]