Talk:Wicklow

Moved from article to talk page

This is a matter for discussion and finding sources first. ww2censor 15:47, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

It is much more likely that the name Wicklow is a combination of the word Vik meaning inlet, common in many Nordic/Saxon place names, and the Nordic word Logi/Loge pronounced lawghi or lawghe, meaning flame or light. The old town coat-of arms for Wicklow town show a "lighthouse/tower& flame" which would indicate that the town in bygone years remembers its' ancient connection with the sea and a very likely old tradition of keeping a light burning to guide mariners safely in to port. The old Norse traders and warriors did not regard themselves as "Vikings". The term was often used to mean a person or persons acting against accepted norms of the day. It would be highly unlikely that such a trading community as Wicklow in the 10th century would call itself anything connected with the word "Viking". Even if that is what they were. originally posted by User:Oscardh (10:42, September 2, 2006) on article page

The basis for my alternative explanation of how Wicklow got its name can be put in three arguments.

1. The old Wicklow town coat of arms showing a blazing fire. If this fire/"light" has its background in an old seal/old documents showing the "flame" motif, then argument nr. 2 comes in to play. If the "flame/fire" motif is of a fairly new origin, then I have no case.

2. According to the book "Gammel norsk" (Old Norse/Norwegian) by Leif Hebbstad, the Norske Samlaget 1930, the word flame (lòge som brenn/loga) is Log. (Pronunciation not like the English log but like lawgh. Flame could also be Loggi (as lawghi) and a burning log of wood would be Logbrandr.

3. If Wicklow's name came into use after 1171 and/or after the Hiberno-Norse Ostmen had gone from the place, then it might well be likely that the scribes of the Middle Ages might have called Wicklow a name based on the Viking presence earlier. But if the name appeared when the Ostmen traders (and slavers) were in full swing, it would be highly unlikely that they themselves or the Wicklow clans with whom they had their trade (and occasional fights) would call themselves something to do with Vikings. Wicklow was - and in a way still is - a Vik. oscardh —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oscardh (talk • contribs) 13:33, September 20, 2006

Remember that this is an encyclopaedia and only verifiable information is to be included. If you have a source for this conjecture then it may be accepted but until you can produce some decent source your Wicklow naming arguments will stay as only arguments. Did you ever look up the well researched series by Liam Price "The Place-names of Co. Wicklow" for an Irish view on the name? That would be my first starting point but I don't have access to my copy nor will I in the near future. Maybe someone else can help. ww2censor 23:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

After Ww2censors reply I went to the Bray library and had a look at Liam Price book of place names. It states, quite correctly that the name in Norman times was judged to refer to the Viking presence in Wicklow town. But I find this very unlikely. The term "viking" was not something the vikings were very fond of. At the time of the first Norwegian, "Viking" king Harald Finehair the sagas state that he went west (at least as far as Man) to hunt down vikings that were disturbing the peace in his new, western kingdom. Unless the Ostmen of Wicklow were happy with being called bandits and robbers, and the name Wicklow goes back to before 1170, then I simply find it defies belief that the name of Wicklow town comes from "Viking+meadow". Oscardh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.149.27.59 (talk) 14:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

You may have your doubts about Liam Price but his is the only definitive work I know of on the subject of place names in County Wicklow. Find another verifiable sources to discuss the issue and we will be happy to work with it. ww2censor (talk) 14:53, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Copvio notice

I believe the copy vio notice placed on March 22 should be removed. I've been watching this article for a while and contributing occasionally. I'm virtually certain that the Town and country website lifted the content from Wikipedia and not the other way around. Is there any way to check this? Nelson50^T 12:04, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

That's what I said here too. ww2censor (talk) 14:50, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

You may both be right, but in matters legal it is sensible to err on the side of caution. I've written to the website owner seeking clarification. Pending a response, I'd suggest holding off on lifting the notice. I don't quite follow how the fact we've been watching the article for some time supports the notion that the website lifted the WP content and not vice versa - can you pls explain? There is no datestamp on the webpage, and there is content on that webpage which as far as I can see was never included in WP. If the website owner fails to respond wouldn't it be best to call on someone here with experience in these things for assistance? --Yumegusa (talk) 16:15, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Please see this and this. I think they show the development of this text by the Wikipedia community and not by the website owners. In fact one of them includes the addition of sources, although at the time I did not know how to do inline referencing. Also look at the Glendalough, Greystones and Avoca pages of the Town and country website and you'll see the same pattern of copying from Wikipedia. I suggest this is sufficient evidence to remove the copy vio tag. Beyond that I'm unsure what to do about the wb site, if anything. Nelson50^T 16:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Well done, pulling that together. That evidence appears to be conclusive, and I'll lift the copyvio forthwith. It's a reminder how tricky these things can be.--Yumegusa (talk) 17:13, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

East Breakwater

"The East Breakwater, arguably the most important building in the town"

I don't think it's a building. I live in Wicklow and have never heard of this, and can't find any real references to it online. I think it's referring to what we call the "old pier". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.53.135 (talk) 15:45, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Just My 2¢ Worth:

I have found a few mentions online, but it's not clear if they mean it's a building, a part of the harbor they shaped manually, or perhaps a lighthouse. I've been trying for about a week now to find out for an article I'm writing about Wicklow.

Here's an example of what is out there about East Breakwater, which is on the site of Conway Port, which seems to be in charge of running the same port in Wicklow:

"...the town had become a booming industry by then and Halpin was present during the construction of the all-important East Breakwater in 1880."

ObadiahKatz (talk) 04:47, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

References

Mannteach

I note that this book has been cited as the reference to the "Church of the toothless one". However, it is likely if not certain that this is a circular reference. I added this piece to the article pre 2007 (in addition to the newer piece on the uprising of 1641) and given that this nugget is something that will be familiar to anyone who went to primary school in the town and seems to lack historical references is it likely that a certain Camille DeAngelis (Moon Ireland, Avalon Travel, 2007, ISBN 1598800485, p111) would know about it? Bit of a conundrum.

Het Masteen (talk) 02:41, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified (January 2018)

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I have just modified 2 external links on Wicklow. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Magne Oftedal - swedish?

No, is not. He is a Norwegian professor of Celtic languages. Finn Bjørklid (talk) 21:45, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

I have rewritten the Norwegian article of Wicklow, and I believe some points are more precise. You may use Google Translate to compare. --Finn Bjørklid (talk) 12:11, 22 March 2023 (UTC)