Talk:Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)

Casualties & damage section

This section is very outdated, for one I suggest changing As of 2 May 2024, Lebanon's Ministry of Public Health reported that 1,359 people had been wounded to something along the lines of As of December 2024, Lebanon's Ministry of Public Health reported that around 4.000 people had been killed and 16.500 wounded As well as changing the tiny things like 88 Lebanese civilians have been killed including 39 women and children. for the Israeli side I suggest changing Forty-five Israeli civilians,[489] 28 soldiers and one security officer were killed in Hezbollah's attacks on Israel. to Forty-five Israeli civilians,[489] 79 security forces were killed in Hezbollah's attacks on Israel and Israel's subsequent invasion of lebanon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Napoleon583 (talk • contribs) 01:51, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

References

Proposal to restrict scope of this article

In the above discussion, I think there seems to be consensus that Oct 2023 - Sep 2024 marked a low-level phase of the conflict, and that no one called this low-level phase as "war", but now we've entered a much more intense phase of the conflict. So I propose that the scope of this article ends sometime in Sep 2024 and details about events in Oct 2024 go into 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon or a different article, but not this one. Pinging (Personisinsterest—The Great Mule of Eupatoria—Dilbaggg—ElijahPepe—estar8806—Mr rnddude—Lightspecs).VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:39, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, the ongoing RM wants a move to I Hez war. If that goes through, then it will be like the I Hamas set up (war + invasion) which, yea, does invite duplication. Selfstudier (talk) 18:01, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

@Selfstudier It sounds like you oppose the RM, its best you make your opinions known in the RM. Suppose the RM doesn't go through - would you agree with the above proposal I made? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 19:59, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I would just set about making the invasion article the main going forward and take whatever from here as background. Selfstudier (talk) 21:32, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

I support this proposal, there is a distinct phase where it was a conflict and one where it became a war The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 03:54, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I too support this proposal, in-line with my !vote in the move proposal. Mr rnddude (talk) 10:56, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

I note that merging the content into 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon would minimize the events that preceded the invasion; namely, the pager and walkie-talkie explosions, Israel's strikes against Lebanon (חיצי הצפון), and Hassan Nasrallah's assassination. Nasrallah stated that the pager explosions were "a declaration of war", and I'm inclined to believe that began the war against Hezbollah. However, it did not begin the invasion, which officially started on October 1 after brief incursions into Lebanon. I would normally support merging into the invasion article, but there is a degree of separation between the invasion and the war that suggests it is possible to maintain both concurrently, with information about the invasion being minimized in the article about the war. The invasion article, for instance, covers information about the "United States' waning influence" and "Personal motivations of Netanyahu" that is exclusive to the invasion. Thomas Friedman, for one, wrote an article about the anniversary of the October 7 attacks that contains mentions to the "Hamas-Hezbollah-Iran-Israel war"—as much as that framing is comically yet intentionally inaccurate—but omits information about Israel's invasion, which is largely not relevant to his points. As much as I question why an analysis section is relevant in an article about a highly contentious topic, if editors seek to include that information, they would be limited to articles specifically about the incursion. In addition, there is an impact to the aforementioned precursory events through Lebanese displacement, which is an article at Lebanese displacement during the Israel–Hezbollah conflict. An estimated 90,000 people left Lebanon following September 23, when חיצי הצפון (or Northern Arrows) began. In an article about the war, which presumably began on September 17, I would expect to see information about this displacement. Merging the content into the invasion article conflicts with that expectation. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)

@ElijahPepe what if merged that content into the invasion article, but rescoped that article to start mid-Sep (and moved it to a more appropriate name)? Alternatively, we can merge the info to a different article about the war.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 16:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Options

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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The above RM was unsuccessful, meaning this article won't be moved to "war", leaving us with following options that I've tried to illustrate in a table.

