User talk:Cccefalon/Archives/2016
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Quality Image Promotion
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--QICbot (talk) 05:27, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
Quality Image Promotion
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--QICbot (talk) 05:28, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Quality Image Promotion
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--QICbot (talk) 05:25, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Hey there! Sorry, I had somehow missed your comment for the above image at the QI nomination page. May I ask what do you mean by "Please fix the redlinks. The distance of the little blue arrows to the rivers is different over the chart"? I don't get both parts: redlinks, and blue arrows. Thank you, and wish you a very Happy New Year! Rehman 09:41, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
- The redlinks are categories, that have not a mother category (also called overcategory). As this, they do not appear in blue but in red colour. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 14:44, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
- Okay, I will fix the categorization. What about the blue arrows? Rehman 23:35, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
QI Tunisia training
As part of the project Quality images training in Tunisia, the Wikimedia TN user group is looking for a Wikimedia commons User able to organize a training about Quality images, featured pictures, Valued images and Graphic Lab/Photography in Tunisia from February 18th to 22th, 2016. To participate please fill this form --Touzrimounir (talk) 19:20, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Architektur-Fotos aus mittlerer Distanz
Hallo Uwe,
zunächst: Besten Dank für Dein Engagement beim Thema „Nominierung von Qualitätsbildern“! Dieser Bereich ist erst kürzlich in meine Aufmerksamkeit gelangt, daher habe ich mich erst in den letzten Tagen dort engagiert. Vorher war ich der irrigen Meinung, dass ich nicht selbst Nominierungs-Vorschläge meiner Fotos erstellen kann; jetzt bin ich eines Besseren belehrt. Und ich verfolge mit Interesse, was sich dort tut und wie andere User bewerten. Nun aber zum eigentlichen Thema „Architektur-Fotos aus mittlerer Distanz“:
Mich interessiert, ob man Architektur-Fotos (Außen-Aufnahmen von Gebäuden) aus mittlerer Distanz perspektivisch korrigieren sollte oder nicht, bzw. bei Korrektur, in welchem Maße. Nach meinem Verständnis kann man solche Architektur-Fotos in 3 Gruppen kategorisieren:
- Kurze Distanz – stürzende Linien liegen in der Natur der Sache, perspektivische Korrekturen sind nicht sinnvoll (und meist gar nicht machbar)
- Lange Distanz – stürzende Linien sind unerwünscht und können im Allgemeinen einfach korrigiert werden
- Mittlere Distanz – hier liegt meines Erachtens der Hase im Pfeffer
1 und 2 sind unkritisch, mir geht es um den 3. Fall, die „mittlere Distanz“. Meine Beobachtungen dazu:
- User:Leit hatte mal dieses Foto als QI nominiert – ein Foto mit einer „rechtwinkligen“ Perspektiv-Korrektur. Zu meiner Überraschung wurde das Foto als QI anerkannt. Daraus hatte ich seinerzeit den Eindruck gewonnen, dass „rechtwinklige Perspektiv-Korrekturen“ hier im Allgemeinen erwünscht sind. Heute vermute ich, dass ich wahrscheinlich einen irreführenden Eindruck gewonnen hatte. Zur Info habe ich mal das Original-Foto hochgeladen, ohne Beschnitt und ohne Perspektiv-Korrektur.
- Die Bewertungen auf Quality images candidates sind in dieser Hinsicht inkonsistent. Perspektiv-Korrekturen werden unterschiedlich bzw. widersprüchlich bewertet, oft mit lapidaren Kommentaren in der Art „perspective problem“. Möglicherweise habe ich die Bewertungen von Qualitätsbilder-Nominierungen, die in den Bereich der „Architektur-Fotos aus mittlerer Distanz“ fallen, noch nicht hinreichend lang beobachtet. Beim derzeitigen Stand meiner Beobachtungen ergibt sich für mich aufgrund der unterschiedlichen Bewertungen ein konfuses und irritierendes Bild.
- Aufgrund meiner vorgenannten Irritationen hatte ich die zwei Versionen von Konrad-Zuse-Platz 5 erstellt, um ein Meinungsbild einzuholen. Damit hatte ich sozusagen zwei „Versuchsballons“ aufsteigen lassen. Im Ergebnis fühle ich mich in meiner Einschätzung bestätigt: Version 1 wurde beachtet (und letztlich von Dir als QI bewertet), hingegen hat Version 2 keine Kommentierung erfahren. Beides sind für mich wertvolle Bestätigungen, die sich mit meiner Einschätzung deckt. Leider bist Du bislang der Einzige gewesen, der sich zu einem der beiden „Ballons“ geäußert hat. Das Schweigen der anderen zu Version 1 interpretiere ich als Zustimmung. Das Schweigen zu Version 2 interpretiere ich als Indifferenz (so, wie bei anderen Fotos mit blauem Rahmen) – auch dieses Schweigen ist mir ein wertvolles Feedback.
Ich habe den Verdacht, dass wir (Du/ich/andere Benutzer) uns beim Thema „Architektur-Fotos aus mittlerer Distanz“ einig sind: Solche Fotos können zu einem gewissen Maße perspektivisch „etwas“ korrigiert werden; eine 100-prozentige, rechtwinklige Korrektur ist unangemessen, da sie den Sehgewohnheiten widerspricht und irritiert. Ob, und wenn ja, in welchem Maße die stürzenden Linien „entspannt“ werden, ist individuell zu betrachten, liegt im Ermessen des Fotografen und sollte sich an dessen Erfahrung (und einem „gesunden Menschenverstand“) orientieren.
Ich war auf der Suche in Wikipedia, ob es Richtlinien oder Empfehlungen zu diesem Thema gibt – bislang leider ohne Erfolg. Als maßgebliche Instanz betrachte ich Commons:Image guidelines. Dort ist im „Issue/Common Problems“-Eintrag „Distortions“ wenig Erbauliches zu finden, wie z. B. die lapidare Aussage „Images of architecture should usually be rectilinear“. Es wäre wünschenswert, wenn an dieser oder an anderer Stelle das Thema etwas ausführlicher dargestellt wäre. Eine mögliche Betrachtung könnte z. B. eine Differenzierung nach Kurze/Lange/Mittlere Distanz zum Thema haben. Falls Du diese Auffassung teilst, lass uns gemeinsam überlegen, wo und wie man in dieser Hinsicht Verbesserungen einbringen könnte. Einverstanden?
Ich bin gerne bereit, diese Diskussion an einer angemessenen Stelle auf Englisch zu führen – jedoch bin ich mir unsicher, wo ein adäquater Platz dafür wäre (vielleicht Commons talk:Image guidelines?).
Gruß, Hasenläufer (talk) 04:50, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Quality Image Promotion
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--QICbot (talk) 05:28, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Teure Kamera, teures Objektiv, lausige Fotos
Hallo Uwe,
darf ich Deine Aufmerksamkeit noch mal beanspruchen?
Mir sind bei der Beobachtung von Commons:Quality images candidates einige Fotos von Diego Delso in gewissem Sinne aufgefallen. Aus den Metadaten der Fotos von ihm („Poco a poco“/„Diego Delso“) ist erkennbar, dass seine Aufnahmen mit einer „Canon EOS 5DS R“ erfolgte, mit einem Objektiv „EF16-35mm f/4L IS USM“.
Beide Teile, Kamera und Objektiv, rangieren im oberen Preissegment; das Kamera-Modell mit dem „CMOS-Sensor mit 50,6 Megapixeln“ ist selbst im oberen Preis-Segment bzw. im professionellen Einsatz recht speziell.
Ich sehe beispielsweise, dass ein Foto mit einer Belichtungsdauer von 1/15 Sekunden aufgenommen wurde. Wir wissen nicht, ob ein Stativ im Einsatz war, oder nicht. Bekanntlich kann ohne Stativ bei einer solchen Belichtungsdauer nichts Vernünftiges entstehen – egal, wie teuer Kamera und Objektiv waren. Beim derzeitigen Stand der Technik wird in den Metadaten nicht vermerkt, ob ein Stativ im Einsatz war. ... (Scherz beiseite ...)
