Alexschneider250

April 2017

Hello, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. This is just a note to let you know that I've moved the draft that you were working on to Draft:Orbelyanovka, from its old location at User:Alexschneider250/sandbox/Orbelyanovka. This has been done because the Draft namespace is the preferred location for Articles for Creation submissions. Please feel free to continue to work on it there. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to ask me on my talk page. Thank you. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:08, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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AfC notification: Draft:Orbelyanovka has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Orbelyanovka. Thanks! Legacypac (talk) 16:09, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Orbelyanovka has been accepted

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Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 20:15, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Philipp Dreher has been accepted

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Rusalkii (talk) 05:32, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Prikumskoe has been accepted

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Rusalkii (talk) 22:04, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

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Feedback

Hi, I would appreciate any feedback on this draft if you have time. Thanks. Mellk (talk) 05:17, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Also, do you know if there is a better way to translate "черкасы", also "отчич" and "дедич" into English in the context of the titles? Mellk (talk) 05:46, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

It looks like "Черкассы" is Circassia, although I'm not sure. I think somewhat more modern translation of "отчичь и дѣдичь и Наслѣдникъ и Государь и Обладатель" could be something like "Heir thereof both from Father and Grandfather, and Sovereign, and Possessor". But if you wish to be closer to the English bureaucratic style of that time, you could probably use one of these translations:

• "from father and grandfather Heirs, Lords and Conquerours" (Passages from the diary of General Patrick Gordon of Auchleuchries, p. 150)
• "from Father and Grandfather heir apparent Lord and Conqueror" (The institution, laws & ceremonies of the most noble Order of the Garter collected and digested into one body by Elias Ashmole, p. 230)
• "from Father and Grandfather, Heir, Successor, Lord and Ruler" (Memoranda Relating to the Family of Haldane of Gleaneagles, p. 28)

Alexschneider250 (talk) 09:52, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Looking at ru:Черкасы, it seems to have had a slightly different meaning, so probably I will just leave it for now. But the other translation is helpful, thank you. Mellk (talk) 16:03, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

@Mellk: The draft looks good. I would emphasize though, that Ivan IV and his predecessors were officially called "of all Russia", no matter what exactly of all Russia. In my opinion, the part "began to style himself as tsar" doesn't look nice, since this is a way to overstress the assumption that Ivan III was trying hard to make everybody believe he was a "tsar". In fact, we was called "tsar" by many rulers, including the king of Denmark who used "imperatore" to address Ivan III, which can be translated as "tsar", according to Carsten Pape (The title of Ivan III according to late-medieval Danish sources (In Russian), p. 69).

Some references lack details about the source, e.g. "О титуле Царском и о Государственной печати (1667)". Alexschneider250 (talk) 10:18, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, I will try to make some improvements. Mellk (talk) 16:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

I have moved the draft to mainspace. Initially I considered moving it to Tsar of Russia (which currently redirects to Tsar#Russia) but someone raised a good point that tsar is also often used to refer to the emperors so the redirect is probably the best option for now.

Also, the article Grand Duchy of Moscow currently puts the end date at 1547, probably because the title "grand prince of Moscow" is still used, but this refers to one principality and there are good sources that refer to the reign of Ivan III (or specifically the annexation of Novgorod) as the formation of a new centralized political unit (the centralized Russian state or Muscovite state). So, I am considering creating an article or at least a draft for now for this state between the late 15th century up to 1547. What are your thoughts? Thanks. Mellk (talk) 13:14, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, it sounds reasonable. If you create an article about that state, it should probably link to the corresponding article in Russian Wikipedia about the Russian State. However, it looks like it's about the period comprising both the Russian state founded by Ivan III and Russian Tsardom. So now I'm not really sure, what would be better - to create something similar or something more specific, i.e. related to the time period you mentioned (between the late 15th century up to 1547). Anyway, if I have time, I'll try to participate, at least in checking the references. Alexschneider250 (talk) 17:53, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I was wondering how to approach this since there is both ru:Русское государство and ru:Русское царство with significant overlap. For now, I think I will focus up to 1547. Grand Duchy of Moscow for example does not even include details about the reigns of Vasili III and Ivan IV. I do not think there would be enough support or interest to increase scope of Tsardom of Russia (which would also require a WP:RM). Thanks. Mellk (talk) 10:51, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Also I have created the article Sovereign of all Russia. There is maybe some early history still missing (more about the suffix "of all Rus"). Mellk (talk) 17:32, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Great, that's a much-needed article. I admire your productivity. I'll try to check it and think of possible improvements. Alexschneider250 (talk) 19:27, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

What about using sfn-template for citations? Is there any reason to avoid doing that, in your opinion? It looks like you are more into using ref-tags. Alexschneider250 (talk) 21:03, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

That is a good point. I think I was rushing with this. I will try to do this later and for the other article. Mellk (talk) 22:08, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

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