Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film

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Award nominee article improvements

I feel that the articles for this year's award nominated films could be improved a great deal. Anyone concur? RAP (talk) 17:31 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Lost or incomplete?

Does a film with only a surviving trailer belong in List of lost films or List of incomplete or partially lost films? I'm doing a cleanup and there are examples in both lists. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:51, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Never mind. I've decided they belong in the latter. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:06, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I'd go with the latter too. Nice work on these lists as well. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 10:25, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Still a long ways to go. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:49, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

Actor vs. Actress

All right. I have a question for the project. Some female actors (i.e. actresses) may prefer to use the term "actor". Would it be appropriate to use either "actors" or "actresses" for female actors? Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:48, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

I tend just to use "actor" across the board. It's easier, cleaner and leaves no room for squabbling. GRAPPLE X 18:49, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Rocky 2

Has anyone seen Rocky 2 recently, or clearly remember the ending? An editor has contested my revert of his edit, which I felt was a "viewer interpretation"; my reasons are at User talk:Betty Logan#Rocki_II_edits. In truth though my memories of it are fuzzy at best so I'm not really sure if my revert was correct anyway. Can someone familiar with the ending have a look, and if the original edit was correct then please feel free to revert mine. Betty Logan (talk) 01:25, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Betty, Betty, Betty. What is this, 1994? Youtube that ending. That said the bracketed edit he is making is still stupid and unnecessary. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 01:31, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

The Thin Red Line cast list

I would like some other editors to take a look at the cast list for this film and help me answer some questions. I reverted an anonymous editor's changes to the cast list, but, comparing our cast list to that found on IMDb, I noticed some discrepancies, mostly characters whose first names are not given on IMDb. Since the latter's list is said to match the final credits, what is the source for our list? Why is our list not also in credits order? And, last but not least, why are there significant differences in some of these names? I am puzzled by this and would like to hear some other opinions. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 16:08, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Significant how? If it's first names it might just be someone taking the first name from the film because it is mentioned during the plot. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 16:44, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

I guess I was unclear. Take a look at this most recent diff to see the change made by the anon. editor today. Yet, when you look at the IMDb page, many of these characters' first names are not show at all. I have a problem, and maybe I am alone in this, with people filling in first names based on something they heard in the film. In the past, some of the names were changed completely. This is why I have a problem with people making changes based on their own viewing of the film. I attempted to discuss this on the article talk page, but received no response. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 00:59, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Looking at the version of the article that passed GA, it looks like that list was not there anyway and was replaced by the casting section, so you can feel free to remove it if you want, but considering the changes and the previous version containing a character whose name was apparently Charles E. Lee, I'm guessing they are too unreliable to keep as they are and should be reverted to strict credits at the minimum. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 08:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I made what I consider a compromise: rather than delete it altogether, I altered to match IMDb's and added a hidden comment saying not to alter it without good reason. But, yeah, hidden comments are always read and abided by, right? Thanks, DWB. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 00:51, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article review/Jurassic Park (film)/archive1

This FAR is overdue, so join in discussion. In the meanwhile, do not be afraid to fix the article Jurassic Park. --George Ho (talk) 00:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Category:Films distributed by Disney

Category:Films distributed by Disney, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:01, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Dispute at Argo (2012 film)

There's an ongoing disagreement between several (two?) editors on this material's worthiness of inclusion. There has been no discussion started, only reverting. Additional eyes and outside opinions might be helpful. 216.16.228.78 (talk) 20:09, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I think the paragraphs are fairly irrelevant as there already exists articles about the historical basis. However I'll defer to Erik and Betty Logan who have more experience in these matters and are better qualified to judge. - Fantr (talk) 21:08, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

If there's material directly related to how the historical events were adapted to this specific film script then add it, if not then a "see also" link to Canadian Caper at the start of a section on the production is all that's needed. GRAPPLE X 21:15, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Ideally, we should let the historical articles cover the matter, but it is not unprecedented to have such a section. The Featured Article Changeling (film) has a decent "Historical context" section. Erik (talk | contribs) 22:09, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

