Talk:Mount of Olives

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There are at least a half a dozen graves of rabbis listed at the end of this article that are not buried on the Mt. of Olives, but Har Hamenuchot cemetery at the entrance of Jerusalem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jwander (talk • contribs) 10:41, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Does anyone have modern information on this cemetery?

Working on it. --Alex S 23:48, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

added effects ?

I guess this is just a way to use a copyrighted picture ? Would it be impossible to use a picture taken by an israelian wikipedian ? What's wrong with the picture on wiki he: ? I'm not commenting on the artistic quality of the picture, it's just that it's supposed to be an encyclopedic article about the Mount of Olives... My .02€. WikiMoi 22:22, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

"with Jordanians using the gravestones from the cemetery for construction of roads and toilets, including gravestones from millennia-old graves. When Israel occupied the area in 1967, the Israelis painstakingly repatriated as many of the surviving gravestones as possible." Do you have any evidence for this, highly partisan, statement? If so, state it, if not, remove the statement.

-- i want to add to that final comment. The only "references" are to two VERY pro-israeli bias web sites. If you are going to reference it at least use something a bit more neutral. You might as well just reference a Hamas site to back up your facts about something Palestinian.

That the gravestones were used for latrines is a known fact since 1967 and to the best of my knowledge has never been challenged even by Jordan; it is what is called "common knowledge". I have seen many gravestones of my ancestors broken or missing and you tell me who might have done it. When someone wants to challenge anything written; the solution is not to delete (destroy), but to build by adding a "fact" label. If a reference is not given in a considerable amount of time, only then does it makes sense to delete that piece of information.

When it was removed here, I restored it and gave the first three references I found with a Google search. Yes, there should be a proper reference for it, but until then this fact as unpleasant as it is to some, doesn't make the edit partisan, biased or not neutral. Itzse 21:22, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Itzse, my problem is not that your text is biased. My problem is that it does not meet the Wikipedia policy that statements of fact be supported by references to reliable and verifiable published sources. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources.

Frankly, I'm shocked that you think seeing "many gravestones of your ancestors broken or missing" in a cemetery that is 2,500 years old is in any way evidence that Jordanians desecrated the graves, unless you also saw the gravestones intact before 1948 (your observations are not really relevant, since they aren't third-party published sources, but did you see the latrines, too?). "Common knowledge" is not a published source, as required by Wikipedia policy. As for Internet citations, I looked at the first 25 references to Mount of Olives gravestones being used as latrines that I found in Google (including yours). Not one provided a citation to an eyewitness account, a contemporary newspaper article or document, or published scholarly research. None of those websites stated an editorial policy, and therefore I cannot conclude that any has "an established structure for fact-checking and editorial oversight." The mere repetition of assertions on many websites does not constitute a reliable and verifiable published source. Why is it so difficult for you to identify a source that complies with the Wikipedia inclusion criteria?

As for removing text versus adding a citation tag, here's the relevant portion of the Verifiability policy to which I referred above: "Be careful not to go too far on the side of not upsetting editors by leaving unsourced information in articles for too long, or at all in the case of information about living people. Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia, has said of this: "I can NOT emphasize this enough. There seems to be a terrible bias among some editors that some sort of random speculative 'I heard it somewhere' pseudo information is to be tagged with a 'needs a cite' tag. Wrong. It should be removed, aggressively, unless it can be sourced. This is true of all information, but it is particularly true of negative information about living persons." Since there are plenty of Jordanians over 60 years old still living, and since the acts you claim some of them committed are singularly odious, I will continue to remove your assertions aggressively until you produce at least one reliable and verifiable source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.236.134.75 (talk)

Itzse's information is correct. From Jerusalem: Battlegrounds of Memory, by Amos Elon:

In 1967, it was discovered that during the Jordanian occupation of East Jerusalem, tombstones had been removed from the ancient Jewish cemetary on Olivet to pave the latrines of a nearby Jordanian army barrack. (At the same time, Moslems were incensed to discover that an equally ancient Moslem cemetary had vanished on the Israeli side under a five-star hotel.) (p. 75)

and

of approximately seventy thousand Jewish graves on the Mount of Olives and its slopes, some fifty thousand were destroyed or defaced during the nineteen years of Jordanian rule between 1948 and 1967. (p.170)

nadav (talk) 02:27, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. With a complying source, I no longer have any issues with the statements.

