Talk:Here I Stand (Usher album)

"Appetite" Credits

Whichever moron keeps removing Candice Nelson's rightful writing credits from "Appetite" please stop it, I've now provided an adequate source (http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=33:wj5qxvuhldfe) despite having the official booklet and therefore credits myself. Please accept your defeat...

The meaning of CONFIRMED...

Really, does anyone not know the meaning of the word "confirmed." Only two songs (which are "The Realest" and "At the Time") have been confirmed. "That Girl Right There" was leaked, not confirmed. It could have easily been a left over from "Confessions," or just a sampler like "Make It Rain." Stop adding unsourced material. --FSX-2007 (talk) 14:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Isn‘t Dr. Dre supposed to be producing for the album??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dillon73 (talk • contribs) 08:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Just What You Need

Whoever keeps puttine "Just what you need" that is not a single of ushers album. That song has recently surfaced on the internet. It would have to be fake as the albums first single has not even been released yetTrimy67 00:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Not on the Album

Usher has confirmed himself that songs like "You Play My Time," "Make It Rain," and "Romours," and "Shawty," will NOT be on the album. The only confirmed track is the realest.

 Where's the source for this info? Piyush90 20:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

What info? —Preceding unsigned comment added by FSX-2007 (talk • contribs) 07:20, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

To show that the songs listed above wont be on the album? Piyush90 18:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

They are only street tracks created to make buzz. Why would usher release a whole heap of songs on the album before relasing the first single!! Trimy67 01:16, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, besides, only two songs have been confirmed to be on the album, and that is The Realest, and the T-Pain track.--FSX-2007 03:07, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Dat Girl Right There

I belive Dat Girl Right There is going to be the first single. It has gotten more airplay then tracks that are already out. I hear it atleast every other day, and I'm not even a serious radio-listener. I don't have evidence but maybe someone else does and can add it.76.107.65.243 (talk) 23:00, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It seems more likely that In This Club will be the first single now, but it's still up in the air so I wouldn't mark it either way yet.--74.237.241.122 (talk) 22:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

POSSIBLE NEW SONGS?

CHECK OUT

• MOVING MOUNTAINS - USHER
• I CAN'T WIN - USHER
• TOUCH - USHER

THEY MAY BE SOME FROM HIS NEW ALBUM

YOU CAN YOUTUBE THE SONGS... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erndoglai (talk • contribs) 01:50, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Touch will not be on the album, but Moving Mountains will, and I Can't Win will likely be.--74.237.241.122 (talk) 21:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Samples

Does anyone know if any samples used on the album, especially Love In This Club part II. 2 of the songwriting credits go to Thom Bell and Linda Creed, so I'm guessing obviously it's from some Philly soul group.

This doesn't make sense

The album's second single, "Love in This Club, Part II", debuted on the "R&B/ Hip Hop Songs Chart at #14, [[[[[[[[[[and went to #10 on May 31, 2008.]]]]]]] On May 21, 2008 the video for "Moving Mountains" was released on Usher's MySpace page.

Todays is May 28. That is in the Singles section —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paramount X (talk • contribs) 17:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Extra...extra track listing

Guys, please note that WikiPedia is not a collection of indiscriminate contents. Those "other tracks recorded for the album" is too detailed and very fancrufty. It might serve significance to others but generally, its not. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 12:51, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

That's exactly the point of Wikipedia, to provide as much information about the concerned item in the article as possible. Whether or not you personally find it interesting information is irrelevant, it helps people who read the page to learn more about the album, exactly the point of an encyclopedic article unless I am mistaken. And please stop using non-existent words like "fancrufty", I can't argue against your case if you keep using ridiculous words that don't mean anything to the general english-speaking consensus. Many thanks. mos-def (talk) 18:27, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Please read WP:NOT. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 00:42, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I have read it. Please don't patronise me, my inclusion abides by all of those policies FYI. Please DISCUSS as is the intention of this page instead of simply posting WP:NOT, which is not helpful to this debate in any way seen as you haven't posted anything specific except your own opinion and words which mean nothing. (please explain "fancrufty") But in summary if you insist (and PLEASE read what I have just typed):

"Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia; there is no practical limit to the number of topics it can cover, or the total amount of content, other than verifiability and the other points presented on this page."