The "historical context" section in the Changeling (film) directly relates to that film's story. I believe Argo's disputed "historical context" section is more background information not directly related to the film's story as it mentions people and incidents that don't occur in the film. I favour removing the disputed section especially as several senior editors on that particular film's page feel strongly about removing it. - Fantr (talk) 23:17, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

I am one of the involved editors in this dispute, and actually came here to start a discussion on this very topic. The fact is, I have started two separate discussions on the article talk page regarding the historical background and accuracy of the film, but have no received much in the way of helpful responses. My position on the larger matter of historical accuracy is that this film is a fiction "inspired by" true events, so questions of "accuracy" are largely moot. What we have in the article now is a laundry list of errors, many of which are trivial. Then, in the last 24 hours, a long section was added about Rockefeller, Kissinger, the Shah and other figures and events not specifically germane to the events of this film. It is overkill. A brief discussion of the historical background, which is actually shown, in truncated form, in the film's animated prologue, is necessary for context, but should be relevant to the film. Likewise, a discussion of the divergence from the historical record is also necessary, considering that this has been mentioned by a great many critics and journalists, especially in the wake of the Oscar win. But, there is a limit to how much history we should be discussing in an article about a film which, though inspired by historical events, is largely a dramatic concoction of truth and fantasy. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 00:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

We have guidelines at WP:FILMHIST that cover "Historical accuracy" sections. Such sections are permissible if there is coverage specifically assessing the historical accuracy of a film. It is a given aspect of such a film that readers would want to know, and if coverage exists, it should be included. I think Argo should definitely have a "Historical accuracy" section, but editorial discretion is required for the level of detail. The "Historical background" section is a different beast, and we do not have guidelines for that kind of thing since I think we usually entrust the historical articles to explain, well, history. If there's consensus for having such a section for a quick history lesson, I'm fine with that, but I don't feel strongly either way. Erik (talk | contribs) 01:08, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

The guidelines permit a section on comparative analyis using sources that actually compare the film and historical events, but the "historical background" section seems to be just a history lesson thrown into the article and does seem to be superfluous in this case. All the sources predate the existence of the film (some going back to 1981) so fail the basic requirement that historical analysis is introduced within the context of the film. Betty Logan (talk) 07:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Sources that predate the film could be fine if they pertain to an issue of accuracy that is mentioned in a source that postdates the film. --Ring Cinema (talk) 15:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

New user needs some mentoring

Hi guys. I was scanning for articles in template categories and found a bunch in the M's of Category:Japanese film director navigational boxes. They are all the result of User:Righteousskills trying to create new director navboxes by substing in code from existing navboxes (in this case using a Japanese director template as a source, hence ending up in that cat). I've given him some pointers on template use but I don't suppose someone here could mentor him a bit? (S)he could be an asset to your Project, they obviously has enthusiasm and a love of films, it just needs to be focussed a bit. Le Deluge (talk) 17:05, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Disney Vault

Does anyone have anything to add to this discussion? --Rob Sinden (talk) 09:46, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Iran/Persian film stubs

Please see the discussion here. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 10:08, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Variety notice

As some of you may have noticed, Variety has modified their site design to make the site even more unusable. This means at the moment a lot of variety references are not working. It says they are migrating the content over to the new design so hopefully they will come back, but if not, anything you relied on may need searching on the new site or replacing. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 18:32, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Ouch. Betty Logan (talk) 18:46, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Another reason to archive your references.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 18:55, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree—although that may not do us much good soon if Webcite shuts down. Wikipedia really needs to operate its own automatic archiving service. Betty Logan (talk) 19:24, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Yep, the four links on Horrible Bosses all give a Page Not Found link like so with a message they are migrating content over the next few weeks. Whether this means that content will ever come back to that URL, come back at all or take weeks to come back, it;s bad news for any articles using them without an archive. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 18:57, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

