Metaplace.com closing
Today we announced that the consumer-facing Metaplace service, the one you all know as the user-generated worlds website at Metaplace.com, is closing on January 1st. There’s a FAQ and an official letter on the site.
The reason? Well, it just hasn’t gotten traction. I have many thoughts on why, but I hope you’ll forgive me if I don’t go into all of them right now. It is a sad day for us here, and I know many users are going to be very disappointed by this turn of events.
Metaplace Inc isn’t going away – in fact, we have some pretty exciting plans. But those plans are best shared on a future day.
If we have to sunset the service, we want to do it right. So for the next two weeks – come visit, and enjoy and celebrate all of the amazing creativity and work users put into their worlds. We’re providing a way for users to grab the data that makes up their worlds. We’ll be opening a website for the community so that you don’t lose touch with your Metaplace friends. And we’ll have a big party on the last day – because Metaplace.com will not go quietly, but with the sound of meeps and music and laughter.
It was a wonderful world full of wonderful people, and I will miss it more than I can say.
100 Responses to “Metaplace.com closing”
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[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Raph Koster, KoreenOlbrish and Blake Rebouche, Roddy. Roddy said: RT @raphkoster New blog post: Metaplace.com closing https://www.raphkoster.com/2009/12/21/metaplace-com-closing/ (sad day. Sorry Raph.) […]
Best of luck, Raph.
Was just going through my mails and saw the newsletter and headed straight here. This is sad news but I wish you all the best with your new plans.
Argh!
Really sorry to hear this, Raph. Obviously there were unknowns to be overcome like any innovative new business, but that didn’t stop me from believing – like many – that it would succeed. I’m really down to hear this news.
However, I’m sure you’ve got some great plans going forward and I’m eager to hear how the learnings get applied. I’ll of course follow closely, hoping to glean some of the knowledge that comes in the wake of metaplace.com’s closing.
Hope to talk to you soon. Until then, congrats on taking a bold risk, blazing new ground, and believing in something new and daring. I suspect you were just ahead of your time. 🙂
Adrian
Sorry to hear Raph. I know you were very excited about the project and it’s a shame that it didn’t take off like you hoped.
If you need anything, you know how to reach me.
Take care. There will be other opportunities.
It was a wonderful contribution to the online space that will break ground for UGC worlds of the future. I was stunned when I saw the closing notice. Best to you and your team.
I’m very sad to hear this, I was able to postpone my mourning of the demise of The Sims Online because of Metaplace appearing, and now I have to mourn the passing of two worlds.
I know how much you have literally poured your heart and soul into this. I hope there will be a business application you can use this for.
I feel somehow to blame. Metaplace didn’t get traction with me and I’m not sure why, because I like you, I liked the world, and 2.D doesn’t bother me. I can only say it was harder to work the controls than I had expected but maybe I didn’t try hard enough.
I hope eventually you will explore out loud the traction issue.
The cause of UGC has taken a very big hit today, I hope not a mortal blow : (
It was a very good idea, and I wish it had worked. I even paid for a subscription that I didn’t really use because I wanted to support it.
But everything was always about creating your own world and ultimately, why would I want to do that when it will be just lost in the mix of thousands of others?
It’s strange – I hoped that Raph, of all people, could solve that problem, since he wrote so well about it in his lectures on traditional MMOs. I’m sad to see not.
Hi Raph,
Yes, I am very saddened too, but thankful that the spirit of Metaplace will continue. I so totally believe in the power of this kind of virtual world and so if there is any way that my experience as an educator who loves working with young teens can be of value to you in your next venture, please let me know. I wrote an email to you just this morning about the plans I had to bring educators from SL to visit because I believe in what you have done with Metaplace so completely.
I look forward to learning of your next venture as I know it will be a place that is good for kids and their creativity and carries the heart you have created in Metaplace into what ever realm you design.
Best wishes for your next wonderful virtual world,
Mimi
I’m so sorry to hear that. I’d hoped it would take the world by storm, inch by inch.
Ugh. That bites. 🙁
Depending on who got let go, there are openings in the social gaming companies up here in the bay area.
Gimme a call when you want to talk about the future.
Randy
Dang… That really sucks. 🙁
Very sad.
Feeling even more guilty now for not having the time this past year to really get working on a heap of stuff in Metaplace like I had planned to.