Ich habe einige Smartphone-Fotos gesehen, die qualitativ besser sind als die Fotos, die ich bislang von Diego Delso gesehen habe. Mit „qualitativ besser“ meine ich primär die Auflösung bzw. Detail-Treue. Ich erwarte von einer Kombination der genannten Kamera und des Objektivs eine vollkommen andere Auflösungs-Qualität/Detail-Treue als das, was ich bisher anhand der Fotos von Diego Delso gesehen habe. Daher sinniere ich, wo das Problem liegen mag. Möglicherweise hat Diego Delso bislang nicht realisiert, dass er ein Problem mit der Qualität seiner Fotos hat (vielleicht auch mehrere).
Das Problem mag in der benutzten Technik liegen oder zwischen den beiden Ohren des Anwenders. Ich möchte nicht falsch verstanden werden: Mir geht es nicht darum, jemanden zu diskreditieren. Ich will verstehen, warum beim Einsatz dieser Kamera und dieses Objektivs solch lausige Ergebnisse entstehen. Bislang kann ich nur spekulieren.
Welche Einschätzung des Themas hast Du, Uwe?
Gruß, Hasenläufer (talk) 07:31, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
- Das ist ist schwierig zu sagen. Diego ist ein erfahrener Photograph der weiss, was er tut. Ich weiss, dass er die neue Kamera erst seit kurzem hat. Möglicherweise bringt der Umstieg auf das deutliche größere Pixelformat Schwierigkeiten in der Handhabung mit sich. Das könnte allerdings nur Diego selber sagen. Ich weiss von meinem Umstieg von Halb- auf Vollformat im Jahr 2012, dass ich auch eine Zeitlang mit der neuen Technik zu kämpfen hatte und mir zwingend angewöhnen musste, Situation mit Stativ zu photographieren, die ich vorher locker aus der Hand erledigt hatte. Da Du Diego freundlicherweise verlinkt hast, kann er ja ggf. etwas zu seinen Erfahrungen sagen.
- Dass nach dem Kamerawechsel bei Diego auch die Qualität der Bilder in irgendeiner Form anders wurde, ist mir auch aufgefallen. Da bei mir in den nächsten 12 Monaten auch eine neue Kameraanschaffung ansteht, bin ich auch an einer Expertise interessiert.
- Generell bin ich aber nicht so der "Kameratechniker", da sind andere, wie z.B. User:Smial oder User:Hubertl besser sortiert.
- Soviel erstmal; ich bin gerade ausser Landes und kann mich nicht so ausführlich wie sonst meinen digitalen Verpflichtungen widmen ;) Gruss, --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 10:04, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
- Ich kann sowieso wenig dazu beitragen, denn ich fürchte mich schon mit meiner 6D vor jedem Ergebnis, welches nicht mit Stativ zustandegekommen ist. Grundsätzlich will ich dazu sagen, dass die alte Regel: Belichtungszeit ist zumindest das, was die Brennweite fordert, bereits ab der 20MP-Grenze fragwürdig geworden ist. Wer immer mal etwas mehr als 200mm auf die Kamera schraubt, das dann bei einem durchschnittlich luftigen Tag aufs Stativ spannt, dann auf digitale 10x-Vergrößerung zur händischen Scharfstellung geht, wird merken, dass sogar dann (speziell wenn man noch eine Sonnenblende draufhat) nix verwacklungsfrei ist. Meine 800mm-Bilder kommen nur dann scharf zustande, wenn ich mindestens (!) 5x abdrücke (remote und mit vorausgelöstem Spiegel natürlich), den ganz schweren Getriebeneiger von Manfrotto und zusätzlich vorher den nassen Finger dabei hochhalte. Damit will ich aufzeigen, dass das Ergebnis einer Auflösung wie eben Diegos Kamera nur dann wirklich gut ist, wenn man tatsächlich jede Linie auf dem Sensor mit einer anderen Lichtinformation speist. Was eben nur geht, wenn man wirklich den Body nicht schüttelt. Um dieses Problem in den Griff zu bekommen, werden wir uns dieses Jahr in Wien ein wirklich schweres Stativ zulegen, sich den Rucksack dranhängen hilft, aber dann ist plötzlich der Stativkopf die Schwachstelle und macht auf elastisch. Aber so ein Stativ hat dann mit dem Kopf eben fast 10 kg.
Bewundernswert sind die Ergebnisse aus der Hand aus meiner Sicht trotzdem - weil es eben doch geht, denn Christian Ferrer, Johann und Wolfgang (unvollständiger Auszug aus der Pixeloberklassefotografengruppe) sind mit ihren 810er mit 36MP unterwegs und das meistens aus der Hand. Auch ist Wolf im Wald ebenso mit einer 5Ds r unterwegs. Da gibts nicht viel zu jammern, was die zustandebringen. Mit anderen Worten: Pixelwahn ist kein Wahn, sondern fordert einen anderen Umgang mit den Geräten. Das für mich wiederum sehr sinnvolle Gegenüber ist die die Sony α7S II, welche den entgegengesetzten Weg geht, indem sie die Sensorempfindlichkeit hochsetzt - zulasten der verarbeiteten Pixelmenge (12MP). Hier werden geile Innenaufnahmen von Kirchen aus der Hand möglich. Beide Entwicklungen zusammen - vor allem eine Erhöhung der Sensorempfindlichkeit (ISO hochsetzen ist keine Lösung) - wird die Zukunft bringen. Im Übrigen halte ich es für ein Gerücht, Hasenläufer, dass Handycameras bessere Bilder machen können als solche mit guten Objektiven, die Physik lässt sich nicht austricksen. Das 16-35mm von Diego ist nicht schlecht - weil ziemlich praktisch, wird aber generell nicht so hoch bewertet. Hier bleibt die Linse unter den Möglichkeiten der 5Ds R zurück, IMHO. --Hubertl 10:31, 4 January 2016 (UTC)- Und bei all diesen Ausführungen habe ich nicht einmal das Wetter berücksichtigt, welches bereits ab 100m Entfernung enorm unterschiedliche Ergebnisse ausmachen kann. Je nach Luftfeuchtigkeit und Sonneneinstrahlung (es lebe der Fön, mit Kopfweh macht man die besten Bilder!!) haben wir bereits extreme Schwankungen! --Hubertl 11:05, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
- Ich kann sowieso wenig dazu beitragen, denn ich fürchte mich schon mit meiner 6D vor jedem Ergebnis, welches nicht mit Stativ zustandegekommen ist. Grundsätzlich will ich dazu sagen, dass die alte Regel: Belichtungszeit ist zumindest das, was die Brennweite fordert, bereits ab der 20MP-Grenze fragwürdig geworden ist. Wer immer mal etwas mehr als 200mm auf die Kamera schraubt, das dann bei einem durchschnittlich luftigen Tag aufs Stativ spannt, dann auf digitale 10x-Vergrößerung zur händischen Scharfstellung geht, wird merken, dass sogar dann (speziell wenn man noch eine Sonnenblende draufhat) nix verwacklungsfrei ist. Meine 800mm-Bilder kommen nur dann scharf zustande, wenn ich mindestens (!) 5x abdrücke (remote und mit vorausgelöstem Spiegel natürlich), den ganz schweren Getriebeneiger von Manfrotto und zusätzlich vorher den nassen Finger dabei hochhalte. Damit will ich aufzeigen, dass das Ergebnis einer Auflösung wie eben Diegos Kamera nur dann wirklich gut ist, wenn man tatsächlich jede Linie auf dem Sensor mit einer anderen Lichtinformation speist. Was eben nur geht, wenn man wirklich den Body nicht schüttelt. Um dieses Problem in den Griff zu bekommen, werden wir uns dieses Jahr in Wien ein wirklich schweres Stativ zulegen, sich den Rucksack dranhängen hilft, aber dann ist plötzlich der Stativkopf die Schwachstelle und macht auf elastisch. Aber so ein Stativ hat dann mit dem Kopf eben fast 10 kg.