They have been migrating some of their more recent content, but they're using new URLs. So even if the content is eventually restored on their new server all the links on all the pages will probably need to be replaced. -Fandraltastic (talk) 19:16, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

So we're screwed basically unless someone has a bot that can compare a ref title against the article title or they institute a redirect system which by all rules of web design they should do. I mean I archive my refs religiously when I can but it's not going to be a universal thing across the Wikipedia. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:06, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Archiving refs? Where do I find out about how to do this? Clarityfiend (talk) 03:22, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Cast discussion at Who Framed Roger Rabbit

Hi there. There seems to be a disagreement over how to present the cast listing on the Who Framed Roger Rabbit article. The discussion is at Talk:Who Framed Roger Rabbit#Cast listing. Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:48, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

• Follow-up - This is now at RfC. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:08, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

LadyGodivafilmposter.jpg

file:LadyGodivafilmposter.jpg has been nominated for speedy deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:42, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Poster of the movie The Big Circus.jpg

File:Poster of the movie The Big Circus.jpg has been nominated for speedy deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

File:Poster of the movie The Man from the Alamo.jpg

File:Poster of the movie The Man from the Alamo.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

The Mark of the Hawk 1957 poster.jpg

file:The Mark of the Hawk 1957 poster.jpg has been nominated for deletion. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:59, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Kingkongvsgodzilla-656x1024.jpg

image:Kingkongvsgodzilla-656x1024.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:59, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Kidnapped1960poster.jpg

file:Kidnapped1960poster.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:59, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Categories for films based on television series

The following are already in this project's Alerts page, but I draw your attention to them as I intend to cite them as precedents to rename other categories to the naming convention "Films based on"... works.

• 27 Feb 2013 – Category:Thunderbirds (TV series) films (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Fayenatic london (t · c); see discussion
• 27 Feb 2013 – Category:Star Trek films (talk · edit · hist) was CfDed by Fayenatic london (t · c); see discussion

– Fayenatic London 18:48, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Notability of the Burgundy Film Critics Awards

Hi. On the article for Amour (and possibly other articles), an IP has added that it has won several awards from the Burgundy Film Critics, stating "It is an association of french critics". But are they notable? Google searching either "Burgundy Film Critics Awards" or "Burgundy Film Critics" doesn't hint towards notability. Does anyone have any further info? Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 20:25, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

These regional critics associations are problematic, in that some are notable and some aren't. My personal feelings on this is that we shouldn't list awards that we don't have articles about. If an editor truly feels a particular award is notable they can create an article about it, and if someone wants to challenge that notion they can nominate for deletion i.e. make inlcusion/exclusion of awards entirely procedural. Betty Logan (talk) 20:48, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

"we shouldn't list awards that we don't have articles about" Yes, that's what I believe too. Thanks Betty. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:03, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

And sometimes not even if they have a Wikipedia article. See Chlotrudis Society for Independent Film. --Tenebrae (talk) 19:47, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

I've Been bold and removed the non-notable awards from the Amour article (they're now on the talkpage). Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:52, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Article "Film director"

Hello, I have rewritten the article Film director. It had been tagged for years and I felt the time had come to try to do something about it... Please check my changes. Moreover I like to suggest to remove one or more the old lists because they are terribly long and one can also get there rather easily by merely using the categories at the bottom of this article. NordhornerII (talk) _The man from Nordhorn 23:33, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Film poster sourcing

Can someone go through Category:Wikipedia files with unknown source and add sources to all the film posters found in this cleanup catgory? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:47, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