Bummer.
Hope the future holds better success for your ventures…
Raph, I’m so sorry. Looking forward to hearing what’s next for you–I’m sure it will be exciting and great.
Dang. Dang dang dang. Dagnabbit and goshdarn. Bother.
Or, as another mutual friend would put it, “Oh no, another learning experience.”
Give us a ring if you want to conspire.
Chip
I’m sorry to hear that “Plan A” has not panned out. The idea had potential to be an incubator to nurture and bring talent into the industry.
I look forward to hearing what new path Metaplace, Inc. will be taking.
I’m too had hoped that Metaplace would succeed where Skotos failed as an incubator of new games written by users. At some point I’d love to compare and contrast the differences between the two models to see if there are things in common with both that made them not work.
Keep us informed as to where you are going with the technology in the future — I suspect it can still be powerful tool for creation of games that are somewhere between the big titles and the casual titles.
If there’s such a thing as a good failure, I’d venture Metaplace is a good example. There was plenty that was right about Metaplace. So while I’m bummed things didn’t turn out as you’d hoped, I do look forward to what you have planned for the future.
Best of luck.
Raph, my condolences. Like some folks above, I fully appreciate the difficult journey you’ve been on and the challenges of that road. It takes tremendous bravery to shut down something with so much love and hard work invested and take the company in a new direction. Good luck with the next chapter!
I’ve very sad to see the Metaplace service go down. I feel guilty that I didn’t spend more time there in the past year – I have missed the people and the connection that comes from making exciting things with people who are as passionate about creating and about the possibilities as I am. I know that even though the service dies, the people go on, but MP provided a great gathering place to hang out and create.
I, too, would love to hear a postmortem. I know that when the time comes, you will write about it at length and in ways that will lead us to understand why this happened and what it means not only for Metaplace itself, but the wider world of gaming and understanding people.
This will succeed, someday. This is the first failure, but vision and persistence will eventually win out.
Thanks for the kind words everyone. I do indeed plan to write about it in more detail… just… not today.
Raph, thank you. I’m sorry Metaplace didn’t click, but thank you for caring enough to give it a shot.
so weird. i had a strange compulsion to sit down and make my first real metaplace last night, which i did until early this morning. [/cue spooky rising theramin]
looking forward to catching up. you know i say this with a smile, but if i see metaplace come back as a regular sort of mafia game on facebook i’ma smack you. feel good, man. you should. sometimes the plinko chips just swerve to the right.
Ralph, you had built a fine community at Metaplace. I’ll be interested to see what you do next. I’m sure it will be visionary and very worthy of consideration.
It would be nice to be able to read the official letter and FAQ without having to register. Will that be possible?
[…] thankful that I’m not having to write a blog post like Raph’s today, announcing that Metaplace.com is closing. It’s extraordinarily brave to shut down something that’s had so much love and work […]
I received the email today. I’m sorry to hear it, Raph.
I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas.
-Janey.
My condolences as well, Raph. Anyone who’s been through this part of the life of a startup knows how hard it is, and my thoughts are with you and your team. As tough as it is, I’m glad to see you doing this right (and would have expected no less).
I look forward to hearing about what’s next for you, and for Metaplace as a company. But as you say, that’s for another day.
Sorry to hear, best wishes with the new direction.
Sigh.
So many times I have touted Metaplace as an example of *doing it right.* I will do in the future (no chance somebody can snapshot this whole thing for posterity so I can show it off?)
Best of luck man. I hope the new strategy works out for you.
-Tony
Just saw the news about this. Very sorry to hear it Raph. I know how hard you and the rest of your team worked to make this happen, and I had hoped it would pick up better than it did. Looking forward to seeing what’s next and best of luck to everyone there.
I’d just like to add my voice to those of everyone else commiserating with you and the Metaplace team. I’ve just spent a term using Metaplace to teach basic MMO concepts and Lua to my final-year students; it was such a delight that it never even occurred to me that it was going to close soon. I surmise that its problem wasn’t so much lack of traction as not getting traction quickly enough.
Oh well, I guess I’d better get in there and spend those 250,000 coins I somehow acquired.
Richard
Don’t let this set back get you down, there is no victory without risk.
