Talk:2022 Atlantic hurricane season

Colin & Earl

I am currently working on a page draft for tropical storm colin and hurricane earl, if you want to help. you can Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 23:32, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

I would not do those storms as they were not notable enough to have one (Earl might have it). The same issue occurred with Karl, it had to be scrapped due to lack of notability. Also, Im not sure on wiki policy, but could you link where the drafts are so I can check them out? Mitch199811 (talk) 00:08, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Actually, I may want to apologize. One thing I want to know is, what is a notable Tropical Storm? Mitch199811 (talk) 00:18, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

notable storms as storms well-known/historic. like hurricane ida, ian, or fiona. but it still dosen’t have to have their names retired just to be notable Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 00:26, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Im aware, cause there is one for Hermine due to how far east it formed. However, Colin and Earl just dont seem notable if they only did "minimal" damage and killed 4 people all together. Mitch199811 (talk) 00:41, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Colin: Draft:Tropical Storm Colin (2022) and Earl: Draft:Hurricane Earl (2022) Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 00:23, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Given the circumstances—remained at sea (Earl), short-lived (Colin), minimal impact (both), low death toll (both), little more to say beyond what is said in the season article (both)—I think that the best way to present both of these storms to readers is in the 'Systems' section of this article rather than through separate articles. (WP:NOPAGE). Drdpw (talk) 01:06, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Hurricane Blas (2022) had minimal impact and remained at sea but they had article per WP:GNG HurricaneEdgar 12:15, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

This is a WP:OSE argument, please prove how EARL was notable enough for an article. I oppose the creation of this article as right now the information can be summed up in the main article here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:36, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Since Earl and Colin have been accepted, should we add Karl as well? Mitch199811 (talk) 15:03, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, however nearly all of the names storm of this season are articles (except for Danielle and Gaston.) But still, Karl may be created if it meets the WP:GNG criteria. Sarrail (talk) 18:03, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

As Colin has been adjudged as notable enough to have an article, Karl certainly is as well; go for it. Drdpw (talk) 21:38, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Ok, it is now here. Mitch199811 (talk) 12:28, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

1) There has been multiple storms named Karl; there should be (2022) after the draft title. 2) There is a draft here, but it was redirected. Sarrail (talk) 12:57, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

if there is more source on the preparations and impact then, add in the draft. HurricaneEdgar 13:09, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Ok thank you! Mitch199811 (talk) 21:37, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Just an FYI that most of the storms in this Atlantic Hurricane season are included in articles. Only one, Gaston, does not have one. Karl is currently a draft. Sarrail (talk) 22:03, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Hurricane Fiona the Strongest?

Hurricane Fiona is no longer the strongest hurricane in the season, It would be Hurricane Ian. Can somebody fix that please? Fiona got max 130 MPH, Ian got max 150 MPH.ThisUsernameIsAlreadyInUsePleaseChooseADifferentName (talk) 16:09, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Read the note next to Fiona's name. Strength is determined by minimum pressure, not wind speed. --Pokelova (talk) 16:22, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi there! There have been multiple discussions about this since the two storms reached their respective peak intensities! NOAA and other agencies recognize a season's strongest storm by its minimum pressure, rather than its maximum wind speed. While Fiona reached winds of 130 and Ian 155, Fiona's minimum pressure was 932 hPa and Ian's was 936, hence why Fiona is listed as the strongest. There is a note listed by Fiona's name on the main article with the season's info of "strongest storm", "damages" "deaths", etc, that explains this. :) Gumballs678 talk 16:23, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Even though Ian has a higher wind speed, it has 936 mbar pressure, with 155 mph wind speeds, so Ian wind fastest wind speeds, and Fiona wins lowest pressure. Jakewastaken3145 (talk) 19:53, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Hurricane Danielle (revisited)

I am placing this here as I just turned Hurricane Danielle (2022) into a redirect. We already had a discussion on the matter here: Talk:2022 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 1#Danielle page?, the impacts easily fit into the main article here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 00:31, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