When someone asks about IMDb

Members of the project may be interested in the discussions going on here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yuri Gadyukin and here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bucharest Film Festival. You will note that, in furtherance of their project/fantasy/hoax, those involved have created ads, You tube videos and have gone so far as to create pages at IMDb like this [1] and this [2]. It does illustrate how little fact checking is done at IMDb. Another difference is that there is no way to find out who/how/when the IMDb pages were created. At least we can dig into WikiP's edit history to track things. We can also get the hoaxes deleted through the AFD process. I wonder if IMDb even has a process to get rid of made up pages like these. Cheers to all. MarnetteD | Talk 16:41, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

When someone asks about IMDb, I tend to point them to WP:RS/IMDb. I'll use it to verify a cast listing I find dubious or such, and I won't necessarily stomp on it as a citation for things like awards, but otherwise... Doniago (talk) 17:09, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I agree that link is most useful. I was just amazed at the lengths that the people involved in this hoax went (and were able) to go to. So many more places to seed things then when The Blair Witch Project and all its attendant furor happened back in 99. MarnetteD | Talk 17:23, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

RfC: FILMRELEASE—Things to Come‎

I wonder if I could please have some thoughts on the article of the 1936 HG Wells film Things to Come, particularly in relation to the age-old question of WP:FILMRELEASE, along with other pointless additions of US information into the infobox of a British film. Earlier I removed the superfluous US information from the infobox only to have it reverted for no other reason than WP:IDONTLIKEIT. The US dates and other information is not particularly notable in itself—certainly not for the infobox—but could be in the article body instead. I'd be very grateful to hear the thoughts of others on the US material. Thanks - SchroCat (talk) 23:42, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think comment is going to deal with that kind of person, jingoism is a big problem on here, some of us saw it with MervinVerreal or whatever he was called, I've got people right now at The Incredible Burt Wonderstone who are just depserate to add American to the opening sentence, not to add any substantive information or contribute anything to the article of worth, but gotta slap that nationality on there after "upcoming" because they can't wait 2 days for its release so that sentence can be changed properly. In your case, the infobox guidelines support earliest and home country dates only don't they? I indulge someone exactly once, if they keep doing it I start warning, simple as. If it isn't an American film, the American stuff goes. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 23:46, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks for all who commented here and on the talk page—as well as edited appropriately: much appreciated! - SchroCat (talk) 08:46, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Silentera.com: reliable source? Plus other issues

I am transferring over part of the discussion at Talk:List of lost silent films (1925-1929) for more input.

... why are you deleting the Silent Era references from List of lost films? Deutsche Kinemathek considers Silent Era reliable enough to use as one of its sources in compiling its own lost list, e.g. Adrienne Lecouvreur.

Silentera is a "Self-published source" and according to wikipedia rules,WP:USERGENERATED, are not allowed. Silentera has it's own agenda and it clearly interested mainly in silent films, even though they include some sound films in their listing. There are numerous errors in films from the early sound era, showing this disinterest in the period. Additionally, I would hardly call Adrienne Lecouvreur a reliable source. I just checked for some of the most sought after of lost films, including, "The Rogue Song" 1930 and "Gold Diggers of Broadway" 1929, and nothing turned up. If silentera sources are going to be included here, then so should imdb and similiar websites. Both of these sites are selective. I have attempted to list every lost American sound feature film for 1928.1934 in the "list of lost films" and would like to now include a list of all known part-talkies which I have compiled from various sources. By the way, these film are considered lost because they are not known to exist in any archive around the world. In private hands, anything is possible but this list, and any list of lost films, is simply a statement that no print is known to exist in any archive. It is common knowledge (among film buffs of this era) that the films I have listed are lost. They have been lost for decades. But to expect an authoritative source for every film to somehow back up these commonly known facts is absurd. It is more reasonable to include a reference for films known to exist and it can easily be verified by an archive's website. But to expect confirmation for something that is not known to exist any longer? Talkicolor (talk) 23:21, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Silentera has it's own agenda? Well yeah, here we go again with a dumb argument as we did with the allrovi argument. Again somebody has created arbitrary WP rules. So I guess TCM doesn't have an agenda. Every website has an agenda if its to mean something. If you're meaning that he has ad banners advertising silent movies, so what!..it takes money to run a website. Silentera, though not perfect, is one of the best sites on silent films on the net. Those films you listed "The Rogue Song" and "Gold Diggers of Broadway" may not have been list cause in the case of of Rogue Song, it is a 1930 film. Silentera goes up to 1929 and there was no silent version anyway. "Gold Diggers" was all-talking, all-singing, and is a 1929 film. It is most certainly listed on the website. Understand that silent film interest is a niche interest. You're not going to find that element of perfection either on a website or a printed book. Koplimek (talk) 14:15, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