Ag! But you were just getting started…! Oh closing something when you haven’t quite seen it through, grr. But I agree with all the learning sentiments: there’s no such thing as a successful entrepreneur who’s not seen a setback or two, right?
Also very looking forward to Metaplace mk II and where you take it, Raph, you’re a brilliant man. I’ve seen a few companies recently change direction mid-oeuvre; it’s odd times we’re going through, that’s for sure.
Many hugs!
A.
Really sad to read about this. Condolences to you and the rest of the team, and best of luck with the next thing!
This is very sad news indeed 🙁 Metaplace provided a proper model of how worlds and places could be created and work with the rest of the web. I am sure it will be back in some form. I will just have to go back to recommending your brilliant “Theory of Fun” book without the site to point people to see for themselves some of what you have shared to eloquently with us all. You know we all have yours and the teams back in whatever comes next.
sorry to hear that Raph. Best of luck with the next venture.
Very sorry to hear this Raph, but I imagine you learned quite a bit for the next big play!
Hey Raph, surprised to hear you didn’t have a big hit with Metaplace – I always figured between you & me that you were the one who’d keep making a bigger splash by having more horse sense about business models, PR, and other things I don’t work hard enough at. I’m sure your next move will be innovative again & something everyone should be watching. And like the other folks say, if you want to conspire, give me a call! Happy Holidays & Best wishes to your whole family.
i’m sorry for you and the team. i can imagine how much work and life time of you and all team members went into this. i hope you can enjoy the christmas days to come.
cheers,
alexander
I’m very sorry to hear that, and also feeling a little daft for having said for so long that I ought to get in there and make something of my world. I do feel like the movement for user-generated content and non-game virtual worlds has lost a leader with this project ending, although I’m sure that the the Inc. hasn’t given up on it.
All the best for whatever comes next. (And find somewhere else to do the concerts, OK? 😉
Oof, Raph, really sorry to hear 🙁 You guys were doing some fascinating stuff with that space and I certainly enjoyed making the little world I did there. All my best to you and your team. As always, can’t wait to hear what you’ll be up to next.
I’m sure there are plenty of rational reasons to close Metaplace but today I just want to say: sorry, Raph, and thanks for trying. Best of luck with the next thing.
You did good work and I look forward to your next project.
Raph, let me throw in with the other 39 posters in expressing my sorrow at the passing of Metaplace. Be sure to archive it properly in preparation for the macro-economic turnaround, and when a broader slice of the population understands the awesome tools you created for them!
[…] incredible saddened that Metaplace is closing, and on the heels of news that Forterra has also been struggling and is looking to sell off its […]
With so many VW start-ups or initiatives suffering from a bit of boring sameness, Metaplace was something unique, innovative and disruptive. I’m very curious to see what’s next and look forward to a longer post about why Metaplace.com was unable to get the kind of traction you were expecting. Good luck.
[…] new here, you might want to subscribe to the RSS feed for updates on this topic.We liked metaplace. We are sorry to hear it’s going to pass into the pages of game history. What we are even more sorry to hear is […]
Rats!
I am going to miss this place. I was hoping it was an entry into the larger world of games, and in a sense, it was. Metaplace taught me to appreciate games and virtual worlds, and has garnered me some decent contacts. Make sure to keep me updated, Raph, about your next big move. For the sake of the future of Ray’s unborn child, remember? Baby’s due in June. 🙂 Thanks for the good times.
[…] Raph’s blog https://www.raphkoster.com/2009/12/21/metaplace-com-closing/ […]
What a shame. I’ll look forward to your next steps, for sure.
To me, the initial pitch of Metaplace *seemed* to be (to quote from Ratatouille) “Anyone can cook.” But the fact of the matter is, not everyone can.
I think a lot of people expected to be able to translate the ideas in their heads into something on the screen that matches what it it looks like in their heads. By themselves, without any sort of collaboration. In reality, though, the tools (at least early on) were challenging to learn – daunting enough to discourage a lot of people right off the bat.
To be fair, though, the only way anyone is going to pull off the “ideal” is by developing a system that builds the world for you based off of the simple, plain-language descriptions you give it. (And, I mean, even simpler than Metaplace already is.)
The art will have to be “automatic”. I don’t think many people would be satisfied with their creations if the art assets don’t match pretty closely what they’re used to in commercially developed games.
