Talk:Donets Railway

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Requested move 5 July 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 14:40, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Donets Railway → Donetsk Railway – This is controversial, as it is in essence a decision between different ways of transliterating Cyrillic (either from Ukrainian or from Russian). the article was at WP:PNT and I have tidied the English to the best of my ability, and also Donetsk railway station. This s quite simply a request for WP:CONSISTENT, following e.g. Donetsk, the Donetsk Oblast, the Donetsk People's Republic and Donetsk International Airport. Indeed, the infobox logo file is "Logo of Donetsk Railway.png". It was moved on 12 August 2018 by User:Aleksandr Grigoryev, from Donetsian Railway, which was a reasonable thing to do. There are several redirects with the adjective "Donetsian", but those aren't a problem as such. We have also the historical Donets Governorate: I'm in two minds whether formally to list that here. 185.62.130.241 (talk) 16:28, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Technically the railway is named after the region along [Siversky] Donets river rather than the city. Donetsk Oblast and an airport are named after the city. I am fine with Donets or Donetsk name, but definitely not Donetsian which is about of the same origin as DNR. The DNR does not really exists and official is known as separate raions (districts) of Donetsk Oblast (ORDO). For propaganda purposes the Russian-occupied territories around Donetsk are named as DNR, same as the so-called Islamic state of Syria and Levant. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:39, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the past there existed two railways Northern Donets Railway centered in Severodonetsk (Northern Donetsk) and Southern Donets Railway centered in Stalino/Donetsk. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:40, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the Railway precedes the name of the City. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:50, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Donets Railway was established by Russian industrialist Savva Mamontov at the end of the 19th century, while the city of Stalino became Donetsk in 1961. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 16:58, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, usage in textbooks available via Google Books search seems to be fairly evenly divided. "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds", of course, but it would be good to establish the WP:COMMONNAME, which tends to prefer the modern spelling over the historical one, but it's a fairly fine balance. I'll leave a message at WT:Rail. cross-referencing here. I'm completely neutral myself, I was just tidying the English running text. We haven't Donets Railroad nor Donetsk Railroad, so at least the WP:ENGVAR "Railway" seems uncontroversial and universal for this particular rail system's name in English. 185.62.130.241 (talk) 07:23, 6 July 2020 (UTC):[reply]

I've left a message at WT:Rail#Donetsk Railway, or Donets Railway inviting editors to contribute to the discussion here (to keep it in once place). 185.62.130.241 (talk) 07:35, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, the name of the railway originates from Donets Basin (Russian: Донецкий угольный бассейн), from which Donbass is an acronym. This means it must remain Donets Railway. Donetsia railway does not make sense to me.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That makes no sense at all.

"Donbass" is not an acronym.
Nobody proposed "Donetsia railway"
I suggested that User:Aleksandr Grigoryev's change from "Donetsian" was a sensible change from adjective to noun form, whether with or without the "k" in "Donetsk"
The etymology of "Donbass", "Donets", "Donetsk" or any other form of words in English or any other language is irrelevant. That can be given in the article lede using e.g. {{ety}}. What we are here to find, is the WP:COMMONNAME understood by most English-language WP:READERs? Same ed as proposer, on different IP 94.21.252.210 (talk) 22:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry that it makes no sense for you, but it is what it is. You can not invent a name of a company out of the blue.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:46, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

94.21.252.210, in the Resource Federation there is another similar territory known as Kuzbass in case you did not know. In 1989 there were strong coal miners protest movement against the Soviet government and it included miners of several regions throughout the Soviet Union including Kuzbass, Donbass, and others. Most English-language readers do not even know where the actual location of Donbass and do not really care what it is and your "commonname" regulation is manipulation. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 14:05, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Reference to "Russia"

I assume these descriptions are too unspecific, as it is not precisely "Russia" that claimed some eastern parts of Ukraine in 2014, but rather the two self-proclaimed people's republics. Also, resources are not "partly owened" by Ukraine. I would correct if I knew more precisely.Meerwind7 (talk) 18:42, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]