Option	Oct 8, 2023 — Sep 16, 2024	Sep 16, 2024 — Sep 30, 2024	Oct 1, 2024 — present	Notes
1a	Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)	2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon
1b	Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)	2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon —> 2024 Lebanon war "Third Lebanon war"		Same as option 1a, but requires a RM at 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon
2	Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)		2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon
3	Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)	"September 2024 Lebanon escalation"	2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon	A new article is created to cover the events from Sep 16—Sep 30.
4	Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)	2024 Lebanon war		Create a new parent article, possibly called "Third Lebanon war" that covers events Sep 16—present.
			2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon

I prefer options 1a, 1b or 2 as I think they are the simplest. I oppose option 4, because it requires maintaining two articles in parallel (almost a WP:CFORK). Pinging ( Selfstudier—The Great Mule of Eupatoria—ElijahPepe—Mr rnddude) VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:16, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

2 articles is better than 3, and the invasion was 1 October, so Option 2 for me. Selfstudier (talk) 17:39, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

2. Having 1a or 1b would mean the infobox about the invasion of Lebanon would mismatch with article contents. Bitspectator ⛩️ 17:41, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I strongly opposed using "Third Lebanon war", which matches Israel's terminology about the second and first wars. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 20:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

2. I agree with Bitspectator that there would be a mismatch between the conflict and invasion articles with 1a and 1b and additionally that 1b leans too much to favouring a specific perspective on the conflict. Mr rnddude (talk) 22:19, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I’d lean towards 1b but with the title “2024 Lebanon war” The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 17:47, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

@Bitspectator@ElijahPepe@Mr rnddude@Selfstudier, what do you think of The Great Mule of Eupatoria's proposal? I've changed the title in the table accordingly.

Alternatively, @The Great Mule of Eupatoria would you also be ok with #2? VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 22:59, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I oppose it. The invasion is notable, as is the war, but it didn't begin with the pager attacks. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:01, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm OK with invasion atm, this can cover "war" for now. Selfstudier (talk) 08:22, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per Elijah. Bitspectator ⛩️ 17:28, 25 October 2024 (UTC)

@The Great Mule of Eupatoria are you ok with option #2? Are there any strong arguments opposed to it? Otherwise it seems we have WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS for that.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 15:31, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I’m more inclined to option 1b, but I have no arguments against option 2 and still think it would be a good option The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 15:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

We seem to have consensus for option#2 above. This means, I'll go ahead and implement:

• change the ending date in the infobox and lead to Sep 30, 2024, making it clear that the end of this conflict marked the beginning of the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
• Move this article to Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–2024).
• Leave a notice at the end of this talk page, urging users to put post-Oct 1 events at 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 12:34, 31 October 2024 (UTC)

Chomik1129 the above is the discussion for the scope of the article. You're welcome to give your opinions.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:38, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Cross-border aerial attacks and shelling between Israel and Hezbollah have been a major part of the conflict, and escalated since October 1. It wouldn't make sense for an article about the entire conflict since October 1 to be titled '2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon', since the invasion was just a small part of the conflict, limited to only a few kilometers from the border with the scope of destroying Hezbollah's infrastructure. I think a better name for an article that covers hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah since October 1 would be something along the lines of '2024 Israel–Hezbollah war', since this would make it clear that its scope includes all of the fighting between the two, and not just a single part of it. Or, cross-border attacks by Hezbollah and attacks in Syria could be included in Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) and 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon only covers the invasion and bombing of Lebanon. Chomik! (talk?) 19:57, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

@Chomik1129, I'm open to renaming 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon to 2024 Lebanon war (see option 1b above), once the scope is agreed upon. But I would strongly oppose "cross-border attacks by Hezbollah and attacks in Syria could be included in Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) and 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon only covers the invasion and bombing of Lebanon." The reason is that RS don't separate Hezbollah attacks and Israeli attacks during the same time period as different topics. Post-Oct 1, the Israeli bombings, Israeli ground operations, Hezbollah rocketfire, shelling by both sides are all part of the same war and should be covered in a single (not multiple) articles. On a side note, it is also more difficult to maintain multiple articles.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 18:00, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 November 2024

Source [76] nowhere supports the number of 1.4 Mio. displaced but 110,099 in Lebanon.

In northern Israel, the ongoing conflict has forced approximately 96,000 individuals to leave their homes,[75][70] while in Lebanon, over 1.4 million individuals have been displaced,[76]

Should at least be:

In northern Israel, the ongoing conflict has forced approximately 96,000 individuals to leave their homes,[75][70] while in Lebanon, over 110,000 individuals have been displaced,[76]