Raph, We at Global Kids and RezEd were so sorry to hear. We had such plans for you in 2010, including a January program for youth in jails to connect and explore issues together within Metaplace. 🙁 We look forward to hearing what comes next and how educators and those interested in learning can participate. Thank you for dreaming big and challenging us all to catch up.
Sorry to hear.. I confess that i didn’t like metaplace, actually i dont like any mmo since 11/2005 but it is really sad a creative work like this ends very soon. Hope you will make a 3d sandbox mmo without elfs.orcs very soon with big financial support from a big company.
Respect to Raph from Turkey
[…] Raph’s blog https://www.raphkoster.com/2009/12/21/metaplace-com-closing/ […]
Sorry to hear that Ralph 🙁 Best wishes and condolences.
Too sad, man.
You’ll of course be fine, but it’s always painful to see projects that passionate people have … well, had a passion for, go do the drain.
Good luck on the next steps, I can’t imagine that you don’t have something nice and big up your sleeve.
d.
Please add me to the long list of people sad to see Metaplace go, and wishing you the best. On the brighter side, I can’t wait to see where Raph takes us next.
Ralph, you did an incredible job. I was so thoroughly impressed with Metaplace. I can’t believe it hasn’t taken off. Remember, many of the greatest novels and films ever made didn’t gain traction until years (or decades) after they were released. I think Metaplace falls in that glorious category!
Sincerely,
Captain Hoff
Raph, you are quickly becoming the John Romero of the online world…
Just saw this on Lum’s site. My condolences, dude. 🙁
You know, John Romero has been known to stop by the blog. 🙂
Really sorry to hear that. I’m still a big fan and rooting for you. I know you don’t feel like self evaluating today, but maybe you will come back and read this in a week so I’ll post it now.
I played a few user generated worlds/games and they reminded me of…well…1980 and “Asteroids”. And I thought to myself, self, you could spend 100 hours and your game would probably not be nearly as good as this half ass attempt to rip off Asteroids from the 80s. So I just never bothered trying.
I suggest you consider another huge MMO project. God knows we need a good one.
The sad reality of life is that no matter how hard you try or how good the work is failure is still an option. Some amazingly good work went into Metaplace and obviously the effort was more than there. Everyone should walk away from this project with their heads up high because this result is not an indicator of the great work done. This should be a proud moment even if the resumes are having to be sent out.
I am sorry to hear this was the end result however. Metaplace would have been a great addition to the internet culture. Best wishes and a lot of luck on the next endeavor.
That is a disappointment. Everyone has already said everything I’d think to; I had hoped to be able to use it as a client front-end someday, but my own project tanked in the meantime, so I was never able to really explore the possibility. The mischievious side of me wonders whether or not someone will put up an Anatevka world.
Looking forward to your future. o7
Like you, Raph, I have my own thoughts about why the platform wasn’t adopted by a critical mass, but I’ll wait for your post before I comment.
My condolences, Raph.
Now I’m curious as to what Whirled will wind up doing. I know, it’s not the same thing, but it seems that there are some similarities that might prove troublesome to the intrepid Three Ringers.
Sorry to hear that Metaplace is closing, Raph. As you know, I’ve been through a similar situation in the past so I can imagine what it is like.
I was hoping the Facebook crowd building elaborate farms in Farmville would want to take their user created content to the level in a Facebook version of Metaplace.
Good luck in your next adventure! And good luck to all the Metaplace staff too.
I suspect one of the major reasons we’re seeing these virtual venues fail is three fold. One, not enough objective media coverage. When all the suits, professors and users hear about is the one 800 lb. elephant, then they think that’s all there is out there. And, unfortunately the last few years have not usually including many words of praise. That makes it nearly impossible for a startup that could really help propell the industry forward, get stuck in the back of the room, jumping up and down to be seen and heard.
The second reason is related to our interaction with the media groups. We as a community need to start questioning the media that covers this industry and asking them why they aren’t covering the many other venues out there. Truth is, any success by any party helps all of us. It brings attention to the fact that there is indeed an industry to be called upon. Companies and business users worry about being trapped into a dead end when they all they see and hear about is one company. They fear putting all their eggs in one basket and it suddenly dumping them without notice and no way to move their interests to a new venue.
