Talk:Piano Concerto for the Left Hand (Ravel)

Contradiction with page for "Paul Wittgenstein"

The current article for "Paul Wittgenstein" in section "New career as a left-handed pianist" when talking about Wittgenstein's premiere of Ravel's piece reads "But when Wittgenstein made changes to the score for the première, Ravel became incensed and the two never reconciled" and cites a source. In the corresponding discussion of the same event on this page "Piano Concerto for the Left Hand (Ravel)" we instead find the information "Later Wittgenstein agreed to perform the concerto as written, and the two men patched up their differences, 'but the whole episode left a bitter taste in both their mouths'" with a different source. These statements are inconsistent, but I do not know which is true.

Page history

This page was excerpted from Piano Concerto for the Left Hand, which is now redirected to Piano Concerto. A history of this article can be found here. Cheers. --Ben "bleh fu" K 18:18, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)

Right hand

Can I play it with my right hand?   freshgavin TALK    03:00, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

2006 rewrite

Working on rewriting this page. More to come. -MarkBuckles 17:51, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I've added much more information, some analysis, an example, and a list of references. The musical discussion still needs to be fleshed out more, as does the reception section. -MarkBuckles 18:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Non-specific references

I'm investigating the two (one, now that I've deleted one) remaining non-footnote general references, and will delete or integrate as footnotes depending what I find.

To start with, I am deleting this general reference:

• Kelly, Barbara. "Ravel, Maurice", Grove Music Online ed. L. Macy, <http://grovemusic.com> (subscription access)

I read the article and it's about Ravel, not the Concerto. It barely mentions the Concerto, referring to it in only 3 sentences:

• One general sentence that Ravel composed it 1829-1830 for Wittgenstein, who had lost an arm; well-supported by other references.
• "The introduction of the Concerto for the Left Hand is based on the secondary dominant pedal E, which resolves to A at the piano's entry before reaching the tonic D major." This is used in the article. As this is the only passage about the structure of the Concerto, and is in a larger context about Ravel's work in general, I'm not inclined to try to shoehorn this into the "Structure" section. I'd rather find other material that discusses it in context.
• One work in a list of four as an example of Ravel's "exuberant orchestral textures"; not used in text of article, and more about Ravel's style in general than the Concerto.

TJRC (talk) 21:58, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Follow-up: The Masson reference is in French, which I do not read. I've been able to get enough out of it to see that it is the source for Ravel's two comments about the movement divisions. The text previously cited to some unnamed and impossible-to-find articles for these bits: "Daily Telegraph, 11 July 1931, p. 364" and "Le Journal, 14 January 1933, p. 328". without having paper copies of the indicated 80-year-old newspapers, these are impossible to verify. The Masson article also cites them in exactly this way, untitledly, and my assumption is that is where the editor who added them actually got the cites. I've removed the two newspapers and cited directly to the Masson article.

In addition to that article text, Masson is name-checked in the text as well, and I also put it in as a note to that statement. This cleans up the non-footnote general references. TJRC (talk) 22:43, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Further reading

I am deleting the "Further reading" section:

• Ivry, Benjamin (2000), Maurice Ravel: a Life, New York: Welcome Rain, ISBN 1-56649-152-5, OCLC 44172900
• Lau, Sandra Wing-Yee. The art of the left hand: a study of Ravel’s Piano Concerto for the left hand and a bibliography of the repertoire. Diss. Stanford University, 1994.
• Mawer, Deborah, ed. (2000), The Cambridge Companion to Ravel, Cambridge Companions to Music, Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0-521-64856-4, OCLC 59558270 LCC ML410.R23 C36 2000
• Perlemuter, Vlado and Hélène Jourdan-Morhange. Ravel according to Ravel. Frances Tanner, trans. London: Kahn & Averill, 1970.

Of these four works, only one, the Lau work, appear to be focused on the Concerto. They are general works about the composer. The Lau thesis seems to certainly be on-point, but it's not a generally available work, so not something a Wikipedia reader is likely to have access to. It's apparently available only for in-person inspection at the Stanford University library; not of much practical value.

I propose that if any works are added or re-added as "further reading," that a comment be placed here in the talk page justifying the placement, and in the case of general works, the citation indicate the portion of the work (e.g., chapter or page range) that is material to the Concerto. TJRC (talk) 22:50, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

In keeping with my comment above, when looking for material to support the mostly-unsourced "structure" section, I came across this master's thesis, which has substantial content on the Concerto; so I have added it into the "further reading" (although since it's completely available online, perhaps it should be an EL)):

• Lewis, Cary (August 1965). The Piano Concertos of Ravel (M.Mus.). North Texas State University. OCLC 42709867. Retrieved April 24, 2017.

TJRC (talk) 23:07, 24 April 2017 (UTC)