Further, official sources talk about 102'000 displaced people in Lebanon: https://www.intersos.org/en/conflict-in-south-lebanon/ thereby referring to IOM UN Displacement Tracking Matrix https://dtm.iom.int/reports/lebanon-mobility-snapshot-round-41-08-08-2024 Barthelmes (talk) 17:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Barthelmes, the 1.4 million figure also appears in a number of sources, for example here. I'm not sure what to make of it. Let's mention both figures for now. Alaexis_¿question? 21:54, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually the latest IOM report says that there are 842k IDPs [1], so the discrepancy is not so large. Alaexis_¿question? 21:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Even 550'000 people is an enormous discrepancy. But this is irrelevant to guidelines of correct quotation. A source is quoted and should be quoted correctly. At the time it was retrieved the number was 102'000 displaced. It is discrediting wikipedia as source to randomly assign quotes to numbers. If current quote is kept, it should be 102 thousand. If new quote is used, it has to state time of retrieval and quote the accurate number as of time of retrieval. The 1.4 mio is made up or comes from completely other source. Barthelmes (talk) 13:44, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The figure of 102,000 displaced people mentioned by User:Barthelmes is from an from intersos.org page which references the IOM UN Migration tracking matrix. As can be seen from the linked page the figure of 102,523 was accurate as of 6 August 2024. There have been further updates since, during which time the conflict escalated, and this figure is now out-of-date so will not be used to replace current information in the lead. Richard Nevell (talk) 19:53, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah's war crimes should come first

As Hezbollah not only was the first to violate and escalate this conflict and the first to commit war crimes, but also commits them in higher quantity and explicitly admitted them, it should come BEFORE israeli war crimes.

This will contribute to improving the impartiality of wikipedia, which had reached rock bottom over time, due to rising and blatant political bias, especially regarding israel-palestine, etc. Hen.machiavelli (talk) 12:45, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree Napoleon583 (talk) 01:35, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Buildings vehicles and "agricultural sites" in casualties section?

I don't think this should go to casualties and loss section, especially not just about one side, no matter which one. I will move this here for discussion.Tritomex (talk) 21:48, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

I didn't understand it either, I was surprised when I saw this and it makes the infobox very cluttered, I can delete them. Vbbanaz05 (talk) 08:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 November 2024

The Associated Press and other sources such as ABC News have just reported that a ceasefire deal has been negotiated between Israel and Hezbollah. JordanJa🎮es92🐱9 22:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 27 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close. Non EC editors may only make edit requests per WP:ARBECR (closed by non-admin page mover) Selfstudier (talk) 12:43, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

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Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → 2024 Lebanon war – The war is called such by all sources such as BBC, CNN, Al Monitor, etc. I would’ve included the sources but I wanted to avoid elongating this request, simply search them up on google. And regarding the 1-year of conflict preceding the escalation to a full-scale war since september 23, I think we could either split it into an article called the “Prelude to the 2024 Lebanon war” or perhaps “Israel-Hezbollah clashes (2023–2024)”, or we could simply write in the info box of the war that the period from october 7, 2023 to september 23, 2024 was a period of low level clashes, and the period from september 23, 2024 until present (or november 27 considering the ceasefire) was the main phase of the war. Almost 4000 died in total and most of them since September 23’s beginning of escalation, this was no “conflict” and all serious news sources agree. 78.182.130.19 (talk) 12:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). 78.182.130.19 (talk) 12:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 27 November 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bobby Cohn (talk) 14:03, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

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Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → 2024 Lebanon war – Requesting on behalf of an IP editor. Rationale: The war is called such by all sources such as BBC, CNN, Al Monitor, etc. I would’ve included the sources but I wanted to avoid elongating this request, simply search them up on google. And regarding the 1-year of conflict preceding the escalation to a full-scale war since september 23, I think we could either split it into an article called the “Prelude to the 2024 Lebanon war” or perhaps “Israel-Hezbollah clashes (2023–2024)”, or we could simply write in the info box of the war that the period from october 7, 2023 to september 23, 2024 was a period of low level clashes, and the period from september 23, 2024 until present (or november 27 considering the ceasefire) was the main phase of the war. Almost 4000 died in total and most of them since September 23’s beginning of escalation, this was no “conflict” and all serious news sources agree. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk • contribs) 12:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose This is article about the conflict ongoing since October 2023, not escalation of September-October 2024. 2024 Lebanon War should a redirect of 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon or a possible article about September-October escalation. RealStranger43286 (talk) 13:12, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose There was a recent discussion #Proposal to restrict scope of this article about limiting the scope of this article in view of the existence of the invasion article. In any event there is now a cessation of hostilities so all somewhat academic. Selfstudier (talk) 13:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose as per the consensus referenced by Selfstudier above.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 17:39, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Support making distinct pages for the conflict and the war. There is a clear phase where one ends and the other begins The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 06:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

