Talk:Arianiti family

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Komnena Nemanjić

Could it be that the name Komneni has any connection to Komnena Nemanjić?--Zoupan 21:10, 31 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Coat of arms

User:AlbertBikaj on Commons uploaded this image, claiming to be a "Arianiti logo by Vittorio Gifra". Is there any truth to this version?--Zoupan 01:14, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At his website Gifra explained that COAs he draw are not historical ones but his modifications and interpretations. That is very beautiful artistic work but not encyclopedical and should not be used on wikipedia. Also, there is an copyright issue also. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:27, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I got Vittorio Gifra's copyright! So dont worry,he is my friend.! talk — Preceding unsigned comment added by AlbertBikaj (talk • contribs) 11:02, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Copyvio or not, the fact is that it's unsourced.Alexikoua (talk) 15:40, 26 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

The title of the article is Arianiti. There were no "Arianiti Comneni"- it's a fictional name and claim produced in Italy by Constantine Arianiti in order to claim bigger lands for his family to the extent that the Italian states managed to defeat the Ottomans. The family was never known historically as "Arianiti Comneni" and Constantine's claims were never recognized. I have asked @Kj1595: to stop adding such edits which lower article quality, cause inconsistencies between the lead and the title and in general introduce ahistorical narratives into articles. We write articles based on modern bibliography, we don't write them based on what someone claimed in 16th century Italy and we definitely don't pick article titles based on how 16th century publications in Italy spelled certain names.--Maleschreiber (talk) 20:49, 24 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You seem uninformed when it comes to Albanian history and particularly medieval Albanian history. It's bad enough that you replaced the family's coat of arms, derived from a reputable source such as the Bavarian State Library with a completely made up image that lacks a source, but you double down your argument and make some shallow comments about the family's namesake as if I decided to name them Arianiti Comneni because one of their heirs was named Cominatus? Really? It isn't so hard to find contemporary sources like Elsie >> "Early Albania: A Reader of Historical Texts, 11th-17th Centuries" (p.51).

You don't seem to understand that what you claim as "modern bibliography" is in fact information borrowed from the historiography of Communist Albania. Where names of people, their images and biographies were manipulated to suit state agenda. I look at foreign archives to gather information. Not Enver Hoxha's textbooks. Kj1595 (talk) 06:40, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewing the article, I notice Shuteriqi being cited as a source on several ocassions. What a surprise. One of Hoxha's favorite scholars happens to be the source. The same Shuteriqi who came up with a made up theory that Ippen's coat of arms discovered in Ndërfandina belonged to the Progoni family. Kj1595 (talk) 08:11, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to change the title, file a discussion at RM and see if you find consensus for your edits. The article isn't based on "Hoxha's favorite scholars" and your personal research is not a reliable source. (Side comment: searching for old publications in google books is not research.) Shuteriqi is a reliable source which is cited by many publications unlike your personal "research" and your grievances. What I said above is exactly what modern historiography discusses: The family was never known historically as "Arianiti Comneni" and Constantine's claims were never recognized. Bibiliography doesn't discuss any "Arianiti Comneni" family. There are 336 google scholar results for "Arianiti" versus ... 7 for "Arianiti Comneni" which means that you'll never be able to change the title of the article because almost nobody uses your preferred version in relevant bibliography.--Maleschreiber (talk) 21:08, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, no matter what the Arianiti or period writers referred to them as, Wikipedia policies do not justify replacing Arianiti with Arianiti Comneni; especially when the former is overwhelmingly mentioned in the bibliography compared to the latter. Lezhjani1444 (talk) 22:42, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Evaluating grammar

@Maleschreiber: @Βατο: It's perplexing to me that the both of you can't seem to grasp the most basic understanding of english grammar. They teach at elementary school that the determiner a is never placed in front of a noun that starts with a vowel. You don't say or write a Albanian but rather an Albanian. In this specific instance, an Albanian noble family is not the correct way to piece the phrase. Cambridge Dictionary provides a good explanation in showing that a determiner is usually followed by an adjective and then a noun. Kj1595 (talk) 00:08, 2 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]