Listen to Janny Scott discuss her biography A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama's Mother
Listen to Janny Scott discuss her biography A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama's Mother
Janny Scott discussing her book A Singular Woman: The Untold Story of Barack Obama's Mother (2011), touching on topics such as how the former president's parents met, the spurious “birther” claims about his country of origin, and his childhood experiences in Indonesia, among others.
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Transcript
[Music]
JANNY SCOTT: We've known so little about the president's mother. We know a lot—quite a lot—about his father, thanks to his book. But during the campaign, and even before that, the president's mother was always reduced to a series of rather useful stereotypes. She was simply the white woman from Kansas, always coupled to the black father from Kenya. She, during the campaign, was the single mother on food stamps or the cancer victim who died young, fighting with her insurance company. In his book she is the—the innocent abroad. So there's sort of a series of—of oversimplifications, which, I think, there's a little truth to all of those, but they obscure a much more complicated and interesting story. . . .
She really was thoroughly unconventional in the way she chose to live. She made some extraordinary decisions for a woman at that time or at—really, at any time: She chose to—she—she conceived a child and married an African at a time when nearly two dozen states had laws against interracial marriage; she took her child at age six abroad to Indonesia at a time when there was enormous social and political upheaval; she went on to become an anthropologist, working in small villages, specializing in a—in a handicraft that was entirely a male preserve. So there's something very unusual about this person, and I wanted to use in the title a word that conveyed that, conveyed her uniqueness without conveying also a judgment about her. I wanted a neutral term, and I think "A Singular Woman" tells you this is a very unusual person who's worth knowing about, but it doesn't tell you what you're supposed to think about her.
I think you have to look at why the president wrote that book in the first place—his—his memoir. It—the idea for it arose out of the moment when he had been elected the first black president of the "Harvard Law Review." And in the aftermath of that election, in 1990, there were a number of articles written about him—really the first extensive media coverage of Barack Obama—and a series of profiles that ran in major newspapers. And if you look at those articles, he begins to elaborate his life story, the story on which he subsequently based his introduction to the American public at the 2004 convention and then on which he—the life story he used in the 2008 campaign. And when he talks about his story in those early articles, you see, increasingly, an emphasis on his father. I think the book, in a way—because he was the first black president of the "Harvard Law Review"—was intended initially—the idea which came from a—from a—a—a agent actually—the idea was to talk about his—his racial history, his race identity, and his finding of his race identity. So, to some extent, he was telling the story of his coming to terms with the African/African American side of himself. So the emphasis was more on his father. That—that would be one interpretation you could offer. He does—you're right. Aft—that book came out in '95. In 2004, after the Democratic Convention speech, he—the book became very popular again and was republished with a new preface. And in that new preface he said, "Had I known my mother was gonna die,"—she died shortly after the—the book was published the first time—"Had I known she was gonna—gonna die, I might have written a different book, not a book about the absent parent but a book about the one who was the single constant in my life." And then two years after that, he goes back in the "Audacity of Hope" and describes her even more specifically, in terms of her influence on him, shaping his values and giving him the impetus really to go into public life. And then when I spoke to him, he spoke about her again along—on those terms. But he went even further, and he said, "She was . . ."—he described her as smart and sophisticated in her work, which is not something I had ever really heard him talk about. So, I think, for a combination of reasons, he started out thinking about his father and is increasingly thinking about his mother.
In her first few weeks at this—at the university as a 17-year-old freshman—she encountered Barack Obama, the first African student at the University of Hawaii and a Kenyan. He had arrived there actually a year earlier, not through the East-West Center but increasingly was wrapped up in that, you know, foreign-student ferment there. So she met him. He was extraordinarily charismatic. He had a fantastic voice, according to people who—who knew him, was quite brilliant, and she had some kind of cataclysmic encounter with him. She was pregnant by November—early November. She dropped out of school, they married quietly, and on August 4, 1961, Barack Obama the Younger was born in a hospital in Honolulu.