mos-def (talk) 16:37, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

PAPER refers to the number of articles that we can have, not really content within an article. Efe is right those other releases stuff is not necessary for a scholarly discussion of the topic for the general reader; merely useful for fanboys and collectors (whom we do not address here). "the point of Wikipedia, [is] to provide as much information about the concerned item in the article as possible"--could you point out guidelines that back you up on this? Thanks, indopug (talk) 17:56, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

For knowing what "fancrufty" means, please read WP:Fancruft. indopug (talk) 17:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Bloody hell, this is a crap article. Disappointing. Mind you so is the album. "Lifetime" is the only track with any magic. I think IP's need banishing from this article. — Realist² (Speak) 20:52, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

I think our colleagues have explained clearly to you. Im going to delete it now. This article is very visible and we don't want to give our readers some overly detailed tracklisting. Thank you. --Efe (talk) 00:06, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

"Hush"

On iTunes last week the single Hush appeared... where has this come from... is there a deluxe edition/re-release due out?--Wilsontoddlive (talk) 05:07, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

It seems that's not part of the album, just a single. A little strange. DiverseMentality^(Boo!) 05:14, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

This article needs expanding

We neat to mention the critical and commercial reception to this album. It's certainly been a knock down from Confessions, both critically and commercially and the singles have been disastrous under performing by his standards. — Realist² 12:20, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Album Sales

The citations say 1.5 million and 5 million worldwide. These are up to date sales. Do not edit it otherwise you are vandalizing the page. Thank you.BlackMambaKB24 (talk) 18:47, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Here I Stand (Usher album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 18:39, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Infobox

• I could not find a reference that supported recording being done in 2008 throughout article  Done

Removed. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• No reference in article supporting hip hop as a genre on the album  Done

Removed genres apart from R&B, as that is the main genre. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Lead

• "Usher divorced from Foster in 2009." - Not sure if necessary in lead  Done

I don't see why not as the lead should summarise the article's main info. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Background

• "Shortly before the album's release..." - Add comma at end  Done

That sounds odd to me when I read it out loud. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It is necessary punctuation. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "In December 2005..." - Add comma at end  Done

Sounds strange. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It is used in sentence below. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "In May 2007, Usher split with Patton as his manager." - Needs reference  Done

It is referenced... Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...Usher dismissed these claims on Total Request Live (TRL) in May 2008." - Needs reference  Done

It is referenced... Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "Usher's father, Usher Raymond III, died in January 2008." - Needs reference  Done

It is referenced... Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "In March 2007..." - Add comma at end  Done

Sounds strange. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It is used in "In May 2007, Usher split with Pattan as his manager." - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...although neither was included on the album." - Change "was" to "were"  Done

No, "neither" refers to singular objects. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Composition

• "...between two consenting adults" - Sentence should end there  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• It seems confusing to read at times with many different elements in the section  Done

I don't understand. Can you clarify what you mean? Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

At first, it seemed a little cluttered, but I now see it is necessary for the article. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Release and promotion

• All release dates should stay in "Release history" section  Done

The prose should at least touch on the release time. Omitting this info would be like removing chart peaks since there is a table of them. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...at Radio 1's Big Weekend, 2008..." - Make it "in 2008"  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...and on May 30, 2008 he performed on Good Morning America." - Should be standalone sentence  Done

Why? That would create two stubby sentences. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "In June he performed the single..." - Specify year; specify what single he performed  Done

Oops, done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "Usher sang "Love in This Club" with Young Jeezy at reality television show The Hills'third season finale on May 12..." - Change "at" to "on"; space between "Hills'" and "third"; specify year  Done
• Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
• "...and again, by himself, at the finale of the sixth season of Dancing with the Stars on May 20..." - Should be standalone sentence; specify year  Done

That creates two awkward stop-and-start sentences. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...and at the opening of the 2008 BET Awards on June 23, 2008." - Should be standalone sentence  Done

That creates two/three awkward stop-and-start sentences. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It would make "and" appear two times in the sentence. It needs some seperation. Otherwise it sounds like "This and this and this" - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "Usher performed "Love in This Club" and "This Ain't Sex" on..." - Start sentence with something besides Usher to avoid repetition  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "Usher performed a one-off showcase concert for 1,500 fans at indigO2, London on May 22, 2008. Tickets were allocated by ballot." - Combine sentences  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "On September 4, 2008..." - Add comma at end  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Singles