Hello Uwe, it is the first time (I've been around for 8 years already) that I see how somebody contacts a third person to approach me (WTF?!). I don't want to say that I find that stupid but it just doesn't find a plausible explanation "between my ears" (maybe there is a leak indeed somewhere here). Instead of starting such a rumor about my capabilities or equipment Hasenläufer could rather provide hints and facts about the the problem he has with my images (which????), otherwise I consider this discussion insulting and a waste of time for everybody. Poco2 12:13, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
- Dear Diego, I started the discussion in German at the discussion site of an experienced German user, because German is my native language and because it would be a harder task for me to express the things in English. Sorry for doing so! In the meantime, I think it had been better to start the discussion in English at your discussion page. Believe me, it was NOT intendend to be a personal affront! To summarize my theme: I'm wondering about some photos, which have been taken by a combination of a "Canon EOS 5DS R" with a lens "EF16-35mm f/4L IS USM". I expected from such a combination to have more image details. And I was wondering, what could cause the lack of image details. Could a missing tripod be the cause? Please be free to participate at this discussion in English. Again, sorry! --Hasenläufer (talk) 20:32, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
- Wie schon nebenan angemerkt, bleiben jeder Zoom und die allermeisten Festbrennweiten in ihrem Auflösungsvermögen hinter den aktuellen Auflösungsmonstern, also D8xx, 5 DS R oder Sonys 36-MPixel-Knipse zurück. Dabei muß man bedenken, daß völlig unabhängig von der Qualität der Linse, der Stabilität des Stativs und der Verschlußzeit bei diesen Sensorauflösungen die Beugung schon bei überraschend großen Blendenzahlen zuschlägt. Selbst mit einem theoretisch angenommenen völlig fehlerfreien Objektiv ist bei Kleinbild schon bei Blende 8 Feierabend mit der Herrlichkeit, da werden bereits nur noch etwa 30 MPixel nutzbar sein, bei Cropkameras sind es bei Blende 5.6 nur noch 27 MPixel. Kleinbild und Blende 11: 15 MPixel. Guten Morgen, liebe Pixelpeeper und Schärfefanatiker ;-)
Trotzdem sind diese hochauflösenden Sensoren natürlich nicht völlig sinnbefreit. Mit lichtstarken Spitzenobjektiven kann man bei Kleinbild heutzutage immerhin um die 40 MPixel oder sogar etwas mehr auflösen, das ist doch schon was. Dabei möchte man latürnich keinesfalls unter f/5.6 abblenden, besser mit f/4 fotografieren. Ich sehe schon die Pixelfanatiker bei Architektur draußen im Feld mit Fokusstacking arbeiten, was nebenbei im Bereich der Innenraum-Panoramafotografie im professionellen Bereich schon seit Jahren praktiziert wird, damit bei diesen interaktiven VR-Panoramen beim Hineinzoomen ausreichende Schärfe im gesamten Bild gewährleistet bleibt. Da werden also nicht nur Panoramreihen aufgenommen, sondern zusätzlich Fokus- und ggf. auch noch Belichtungsstacks zusammengerechnet. Ein zweiter Aspekt hoher Sensorauflösungen ist freilich wesentlich Wikipedia-Knipspraxisnäher: Die große Pixelmenge erlaubt erheblich mehr Freiheiten bei der digitalen Nachbearbeitung. Schärfungsartefakte z.B. können besser vertuscht werden und legen sich nicht mehr unbedingt daumenbreit um die Konturen. Moirée kann weitgehend vermieden werden, da der Sensor quasi in Hardware überabtastet - und die nachfolgende Bildverarbeitung kann das (hoffentlich) intelligent herausrechnen. Was bei weniger hochauflösenden Sensoren und sehr scharf zeichnenden Objektiven nicht geht, weil das Moirée gewissermaßen schon in den Rohdaten fixiert ist. Deshalb hatte und hat man ja eben die Streuscheiben aka anti-aliasingfilter vor den Sensoren. Billige Kitzooms haben selten großartige Schwierigkeiten mit Moirée, da ist der Filter schon in der Objektivkonstruktion angelegt - einfach weil die völlig unabhängig von der Beugung eh nur drei, vier oder fünf MPixel auflösen.
Was kann man daraus für QIC folgern? Da landen wir genau bei dem aktuellen Streitthema "downscaling oder nicht downscaling". Real existierende Zooms schaffen laut DXO Auflösungen, die von unter fünf(!) bis um die 10, 12 MPixel reichen, einzelne, meist sehr teure Spitzenlinsen kratzen an den 20 MPixeln herum. Festbrennweiten liegen generell etwas besser, aber über 40 MPixel bei Kleinbild schaffen derzeit meins Wissens nur die aktuellen Zeiss Otusse, die bei 2000$ oder 3000$ anfangen. Wenn nun ein Commons-Knipser mit seiner hochauflösenden Kamera nicht unter optimierten Laborbedingungen, sondern draußen im Feld fotografiert, dabei feststellt, daß sich irgendwo ein Blättchen im Wind gerührt hat und trotz 1/500s dreieinhalb Pixelbreiten Unschärfe zeigt, die aber beim Runterskalieren auf sechs oder meinetwegen acht MPixel verschwindet und ein perfekt auf A4 und mit nur geringen Einschränkungen größer druckbares Ergebnis liefert - soll das dann kein QI mehr werden, einfach aus Prinzip, weil "nicht verkleinert werden darf!!!!elf"? -- Smial (talk) 12:14, 4 January 2016 (UTC) Ps: Ich habe gerade in letzter Zeit auf QIC dermaßen viel Pixelschrott bei Perspektiveentzerrungen gesehen, die allesamt durchgewunken wurden, daß ich da nur noch sporadisch reingucke. Vielen dieser Bilder hätte eine sinnvolle Skalierung sehr, sehr gut getan - aber die ist ja nicht erwünscht, und der Knipser läuft Gefahr, das begehrte Bapperl nicht zu ernten. Also interpolierten Pixelschrott hochladen. Weil ja auch Zwangssenkrechten verlangt werden. Ach ja, und leises Rauschen im blauen Himmel ist auch nicht erlaubt (obwohl das bei Bayer-Sensoren systemimmanent ist), also wird glattgebügelt, was das Zeug hält. Verflixt, nun sind Kanten unscharf, also die Unscharfmaskierung auf Anschlag drübergenödelt. Und genau so sehen seit einiger Zeit viele, sehr viele, zu viele QI aus. Wie aus der Retorte, aber nicht mehr wie ein lebendiges Foto. Pps: Bei der Gelegenheit schlage ich doch glatt mal wieder einen runterskalierten, zugeschnittenen, rauschenden, mit ausgefressenen Spitzlichtern versehenen Schnappschuß vor...
- Wie schon nebenan angemerkt, bleiben jeder Zoom und die allermeisten Festbrennweiten in ihrem Auflösungsvermögen hinter den aktuellen Auflösungsmonstern, also D8xx, 5 DS R oder Sonys 36-MPixel-Knipse zurück. Dabei muß man bedenken, daß völlig unabhängig von der Qualität der Linse, der Stabilität des Stativs und der Verschlußzeit bei diesen Sensorauflösungen die Beugung schon bei überraschend großen Blendenzahlen zuschlägt. Selbst mit einem theoretisch angenommenen völlig fehlerfreien Objektiv ist bei Kleinbild schon bei Blende 8 Feierabend mit der Herrlichkeit, da werden bereits nur noch etwa 30 MPixel nutzbar sein, bei Cropkameras sind es bei Blende 5.6 nur noch 27 MPixel. Kleinbild und Blende 11: 15 MPixel. Guten Morgen, liebe Pixelpeeper und Schärfefanatiker ;-)
- Hasenläufer, das ist nicht an einer Person sondern leider ein allgegenwärtiges Problem auf Commons! Was meinst du, wie oft ich als Juror bei WLM/WLE Russland schon drüber gestolpert bin, dass Fotografen mit (laut EXIF Data) vermeintlicher Top-Kamera qualitativ völlig unbrauchbare Fotos hochgeladen haben? ;-) Der Grund kann sowohl billige Optik sein, sehr viel wahrscheinlicher mMn aber vor allem Pfusch beim Scharfstellen bzw. bei Belichtungswahl, sowie mangelnde bzw. fehlende Nachbearbeitung. Das ist übrigens insbesondere bei Massen-Uploadern oft der Fall, ich muss wohl nicht weiter erklären warum... --A.Savin 16:15, 4 January 2016 (UTC) P.S. Mit der Aussage "Ich habe einige Smartphone-Fotos gesehen, die qualitativ besser sind als die Fotos, die ich bislang von Diego Delso gesehen habe" bist du allerdings ungerecht ggü. Diego Delso.
