Talk:2022 FIFA World Cup qualification (UEFA)

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November 14 to 20, 2021

Final play-off teams

While I acknowledge that the info is sourced from UEFA, I am not sure that it is correct. There are 20 groups winners and runners-up in the first round of these quals, but only 16 group winners from the NL. So, unlikely as it is, it is possible for all group winners from the NL to be qualified in the WC quals before we try and find the two "additional teams". What happens then? It is unusual for UEFA to miss this sort of possibility, they usually have caveats around all sorts of unlikely outcomes (for example, in the NL regulations they note they won't have play-outs if any of the four teams involved were in the World Cup play-off stage). And (even more so) do we think UEFA would come up with a system for the WC quals where a League D group winner (maybe Liechtenstein) that finished 6th in their WC group would be given a spot in the play-offs ahead of a team that finished third in a WC group but was an Italy or Netherlands? The description is source from (at least two) UEFA locations, but doesn't show up in the actual NL regulations document (which just says two teams based on NL ranking) 42.62.213.230 (talk) 07:20, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

UEFA only confirmed the format in December, while the Nations League regulations were published in September. Anyways, the UNL regulations are not authoritative for the European Qualifiers. UEFA may publish a more detailed document on the qualifying format and selection criteria in the coming year, though it is also worth noting the Euro 2020 regulations did miss a caveat (no explanation of what would happen in the play-offs if fewer than 4 teams from League D had not qualified directly, and at least one of the teams was a NL group winner). Also, based on the draw, if two or more qualifying groups contain three NL group winners (or one group contains four NL group winners), then your unlikely scenario would no longer be possible. S.A. Julio (talk) 13:59, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Qatar guest spot

Apparently Qatar will take part in the qualification too, although they are qualified as hosts. Should we mention it? --Mazewaxie (talk • contribs) 11:46, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is already mentioned in the article. S.A. Julio (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Two qualified teams by UNL

In the initial situation, Czech Republic (group E) and Hungary (group I) would be classified to play-off as group winners of UEFA Nations League. They would be in green highlight. --Ecomar1 (talk) 15:00, 14 December 2020 (UTC) You can see it how in the Spanish edition of this article--Ecomar1 (talk) 10:48, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ecomar1: Since no matches have yet been played, there is no way of knowing whether a nation would qualify directly to the World Cup, to the playoffs by virtue of being ranked 2nd in the group, or to the playoffs by virtue of their UNL result. We will update the tables as the matches are played, and if CZE or HUN go to the playoffs by virtue of their UNL result then the tables will be edited accordingly. — Jkudlick ⚓ t ⚓ c ⚓ s 00:30, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jkudlick: Yes, no matches have been played. But that is not the currently criteria respect the first and the second ranked in the group because they are assigned as classified and as play-off respectly.--Ecomar1 (talk) 14:28, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Where's Russia?

Russia will take part in the qualifiers. Why was it removed from the group H table?--Celtic1985 (talk) 13:41, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Celtic1985: This was due to unfortunate vandalism from a few IPs, it has now been reverted. S.A. Julio (talk) 17:26, 18 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gibraltar, eliminated

With 4 matches to play, Gibraltar can only reach 12 points. Both "G" group leaders have 13 points so Gibraltar is already eliminated. --181.229.135.137 (talk) 13:35, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gibraltar also won their group in the 2020–21 UEFA Nations League. Unless another team outside Group E (which contains 3 other Nations League group winners) finishes outside Top 2 in their groups, Gibraltar is not officially eliminated from World Cup contention. Jalen Folf (talk) 15:36, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I do not agree. World Cup regulations regarding the UEFA qualifiers specify that in order to advance into the next phase of competition, each team must at least reach second place in its group, and compare its performance with that of the other teams also finished in second place. Gibraltar no longer has a chance of reaching second place in its group. Thanks.

--181.229.135.137 (talk) 17:21, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jalen is correct. 12 teams advance to round 2 of UEFA qualifiers, the 10 runner-ups in each group, as well as the best 2 Nations League group winners not already advancing/qualifying. Gibraltar cannot advance directly through their group, but they technically can take one of the Nation League spots if all (but one) of the other Nation League group winners ranked above them place in the top 2 of their respective qualification groups. JenningsTheCrow (talk) 20:28, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Map for UEFA teams

I personally don't think that the map showing only European teams is necessary, and I think it should have been removed. 009988aaabbbccc (talk) 14:56, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, since this page is about the European qualification, I disagree with you and think it does add something. - FakirNL (talk) 09:06, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If Q means is qualified to the phase indicated then...