I do think that the evidence has been very clear for several years now, even before the release of the long-form birth certificate, that that's where he was born. The fact is the—the birth certificate that was released in 2008 by the campaign is the standard Hawaiian birth certificate. They do not issue, as a matter of course these days, the long, the quote long-form one. But—and that seemed to put the issue to rest for a while after the campaign was over, but then it resurfaced, precipitating the release by the president more recently. Whether it has put the issue to rest entirely, I think, tells—is a matter more for the people who make that argument—the birthers—than it is for the facts, because the facts have been out there. Not only was the birth certificate very clear-cut in 2008 and the long-form one simply supports that, as we all expected it would, but also there were announcements in the Honolulu papers within 10 days of the president's birth—announcements that were placed by the hospitals. You couldn't call the papers and put in an announcement yourself. The state-elected officials—Republicans and Democrats—had vouched for the veracity of the short-form, supposedly, birth certificate several years ago. So I think the material record is one thing, and then the opinion of people who choose to believe this—want to believe this for whatever reason—is something else.
He moved to Indonesia with his mother at the age of six. Indonesia is a very race-conscious society—Indonesians will tell you that—very conscious of the color of someone's skin. And there were very few Africans or African Americans or people of African descent in Jakarta at the time that the young Barack Obama lived there with his mother and stepfather. And I'm told that children teased him about it—it's—and—and even adults. I interviewed some people who worked with her in Jakarta in 1970—'69, '70—in that first period—the first four-year period she was living there, and they told me, very kind of sweetly and innocently, that—that she would bring her son to the office, and they would joke about his skin color and laugh at him. And I think he said, "Laugh at him." And I said, "Laugh at him or with him?" And—and he said, "Well, both." He said it as though, "Of course, that's—that's what we do here." So I think there was a certain amount of awareness of his skin color. Another fascinating incident, which was related to me by a—an American woman who was living in Djokjakarta in Indonesia at the time involved a lunch that she had with Ann Dunham and the young Barack Obama when he was nine. And they went out for a walk after lunch in the city of Djokjakarta. And, according to this woman, some Indonesian children ran alongside them and started to throw stones at the young Barack. And he just sort of jumped around and duck—play—sort of played dodgeball with the stones and, you know, just laughed. And—she said, "As though playing dodgeball with—with—with a hidden enemy, a hidden opponent"—and Ann said nothing—Ann Dunham, his mother. And the woman who was telling me this story was concerned, because she thought possibly Ann didn't know that these Indonesian children were yelling racial epithets at her son. And she—so she stepped forward to say, you know, "Should—do you understand what's being said? Should we—should I do something?" And Ann said, "No, no, he's used to it." And this woman's conclusion was that she was really—that she had decided to—that in order to raise her child in Indonesia, he needed to be fearless, and she was encouraging this kind of fearlessness.
In Indonesia many people pointed out to me that—particularly in Java—that there is a great value put on self-control, and to show your emotions is a—a sign of weakness, and that one of the ways this is inculcated in children is through this culture of teasing. And if you respond to the teasing and get rattled, you've lost. But if you laugh and act as though it hasn't happened, then you've—you come out on top. And in Indonesia many people think that some of the remarkable cool demeanor of the president, which Americans find somewhat baffling, is actually a Javanese trait that comes from him having spent four years there at a very critical period in his development. I think the main one that Americans would—would notice, and that was pointed out to me, was this notion of self-control and emotional restraint.
Ann Dunham was not a religious person in terms of an affiliation with a particular church or even a specific religion. But she has been described by many people who were close to her, including her son, as a very spiritual person. She was raised by—her parents had been raised in Baptist and Methodist families but I don't think were particularly church-oriented themselves. But as a teenager Ann went to an—the youth group of a Unitarian church in Bellevue, Washington, that had very liberal, progressive values and, I believe, played a role in shaping the anti-redlining law in King county, Washington, and—and things like that. So she had this exposure early on to that—to that training, if you want to call it that. They would—the youth group—would often go to synagogues and temples and other—the institutions of other religions—and sort of observe them and come back and talk about them. So they did a lot of comparative religion. Later on in her life, according to her daughter, she sort of—she impressed upon her children the importance of respecting that every religion has something to offer, and she was willing to kind of try out different ones, depending on where she was. So she would make offerings in Buddhist temples, and she meditated. Late in her life, a colleague of hers told me, he felt that she—he—she was moving toward a kind of deism or Uni—back to her Unitarian roots. So she was very spiritual, and yet she did not like the idea of excess ritual. So it's interesting—the—the president's choice to affiliate himself with a specific church in a—in a very public way. That might be another area in which he really chose the opposite.
When I interviewed President Obama, he told me that his mother took her job as mother very seriously, and that's absolutely true. She went way out of her way to impress certain values on her children: the importance of hard work and caring about their education, the importance of humility and not being arrogant, and the importance of, really, that—that the highest value in life is to do something for other people. And that is the way she chose to live her life. And I think the president, too, is—is—is a remarkable example of that—a person who says that those values informed his decision to go into public life and to become a public servant and ultimately his—his work as president.