- Die Aussage "Ich habe einige Smartphone-Fotos gesehen, die qualitativ besser sind als die Fotos, die ich bislang von Diego Delso gesehen habe" nehme ich wieder zurück. Sie ist unzutreffend. Da sind die Pferde mit mir durchgegangen. Ich wollte das Thema etwas überspitzt darstellen, das ist aber nicht in Ordnung.--Hasenläufer (talk) 20:10, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:26, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:20, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:24, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Not a Commoner ?
Excuse me but I need explanation on the recent rejection of an image I submitted as Quality Image. You wrote that the nomination was declined because the user was not a Commoner. Can you clarify what is a Commoner ? And what is not ? Thanks Anthere (talk) 10:24, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
- Max Chiswick is not a registered User in Wikimedia Commons. According to QIC rules, images of a not registered user a not eligible for QIC. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 12:21, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
- Have you read the QIC rules before nominating? --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 12:26, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:31, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
FP Promotion
★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★
The image File:Tonle Sap Siem Reap Cambodia Girl-begging-for-money-with-snake-01.jpg, that you nominated on Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Tonle Sap Siem Reap Cambodia Girl-begging-for-money-with-snake-01.jpg has been promoted. Thank you for your contribution. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so. |
/FPCBot (talk) 13:03, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
The merit is for you. ;o) Yann (talk) 13:05, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:25, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:24, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:26, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:25, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:24, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:27, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:22, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:21, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Train photo File:Naha Okinawa Japan Monorail-01.jpg
I think this is an excellent composition, but it might have been a better one. Why didn't you put the focus on the first building (instead of the train) and used a higher f-value? The background is a bit blurred and in this case I think it would have made the photo perfect. Or is my judgement not correct? I understand you probably will not return to this place. --Michielverbeek (talk) 06:26, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
- No, I won't return there. The problem for the setting was, that two (considerably fast) trains headed in different directions. To freeze the motion, I needed a shutter time < 1/250s (I had 1/320 available with my presets) which effects in a f/6.3. Also, I had to choose one of the moving trains whereas the closer was the one, my focus finder was pointing to. As a consequence, the background is of course out of focus. Not an excellent photo, but still a good one --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 07:02, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:23, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:26, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:21, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:20, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:25, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:31, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:23, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:20, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:21, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:23, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
Rätsel
Hallo! Da muss ich dich doch mal um Hilfe bitten und bevor ich mich mit der englischen Sprache Mühe, wende ich mich mal ausnahmsweise direkt an dich. Das Bild File:Haltern am See, Bootssteg -- 2016 -- 0490.jpg habe ich korrigiert. Zuerst hatte ich es blöderweise an der Pforte im Hintergrund ausgerichtet. Das war nicht korrekt, da diese logischerweise schief stehen muss, damit sie von allein in's Schloss fallen kann. Jetzt ist es am dem Ponton im Wasser ausgerichtet, da dieser eigentlich horizontal im Wasser liegen müsste. Und jetzt gerade habe ich es noch weiter senkrecht getellt, damit auch die Pfosten senkrecht sind. Es wäre nett, wenn du noch einmal aus das Bild schauen könntest und wenn's nicht passt, mir noch einmal einen Tipp geben könntest. Vielen Dank schon einmal. --XRay talk 09:21, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
- So, die weißen Keile sind weg und ich habs promoted. Generell ist natürlich das Motiv selbst ohne richtigen Hintergrund nicht so prickelnd. ich könnte mir aber vorstellen, dass man das im letzten Tageslicht passend hinkriegen könnte. Das Farbrauschen im oberen Teil ist grenzwertig, falls Du nicht daran schon gedreht hast, würde ich mal den Regler "Color" unter "Noise reduction" auf 50 stellen. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 09:42, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
- Die Regler stehen schon so. Ideal ist das Bild nicht, ich weiß. Danke für deinen Hinweis. Manchmal bin ich ein wenig betriebsblind ... --XRay talk 10:51, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:21, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:20, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:20, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:26, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
FP Promotion
★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★
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/FPCBot (talk) 21:01, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:20, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:19, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
FP promotion
★ This image has been promoted to Featured picture! ★
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Christian Ferrer (talk) 08:09, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:19, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:23, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Photo request
Hi Uwe,
I was wondering how if I can contact you via email to discuss a photo. I am editing a book on mountains and very much would like to propose one of your photos for the cover.
Best wishes,
Carina Hoorn (The Netherlands)
- Of course. Please use the link at the left side of my User page or simply click https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Cccefalon
- Cheers, --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 18:39, 9 February 2016 (UTC)
Mauritius "Post Office" stamps
Is this image File:Mauritius One-Penny-and-Two-Pence-famous-stamps-01.jpg a photo of the original stamps the Mauritius Postal Museum own or the copies? Thanks Ww2censor (talk) 15:20, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
- Allegedly, it is the original which is displayed at the Mauritius Postal Museum behind security glas. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 15:24, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
- They have the originals that, as I understand it from the literature, are seldom on display and usually the copies are displayed according to what I read. I'll have a closer look. I wonder if they let the public know which is actually being shown. Thanks Ww2censor (talk) 23:03, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:19, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:17, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
Dies und das
Hallo Uwe! Danke für deinen Vorschlag beim Bild File:Duisburg, Landschaftspark Duisburg-Nord, Klettergarten -- 2016 -- 1081.jpg. Ich möchte es ehrlich gesagt nicht beschneiden, denn gerade die unscharfen Bereiche habe ich absichtlich gemacht, um ein wenig die Höhe zu demonstrieren. Aber es muss ja auch nicht unbedingt QI werden. Ich versuche halt momentan ein wenig zu experimentieren. Noch etwas anderes. Bei einigen deiner Bilder habe ich "Quality images of buildings in Germany" entfernt. Da ist "Quality images of churches in North Rhine-Westphalia" bereits drin. Ich hoffe, du siehst mir die Änderung nach. Unlängst hatte ich übrigens die riesigen Kategorien mit Churches, Buildings und Sculptures mal nach Bundesländern aufgeteilt. --XRay talk 05:48, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
- Guten Morgen, Dietmar. Ich habe mich einfach mal neutral positioniert. Unterschiedliche Auffassungen der kompositorischen Idee sind ja nichts negatives, sondern bringen Vielfalt. Für Deine Kategorisierungsarbeit danke ich Dir. Du hast ja bereits bemerkt, dass ich an Deiner Systematik nichts auszusetzen habe und es ist in der Tat sinnvoll, eine weitere Untergliederung zu schaffen, wenn die Unterkategorie bereits wieder mehr als 200 Einträge hat. Manchmal tauchen bei mir overkats auf, das hängt allerdings damit zusammen, dass ich beim Hochladen ein template benutze und danach noch Feinjustierungen vornehme. Da rutscht mir dann gelegentlich die eine oder ander overkat durch. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 06:05, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
- Alles gut. BTW: Es wäre auch kein Problem, wenn du das Bild abgelehnt hättest. --XRay talk 09:53, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
A beer for you!
Thanks a lot for your comments on QIC although my nominations were declined. Carrotkit (talk) 12:25, 3 April 2016 (UTC) |
- You are welcome. Do you have a "real" camera? Would be great to see you contributing to QIC. Also, it might consolate you, that a lot of "first nominations" fail but most users which stay with us collect experience. Cheers, --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 12:49, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
- I was one of those ;) Poco2 13:05, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks, Diego, for seconding me. By the way, I just returned from Borneo and have to catch up a little bit with reviews. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 13:10, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
- I was one of those ;) Poco2 13:05, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
knallblauer Himmel in Jerusalem
Ich bin bei den meisten Bildern selbst erschrocken. Aber ich hab da wirklich absolut nichts getrickst. Hab nur einen etwas besseren UV-Filter vor dem guten 2,8er Objektiven. Egal ob 24-70 oder 70-200, immer ist der Himmel strahlend blau. Als ich in Jerusalem ankam, war mir besonders auffällig, daß es dort sehr hell ist (meine Augen brauchten einen Tag, sich anzupassen, trotz selbstverdunkelnder Brille) - und die Belichtungswerte der Kameras haben das bestätigt. So extrem habe ich das weder in Abu Dhabi noch Mexico, Hongkong oder sonstwo erlebt. Bei dem QI-Kandidaten hatte ich auch noch die Sonne fast direkt hinter mir. Mit Polfilter wäre das wohl Richtung Schwarz gegenagen ;) Ehrenwort, nix Schummelei, ich kann dir gern die Rohdateien schicken. --Ralf Roleček 21:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
- Ich glaube Dir, Ralf :) Ich hab ja häufig das gleiche Problem mit der Ostküste in Sabah, dass zu bestimmten Tageszeiten die Farben dermassen aufdringlich werden, dass ich regelmässig gefragt werde, ob mir der Regler für die Sättigung ausgerutscht ist. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 03:41, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
EXIF data
Hi Cccefalon, thanks for this comment you added to my QI nomination. I wondered why you think the EXIF data should be left on. DeFacto (talk). 06:10, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- The EXIF date are useful to assess the quality of the photo and deciding, what the photographer did right and wrong in them. Vice versa it is an asset to learn from skilled photographers how the photo was shot.
