Talk:List of Aston Villa F.C. players

Captains

During the FAC of this page User:Circeus has moved the List of Aston Villa captains over onto the the main list of Aston Villa F.C. players. I personally think it has become a duplication and that the captains could become integrated into the notable players section now. Although this will make the table very large, complicated and indeed overwhelming. Should page deletes be conducted unilaterally. Thoughts please. Thanks Woodym555 16:51, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Trust me, this did not by any definition make the list "very large" (see List of Chicago Landmarks), "complicated" (see List of United States Presidents by age) or "overwhelming" (see 2005 NFL Draft). Circeus 17:29, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure Circeus is doing his best to improve the article, he seems to have a lot of experience. Re the two lists, I think club captains are inherently 'notable players' and so the two lists could be integrated. --Malcolmxl5 17:43, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

How is / was the list of captains verified? Are, say, only players who captained the side for a full season or more included, or is it any player to have donned the armband? Oldelpaso 17:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

As it is, all the captain were already listed in the main list, but the color coding to mark them had severe accessibility issues, which is what prompted me to add the separate table, who had very little data not in the main players list anyway. the captains are a subset of the main list, which, I think, makes more sense in a section, but not distinct or numerous enough to warrant a separate article. Circeus 18:14, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it should even have its own list on this page. I know it may be a turnaround but i think the captains section should be integrated into the main list. I don't think that the colour coding has many accessibility issues. I think that a separate column should be made for the Captaincy dates and the "achievements" put in footnote form. I also think that i should probably move this discussion onto the talk page of the article concerned. Thanks Woodym555 18:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I think you need to be able to add in the honours they won as a captain also somehow! (Everlast1910 09:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC))

Color key

Okay, all the captains' table info is now in the main table. I would agree with Woodym that it is not necessary to keep the separate tables anymore. I'm thinking that we could rename "records" to "notes" and moves in there the "100 legends" notes, the Aston Villa HoF inductions and captainship highlights to remove the need for coloring entirely. what are your thoughts? Circeus 14:56, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the large strips of blue across the main list can go, although in the "notes section" (and i agree it should be notes, not records) i think some sort of colour coding would be useful to easily distinguish those who hold records. The captains section is oinly coloured if that person won something during his time as captain. I think the coloured highlights are useful when trying to distinguish between the notes. Otherwise it would just be an indiscriminate listing of notes. That is of course, just my opinion! How would you go about it? Would you put all of the notes including captains achievements in the list? ThanksWoodym555 15:26, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Name	Nationality	Position	Aston Villa career	Captaincy	Appearances	Goals	Notes
Walter H. Price	England	Defender	1874	1874-1876
Jack Devey	England	Forward	1891–1902	1891-1898	304	186
Jack Devey	England	Forward	1891–1902	1891-1898	304	186
Charlie Aitken	Scotland	Defender	1959–1976	1966-1973	660	16
Charlie Aitken	Scotland	Defender	1959–1976	1966-1973	660	16	AVHoF, Captain:

Notes

Using this example table.

• It is fine for Walter Price; he has only a record.
• For John Devey The first example looks okay, not uncomplicated, the information can easily be discerned. The dates should be aligned left though as the notes ruin the central alignment. But he isn't a Hall of Famer. The second example shows his "captains achievements in the notes section. How do we know it is related to captains?
• For players like Charlie Aitken it gets very complicated without colour coding. He is a captain who won things, a club record holder and a hall of famer. His notes looks complicated in my opinion in the second example. Woodym555 15:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Woodym's comments personally! (Everlast1910 17:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC))

Maybe add colours for current players still playing and a colour for Barry as being current club captain? (Everlast1910 20:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC))

I think Barry being current club captain is self evident by the "-" in his Captaincy column. If anyone wanted to find that he is current club captain all they have to do is click the sort button. Again with current players: the - show that. It would possibly be a case of WP:RECENT as well as in two years will we care who was still playing in 2007? We have to avoid complicating it with colours. That is what i did earlier on and the table looked confusing and complicated. Woodym555 21:06, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Okay fair enough! Accept all your points, so how far we off this being FL? (Everlast1910 21:53, 5 August 2007 (UTC))

Name of Article

Should it be changed to list of Notable Aston Villa F.C. players? Just a thought! Everlast1910 | Talk 00:29, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Given that only notable players are listed here and that most players are not, yes i think it should be changed as and when you can. Woodym555 18:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. "List of notable..." implies that all other Villa players are non-notable, which is patently untrue. If the lead states the criteria for inclusion, then List of Aston Villa F.C. players is fine, c.f. the existing featured lists for Arsenal, Liverpool and Manchester United. Oldelpaso 20:57, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I did see that they were called List of... . I don't think that there is a guideline but yes i do believe that some people may erroneously consider all other players inferior. I do believe that was Queen Victoria's worry for the Victoria Cross, that all others wern't brave. To avoid the complications of moving the FLC as well i suggest, (doing a U-turn here) that it should indeed be List of again. Given the fact that the norm is for it to be named List of, should it go in the uncontroversial proposals on the WP:RM page. That is the question. Woodym555 21:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I've been bold and moved it back. Oldelpaso 21:26, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

List them ALL, or change the name of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.2.173 (talk) 20:19, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria

What are the criteria for including a player in this list? - PeeJay 17:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Generally it is playing more than 100125 competitive, first team games for Aston Villa. Special exceptions are made for early players (19th century) because of the difference in number of games. Some people with special playing records such as top goalscorer are included though. Generally these players have played over 100 games so are included anyway. The intro at the top of the page should explain all of this . Hope my explanation helps. Woodym555 17:45, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Everlast¹⁹¹⁰ 15:01, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

As this is a featured list, I consider that every player listed who has NOT reached the 125 appearances criteria should have the reason for their inclusion explained - for example, why is Tom Griffiths included with only 67 appearances? His bio doesn't indicate anything exceptional. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 22:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

He was a club captain. All club captains are included in this list, though it does need a bit of updating which is on my to do list. Regards, Woody (talk) 23:01, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

So its ok to add Martin Laursen, right? I wasnt sure about that, and I was trying to think of some good reason to add him to this list haha. If he shouldnt be there though, feel free to remove him. EDIT - Also, I got the appearances and goals data from the Villa website, but they dont match the figures on his wiki page. Again, if I've got that wrong, feel free to correct it. Methodicmadness (talk) 13:05, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned references in this article

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of this article's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "OffHist7488":

• From History of Aston Villa F.C. (1874–1961): "Villa History 1874–1887". AVFC.co.uk. Retrieved 2007-06-26.
• From Aston Villa F.C.: "Villa History 1874–1887". Aston Villa F.C. Archived from the original on 2007-10-29. Retrieved 2008-09-15.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 06:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

References

The list is poorly sourced, it is unclear where the numbers come from Sandman888 (talk) 16:02, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of Arsenal F.C. players which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 13:00, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

This page has been neglected...

The stats on this page and featured players are a few years out of date, quite a few players with over 100 first class appearances from recent time are not listed. Please contribute if you can.

From brief research the following should be added, there are likely more:

Stephen Warnock

Mountaincirque (talk) 13:45, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm going through and adding these when I have time Mountain^cirque 15:52, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

I have now added, Dunne, Hitzlsperger and James Collins (1983). I will add Warnock and any more recent ones soon. Mountain^cirque 21:53, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

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