[Music]
JANNY SCOTT: We've known so little about the president's mother. We know a lot—quite a lot—about his father, thanks to his book. But during the campaign, and even before that, the president's mother was always reduced to a series of rather useful stereotypes. She was simply the white woman from Kansas, always coupled to the black father from Kenya. She, during the campaign, was the single mother on food stamps or the cancer victim who died young, fighting with her insurance company. In his book she is the—the innocent abroad. So there's sort of a series of—of oversimplifications, which, I think, there's a little truth to all of those, but they obscure a much more complicated and interesting story. . . .
She really was thoroughly unconventional in the way she chose to live. She made some extraordinary decisions for a woman at that time or at—really, at any time: She chose to—she—she conceived a child and married an African at a time when nearly two dozen states had laws against interracial marriage; she took her child at age six abroad to Indonesia at a time when there was enormous social and political upheaval; she went on to become an anthropologist, working in small villages, specializing in a—in a handicraft that was entirely a male preserve. So there's something very unusual about this person, and I wanted to use in the title a word that conveyed that, conveyed her uniqueness without conveying also a judgment about her. I wanted a neutral term, and I think "A Singular Woman" tells you this is a very unusual person who's worth knowing about, but it doesn't tell you what you're supposed to think about her.
I think you have to look at why the president wrote that book in the first place—his—his memoir. It—the idea for it arose out of the moment when he had been elected the first black president of the "Harvard Law Review." And in the aftermath of that election, in 1990, there were a number of articles written about him—really the first extensive media coverage of Barack Obama—and a series of profiles that ran in major newspapers. And if you look at those articles, he begins to elaborate his life story, the story on which he subsequently based his introduction to the American public at the 2004 convention and then on which he—the life story he used in the 2008 campaign. And when he talks about his story in those early articles, you see, increasingly, an emphasis on his father. I think the book, in a way—because he was the first black president of the "Harvard Law Review"—was intended initially—the idea which came from a—from a—a—a agent actually—the idea was to talk about his—his racial history, his race identity, and his finding of his race identity. So, to some extent, he was telling the story of his coming to terms with the African/African American side of himself. So the emphasis was more on his father. That—that would be one interpretation you could offer. He does—you're right. Aft—that book came out in '95. In 2004, after the Democratic Convention speech, he—the book became very popular again and was republished with a new preface. And in that new preface he said, "Had I known my mother was gonna die,"—she died shortly after the—the book was published the first time—"Had I known she was gonna—gonna die, I might have written a different book, not a book about the absent parent but a book about the one who was the single constant in my life." And then two years after that, he goes back in the "Audacity of Hope" and describes her even more specifically, in terms of her influence on him, shaping his values and giving him the impetus really to go into public life. And then when I spoke to him, he spoke about her again along—on those terms. But he went even further, and he said, "She was . . ."—he described her as smart and sophisticated in her work, which is not something I had ever really heard him talk about. So, I think, for a combination of reasons, he started out thinking about his father and is increasingly thinking about his mother.
In her first few weeks at this—at the university as a 17-year-old freshman—she encountered Barack Obama, the first African student at the University of Hawaii and a Kenyan. He had arrived there actually a year earlier, not through the East-West Center but increasingly was wrapped up in that, you know, foreign-student ferment there. So she met him. He was extraordinarily charismatic. He had a fantastic voice, according to people who—who knew him, was quite brilliant, and she had some kind of cataclysmic encounter with him. She was pregnant by November—early November. She dropped out of school, they married quietly, and on August 4, 1961, Barack Obama the Younger was born in a hospital in Honolulu.
I do think that the evidence has been very clear for several years now, even before the release of the long-form birth certificate, that that's where he was born. The fact is the—the birth certificate that was released in 2008 by the campaign is the standard Hawaiian birth certificate. They do not issue, as a matter of course these days, the long, the quote long-form one. But—and that seemed to put the issue to rest for a while after the campaign was over, but then it resurfaced, precipitating the release by the president more recently. Whether it has put the issue to rest entirely, I think, tells—is a matter more for the people who make that argument—the birthers—than it is for the facts, because the facts have been out there. Not only was the birth certificate very clear-cut in 2008 and the long-form one simply supports that, as we all expected it would, but also there were announcements in the Honolulu papers within 10 days of the president's birth—announcements that were placed by the hospitals. You couldn't call the papers and put in an announcement yourself. The state-elected officials—Republicans and Democrats—had vouched for the veracity of the short-form, supposedly, birth certificate several years ago. So I think the material record is one thing, and then the opinion of people who choose to believe this—want to believe this for whatever reason—is something else.