WP:USERG is flawed anyway. It ignorantly states that no selfpublished websites can be used as verifiable sources. That would include everything on the net as everything would be questionable. What the ruling meant was that BLOGS are not to be used as verifiable sources since info is gathered from tepid conversation. The rule is also elitist as it automatically sanctions what are deemed professionals and or published authors which doesn't by virtue ensure accuracy. Koplimek (talk) 14:28, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Agree with Koplimek. While flawed, Silentera is a very good resource for a niche area of cinema. In lieu of anything better, it becomes the defacto RS for silent films. Everything on the internet is user generated. If something is contentious then it should be verified by another RS, or removed altogether. I love how people scoff at the reliability of site (IMDB, being a prime example), yet WP is far from reliable either. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 14:40, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

For the record we are not allowed to use Wikipedia or IMDB as sources, so the question must be asked, where does Silentera get its information? If it is user generated by people like us, then it is no more valid as a source than a Wikipedia article. If the content is created by someone who is published in the area of silent film, or the site is acknowledged as a reputable source in this area by other writers on silent film then that could maybe qualify it, but simply because it supplies information that we want to use does not. Betty Logan (talk) 18:12, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Silentera's agenda is silent films. I have zero interest in silent films. Although they list a few token sound films, there are many errors in the listings for those as their focus is silent film. (For example, they ridiculously states that the print of "Men Without Women" 1930 housed at MOMA is a work print when anyone with an elementary knowledge of the talkie era knows it was an "International Sound Version": http://www.silentera.com/PSFL/data/M/MenWithoutWomen1930.html . Note the references they list to this film "References: Film credits, film viewing : Website-IMDb." Silentera lists IMDB as a reference and yet I can not use the original source that they have used. Furthermore they have a link selling a bootleg copy of this copyrighted film made from a VHS recording from an AMC broadcast(!) http://www.silentera.com/video/menWithoutWomenHV.html.) I was attempting to list all the lost American sound films by the major studios 1928-1934 at List of lost films. Since there is no "Talkieera" website I used links to imdb and tcm as a backup reference to what was listed as being lost as well as a few references to books. The links to imdb.com and tcm.com were removed by User:Clarityfiend who claimed they were self published WP:USERGENERATEDand therefore they were unreliable. I do not see why silentera should get a free pass but the other sites do not. If I were to make a site called talkieera.com can I automatically start using it as a reference on wikipedia? Silentera is a self published source made by fans of silent films. Since I am a talkie fan I should logically be able to do the same? Talkicolor (talk) 19:14, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