Mount of Olives, Zechariah

The Mount of Olives, as much of a fixation as it is and has always been, will be cleaved, according to the Jewish books of prophecy. There's an Oracle that describes it, the particular part is in Zechariah 14. "Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him." Jeremiah 14:3-5(NIV). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.144.126 (talk) 19:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated claims

The citation about Palestinian vandalism at Mount Olivet come from an editorial in the Jerusalem Post, a right wing Israeli newspaper. They need substantiation from non-biased sources in a news article, not an opinion piece. Rogermx (talk) 15:55, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Jpost is not a right-wing paper, and factual claims in editorials of high-quality newspapers (such as Jpost) are reliable. Nevertheless, if someone makes a good-faith effort to find extra sourcing and doesn't find any, the issue can be re-discussed. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 20:01, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Of course it is a right-wing newspaper. But that's not the real issue. The real issue is that editorials are reliable sources of opinion and not reliable sources of fact. Zero^talk 00:23, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Factual claims in editorials of quality newspapers are reliable, of course, but the issue is moot since I added two more sources. Jalapenos do exist (talk) 06:08, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Location

Its located in East Jerusalem, not Israel. Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 13:23, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Jalapenos do exist, no one has said its not in Jerusalem, EJ is a more precis description on where in Jerusalem. You also re added a cat without explanation. The location is EJ, not Israel, so the cat doesn't belong in this article. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 00:35, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

EJ existed for 19 years. It is a historic district which has been consigned to the history bin. It is currently used as a term to describe a historic entity, ideas and propersitions, etc., but to use the term to locate a pysical geographical loction is nonsenseical. It is like saying Tel Aviv is in Palestine. (Well it was for 30 years, but not anymore). Chesdovi (talk) 22:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Where is the Mount of Olives?

• AP: Settlers said on Wednesday they are building new housing at a religious school on the Mount of Olives in East Jerusalem
• European Journal of International Law: Palestine would be entitled to construct a parliament building and capital district within East Jerusalem, perhaps on the Mount of Olives near where there is a community center today.
• Dumper, Michael. The politics of Jerusalem since 1967 Columbia University Press: The policy of settling Jews in East Jerusalem in such a way as to disrupt the contiguity of Palestinian areas continued, albeit more discreetly, and the new mayor of Jerusalem elected in 1993, strongly supported Jewish settlement on the Mount of Olives, Sharkh Jarrah, Silwan and Ras al-Amud
• Norman, Julie. The second Palestinian Intifada: civil resistance Taylor & Francis: I lived on the Mount of Olives in East Jerusalem during my fieldwork

More can be provided on request. But these establish that Mount of Olives is in East Jerusalem. I trust that individual user's opinions on the issue will not continue to be used to disregard what reliable sources give as the location of this place. nableezy - 15:49, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Sites Important in Islam

The article mentions in passing "contains several sites important in Islam". Can someone elaborate please? Without these the "pro-israeli bias" (and a pro-Christian bias) bias seems justified. The Lesser Merlin (talk) 11:00, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Border between Scopus and Olivet - who knows the definition?

If Tzurim Valley is the border, then the Mormon U. and Beit Orot are on the Olivet side, no matter what Haaretz writes or the Mormon U. website claims. So, who has the definition? ArmindenArminden (talk) 02:27, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

MOUNT OF OLIVES !!! 5.29.119.219 (talk) 05:12, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

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Fault line on the Mount of Olives / Zechariah 14:4

I would like someone to give some information like pictures and official documentation on the Fault line that was supposed to have been found there in 1964 when the seven arches hotel was being built on the top of the mountain. The only thing I can find online are a few articles that don't give much detail and a single green map from a 1980's atlas. This would be quite interesting as the fault line corresponds perfectly to the prophecy mentioned in Zechariah 14:4. 2604:CB00:385:5000:306F:54EE:D9C5:2AA0 (talk) 05:28, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Where’s the mention of the Palestinians who live there?

I’m disgusted. People who always lived there throughout its history never get mentioned. They’re not ghost. 2001:8F8:1E6F:B97D:FC1A:408B:8E5F:2D66 (talk) 18:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

In the article: "Atop the hill lies the Palestinian neighbourhood of At-Tur, a former village that is now part of East Jerusalem." Agmonsnir (talk) 17:31, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

'Mount (of) The Olives'

whentranslating from Hebrew, the Heb word "the" often gets translated as "of". In this case, Har HaZeitem literally translates "Mount The Olives", and the word "of" is simply implied in the Hebraic thought process. 50.125.114.190 (talk) 14:39, 27 July 2024 (UTC)