Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Socialism

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Listing of National Sections for Internationals

Bit of an odd one, but it's come up a couple of times in attempts to improve articles between myself and @Wellington Bay. Basically on a few articles on Internationals both current and historical we list a breakdown of supposed national sections based off of the group's own website (Revolutionary Communist International, International Socialist Alternative, Committee for a Workers' International as examples).

The issue is effectively differing views of where we fall when it comes to WP:OR, WP:ABOUTSELF, and WP:V. I myself believe that using the group's website as the sole source is a problem (because they have a interest in seeming as active as possible and therefore it is in their interest to stretch the truth as to whether sections still fundamentally exist) and had attempted to try and make it work by only listing sections whose own websites showed "recent" activity. @Wellington Bay is not happy with this, viewing it as breaching WP:OR, a view that I myself can see merit in even if I believe that it is preferable to not list sections that can't be shown to be active than list them when the only source claiming they're active is the international.

As an example of the issue while the International Socialist Alternative website currently lists an "ISA Australia" section[1], this group has in fact disaffiliated[2].

As a compromise it has been suggested by both myself and another user (@Golightlys) have put forward the concept of essentially only listing in full the sections that are notable (i.e. have their own articles) and just merely making mention that the group claims to have a number of national sections, but as per singular discussion with @Wellington Bay I am taking it here to get further views from others.

As an example, under the suggested compromise, the "sections" section on the article for International Socialist Alternative would look like this:

The ISA website maintains a list of claimed national sections, notable sections include:

Section	Name
Hong Kong	社會主義行動 Sewuizyuji Haangdung (Socialist Action)
Nigeria	Movement for a Socialist Alternative
South Africa	Workers and Socialist Party (WASP)
United States	Socialist Alternative

Rambling Rambler (talk) 16:21, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Speaking from personal experience, far more socialist orgs exist on social media and self published websites than in real life.

Imo, if there are no secondary sources that support the existence of a national section, then I don't think it should be included. The primary source could be used to find a list of potential factions, but each faction should be shown to exist by a secondary source. WP:OR, WP:ABOUTSELF, and WP:V all give good arguments for not relying on sources like the one published by ISA.

That probably lines up with what you and Golightlys have put forward; only including sections with their own articles as a rule-of-thumb.

FropFrop (talk) 17:26, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

All I would add is where possible make the connection in prose (as well as the table), as has been done in e.g. the CWI history subsection, or the ISA Rosa subsection Golightlys (talk) 02:07, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

1) There should be a notice of this discussion on the talk pages of articles that may be affected. 2) A number of articles for sections of an international political group redirect to the page of the international in question. Accordingly there should be some mention of that group on the page in question. The simplest way to do that is with a list of member organizations of that international even if the member organization is not notable enough for an article of its own. Wellington Bay (talk) 21:14, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

On the issue of redirects, if it was a more abstract redirect I'd probably agree. However here, even if not explicitly mentioned, it's pretty obvious what the redirect is about if you're discussing the International proper. i.e. if someone searched Wikipedia for the national Trotskyist group "Socialist Alternative (England, Wales, & Scotland)" and it took you to "International Socialist Alternative" it's pretty easy to infer the connection. Rambling Rambler (talk) 22:56, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Also the redirects probably need cleansing too in any case given some of those sections don't appear present now already (because of disaffiliation post-redirect creation for example) so there's already no inherent link between redirects and coverage as it stands. Rambling Rambler (talk) 22:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

WikiProject Housing and Tenant Rights is live!

Hello! I've set up a new WikiProject, Housing and Tenant Rights :)

I'm adding a message here since it could be of interest to your group.

If you are please feel free to add your name to the page, we already have a couple who have joined. The main focus will be covering tenant strikes, tenants unions, tenants rights, and more. Documenting the history of land ownership and tenant advocacy. Thanks! - LoomCreek (talk) 02:36, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

David Lammy

There is a current RFC at Talk:David Lammy#RfC: First sentence which is discussing how the subject should be described. Editors are invited to participate. TarnishedPath^talk 14:29, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Draft:Fred Magdoff

I recently created a draft for Fred Magdoff. Any help with expansion would be appreciated! Thriley (talk) 23:22, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:South Yemen#Requested move 24 October 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:South Yemen#Requested move 24 October 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Abo Yemen✉ 11:20, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Andrew Fisher

Andrew Fisher has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 12:49, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Vyacheslav Molotov

Vyacheslav Molotov has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 13:17, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Aneurin Bevan

Aneurin Bevan has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 16:31, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Statism in Shōwa Japan#Requested move 20 October 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Statism in Shōwa Japan#Requested move 20 October 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 16:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Valentin Pavlov

Valentin Pavlov has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 17:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion invite: length of Joseph Stalin article

Editors are invited to give comments on the legnth of the article Joseph Stalin. The discussion can be found at on the article's talk page. Z1720 (talk) 17:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)