Talk:Cai Yuanpei

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 22 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Siyi Shen. Peer reviewers: Wquon, DOGEVOL, Qmao12.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 16:32, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

information added to "Representative Works"

Add Cai Yuanpei's representative works: New Year's Dream. Give a brief introduction to New Year's Dream, including his writing style and the content of his novel. This is copied from my sandbox. User:Siyi Shen/Cai Yuanpei Siyi Shen (talk) 02:55, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Add 2 more WIki page link under "See also" because New Culture Movement and Anarchism in China are helpful to understand this article. Siyi Shen Siyi Shen (talk) 06:09, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Suggestions for further development

Many thanks to Siyi Shen and others for recent additions. We need more editors like you who will step in boldly!

In response to Asilvering ‘s reasonable request, Here are some quick suggestions in hopes that they will inspire even more edits.

1. Many sentences have inadequate or missing references, only some of which are now marked "citation needed". A trip to the library would be ideal, but a search of Google Books would help, if used carefully. Much new material can be taken from Boorman's article or a reasonable detailed text, such as Spence's The Search for Modern China.

1. Need to explain what May Fourth Movement was in order to see Cai’s important role in it; could move material from Biography
2. “Representative work”: only one is mentioned, and no date given for it. Maybe search WorldCat?
3. Explain the importance of Anarchism, a major element in Cai's thought; sources can be found in the notes of the articles on Anarchism in China, Li Shizeng.
4. Style and idiom, not so important, but still worth working on. E.g. “Contributions of Education” to "Contributions on education."
5. Questionable use of sources – the source for the statement that Cai advocated feminism says that Cai was not a feminist. He was one, of course, but in an anarchist sense, which should make an interesting paragraph.
6. Structure and format: Sections are not in logical order (May Fourth Movement only #5?); titles are erratic in capitalization (only capitalize first word); pictures are inserted erratically

Hope this helps and encourages these recent editors to work on other articles in this area. ch (talk) 03:15, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

These suggestions read like the same general improvements that most articles need, so I'm removing the "expert needed" tag. If there is some specific detail that requires an expert to parse, we can discuss adding the tag. For anyone reading these suggestions, go for it! czar 21:30, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

I've done a quick CE pass, but that's still left in all the #5 issues. I'm not actually sure what sentence you mean about "Cai advocated feminism" - if you tag that one specifically with "failed verification" or whatever seems more relevant, I can try to have a look? And actually, since you are an expert, would you mind having a quick look at how I rephrased the 男主外女主内 sentence? What was there previously struck me as a strange way to translate it, but I'm certainly not an expert here. -- asilvering (talk) 15:16, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Great that you are giving this special attention, Asilvering -- I guess you are becoming the "expert" I called for! The article is going in the right direction. Cai is a major figure and deserves your work, which I hope will attract other editors, as well.

One big help in expanding the article further is the entry in Boorman's Biographical Dictionary, for which I added the link.

Do you have access to a university library? Another good source on the May Fourth Movement is Jonathan Spence's Search for Modern China (1999) In the US you can get it from such sites as AbeBooks for less than US$10, including postage.

Cai's feminism is complicated. You have done a nice job in the "Women" section, though you might think about changing the title.

Also, in your next ce, you might change "Thoughts" (meaning random thoughts) to "Thought," that is, his overall thinking on the subject.

If you're interested, the article Anarchism in China has good background.

Dealing with #6 should be fun! WP:Be Bold! Maybe move May Fourth to its logical place after "Biography," add a general description for readers (maybe look at the linked articles for Hu Shi and New Culture Movement), then make subsections of "Educational thought", "Political thought," and "Feminism." Maybe no need for subsections of "Educational thought", just separate paragraphs.

To be sure, this will take some time, but this page got more than 1,000 views in the last month, so you will have a large audience.

ch (talk) 16:45, 26 April 2022 (UTC)