As I see it, the "war" is the 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon (now subject of a cessation of hostilities). Selfstudier (talk) 09:37, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

I would either say the invasion like you suggested, or the pager ambush combined with the intensified airstrikes preceding the invasion The Great Mule of Eupatoria (talk) 13:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose The conflict started in 2023. The 2024 incursions are already their own article. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 17:39, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose but this same discussion should take place in 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. Yeoutie (talk) 01:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Result

In the result, there's a need to add the agreement of Hezbollah to withdraw back to the litani river. And that Hezbollah ended up disassociating from gaza front, which was their main objective. Yitzhak1029 (talk) 00:38, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes. Hezbollah willing to stop the fighting regardless of Israel still fighting Hamas in Gaza is the main thing. since the first day of fighting they said nothing will make them stop unless israel stops fighting gaza and here they gave up this cause. 147.235.60.178 (talk) 07:35, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree, the main objective of Hezbollah since October 8, 2023 was to pressure Israel into accepting a ceasfire in Gaza before any talks about a ceasefire in Lebanon. This was also the main point Nasrallah made in his last speech, and reiterated by Naim Qassem's first speech as a secertary general. This should count as a strategic victory for Israel as it isolates Hamas in the war. However, it is also worth noting that Israel added several new goals for the war such as disarming Hezbollah's military capabilities. Now since there is a ceasefire in effect which in theory states that Hezbollah must disintegrate their military infrastructure towards the border. If this does not prevent Hezbollah from rearming, and if they manage to return to pre-oct 8 status, then this should count as a victory for Hezbollah.

I also propose adding in the result section that Israel managed to prevent Hezbollah from launching a long planned invasion to conquer the Gallile. There are several documentations regarding the 20 year plan devised by Imad Mughniyeh and Ibrahim Aqil, and it was formally announced by former Hezbollah leader Nasrallah during a televised speech in 2011. 77.246.75.108 (talk) 11:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

That's not true. The prime minister of Israel never said he wants to "Disarm" Hezbollah and it was never one of the goals. it was said by a couple of ministers in haphazard way. 147.235.60.178 (talk) 12:36, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

We should therefore include credible sources for any future claims. Farid7427 (talk) 16:03, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

its up to him to bring the source to his claim that it was a war goal made by the war cabinet. Yitzhak1029 (talk) 13:45, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I think Hezbollah victory, probably. The IDF essentially surrendered and ran away and Hezbollah's stated goal was to survive, which they did. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 01:38, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Disagree. Hezbollah always public ally linked its current round of attacks on Israel to the Gaza fighting and Nasrallah repeatedly stated that he would not stop until there was a cease fire in Gaza. Nasrallah was killed, and Hezbollah has now agreed to a cease fire while Israel continues to fight Hamas in Gaza. 72.229.54.99 (talk) 04:00, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

No attacking power starts an unprovoked war with the goal of surviving(Vatican will start a war with usa, after a day agree to ceasefire, and now they are proclaimed winners by those standards?)

Your comment is illogical from the root.

They attacked to force a ceasefire in gaza, and make israeli settlers not return, both goals were stated by nasrallah and qasam.

And both goals they failed.

Hezbollah have not achieve any of their goals that were stated by their leaders at the start of the war and onwards. Yitzhak1029 (talk) 13:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 November 2024

Certain outcomes should be more added to this PAGE

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-11-27/ty-article/.premium/israel-achieved-only-a-partial-victory-against-hezbollah/00000193-6e01-d334-a1f3-ee97b9540000 AMOS HAREL

Declare the RESULT CEASEFIRE = Israeli partial victory (Militarily)- rightly so since its been a limited ground invasion.

Also FORGOT TO ADD to the list REUTERS Hezbollah extremely weak politically and military - One US SOURCE.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/27/world/middleeast/hezbollah-israel-ceasefire.html A battered and diminished Hezbollah accepts a cease fire 91.216.55.150 (talk) 13:28, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

How is it an Israeli victory when they ran away and when Hezbollah succeed in its goal (to survive) Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 01:38, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

It's an Israeli victory

Victory=achieving war aims while preventing the enemy to achieve its own war aims

Israel war aims: force Hezbullah out of the conflict, allow the northern residents to return to their homes. Hezbullah's destruction was never a war aim.

Hezbullah war aims: force Israel to sign a truce with Hamas and end its operations on Gaza.