As someone who worked on it, I strangely agree. Next time someone makes a Danielle page, they should probably expand it bit more. The impacts do fit into this article, though someone could create a good article for Danielle if they wanted to. Hurricane Chandler (talk) 01:07, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

The same can be said for Colin, Earl and Karl, yet there has been a rush to publish small articles that do little more than repeat information from this article. Drdpw (talk) 01:35, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I mean if Colin and Earl have articles similar to Danielle’s, I think the redirect should be undone. Hurricane Su (talk) 01:43, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry but these WP:WAX arguments are weak. Danielle caused no damage, nobody died from it, and the storm broke no records. These storms should be judged by their individual merit as WP:WAX will not hold weight at an WP:AfD. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 04:59, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

True. Out of all the articles for this season (Ex. Earl, Colin), Danielle was the shortest article and doesn’t need an article. Hurricane Su (talk) 12:01, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

If Danielle had made landfall in Portugal and caused damages and fatalities, then Danielle would've had an article. Instead, it struck Portugal as an extratropical storm and caused basically no damage and fatalities. Only heavy rains fell. Impacts fit inside the section. The only "thing" notable was the state of emergency of Portugal. Danielle isn't enough to warrant an article. Sarrail (talk) 13:04, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Pinging @Rainbow Galaxy POC: so that they can see this discussion. Sarrail (talk) 13:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

User:Hurricane Chandler - I am confused. You appear to be saying here that you agree with the redirection. You asked me on my talk page if I would reverse the redirection:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Robert_McClenon&type=revision&diff=1118405951&oldid=1118252728&diffmode=source

Is there a Special Notability Guide for when stand-alone articles are in order for tropical storms, as opposed to redirection to the paragraphs in the season article. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:15, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: I have been under the impression that cyclones whose story could be fully told within the (size confines of the) season-article systems section usually, unless there was something notable about the storm/hurricane itself, or about its course or land impacts, didn't "get" (warrant) a separate article. This all mirroring the spirit of WP:NOPAGE. This season however, it seems like any land-falling or people-impacting storm is presumed to be worthy of its own article. This all mirroring the spirit of WP:GNG. Here's what the project page (Wikipedia:WikiProject Tropical cyclones#Article guidelines) states (in part) concerning when stand-alone articles are in order for tropical storms:

• Articles can be created on any storm that passes the notability guideline, provided they are reasonably well-written, comprehensive, and generally have several paragraphs of information on it in the body of the article. Articles may be merged by consensus, however.
• Hurricanes, typhoons etc should only receive a separate article if they are notable and long enough not to be considered a stub. If a storm isn't notable and/or there isn't enough to write about, the text can go inside the article for the season or country list.
• When creating a new article for an active storm when it may or may not be appropriate (i.e. a major hurricane currently threatening land), it is generally best to put a request up in the discussion for that hurricane season (e.g. Talk:2017 Atlantic hurricane season) and discuss it with others. However, we would also encourage you to be bold and make the article if you think it is notable or is very likely to become notable within 72 hours.

Cheers. Drdpw (talk) 01:06, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

User:Knowledgekid87 - I am also puzzled about your edit summary in your redirect of Hurricane Danielle. You wrote: Redirected page, not notable enough for a stand alone article, I recommend working on it as a draft more first. Do you mean that you think it is not notable, or that you think that it needs to be expanded before being ready for a stand-alone article? What should be done in draft, and when should it be resubmitted? Please explain. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:15, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

After thinking this over, I take back my previous comment. Danielle is just as notable as Colin or Earl. State of emergency issued in Portugal, and legitimately all of a town was damaged. Danielle is notable, making landfall in an area not prone to storms. This redirect should be undone. Hurricane Chandler (talk) 01:36, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

And so now every named storm except 1 has an article...😯 Sarrail (talk) 01:42, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I'll also take back my previous comment. Floods and mudslides, state of emergency, 644 accidents, landfall in Portugal? 8 times in 3 months. If there are enough reliable sources and the article meets WP:GNG and WP:NOTABILITY guidelines, then Danielle can certainly have an article. Sarrail (talk) 01:48, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