The third reason is that we are all so very loyal to our virtual home bases. Usually that’s a good thing, but in this case it just succeeds in drawing attention to a lot of negative talk, which gets us no where as an industry. We need to see beyond our own egocentric perspectives and recognize all the players in our industry. After all, one company can’t own the 3D Web, nor can they service all the world’s needs. Example: SpotON3D is set primarily for business users, SL(tm) is a great place to hang out and socialize on a personal and professional level, New World grid has a thriving European population, and Reaction Grid is a great place for educational outfits, Forterra was an excellent option for heavy traffic use that our OpenSim venues could not match unless we broke them up into segments, and 3Di’s web viewer was a major break through. Still, the longest lasting note we hear is usually owned be the disenfranchised.
Most people checking out VW’s won’t care about who is doing the complaining or to whom they are mad at. They’ll just paint us all with the same broad stroke and write us off as a bitter drama filled community – that is, if by some miracle,they do become aware we’re even an option. We’ve got to stop wallowing in the mud and start talking about our goals for the 3D Web again. Its not about leaving anyone behind, but rather about evolving and moving forward to morph into something new and powerful as a community. If we don’t find a means to support each other and collaborate on some level, then I fear we’ll hear many more of these announcements.
Where the f* is the export function?
Where the f* is the export function?
Where the f* is the export function?
Where the f* is the export function?
Where the f* is the export function?
Where the f* is the export function?
I would like to read conclusions and lessons learned about why it didn’t work. I am interested in why people like to play games or enjoying events in virtual worlds online with other people but they don’t care really about if that other people are NPC or real ones.
Hey Raph,
Sorry to hear that this part of the dream is coming to an end. I can imagine that this is a very difficult decision for you to make.
Best of luck, I’m confident that what happens next will be great. Looking forward to seeing what you have cooking.
[…] iLike’s firesale to Myspace is one. Metaplace.com going away is arguably another, though Metaplace lives on as a company, at least for a while. Geocities counts […]
This is very disheartening, I was just getting into it now…
It only makes sense, from a user perspective, that we be able to host servers with our worlds ourselves to continue this on without worry of a single company closing up shop.
I look forward to hearing about your plans.
@Anonymous.
From the Faq:
“There are a couple ways to save any art objects that you uploaded. One is to find each one by hand and copy the URL and save it to your computer. In the tools if you go to Advanced -> Images there will be a full list of all images in your world including tiles. If you double click on an image, under where it says “sprite properties” there is an icon of a globe with an arrow. Clicking this will automatically copy the URL to your clipboard, so you can paste it in your web browser and save the image.”
Does that answer your question?
Hey Raph – I’m very sorry to hear this. I hope that Plan B preserves some of great capabilities and experiences that Metaplace offers creators and players. My condolences too – its hurts to shut down such a creative and social medium before it has a chance to grow into its full realization, before its audience discovers it. It was about a year ago that Lively.com shut down and while I’ve moved onto other exciting projects I am still a bit sad about scenes that vanished and possibilities that were lost. Its fun but tough to work on mediums that take time to reach their potential but the clock is ticking too fast.
🙁 This is too bad. You guys made a really good toolkit that was very easy to get started with, too.
I was really sad to hear about Metaplace closing. I had enjoyed my few trips there, and had really hoped to find the time to build in that world.
Best of luck with future plans. I am sure we’ll all be watching!
Sorry to hear it Raph, I liked the concept and was looking forward to it “opening”.
I think that was MP’s biggest problem right there. I spend a bit of time on various MMO sites, and I thought MP was still beta but was looking forward to what might come out of it. MP needed some sort of viral plan, or a “killer world” to kick things off. Heck, even “selling” it as an iPhone equivalent of PSN Home probably would have given it a high enough profile to “roll start” it 🙂
Anyway, best of luck and I hope you still manage to have a Merry Christmas!!
Ugh, sorry to see this happen in many ways. I had just started using Metaplace as a sweet prototyping tool for some new ideas. And when Raph does things I just naturally think, “Oh cool!” and stick around to see what happens. And I just hate to see any kind of startup stop.
I will say though that I never really got what “it” was about, at least through a developer’s eyes. First there was the unpronounceable name Aereae (or something like that). Then it was the vague (to me) talk about what it was going to be. Made me think of the press before the Segway came out.