Outcome: Hezbullah signs a separate truce with Israel which allows the residents of northern Israel to return home. War in Gaza continued undisturbed.

Therefore: Israel achieved all it's war aims while Hezbullah fails to force Israel to end its war in Gaza. Thus, objectively it's an Israeli victory. Yg0r (talk) 15:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Israel may have succeeded in two things:

1. Separating the Lebanese front from Gaza front (Strategic victory)

2. Destroying the conquest of Galille plan which Hezbollah had planned for over 20 years

However, Israel Katz officially stated that a new goal for the war was the disarmament of Hezbollah's armed forces. In theory, the ceasefire terms should do that, but it is unlikely Hezbollah will comply. Therefore, Hezbollah's armed forces survival counts as a victory for Hezbollah. Farid7427 (talk) 16:01, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Israel Katz stated that in a press conference but it was never officially a war aim approved by the government. It was a single statement which was contradicted by the media which showed the government and war cabinet never approved it. So it was not an official war aim. Yg0r (talk) 16:43, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

israeli/hezbollah ceasefire

Has anyone added anything about the ceasefire which from what i have read Hezbollah have broken twice since 4am?

This is the second incident:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-it-struck-hezbollah-rocket-launcher-in-southern-lebanon-after-spotting-activity/

Surely these breaches should be added to the page? Finkyspinky (talk) 16:05, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Infobox casualties

Sorry but "three [anonymous] sources familiar with Hezbollah" according to the Times of Israel do not equate to an official Hezbollah claim or estimate. This is very poor. The last figure Hezbollah provided, which I believe was a week or so ago, was 521 (519 strictly speaking). As of now, the Lebanese government claims 3,800 people (combatants and civilians) were killed since October 2023. Name me a single Israeli war in which the vast majority of casualties were not civilians? Either way, whether Hezbollah's figure is accurate or not, the "4,000" figure is NOT official and should be deleted. 2A01:4B00:AB15:E900:F403:D489:E64D:D279 (talk) 16:11, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

According to Naim Qassem recent speech (not the one today), there are 5000 dead/injured fighters from Hezbollah. There have been OSINT accounts on twitter that used poster images of dead Hezbollah fighters posted by their relatives on twitter and Facebook. They claim to have verified at least 1800 killed. Farid7427 (talk) 21:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, as always there are always a lot more injured in overall casualty counts than killed. 152.37.101.127 (talk) 12:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

We have the Reuters article which says that One source said the Iran-backed group may have lost up to 4,000 people. It's a RS but they are not 100% certain about it. Still, this is what we have for now, hopefully we'll have more clarity in future. Alaexis_¿question? 21:15, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Does this source have a name? Because we also have "Health Minister Firass Abiad told AFP on Wednesday more than 2,600 people, mostly civilians, have been killed since Israel launched intense air strikes on Lebanon more than a month ago."[2] We shouldn't engage in speculation, but rather rely on official sources or academics who study the data, or investigative journalists.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 21:22, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

You can list it as a Reuters estimate (according to a source), but you can't credit it to Hezbollah, as it's not a Hezbollah claim. 152.37.101.127 (talk) 12:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Infobox Lebanese displaced

The numbers for IDPs in Lebanon needs to be updated. The new numbers from IOM is 899,725, https://dtm.iom.int/lebanon. Changing the footnote from a snapshot report to the actual tracker might be better since the conflict is still on going and then we can add a more permanent source when the conflict has cooled down more.

As for the number 1.4 million the RS for it is a live blog making it practically impossible to read the original post and when searching for the quote on google the live blog does not appear. Also only 7 results come up of which 3 are wikipedia articles sourcing the 1.4 number to the same live blog.

I would suggest we only use the IOM number for now but if a range is preferred then 1.2 million would be a better number since that is the number that is more widely reported, https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/10/03/israel-beirut-lebanese-army-hezbollah/. Jjoonnii (talk) 11:32, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

I think the idea was to have both the peak number and the most up-to-date one, maybe it should be made clearer. Alaexis_¿question? 22:17, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

The latest IOM report says that the current number of IDPs is 201,820 though. Or am I missing something? Alaexis_¿question? 22:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

the last in the tracker is from round 65 which was done before the ceasefire deal. The snapshot from round 66 and that round hasn't been incorporated in the tracker yet. I believe 201,820 is the correct current number. That number is a bit misleading since it isn't the peak number. Jjoonnii (talk) 17:38, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Having looked at the two reports, round 65 and round 66, I do think it might be better to have a clearer framing of the IDPs for Lebanon. Perhaps a format showing significant changes e.g:

October 2023 - 28.96K

January 2024 - 86.67k

August 2024 - 113.73k

November 2024 - 899.73k

December 2024 - 201820 Jjoonnii (talk) 18:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Security forces vs soldiers as casualties

I noticed the Infobox lists 87 Israeli security forces members killed. I believe that this is due to Barak Ayalon, a kibbutz security officer, being killed by a Hezbollah attack. Community security officers killed during this war are recognized as fallen IDF soldiers. He's listed as a fallen soldier in the official IDF list. This is true of a few dozen IDF casualties listed as such in the October 7th attack article and wider Israel-Hamas war article. I believe that 38 of the listed IDF casualties were local security officers recognized as fallen troops. I think it might be appropriate to list 87 soldiers killed instead of security forces. The only reasonable objection I see to the figures is that the IDF posthumously recognized a 71 year old archaeologist who tagged along on a mission into Lebanon and got killed as a fallen soldier despite no clear reason to do so (in my view) as I doubt he was a reservist at that age. But it's extremely touchy to contradict official sources.--RM (Be my friend) 22:00, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what exactly you propose when you write I think it might be appropriate to list 87 soldiers killed instead of security forces. Alaexis_¿question? 22:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I meant change the Infobox. Currently it says "87 security forces killed" with a link to Israeli security forces. I think we should take that out and replace it with "87 soldiers killed." RM (Be my friend) 22:29, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Damage admit

https://news.walla.co.il/item/3710626 שמי (2023) (talk) 21:40, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Isn't it Adamit? We should def mention the damage to the border communities in this article. Alaexis_¿question? 20:39, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

2024 Lebanon war

Or Hezbollah-Israeli War 2024 … mans this is inconclusive 176.224.76.48 (talk) 09:59, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Increment the palestinian casualitys

Hello, im a tourist from the Spanish wikipedia article. I propose increasing the number of palestinian militants killed from your last outdated 40 reported killed to the 58 I managed to document using military sources from the Palestinian Islamic Jihad,Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and L'Orient le Jour and Meir Ammit and other arab media, Heres how should be divided in the subtitol of Casualitys and Damage section of Lebanon to make the note on the infobox less huge:

'Since the start of hostilities, 58 palestinian militants have died in the conflict. Between october 8 of 2023 and march 31 of 2024, 25 palestinian militants where killed in the blue line and airstrikes like the one in Beirut, 13 paramilitary men from PIJ (Al-Quds Brigades) and 12 from Hamas (5 where combatants from the al-Qassam Brigades).Source1 Between april 3 of 2024 and june 3 of 2024, 5 palestinian militants where killed: 4 paramilitary men from the PIJ and 1 paramilitary men from Hamas. Source1Source2Source3 Between july 14 of 2024 and september 17 of 2024, 5 palestinian militants where killed: 3 paramilitary men from PIJ, 1 paramilitary men from Hamas and 1 paramilitary men from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades. Source1 Source2Source3 Source4 Source5 From the start of the aistrike campaign against Lebanon initiated on september 23 of 2024 until today, 23 palestinian militants where killed: 11 paramilitary men from PIJ, 4 militants from Hamas, 7 paramilitary men from the PFLP and 1 paramilitary men from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades.' Source1 Source2 Source3 Source4 Source5 Source6 Source7 Source8 Source9

Hope this helps. Feliz navidad y felices fiestas. HappyKrab (talk) 23:15, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 26 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Closing because the proposer is not extended-confirmed and hence ineligible to file a move request in this topic area * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:40, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

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Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) → Israel–Hezbollah war (2023–present) – It is clearly a war since there is a ground invasion. 2600:4809:9871:C00:3AF7:E0DC:1A1C:BE3 (talk) 03:46, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

As per consensus above, the scope of this article is only up to the invasion and doesn't cover the invasion, which is instead covered at 2024 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 04:08, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

• Propose this article be moved instead to Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–2024) to avoid the confusion that this article covers the ground invasion.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 04:11, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

  • Propose making this article also cover the invasion and make this article title a war since it was a war even before the invasion 2600:4809:9871:C00:AEC4:CEFC:80E5:9543 (talk) 04:16, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

    Support proposal 173.71.93.29 (talk) 01:30, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.