- QIC in first instance is not a place to collect QI labels but to learn and improve skills. Under that angle of view, providing the EXIF date is a benefit both for photographer and reviewer. Cheers, --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 09:47, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks Cccefalon, good answer - it makes sense now. I'll try to include it in the future. DeFacto (talk). 17:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
- And thanks for your constructive comments on my fully-EXIF'd nomination today! Your advice is very much appreciated. . DeFacto (talk). 15:52, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
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--QICbot (talk) 05:22, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
Proboscis monkey
Hi - I have reverted your edit as the animals are not in captivity. None of my images show animals in captivity. Charles (talk) 15:56, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, it was not taken in the fenced perimeter of Labuk Probioscis Reserve? --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:17, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
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Your image has been reviewed and promoted
Congratulations! Limbahau Sabah Holy-Rosary-Church-01.jpg, which was produced by you, was reviewed and has now been promoted to Quality Image status. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Quality images candidates. We also invite you to take part in the categorization of recently promoted quality images.
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--QICbot (talk) 05:19, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Borobudur pictures
Hi there, or should I say Selamat pagi? Incredibly, there are no Featured Pictures of Borobudur. Every single one of the Quality Images of Borobudur is by you, and several of them look featurable. Do you have any couple of favorites that you'd like to be nominated first? I have several other users' photos that I want to nominate, but I'd like to nominate at least one of your Borobudur pictures within 3 weeks or so. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:24, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- Selamat pagi dari negeri Sabah. Cuti di sini. Thank you for your kind offer to nominate one of the Borobudur images. However, as I don't have a reliable monitor with me, I first have to check carefully which of the photos is suitable to survive a FP challenge. I will do that after being back home in the first week of April. Cheers, --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 23:28, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
- Excellent. When you do, please ping me, so that your reply gets prompt attention. Selamat jalan! Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:51, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Just following up on this. Do let me know when you've had a chance to look at the photos. I'm free to nominate one at the moment. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:49, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
- Excellent. When you do, please ping me, so that your reply gets prompt attention. Selamat jalan! Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:51, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Quality Image Promotion
Your image has been reviewed and promoted
Congratulations! Zürich Switzerland Tram-Line-6-01.jpg, which was produced by you, was reviewed and has now been promoted to Quality Image status. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Quality images candidates. We also invite you to take part in the categorization of recently promoted quality images.
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Your image has been reviewed and promoted
Congratulations! Tambunan Sabah Opening-of-Kaamatan-2015-50.jpg, which was produced by you, was reviewed and has now been promoted to Quality Image status. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Quality images candidates. We also invite you to take part in the categorization of recently promoted quality images.
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Your image has been reviewed and promoted
Congratulations! Cih-hu Taiwan Chiang-Residence-Courtyard-01.jpg, which was produced by you, was reviewed and has now been promoted to Quality Image status. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Quality images candidates. We also invite you to take part in the categorization of recently promoted quality images.
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Your image has been reviewed and promoted
Congratulations! Taipei Taiwan National-Palace-Museum-02.jpg, which was produced by you, was reviewed and has now been promoted to Quality Image status. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Quality images candidates. We also invite you to take part in the categorization of recently promoted quality images.
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Your image has been reviewed and promoted
Congratulations! Semporna Sabah Regatta-Lepa-2015-20.jpg, which was produced by you, was reviewed and has now been promoted to Quality Image status. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Quality images candidates. We also invite you to take part in the categorization of recently promoted quality images.
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--QICbot (talk) 05:26, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
A bowl of strawberries for you!
The strawberry fruit (which is not actually a berry) is widely appreciated for its characteristic aroma, bright red color, juicy texture, and sweetness.
Nice photo, thanks for uploading it at commons. :-) Steinsplitter (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2016 (UTC) |
Photo Challenge Winner | |
Congratulations!
Your picture Sandakan Sabah Sawmill-20.jpg won the 1st place in the Photo Challenge Manufacturing, in June 2016. You can find the results of the challenge here. |
--Jarekt (talk) 02:22, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Photo Challenge – Second Place | |
Congratulations!
Your picture Gozo Malta Azure-window-01.jpg won the 2nd place in the Photo Challenge Rock formations, in June 2016. You can find the results of the challenge here. |
-- Jarekt (talk) 02:52, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Category Quality images Userkategorie "Quality images by User:Cccefalon"
Zahlreiche Uploads von dir enthalten Kategorien "QI", obwohl sie keine sind. Warum? Ich habe keine Zeit, die alle rauszusuchen und zu entfernen; tust du das bitte selbst? Danke. --A.Savin 15:38, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Bitte genau hinschauen, es handelt sich um user categories. Da gibts von Deiner Seite nichts rauszusuchen und zu entfernen. Falls Du allerdings ein Photo findest wo z.B zu Unrechrt Category:Quality images of Sweden draufsteht, darfst Du m ich gerne darauf hinweisen. Danke. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:00, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- P.S. Beim Bild von der Handwerkskammer ist allerdings ein copy&paste Fehler unterlaufen, der muss natürlich raus.--CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:02, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Ja und nein: Quality images by country -> Q.I. of Sweden -> Q.I. of Sweden by user -> Q.I. of Sweden by Ccccefalon. Die letztere sollte also schon nicht ohne Review rein. --A.Savin 16:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Dann in dubio pro reo. Du kannst die Bilder aber gerne auf QIC einstellen, wenn Dir das weiterhilft. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:08, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- A.Savin:Warum Cccefalon das überhaupt macht, das ist dir aber schon klar? Mobbing bis in Wikipedia rein, inklusive Kurier-Artikel. Nur weil er angemerkt hat, dass man in QI nicht einfach seine Bilder abladen sollte wie auf einer Müllkippe, nur weil grad irgend ein WikiLovesxxx fertig ist. Ich kann mich nämlich nicht erinnern, dass sich irgendwer an der Diskussion beteiligt hätte. Na ja, ich hab meinen Senf dazugegeben. Aber in WP war mir das dann auch ziemlich wumpe. --Hubertl 16:10, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Dann in dubio pro reo. Du kannst die Bilder aber gerne auf QIC einstellen, wenn Dir das weiterhilft. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:08, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Ja und nein: Quality images by country -> Q.I. of Sweden -> Q.I. of Sweden by user -> Q.I. of Sweden by Ccccefalon. Die letztere sollte also schon nicht ohne Review rein. --A.Savin 16:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Da ich die letzten beiden Repliken nicht so wirklich verstanden habe, kommentiere ich die mal nicht und hier noch einmal meine Bitte (an dich, Cccefalon, wohlgemerkt). Bitte entferne die zu Unrecht eingefügten "QI by country" Kategorien, solange die Fotos noch nicht das Review passiert haben. Und reverte bitte nicht, wenn ich das in gutem Glauben mache, damit die Anzahlen der QI nach Land nicht verfälscht werden. --A.Savin 16:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Doch ich werde das revertieren. Userkategorie ist Userkategorie. Damit machst Du einen tiefen Eingriff in die Regeln von Commons. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:23, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Noch einmal: Was sagst du dazu, dass deine "Userkategorie" in einer normalen Projektkategorie drin ist? Also, nach meinem Verständnis (und ich bin schon was länger hier unterwegs) ist es so: "reine" Userkategorie = kannst du nennen wie du willst (solange nicht gegen die guten Sitten verstoßend) und so viele deiner Fotos reintun wie du willst. "Gemischte" User- und Projektkategorie wie hier offenbar der Fall: Kannst neennen wie du willst (s.o.), sollte aber auch nicht dem Rahmen der drüber stehenden Projektkategorie widersprechen. Ansonsten können User, die über die Projektkategorie hierher gelangen, in die Irre geführt werden. Die Logik sollte doch klar sein? Oder ist dein urplötzlich aus dem Nichts kommendes Platzhirschgehabe gar ein Selbstzweck? --A.Savin 16:35, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Definiere "Platzhirschgehabe". Wie kann jemand Platzhirsch sein, der einigermassen zurückgezogen arbeitet? Der einzige, der mich hier ans Licht zerren will,bist doch DU ... --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:37, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Ein durch QIC bewertetes Bild wird durch das QIC-Label markiert, nicht durch eine Userkategorie. Da ist nichts irreführendes. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:43, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Noch einmal: Was sagst du dazu, dass deine "Userkategorie" in einer normalen Projektkategorie drin ist? Also, nach meinem Verständnis (und ich bin schon was länger hier unterwegs) ist es so: "reine" Userkategorie = kannst du nennen wie du willst (solange nicht gegen die guten Sitten verstoßend) und so viele deiner Fotos reintun wie du willst. "Gemischte" User- und Projektkategorie wie hier offenbar der Fall: Kannst neennen wie du willst (s.o.), sollte aber auch nicht dem Rahmen der drüber stehenden Projektkategorie widersprechen. Ansonsten können User, die über die Projektkategorie hierher gelangen, in die Irre geführt werden. Die Logik sollte doch klar sein? Oder ist dein urplötzlich aus dem Nichts kommendes Platzhirschgehabe gar ein Selbstzweck? --A.Savin 16:35, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Doch ich werde das revertieren. Userkategorie ist Userkategorie. Damit machst Du einen tiefen Eingriff in die Regeln von Commons. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:23, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Noch einmal: Was sagst du dazu, dass deine "Userkategorie" in einer normalen Projektkategorie drin ist? Also, nach meinem Verständnis (und ich bin schon was länger hier unterwegs) ist es so: "reine" Userkategorie = kannst du nennen wie du willst (solange nicht gegen die guten Sitten verstoßend) und so viele deiner Fotos reintun wie du willst. "Gemischte" User- und Projektkategorie wie hier offenbar der Fall: Kannst neennen wie du willst (s.o.), sollte aber auch nicht dem Rahmen der drüber stehenden Projektkategorie widersprechen. Ansonsten können User, die über die Projektkategorie hierher gelangen, in die Irre geführt werden. Die Logik sollte doch klar sein? --A.Savin 16:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Du wiederholst Dich. Es steht Dir aber frei, eine Änderung der QIC-Regeln herbeizuführen, die den Begriff "Qualitätsbild" allein für QIC reklamiert. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:46, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Noch einmal: Was sagst du dazu, dass deine "Userkategorie" in einer normalen Projektkategorie drin ist? Also, nach meinem Verständnis (und ich bin schon was länger hier unterwegs) ist es so: "reine" Userkategorie = kannst du nennen wie du willst (solange nicht gegen die guten Sitten verstoßend) und so viele deiner Fotos reintun wie du willst. "Gemischte" User- und Projektkategorie wie hier offenbar der Fall: Kannst neennen wie du willst (s.o.), sollte aber auch nicht dem Rahmen der drüber stehenden Projektkategorie widersprechen. Ansonsten können User, die über die Projektkategorie hierher gelangen, in die Irre geführt werden. Die Logik sollte doch klar sein? --A.Savin 16:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Statt Dich hier aufzuspielen, kannst Du das Thema ja im QIC talk diskutieren und sehen, ob sich dort eine breite Mehrheit findet, die Deine Sicht der Dinge auch so sieht. Meine Userkategorien einfach löschen, davon würde ich Dir strikt abraten ... --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:52, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Na mit deinem Umgangston ist es eher an der Zeit, das auf COM:ANU zu melden. Woher diese Aggressivität kommt, bleibt wohl ein Rätsel. --A.Savin 16:56, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Dass Du auf sachliche Vorschläge nicht eingehst, wundert micht nicht. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:58, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Hast ja auch nichts vorgeschlagen, nur stumpf revertet. --A.Savin 17:04, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Doch, hab ich: Ich schlug vor, dass Du das auf QIC talk diskutieren lässt und eine Mehrheit für Deine Sicht der Dinge suchst. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 17:20, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Hast ja auch nichts vorgeschlagen, nur stumpf revertet. --A.Savin 17:04, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Dass Du auf sachliche Vorschläge nicht eingehst, wundert micht nicht. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:58, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
@A.Savin: Hieltest du es nicht für angebrachter, die Situation nicht gleich eskalieren zu lassen. Im Endeffekt müssen wir uns schon klar sein, dass wir im selben Boot sitzen. Ich kann deinen Einwand verstehen, ich kann aber auch Uwes Reaktion nachvollziehen. Was können wir tun, damit Leute, die sich wirklich aktiv und konstruktiv um QI bemühen bzw. bemüht haben, nicht von - ich sags mal, wenn auch ungern, weils nicht wirklich stimmt - "Aussenstehenden" derartig runtergemacht werden. Ich denke, dass es der völlig falsche Weg ist, nun dem Uwe den Weg zu nehmen, wie er es für sich und seiner Mitarbeit in Wikimedia halten will. Nachdem was passiert ist. Es gab damals, als sich Atamari deswegen beschwerte, niemanden außer mir, der bereit gewesen wäre, sich diese Sache überhaupt anzuhören. Und es betrifft alle, welche in QI und FP mitmachen. Wir haben genug Schönwetterabstimmer! Wenn die Kritiker nicht unterstützt werden, dann kann QI wirklich nur noch als Abnickverein verstanden werden. Damit tritt dann genau das ein, was völlig zu Unrecht unterstellt wurde, dass QI nämlich tot wäre. Das sagen Leute, die vielleicht 50 Nominierungen haben in 5 Jahren. Und die dann beleidigt sind, dass nicht alle 50 enthusiastisch-orgiastisch gefeiert wurden. --Hubertl 17:10, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Was soll an meinem Einwand, dass Fotos erst nach erfolgreichem Review in QI-Kategorien einzusortieren sind, so dramatisch sein bzw. wieso sollte es Uwe davon abhalten, hier mitzumachen? --A.Savin 17:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Mit anderen Worten: Du weißt nicht, warum Uwe das macht? Stimmt das, A.Savin?? Ich frage nur mal nach, damit man, falls es sich hier in dieser Diskussion um ein Missverständnis mangels Information handelt, dieses zuvor löst. Vielleicht findest du dazu dann eine Lösung. Oder kannst diese Vorgangsweise akzeptieren. Das setzt aber voraus, dass @Cccefalon: die Sache noch einmal aufs Tapet bringt. --Hubertl 17:20, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Nein. Ich beobachte weder den IRC, noch die Mailinglisten, noch die Intrigen aus der deutschen Wikipedia. Habe ich was verpasst? --A.Savin 17:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Ich fürchte, dass du was verpasst hast. Nicht weil es etwas großartiges gewesen wäre, es war Teil des ziemlich untauglichen Versuches, die Anforderungen, welche von der Foundation über WMDE (oder AT ,aber da hamma weniger Diskrepanzen) bzgl. der Klassifizierung von Bilderprojekten (Bitte viele QIs abliefern) vorgegeben werden, umzusetzen.
- Auf der einen Seite muss man das Engagement der Kollegen bewundern, welche stellvertretend Bilder nominieren, auf der anderen Seite ist damit auch die Gefahr gegeben, dass das Niveau absinkt, weil bei einem Einspruch der Nominierer blöd dasteht und keine Möglichkeit hat, an die Raw Bilder zu kommen um irgendwas zu verbessern. Es ist ein kaum lösbares Dilemma.
- Leider ist es ja so, dass wir in Dilemmafragen und deren Lösungen normalerweise nicht wirklich gut sind und dann gleich ins Streiten kommen. Was aber dann niemanden wirklich nützt. siehe hier, hier, und hier(siehe Artikel “QI-Spammer?”)..
