Table of Contents
I Wanted to Make TV About Sex and Aging
I had heard that Jane and Lily wanted to do television again, and I’d assumed they meant together. I called my agent and asked, “Is this true?” She did some digging and eventually called me back. “They do now,” she said.
We created ‘Grace and Frankie’ in 2015 because we wanted to make something real about sex and sexuality at that age. Early in the process, when we were coming up with ideas, Jane was talking about how there are all kinds of ways to help men get an erection and mentioned something that’s injectable in the penis. Lily looks up and says, “You have got to get younger boyfriends.” I thought, ‘That’s it—that’s the show.’ ‘Grace and Frankie’ is a story about two women who don’t like each other very much but are forced to start over together when their husbands fall in love. It became so much more than that. When we wrapped the show in 2022 after seven seasons, it was Netflix’s longest-running series.
The media landscape for older women can be bleak: There’s not a lot out there, especially about women being sexual and discovering things past a certain point in their lives. On television and in the movies, older women are only seen as grandmothers or mothers of older kids—and they’re usually annoying. ‘Golden Girls’, of course, had a sexual character but it was more for the comedy of being over-sexual. It wasn’t real. I noticed it as I got older too: I was marginalized and not fully seen.
“On television and in the movies, older women are only seen as grandmothers or mothers of older kids—and they’re usually annoying.”
On ‘Grace and Frankie,’ it was important for us to show all the good, the bad, and the challenging parts of aging and sex. Look, I’m 67 years old. I’m no spring chicken. And Lily and Jane are in their 80s. We wanted to talk about dry vaginas and how it’s harder to have an orgasm and what it’s like to lose your pubic hair—the stuff nobody prepares you for. But it can also be this revelatory time in your life. When the show came out, we got a huge response. Women were eager to tell me about the eye-opening sexual experiences they were having in their 60s, 70s and beyond, which they hadn’t had in their previous long-term relationships. One woman said that the guy she’s with can’t really get an erection, so they do a lot of oral.
Everything on ‘Grace and Frankie’ was through the eyes of older women, so naturally, we developed a storyline about arthritis and masturbation, with Grace and Frankie founding a company that makes vibrators for older women. It starts off with Frankie learning that Grace doesn’t masturbate, and when she finally does try it, she hurts herself. A lot of women of a certain age don’t have companions or lovers anymore for many different reasons, so masturbation is essential. We wanted to say, “Look, this is great and there’s nothing shameful about it.” The other thing was…it was just very funny.
In another episode, Grace is embarrassed to have her younger boyfriend sleep over and see all of her. While they’re arguing, she strips off her makeup and hair extensions and shows him her cane (“You want me? Well, here I am”). It was an emotional scene to write and film—Jane bared her soul for it. But there’s something so powerful about saying, “This is me and this is all there is.” I deal with that a lot personally—not that I don’t want to change and continue to grow, but at a certain point, I do have to say, “This is my body, this is my face, this is my personality and my ethics.” And you either like it or you don’t.
Writing for these women and putting myself in these characters’ heads opened me up. At the time, I was going through a very sad separation that wasn’t my choice. I could identify with suddenly being single, just like Grace and Frankie when their husbands run off together. I had to write from their husbands’ perspectives too, so I really got to work some sh*t out.
“My daughter Hannah says her wish for me is that I’ll be able to get some good lays in before it’s too late.”
I’m single now, and there’s a large part of me that is okay with that. I don’t want to get married or live with anyone again. I have no desire to share a closet with someone. As a matter of fact, I had a phone call with a man who I was thinking about going on a date with, and he told me it’s a deal-breaker for him if a woman doesn’t want to live with a partner ever again. I said, “It was nice to meet you.” I find it fascinating that so many older women are saying, “I don’t need that! I don’t need to take care of someone. I want a relationship. I want companionship, but I don’t want a marriage.” My daughter Hannah says her wish for me is that I’ll be able to get some good lays in before it’s too late.
I want younger women to know that, yes, of course, sex changes as you go through life. When you’re younger, you f*ck. When you’re married, you make love. And then when you get older, it evolves again and the orgasm is less important than the physical contact. All of it is good. Just go for it, have fun, and make sure you’re getting what you want.
“There’s something so powerful about saying, ‘This is me and this is all there is.’”
Author headshot: Eric Charbonneau. All other images: Getty Images.