Why this...

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	Belgium (Q)	7	6	1	0	24	5	+19	19	Qualification to 2022 FIFA World Cup
2	Wales (A)	7	4	2	1	13	8	+5	14	Advance to second round
3	Czech Republic (A)	7	3	2	2	12	9	+3	11	Advance to second round
4	Estonia (E)	7	1	1	5	9	19	−10	4
5	Belarus (E)	8	1	0	7	7	24	−17	3

Updated to match(es) played on 13 November 2021. Source: FIFA, UEFA
Rules for classification: Tiebreakers
(A) Advance to a further round; (E) Eliminated; (Q) Qualified for the phase indicated

...and not this...

Pos	Team	Pld	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Pts	Qualification
1	Belgium (Q)	7	6	1	0	24	5	+19	19	2022 FIFA World Cup
2	Wales (Q)	7	4	2	1	13	8	+5	14	Second round
3	Czech Republic (Q)	7	3	2	2	12	9	+3	11	Second round
4	Estonia (E)	7	1	1	5	9	19	−10	4
5	Belarus (E)	8	1	0	7	7	24	−17	3

Updated to match(es) played on 13 November 2021. Source: FIFA, UEFA
Rules for classification: Tiebreakers
(E) Eliminated; (Q) Qualified for the phase indicated

...?

- 0m9Ep (talk) 15:28, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@0m9Ep: Because the teams that won their groups qualified for the World Cup and no longer need to participate in qualification. The runners-up and two best Nations League group winners (Austria and Wales/Czech Republic) have not yet qualified and must still play to determine the final three teams, so they have advanced to the second round of qualification. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 20:08, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I know, but my question is: Do we need the A and has Belgium qualified for the qualification tournament of the World Cup and not the World Cup itself? — 0m9Ep (talk) 13:55, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@0m9Ep: The Q or A shows that the team has either qualified for or is advancing to what is shown on that line in the qualification column. In this case, Belgium have qualified for the World Cup, and Wales and Czech Republic will advance to the UEFA playoff round. After today, the letters will be removed since the group round will be complete. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 20:33, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You don't really see my point, do you?! You just repeat the same explanation, which, though true, is irrelevant! — 0m9Ep (talk) 21:28, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@0m9Ep: You have not made your point clear. All you did was reformat a table with no explanation of your reasoning behind it. I fail to see how explaining the difference between Qualifying to a tournament or Advancing to the next round of qualification is irrelevant, especially since I was involved in the initial development of Module:Sports table and know the logic behind choosing Q vs A. Your query, however, will soon be moot since the final group round matches are, at this very minute, nearing their end. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 21:39, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's perfectly clear: A is superfluos and the Qualification column is ambiguous. If you don't want to address the point, please refrain from commenting! — 0m9Ep (talk) 23:20, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@0m9Ep: You did not make your question clear at any point until now. And my point was perfectly clear; there is a huge difference between qualifying for a tournament and advancing to the next round of qualification for that tournament. I fail to understand how the phrases "Qualification to the World Cup" and "Advance to play-offs" are ambiguous, especially when read in context with the article as a whole. I note you earlier asked if Belgium had qualified for the qualification tournament or to the World Cup itself. This is a prime example of not reading the context of the article as a whole, given that the article is about the UEFA qualification tournament to the World Cup; how could a team be attempting to qualify for a tournament by competing in the very tournament for which they were attempting to qualify?

If you truly feel that having both A and Q is superfluous, you are more than welcome to address that at Module talk:Sports table since that is where any changes to the module must be requested. However, it has long been established that in multi-round qualifications for tournaments, the Q indicates that the team has qualified for that tournament, and the A means that the team will play in the next round of qualification. The reason the text is "Qualified for the phase indicated" is because there are times where a single set of matches is used toward qualification for multiple tournaments. For example, the first two rounds of AFC qualification served as qualifiers for both the World Cup and the 2023 AFC Asian Cup, and the second round group winners and the best runners-up qualified for the Asian Cup tournament and also advanced to the third round of World Cup qualifiers. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 23:55, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't have anything new to say I am afraid you are just adding to the problem. — 0m9Ep (talk) 00:04, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Group ranking, or "classification"

Below the second placed teams table is this:

