Talk:Leefe Robinson

Surname

I'm not sure we've resolved the confusion about his name - does it have a hyphen or doesn't it? Was Leefe-Robinson his surname, or was Leefe a forename? If the punctuation in his letter recently added is accurate it suggests the former. PatGallacher (talk) 12:57, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The Dictionary of National Biography, Who's Who, The Times all have Leefe as a forename. By the look of things, and somewhat more definitive, is the fact there is no hyphen on his grave stone. The memorial to him as a V.C. winner at my old school certianly didn't have a hyphen either. I'd put the quoted letter down to mistaken editing on the part of the original publisher of the cited book. --Harlsbottom (talk) 13:04, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Doing a search, most sources have his name without a hyphen. However I was slightly disconcerted to find a source (http://ignca.nic.in/nl_01302.htm) which mentions a person "Ruth Leefe Robinson". Can we be sure that the unhyphenated Leefe Robinson isn't a surname? You can get people with unhyphenated double-barrelled surnames, the best known is Helena Bonham Carter, her name often confuses people, you often see references to Helena Bonham-Carter or Ms/Miss Carter. PatGallacher (talk) 13:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

His mother was named Leefe, and all written records above treat it as a forename. Leefe Robinson as a double barrelled surname does seem to have existed elsewhere and earlier. --Harlsbottom (talk) 13:32, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

From Oxford Dictionary of National Biography - "Robinson, William Leefe (1895–1918), airman, was born at Kaima Betta, South Coorg, India, on 14 July 1895, youngest son of Horace Robinson (d. 1929), an owner and planter of coffee estates, and his wife, Elizabeth Leefe (d. 1929). That would suggest that they combined their names upon marrying. I don't have a subscription to one of the ancestry websites, but if anyone does, search for Horaces' or Elizabeth's death certificate and see what the name at death was, assuming they died in the UK, of course. Snapper five (talk) 14:12, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

When Robinson became a prisoner of war in 1917 he wrote a letter to his sister whose name was given as Miss Robinson. At his funeral every member of his family was listed "Robinson". --Harlsbottom (talk) 13:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

The article mentioned above (http://ignca.nic.in/nl_01302.htm) makes reference to Ruth being the daughter of a coffee planter in India. Williams's parents were also coffee planters in India and it was around the same time, so this would add weight to the surname being Leefe Robinson arguement. Ruth could be the sister refered to in the letter he wrote whilst a POW. Snapper five (talk) 21:28, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

It would seem that Robinson's siblings were all named Leefe Robinson. The sister he wrote to was presumably Katherine, whose wedding Robinson attended in London not long before he was captured. It's very debatable whether retaining his mother's maiden name counts as a surname though. Most sources I've seen refer to him as W.L. Robinson. My school thinks so as that is how his name is represented on the V.C.s memorial.--Harlsbottom (talk) 21:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Final Rank

I have found one reference to Leefe Robinson being promoted to Captain, after winning the VC and before he went back to France, in a book about RAF Hornchurch. Can anyone substantiate that? Most references are merely to his rank at the time of winning the VC. In any case, as the RAF came into being on 1/4/18, his final rank would have been either Flying Officer or Flight Lieutenant. Snapper five (talk) 19:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Robinson was a Captain when he died. The new ranks for the Royal Air Force weren't introduced until 3 August, 1919 so Captain is correct. --Harlsbottom (talk) 13:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

VC in UK

I think some sources do say he was the first to be awarded the VC for action in the UK. There may have been airmen awarded it before, but this was probably for action over the Western Front. PatGallacher (talk) 22:16, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Harrow Weald restaurant/pub

Returning to the reference given - http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/s/12/12053/Leefe_Robinson_VC/Harrow_Weald the restaurant/pub closed in 2009 and was taken over by Miller and Carter. There is no reference to its former name The Leefe Robinson VC on their web site http://www.millerandcarter.co.uk/millerandcarterharrow/findus/ . I removed the reference. --User:Brenont (talk) 02:14, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

I found a reference to the name being reinstated http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/whereilive/northwest/harrow/4105628.Historic_pub_name_restored_after_complaints/--User:Brenont (talk) 03:04, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Surname revisited/move suggestion

His surname was last discussed in 2008 (above). Although nobody seems to have been 100% certain, the consensus seems to have been that his birth surname was Robinson, with Leefe (his mother's surname) as a second forename; but that he (and possibly others in his family?) frequently used Leefe Robinson as an unhyphenated double-barrelled surname. His friends and family presumably called him William; but others would have called him either Lt Robinson or Lt Leefe Robinson. I can accept that, and it seems to be supported by the external sources I've looked at. The article currently mostly refers to him as "Robinson".

However, if Leefe Robinson is indeed simply one version of his surname, shouldn't the article title be changed to William Leefe Robinson? I'm quite aware of WP:COMMONNAME, but we wouldn't normally title an article on a modern individual, outside the entertainment industries, by surname only. GrindtXX (talk) 21:32, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

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