When I originally made the article, I did have many references and every think I stated was backed up, but since then, I have found a few more. We could have a Hurricane Earl situation where we fix the references and add some as well. Hurricane Chandler (talk) 01:55, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I have restored the last full version of the article, reverting the redirection. I will comment that if we can't reach a local consensus here as to whether to have a stand-alone article, then AFD is the way to resolve the disagreement. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:58, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: I have placed the article up for AfD - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:00, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

There are sources there. No more are needed. Hurricane Chandler (talk) 20:26, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The article does need more sourced content not copied from this article and greater depth overall to stand on its own. Drdpw (talk) 21:59, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I added a few more references, and secondary references. I also tried to add a bit of in depth information. You can check over it again. Hurricane Chandler (talk) 00:15, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I have found many more sources, including the death of someone due to a heart attack after they were thrown into floodwaters. Hurricane Chandler (talk) 16:48, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2022

Requesting to edit the Strongest Storm section under the season summary map and change Hurricane Fiona to Hurricane Ian. Penguino011 (talk) 15:23, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Hurricane Fiona is stronger than Hurricane Ian in terms of barometric pressure. Sarrail (talk) 18:36, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

PTC 15 draft

Draft:Potential Tropical Cyclone Fifteen (2022) has been made. Mitch199811 (talk) 22:47, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Too soon; wait until it gains notability. Drdpw (talk) 23:01, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes I agree with Drdpw. It is to early. It hasn't even become a depression yet. Hurricane Chandler (talk) 12:34, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Redirect to Potential Tropical Cyclone Fifteen in 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season. Sarrail (talk) 13:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Generally speaking, drafts should not be created for PTCs. As in this case, where the disturbance is now a named storm, the draft title is (most often) quickly rendered obsolete and of little value as redirect search term. Drdpw (talk) 15:02, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Lisa draft

I was WP:BOLD and redirected Draft:Tropical Storm Lisa (2022) to the season article for now. Drdpw (talk) 16:22, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Will Lisa get an article if it makes landfall as a Hurricane (or even just landfall in general)? Mitch199811 (talk) 03:00, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

If landfall impacts are severe, it may, or even just before landfall, if it meets WP:GNG criteria. Sarrail (talk) 03:02, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Above average hurricane season?

We already have our 15th tropical cyclone already, so I am only asking if it is too soon to tell, or should I mention that it is widely expected to be an above average hurricane season? Williamwang363 (talk) 18:46, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

The problem with doing as you propose is that it would be both original research and inaccurate. Consider this: "Lisa’s formation comes almost two weeks after the average development date of the Atlantic’s 12th named storm of the year, October 11. This season’s activity now stands at 12 named storms, five hurricanes, and two major hurricanes, with an Accumulated Cyclone Energy index only 73% of average for the date. The 1991-2020 averages for October 31 are 13.4 named storms, 6.6 hurricanes, and three major hurricanes. So despite the catastrophic rampage of Hurricane Ian, the Atlantic as a whole is having a less active season than usual by most metrics." (Tropical Storm Lisa forms in the central Caribbean, Jeff Masters, Eye on the Storm, October 31, 2022.) Drdpw (talk) 19:02, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

One note, its not our fifteenth tropical cyclone. PTC4 screwed up some stuff pushing back the numbers. Therefore, even if we count 11 and 12, we have a decently average to below average season. Also, while I am not normally in the tropical storms field, I don't think 1 storm should be considered above average. Mitch199811 (talk) 03:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

The season is currently at the low end of near average activity, and it would take the most active November on record to push it above average. Mvhcmaniac (talk) 12:50, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Lisa article

I believe there should be an article on Tropical Storm Lisa as it is projected to strike Central America as a Category 1, and we hopefully all know that most hurricanes in Central America are deadly, like Nate, Eta, Iota, and Julia. I will link the draft once I begin it. CyclonicStormYutu (talk) 14:43, 1 November 2022 (UTC)