• "It featured on multiple singles..." - "It appeared on..."  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...and was certified gold by the Recording Industry Association of New Zealand." - Specify certification date  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...it impacted radio on August 18." - Specify year  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...and reached number forty-five on the Hot 100 and number four on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs." - Make standalone sentence  Done

Why? Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind. I see why it would be awkward as a standalone sentence. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Tour

• "...coining the trip One Night Stand: Ladies Only Tour." - Needs reference  Done

It is referenced... Not every single sentence needs to end with a citation. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...the tour commenced on November 2, 2008 and concluded twenty-three days later." - Specify what date it concluded  Done
• "The tour's female-focussed concept..." - Fix spelling  Done

Oops, I need to rememeber to check for American and British spelling differences. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Setlist

• Because this is not a tour article, I would put the setlist in a readable prose  Done

Why? The order of songs should be a list, IMO. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It just seemed sort of awkward as a standalone list. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Try to expand this section more  Done

How? Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Mistake on my part here. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Dates and venues

• Need references  Done

Referenced in the main tour prose section

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Reception

• No issues  Done

Reception

• "He called Here I Stand"as good - if not better" than Confessions." - Space between "Stand" and "as"  Done

There is a space. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

When I first looked at it, it appeared as if there wasn't one. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...sold an unweighted 267,000." - Specify number with "units"  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "In mainland Europe..." - Add comma at end  Done

Why? Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It is basic punctuation. When you read it, there is a pause between that phrase and "the album was received well". - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...and received a platinum award from the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI)." - Make standalone sentence  Done

Why? Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It initially appeared as a long sentence. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Aftermath

• "...Here I Stand had sold two million copies worldwide compared to Confessions' nineteen million copies..." - Needs citation  Done

There is a citation. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• "...and deflected comments that was responsible for the lower album sales." - Change "was" to "were"  Done

Oops, missing word ("he"). Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Try and find another name for the section to fit it better  Done

Yes, I had thought about that, but couldn't find a better one. I pondered "Impact", although the marriage break-up isn't really a result of the album. DO you have any suggestions? Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Maybe try "Social and economic effect" or "Social and economic impact". - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Track listing

• Add references  Done

Why? Most tracklistings do not have references because they are found in various sources discussing the album. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I see the credits now come from the "Personnel" section. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Amazon.com Bonus and US iTunes Store Bonus start tracks at number 21  Done

Fixed the Amazon.com one, but the iTunes one is correct as the worldwide deluxe edition tracks are also included. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Personnel

• No issues  Done

Charts

• No issues  Done

Release history

• Include "Format" and "Label" columns; you can also add "Edition(s)" album if necessary  Done

I don't believe it is possible to track down the various formats in every country and verify them with reliable sources. The label is noted in the "Release and promotion" prose section. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

References

• Reference 2 - Publisher needs to be wiki-linked  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Reference 4 - Publisher needs to be wiki-linked  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Reference 13 - Publisher is MTV Networks  Done

• I believe MTV News is sufficient. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

It says at the bottom of the website that the copyrights go to MTV Networks. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Reference 29 - Work and publisher need to be wiki-linked  Done

Done. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• References 9, 17, 42, 64, 100, 101, 102, 105, 126, 127 - Publisher needs to Prometheus Global Media  Done

Until December 2009 Billboard was published by Nielsen Business Media

Noted. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

• Number one information should be in "Charts" section  Done

Ew. No. Per WP:FOOTER navigational boxes should be at the bottom of the article. I fix any articles that contain a separate section for them, and encourage you to do the same. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I was not aware of this rule. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

OVERALL REVIEW

After reviewing this article thoroughly, I have decided to put the article on hold at this time. There are numerous issues that are affecting this article from reaching GA status. Here are the main issues:

• Prose quality: The prose of this article needs some work. As you can see, there are numerous grammar and punctuation issues among others.
• References to sources: There are a lot of spots where specific facts aren't supported by cited references.

Other issues have been listed above. I will give you the general seven days to fix these mistakes and/or debate the ones you believe do not affect good article status. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 23:58, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the review. I believe I have addressed all the issues you have raised. Adabow (talk · contribs) 05:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

I went through all of the comments I left, and put the {{done}} template around the items that have been fixed. I also put the {{notdone}} template on issues that I believe still need to be addressed according to GA criteria. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 07:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Everything has been done now. Adabow (talk · contribs) 08:03, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Since all of the issues have been addressed, I now feel confident to pass this article. Congratulations and keep up the good work. - Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 16:03, 15 July 2011 (UTC)