See this is where you're disingenuous. Silentera has provided you with information regarding a work print held at the MOMA. Would you have known that if you hadn't researched silentera? You're criticizing silentera for really doing it's job. If you read the whole description of the movie, the last line says that a silent version was also released in lieu of it being 1930. If you're interested in talkies, why spend so much effort dissecting a silent film website. You should give kudos to silentera for going above and beyond the call of duty. Sound films didn't just begin with The Jazz Singer. Sound films go all the way back to 1894. To add perspective to film history Carl Bennett devotes a WHOLE section on early experimental sound films, that is sound or talk films that were produced in what is categorically defined as the silent film era 1894-1929. Explore the website a little more.Koplimek (talk) 00:30, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Whatever its faults, silentera is acknowledged as reliable by Deutsche Kinemathek, a "major German film archive". IMDb trivia is considered reliable by nobody. This means you have to work harder to source sound films than silents. That's just how it is. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I already knew that MOMA has a print of the film. Silent era has provided me with no information, only errors. It is not a work print. It is the "International Sound Version." It is clear that the people are completely confused. They say that the print is a "compilation of sound and silent footage./ [?]" And you seem to be confused yourself. Studios would produce "International Sound Versions" as a cheaper alternative to re-shooting the film in another language (known as "Foreign Language Version"). The English titles would be replaced with the appropriate foreign language title cards in whatever language was necessary. Numerous examples of "International Sound Versions" have survived. If you had read my previous comment you would realize that I am only criticizing the use of silentera as a source because my reference citations to both tcm and imdb were removed. Silentera itself uses imdb as a source. Look at this page once again http://www.silentera.com/PSFL/data/M/MenWithoutWomen1930.html Look at the bottom at the sources given: References: Film credits, film viewing : Website-IMDb Silentera's only source for this page is IMDB. So you have just said that the one of the original sources for silentera is not reliable, but that silentera is.Talkicolor (talk) 15:34, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

So silentera has at least one dubious entry. It is trusted enough, as I've stated several times, for it to be used by others.

Show me where I've taken out anything other than IMDb trivia and a couple of "references" to other Wikipedia articles.[3]

Renaming The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe

The title of the 2005 film is now discussed. Please join in to improve consensus. --George Ho (talk) 06:59, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Over Your Cities Grass Will Grow

I tried to submit an AFC to get an article going about this Fiennes' documentary, Over Your Cities Grass Will Grow. I just learned about the movie in a presentation at the local museum, and I wanted to read more. My first choice would have been to just read a Wikipedia article about it, and there I would find the links to its website, the director, the artist. But there was no Wikipedia article, just a few mentions in the director's, artist's and musician's articles, and my Google search for the tile AND movie OR film gave me half a million hits.

It seemed a no-brainer to start a Wikipedia article, but I ran into an editor who is demanding an unspecified number of references and deems The Guardian and The New York Times, to be questionable sources. I added half a dozen more sources, but I cannot win a battle with a user who calls NYTimes a "questionable" source.

For outsiders at Wikipedia it is completely arbitrary what will be sufficient for an article. Learning that the NYTimes is a questionable source is the sort of arbitrary stuff that outsiders at Wikipedia are frequently faced with. I think this could be an article. It does meet the stated requirements of having two reviews in notable sources (the Times is not a questionable source), and it has multiple other reviews. It opened at Cannes in 2010, a non-invited film, but still notable enough to open there. It has been released in over a dozen countries.

Flat out, it is notable. I have more sources to add, but for now I put it in the director's article. It should be a stand alone film article, though.

What else do I need? Thanks. -68.99.89.234 (talk) 04:45, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Over Your Cities Grass Will Grow
Directed by	Sophie Fiennes
Produced by	Sophie Fiennes Émilie Blézat Kees Kasander
Cinematography	Remko Schnorr
Edited by	Ethel Shepherd
Music by	Jörg Widmann György Ligeti
Production companies	Amoeba Film Kasander Film Company Sciapode
Release dates	May 16, 2010 (2010-05-16) (Cannes Film Festival) October 10, 2011 (2011-10-10) (United States)
Running time	105 minutes
Country	France

Over Your Cities Grass Will Grow is a 2010 Sophie Fiennes documentary about German industrial artist Anselm Kiefer's creation of a Gesamtkunstwerk in an abandoned factory complex outside Barjac, France. Kiefer moved to the South of France from Germany in 1993 and began creating his art installation on the acreage of an old silk factory. The film begins with a lengthy silence to show the tunnels and spaces the artist created before showing the artist and his process in creating a large landscape painting. The film opened at Cannes in 2010 as a special screening.

External links

• Official website
• Over Your Cities Grass Must Grow at IMDb