- Ein darauffolgender Vorwurf, dass sich der Uwe wie ein Platzhirsch verhält, den finde ich jetzt nicht. Es war jedenfalls ziemlich unappetitlihc und unnötig, meiner Meinung nach. Aber auch Teil des vorhandenen gegenseitigen Missverständnissses zwischen den Artikelschreibern und den Fotografen. --Hubertl 17:50, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Nein. Ich beobachte weder den IRC, noch die Mailinglisten, noch die Intrigen aus der deutschen Wikipedia. Habe ich was verpasst? --A.Savin 17:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Mit anderen Worten: Du weißt nicht, warum Uwe das macht? Stimmt das, A.Savin?? Ich frage nur mal nach, damit man, falls es sich hier in dieser Diskussion um ein Missverständnis mangels Information handelt, dieses zuvor löst. Vielleicht findest du dazu dann eine Lösung. Oder kannst diese Vorgangsweise akzeptieren. Das setzt aber voraus, dass @Cccefalon: die Sache noch einmal aufs Tapet bringt. --Hubertl 17:20, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Eigentlich wollte ich das Thema nicht nochmal hochkochen. Ich hab meinen Platz in QIC für diejenigen freigemacht, denen ich im Weg war. Ich kann gut ohne QIC leben. Ich bin aber trotzdem der Meinung, dass ich in der Lage bin, Photos zu machen, die den höchsten Qualitätsansprüchen genügen. Für diese Bilder beanspruche ich selbstverständlich, dass es Qualitätsbilder sind - wenngleich auch keine, die an QIC teilgenommen haben. Diese werde ich auch zukünftig mit dem QIself-Template versehen und in meine Userkategorien einsortieren. Sollte sich auf QIC eine Mehrheit finden, die das unlauter findet, dann kann man nochmal mit mir darüber reden. Allerdings möchte ich nochmal klar herausheben, dass ich durch die Userkategorien mir weder Lorbeeren anhefte (meine Name ist seit den Vorwürfen nicht mehr in der Rankingliste enthalten) noch wird diese Userkategorie zu Verwechslungen führen, da 1) die QIC-Bilder mit dem grünen QI-Label versehen sind und 2) die Funktion "good pictures" lediglich QIC-gelabelte Bilder anzeigt und 3) sich sowieso niemand freiwillig so tief in den Dateibaum verirrt, dass er davon irritiert wird. Mehr gibt es dazu meiner Meinung nach auf meiner Talkpage nicht zu sagen; wenn es unbedingt sein muss, dann bitte ich darum, auf dem QIC talk weiter zu diskutieren. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 18:08, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Category Quality images Userkategorie "Quality images by User:Cccefalon"
Zahlreiche Uploads von dir enthalten Kategorien "QI", obwohl sie keine sind. Warum? Ich habe keine Zeit, die alle rauszusuchen und zu entfernen; tust du das bitte selbst? Danke. --A.Savin 15:38, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Bitte genau hinschauen, es handelt sich um user categories. Da gibts von Deiner Seite nichts rauszusuchen und zu entfernen. Falls Du allerdings ein Photo findest wo z.B zu Unrechrt Category:Quality images of Sweden draufsteht, darfst Du m ich gerne darauf hinweisen. Danke. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:00, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- P.S. Beim Bild von der Handwerkskammer ist allerdings ein copy&paste Fehler unterlaufen, der muss natürlich raus.--CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:02, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Ja und nein: Quality images by country -> Q.I. of Sweden -> Q.I. of Sweden by user -> Q.I. of Sweden by Ccccefalon. Die letztere sollte also schon nicht ohne Review rein. --A.Savin 16:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Dann in dubio pro reo. Du kannst die Bilder aber gerne auf QIC einstellen, wenn Dir das weiterhilft. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:08, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- A.Savin:Warum Cccefalon das überhaupt macht, das ist dir aber schon klar? Mobbing bis in Wikipedia rein, inklusive Kurier-Artikel. Nur weil er angemerkt hat, dass man in QI nicht einfach seine Bilder abladen sollte wie auf einer Müllkippe, nur weil grad irgend ein WikiLovesxxx fertig ist. Ich kann mich nämlich nicht erinnern, dass sich irgendwer an der Diskussion beteiligt hätte. Na ja, ich hab meinen Senf dazugegeben. Aber in WP war mir das dann auch ziemlich wumpe. --Hubertl 16:10, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Dann in dubio pro reo. Du kannst die Bilder aber gerne auf QIC einstellen, wenn Dir das weiterhilft. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:08, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Ja und nein: Quality images by country -> Q.I. of Sweden -> Q.I. of Sweden by user -> Q.I. of Sweden by Ccccefalon. Die letztere sollte also schon nicht ohne Review rein. --A.Savin 16:05, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Da ich die letzten beiden Repliken nicht so wirklich verstanden habe, kommentiere ich die mal nicht und hier noch einmal meine Bitte (an dich, Cccefalon, wohlgemerkt). Bitte entferne die zu Unrecht eingefügten "QI by country" Kategorien, solange die Fotos noch nicht das Review passiert haben. Und reverte bitte nicht, wenn ich das in gutem Glauben mache, damit die Anzahlen der QI nach Land nicht verfälscht werden. --A.Savin 16:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Doch ich werde das revertieren. Userkategorie ist Userkategorie. Damit machst Du einen tiefen Eingriff in die Regeln von Commons. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:23, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Noch einmal: Was sagst du dazu, dass deine "Userkategorie" in einer normalen Projektkategorie drin ist? Also, nach meinem Verständnis (und ich bin schon was länger hier unterwegs) ist es so: "reine" Userkategorie = kannst du nennen wie du willst (solange nicht gegen die guten Sitten verstoßend) und so viele deiner Fotos reintun wie du willst. "Gemischte" User- und Projektkategorie wie hier offenbar der Fall: Kannst neennen wie du willst (s.o.), sollte aber auch nicht dem Rahmen der drüber stehenden Projektkategorie widersprechen. Ansonsten können User, die über die Projektkategorie hierher gelangen, in die Irre geführt werden. Die Logik sollte doch klar sein? Oder ist dein urplötzlich aus dem Nichts kommendes Platzhirschgehabe gar ein Selbstzweck? --A.Savin 16:35, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Definiere "Platzhirschgehabe". Wie kann jemand Platzhirsch sein, der einigermassen zurückgezogen arbeitet? Der einzige, der mich hier ans Licht zerren will,bist doch DU ... --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:37, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Ein durch QIC bewertetes Bild wird durch das QIC-Label markiert, nicht durch eine Userkategorie. Da ist nichts irreführendes. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:43, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Noch einmal: Was sagst du dazu, dass deine "Userkategorie" in einer normalen Projektkategorie drin ist? Also, nach meinem Verständnis (und ich bin schon was länger hier unterwegs) ist es so: "reine" Userkategorie = kannst du nennen wie du willst (solange nicht gegen die guten Sitten verstoßend) und so viele deiner Fotos reintun wie du willst. "Gemischte" User- und Projektkategorie wie hier offenbar der Fall: Kannst neennen wie du willst (s.o.), sollte aber auch nicht dem Rahmen der drüber stehenden Projektkategorie widersprechen. Ansonsten können User, die über die Projektkategorie hierher gelangen, in die Irre geführt werden. Die Logik sollte doch klar sein? Oder ist dein urplötzlich aus dem Nichts kommendes Platzhirschgehabe gar ein Selbstzweck? --A.Savin 16:35, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Doch ich werde das revertieren. Userkategorie ist Userkategorie. Damit machst Du einen tiefen Eingriff in die Regeln von Commons. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:23, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Noch einmal: Was sagst du dazu, dass deine "Userkategorie" in einer normalen Projektkategorie drin ist? Also, nach meinem Verständnis (und ich bin schon was länger hier unterwegs) ist es so: "reine" Userkategorie = kannst du nennen wie du willst (solange nicht gegen die guten Sitten verstoßend) und so viele deiner Fotos reintun wie du willst. "Gemischte" User- und Projektkategorie wie hier offenbar der Fall: Kannst neennen wie du willst (s.o.), sollte aber auch nicht dem Rahmen der drüber stehenden Projektkategorie widersprechen. Ansonsten können User, die über die Projektkategorie hierher gelangen, in die Irre geführt werden. Die Logik sollte doch klar sein? --A.Savin 16:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Du wiederholst Dich. Es steht Dir aber frei, eine Änderung der QIC-Regeln herbeizuführen, die den Begriff "Qualitätsbild" allein für QIC reklamiert. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:46, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Noch einmal: Was sagst du dazu, dass deine "Userkategorie" in einer normalen Projektkategorie drin ist? Also, nach meinem Verständnis (und ich bin schon was länger hier unterwegs) ist es so: "reine" Userkategorie = kannst du nennen wie du willst (solange nicht gegen die guten Sitten verstoßend) und so viele deiner Fotos reintun wie du willst. "Gemischte" User- und Projektkategorie wie hier offenbar der Fall: Kannst neennen wie du willst (s.o.), sollte aber auch nicht dem Rahmen der drüber stehenden Projektkategorie widersprechen. Ansonsten können User, die über die Projektkategorie hierher gelangen, in die Irre geführt werden. Die Logik sollte doch klar sein? --A.Savin 16:44, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Statt Dich hier aufzuspielen, kannst Du das Thema ja im QIC talk diskutieren und sehen, ob sich dort eine breite Mehrheit findet, die Deine Sicht der Dinge auch so sieht. Meine Userkategorien einfach löschen, davon würde ich Dir strikt abraten ... --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:52, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Na mit deinem Umgangston ist es eher an der Zeit, das auf COM:ANU zu melden. Woher diese Aggressivität kommt, bleibt wohl ein Rätsel. --A.Savin 16:56, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Dass Du auf sachliche Vorschläge nicht eingehst, wundert micht nicht. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:58, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Hast ja auch nichts vorgeschlagen, nur stumpf revertet. --A.Savin 17:04, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Doch, hab ich: Ich schlug vor, dass Du das auf QIC talk diskutieren lässt und eine Mehrheit für Deine Sicht der Dinge suchst. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 17:20, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Hast ja auch nichts vorgeschlagen, nur stumpf revertet. --A.Savin 17:04, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Dass Du auf sachliche Vorschläge nicht eingehst, wundert micht nicht. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 16:58, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
@A.Savin: Hieltest du es nicht für angebrachter, die Situation nicht gleich eskalieren zu lassen. Im Endeffekt müssen wir uns schon klar sein, dass wir im selben Boot sitzen. Ich kann deinen Einwand verstehen, ich kann aber auch Uwes Reaktion nachvollziehen. Was können wir tun, damit Leute, die sich wirklich aktiv und konstruktiv um QI bemühen bzw. bemüht haben, nicht von - ich sags mal, wenn auch ungern, weils nicht wirklich stimmt - "Aussenstehenden" derartig runtergemacht werden. Ich denke, dass es der völlig falsche Weg ist, nun dem Uwe den Weg zu nehmen, wie er es für sich und seiner Mitarbeit in Wikimedia halten will. Nachdem was passiert ist. Es gab damals, als sich Atamari deswegen beschwerte, niemanden außer mir, der bereit gewesen wäre, sich diese Sache überhaupt anzuhören. Und es betrifft alle, welche in QI und FP mitmachen. Wir haben genug Schönwetterabstimmer! Wenn die Kritiker nicht unterstützt werden, dann kann QI wirklich nur noch als Abnickverein verstanden werden. Damit tritt dann genau das ein, was völlig zu Unrecht unterstellt wurde, dass QI nämlich tot wäre. Das sagen Leute, die vielleicht 50 Nominierungen haben in 5 Jahren. Und die dann beleidigt sind, dass nicht alle 50 enthusiastisch-orgiastisch gefeiert wurden. --Hubertl 17:10, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Was soll an meinem Einwand, dass Fotos erst nach erfolgreichem Review in QI-Kategorien einzusortieren sind, so dramatisch sein bzw. wieso sollte es Uwe davon abhalten, hier mitzumachen? --A.Savin 17:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Mit anderen Worten: Du weißt nicht, warum Uwe das macht? Stimmt das, A.Savin?? Ich frage nur mal nach, damit man, falls es sich hier in dieser Diskussion um ein Missverständnis mangels Information handelt, dieses zuvor löst. Vielleicht findest du dazu dann eine Lösung. Oder kannst diese Vorgangsweise akzeptieren. Das setzt aber voraus, dass @Cccefalon: die Sache noch einmal aufs Tapet bringt. --Hubertl 17:20, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Nein. Ich beobachte weder den IRC, noch die Mailinglisten, noch die Intrigen aus der deutschen Wikipedia. Habe ich was verpasst? --A.Savin 17:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Ich fürchte, dass du was verpasst hast. Nicht weil es etwas großartiges gewesen wäre, es war Teil des ziemlich untauglichen Versuches, die Anforderungen, welche von der Foundation über WMDE (oder AT ,aber da hamma weniger Diskrepanzen) bzgl. der Klassifizierung von Bilderprojekten (Bitte viele QIs abliefern) vorgegeben werden, umzusetzen.
- Auf der einen Seite muss man das Engagement der Kollegen bewundern, welche stellvertretend Bilder nominieren, auf der anderen Seite ist damit auch die Gefahr gegeben, dass das Niveau absinkt, weil bei einem Einspruch der Nominierer blöd dasteht und keine Möglichkeit hat, an die Raw Bilder zu kommen um irgendwas zu verbessern. Es ist ein kaum lösbares Dilemma.
- Leider ist es ja so, dass wir in Dilemmafragen und deren Lösungen normalerweise nicht wirklich gut sind und dann gleich ins Streiten kommen. Was aber dann niemanden wirklich nützt. siehe hier, hier, und hier(siehe Artikel “QI-Spammer?”)..
- Ein darauffolgender Vorwurf, dass sich der Uwe wie ein Platzhirsch verhält, den finde ich jetzt nicht. Es war jedenfalls ziemlich unappetitlihc und unnötig, meiner Meinung nach. Aber auch Teil des vorhandenen gegenseitigen Missverständnissses zwischen den Artikelschreibern und den Fotografen. --Hubertl 17:50, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Nein. Ich beobachte weder den IRC, noch die Mailinglisten, noch die Intrigen aus der deutschen Wikipedia. Habe ich was verpasst? --A.Savin 17:25, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
- Mit anderen Worten: Du weißt nicht, warum Uwe das macht? Stimmt das, A.Savin?? Ich frage nur mal nach, damit man, falls es sich hier in dieser Diskussion um ein Missverständnis mangels Information handelt, dieses zuvor löst. Vielleicht findest du dazu dann eine Lösung. Oder kannst diese Vorgangsweise akzeptieren. Das setzt aber voraus, dass @Cccefalon: die Sache noch einmal aufs Tapet bringt. --Hubertl 17:20, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Eigentlich wollte ich das Thema nicht nochmal hochkochen. Ich hab meinen Platz in QIC für diejenigen freigemacht, denen ich im Weg war. Ich kann gut ohne QIC leben. Ich bin aber trotzdem der Meinung, dass ich in der Lage bin, Photos zu machen, die den höchsten Qualitätsansprüchen genügen. Für diese Bilder beanspruche ich selbstverständlich, dass es Qualitätsbilder sind - wenngleich auch keine, die an QIC teilgenommen haben. Diese werde ich auch zukünftig mit dem QIself-Template versehen und in meine Userkategorien einsortieren. Sollte sich auf QIC eine Mehrheit finden, die das unlauter findet, dann kann man nochmal mit mir darüber reden. Allerdings möchte ich nochmal klar herausheben, dass ich durch die Userkategorien mir weder Lorbeeren anhefte (meine Name ist seit den Vorwürfen nicht mehr in der Rankingliste enthalten) noch wird diese Userkategorie zu Verwechslungen führen, da 1) die QIC-Bilder mit dem grünen QI-Label versehen sind und 2) die Funktion "good pictures" lediglich QIC-gelabelte Bilder anzeigt und 3) sich sowieso niemand freiwillig so tief in den Dateibaum verirrt, dass er davon irritiert wird. Mehr gibt es dazu meiner Meinung nach auf meiner Talkpage nicht zu sagen; wenn es unbedingt sein muss, dann bitte ich darum, auf dem QIC talk weiter zu diskutieren. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 18:08, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Photo Challenge Winner | |
Congratulations!
Your picture Hong Kong China Water-supply-01.jpg won the 1st place in the Photo Challenge Water Supply Infrastructure, in October 2016. You can find the results of the challenge here. |