Once “it” came out in Alpha/Beta, I found a great online world hosting and building package with potential. I thought, “OK here is a great thing for me to try some ideas out and maybe make something!” Coming back later to see how it had matured, I found many distracting (for a developer) consumerish things – coins, games, annoying announcements, etc. I guess I wasn’t looking for web based 2.5D SL, I was looking for a development environment. I was looking for Smart Fox Server that was hosted and had built in development tools.
Right now I’d love to see a developer-targeted version available for licensing. I’d ditch all the consumer and “cutesy” stuff that’s there to help non-developers create stuff and give them “aren’t we having fun in here?” experiences. Developers don’t need new hats or to visit a hair salon to change their looks. They need solid development tools. I’d pay for that.
The media seems to believe the future for monetization lies within the realm of readily accessible professionally produced digital media. UGC seems to continue to be a challenging area for business.
I hope you are able to take the platform you have already invested so much into, match it with your history of creative fun making and come out with a great game. Or, partner up with a few development studios and build a couple great worlds upon.
^ #73 – I agree 100%. A multi-user out of the box hosted development suite would be EXACTLY what I am looking for, new hats be darned.
Sorry that it didn’t work out. Good luck in your next project.
Sorry that it has turned out this way Raph, I really hope things go better in the future for you, I am a huge fan. I am excited to hear what you pursue next, and in a twisted way happy that your focus is changing because I personally never got deep into metaplace.
I’m so sad to hear this! The idea of Metaplace always sounded wonderful to me and I was looking forward to using it someday. Guess that won’t be happening now. 🙁
I hope someone else will be able to take up this banner, so to speak, even if they have to start from scratch under a different name.
[…] the few that might not have heard, Metaplace as we know it will shut down next week. As much as the news disappoints me, it seems likely that lots of entrepreneurial […]
[…] Metaplace is shutting down and I know this isn’t supposed to be the appropriate time to disassemble why, but I think that’s part of the point. Everyone has been too polite and reserved toward Raph Koster’s big project. The collective web has been a group of yes men on this one. There’s no grand conspiracy, just a lot of respect. Respect != Honesty. Of course, I’m just as culpable as the next fanbois. It’s too damn easy to critique after the fact, but better late than never. […]
That’s a real shame… but even while it must be closed, the lessons learned from its short existence have been very enlightening.
With the world of mass amateurization and social connectedness just coming into focus, I am absolutely certain that something like Metaplace will revolutionize the industry in the near future.
In a way, just being able to say “something like Metaplace” is a good thing. For without it, there would be nothing to spark similar innovations.
A happy and sad day this has been. Sad because a great idea must die, but happy because its concept will continue to spread.
[…] the Christmas holiday, I received a text message from twitter that declared Metaplace.com was closing. Frankly, I was shocked to see this news. Raph Koster’s a very well known […]
That’s why it is better for beginners to learn from those who have walked the path already, not those who have only theoretically walked the path whose knowledge consists of what “should” be.
[…] that Metaplace, the online world that was supposed to be the end-all, do-all of such things, is going to close for good on January 1, 2010. It’s a common story with MMO startups these days: developer has “revolutionary” […]
I am sorry to hear that. Hopefully some of the worlds will take root elsewhere.
[…] to meet and commune with others. This point is driven home with both the recent announcement of the closing of Metaplace and the Lab’s announcement of their new Linden Home […]
[…] down. Some may remember Google Lively died a year ago. More recently it’s been vSide, Metaplace, and now Project Wonderland. It really does seem to be the end of Virtual Worlds 1.0. I and a few […]
[…] In one of those “out of the blue” moments, Raph Koster has announced that Metaplace is going to shut down its virtual world environment. It’s a shocking turn of […]
[…] Virtual World 1.0 is shutting down. This time Raph Koster’s Metaplace.com. This after vSide shut down earlier in the year and Google Lively last year. Playing off of Web2.0 […]
[…] When Metaplace closed, Koster blogged: […]
[…] Life, los metaversos ¿se han convertido en desiertos virtuales? Varios proyectos como Vivaty , Metaplace, o el ambicioso mundo virtual accesible desde la Web e incluso animado, diseñado por Google, […]
[…] a compelling idea fall apart because the money wasn’t there. Something very similar happened to Metaplace and Faunasphere. It’s not just games; the WELL, paragon of elder days, had to be bought out by […]