Rules for classification: Counting only matches against teams ranked first to fifth in the group, 1. Points; 2. Goal difference; 3. Goals scored; 4. Away goals scored; 5. Wins; 6. Away wins; 7. Lower disciplinary points total; 8. Position in 2020–21 UEFA Nations League access list.

but do the same criteria apply to ranking the teams in the groups themselves? --Nick Barnett (talk) 22:14, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick Barnett: The tiebreaker criteria for all qualification groups (unless otherwise specified) is here. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 21:36, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jkudlick: Ah, yes, thanks. Nick Barnett (talk) 08:19, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Issue

Current issue with reference number 43.--Island92 (talk) 23:37, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 00:17, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Prohibited clashes

In the section sub-headed Prohibited clashes is Russia/Ukraine. Does that prohibition apply to the draw for the play-offs?
And how about teams coming from the same group: Wales and the Czech republic, and Scotland and Austria?
I've downloaded the reference, "Regulatory articles for the 2020–2022 European qualifiers play-offs" (PDF). FIFA, but it's not helpful. Nick Barnett (talk) 17:51, 17 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nick Barnett: Teams coming from the same group can indeed be drawn together. The "prohibited clashes" are due to the very high potential for security concerns due to political / religious / other tensions between the nations, and they are avoided to the extent possible. In this case, Russia and Ukraine cannot be drawn into the same paths (A, B, or C); there are no other constraints on the draw. — Jkudlick ⚓ (talk) 18:14, 19 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2022 FIFA World Cup qualification which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 10:06, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Russia

Is it true to say that Russia is “disqualified”? I believe they have been banned from playing for now. But, their next match is not until end of March. Assuming something changes between now and then, they could theoretically play, right? Seems premature (though, likely, obviously). 2601:603:5000:A1A:7C85:1DAB:4A27:54C1 (talk) 21:00, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you that it's a matter of concern and it's unclear. A similar issue came up as to the article about this year's F1 Russian Grand Prix. The FIA announced that it's impossible to hold the race (which was scheduled for September 25 in Sochi) under the present circumstances. The sports media almost universally reported it as a cancellation, but a number of Wikipedia editors pointed out—I suppose with some validity—that the FIA didn't actually say they were cancelling it, presumably because September 25 is still over six months away and they wanted to allow for a reversal if the situation changes. From a rational standpoint, the same principle seems like it would apply here given that FIFA and UEFA used the word "suspended," recognizing of course that the March soccer games are a lot closer on the horizon than a September auto race. On the other hand, the March qualifiers are only what, three weeks away now? I'm not sure it's worth the trouble of bothering under the circumstances because it'll be clear one way or the other pretty soon, regardless of how the FIFA and UEFA statements were worded. 1995hoo (talk) 19:41, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deletions re Russia suspensions

Some editor just sought to delete the RS-supported facts. That's not proper. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2022_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)&diff=1077886624&oldid=1077859265 --2603:7000:2143:8500:8009:3F69:BFD1:1E9C (talk) 18:53, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And the editor is at it again. This time his "rationale" in seeking to hide the suspension is that mention of it (and the accompanying clearly clarifying edits) is "not necessary." Can someone please take a look? He just keeps on edit warring the same way a bot would. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2022_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)&diff=1077999554&oldid=1077995977 2603:7000:2143:8500:D19C:A36E:6A3A:C15E (talk) 09:45, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

An evaluation of the News18 source provided in your version states the FIFA ban that's part of the appeal is still awaiting a decision, and the upheld ban only relates to the UEFA ban. As this is a FIFA-sanctioned competition, it's easier if we wait for a decision regarding FIFA's ban before adding such material. Jalen Folf (talk) 19:56, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@JalenFolf: A little bit off-topic, I think the appeal over UEFA ban is also still spending, only the request for a temporary lift was rejected.[1] @IPs: Firstly, Island92 and I are 2 separate editors. Secondly, apart from that 'RS-supported facts' (explained by JalenFolf), you only changed some wording, split a not very long paragraph, added 'suspended in 2022' to 'Status of Russia' (that section covers more than the current sanction, and the 'suspended' part should not be highlighted), therefore I considered it "unnecessary". The edits that Island92 had reverted were largely the same, except a part which I have reinstated later (a category added). Centaur271188 (talk) 21:17, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mongolia

Mongolia has been added in Group F, if I understand correctly instead of Israel. Can someone explain why ? Mongolia is not part of UEFA and didn't participate in these qualifiers. Lianja972 (talk) 15:28, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]