He moved to Indonesia with his mother at the age of six. Indonesia is a very race-conscious society—Indonesians will tell you that—very conscious of the color of someone's skin. And there were very few Africans or African Americans or people of African descent in Jakarta at the time that the young Barack Obama lived there with his mother and stepfather. And I'm told that children teased him about it—it's—and—and even adults. I interviewed some people who worked with her in Jakarta in 1970—'69, '70—in that first period—the first four-year period she was living there, and they told me, very kind of sweetly and innocently, that—that she would bring her son to the office, and they would joke about his skin color and laugh at him. And I think he said, "Laugh at him." And I said, "Laugh at him or with him?" And—and he said, "Well, both." He said it as though, "Of course, that's—that's what we do here." So I think there was a certain amount of awareness of his skin color. Another fascinating incident, which was related to me by a—an American woman who was living in Djokjakarta in Indonesia at the time involved a lunch that she had with Ann Dunham and the young Barack Obama when he was nine. And they went out for a walk after lunch in the city of Djokjakarta. And, according to this woman, some Indonesian children ran alongside them and started to throw stones at the young Barack. And he just sort of jumped around and duck—play—sort of played dodgeball with the stones and, you know, just laughed. And—she said, "As though playing dodgeball with—with—with a hidden enemy, a hidden opponent"—and Ann said nothing—Ann Dunham, his mother. And the woman who was telling me this story was concerned, because she thought possibly Ann didn't know that these Indonesian children were yelling racial epithets at her son. And she—so she stepped forward to say, you know, "Should—do you understand what's being said? Should we—should I do something?" And Ann said, "No, no, he's used to it." And this woman's conclusion was that she was really—that she had decided to—that in order to raise her child in Indonesia, he needed to be fearless, and she was encouraging this kind of fearlessness.
In Indonesia many people pointed out to me that—particularly in Java—that there is a great value put on self-control, and to show your emotions is a—a sign of weakness, and that one of the ways this is inculcated in children is through this culture of teasing. And if you respond to the teasing and get rattled, you've lost. But if you laugh and act as though it hasn't happened, then you've—you come out on top. And in Indonesia many people think that some of the remarkable cool demeanor of the president, which Americans find somewhat baffling, is actually a Javanese trait that comes from him having spent four years there at a very critical period in his development. I think the main one that Americans would—would notice, and that was pointed out to me, was this notion of self-control and emotional restraint.
Ann Dunham was not a religious person in terms of an affiliation with a particular church or even a specific religion. But she has been described by many people who were close to her, including her son, as a very spiritual person. She was raised by—her parents had been raised in Baptist and Methodist families but I don't think were particularly church-oriented themselves. But as a teenager Ann went to an—the youth group of a Unitarian church in Bellevue, Washington, that had very liberal, progressive values and, I believe, played a role in shaping the anti-redlining law in King county, Washington, and—and things like that. So she had this exposure early on to that—to that training, if you want to call it that. They would—the youth group—would often go to synagogues and temples and other—the institutions of other religions—and sort of observe them and come back and talk about them. So they did a lot of comparative religion. Later on in her life, according to her daughter, she sort of—she impressed upon her children the importance of respecting that every religion has something to offer, and she was willing to kind of try out different ones, depending on where she was. So she would make offerings in Buddhist temples, and she meditated. Late in her life, a colleague of hers told me, he felt that she—he—she was moving toward a kind of deism or Uni—back to her Unitarian roots. So she was very spiritual, and yet she did not like the idea of excess ritual. So it's interesting—the—the president's choice to affiliate himself with a specific church in a—in a very public way. That might be another area in which he really chose the opposite.
When I interviewed President Obama, he told me that his mother took her job as mother very seriously, and that's absolutely true. She went way out of her way to impress certain values on her children: the importance of hard work and caring about their education, the importance of humility and not being arrogant, and the importance of, really, that—that the highest value in life is to do something for other people. And that is the way she chose to live her life. And I think the president, too, is—is—is a remarkable example of that—a person who says that those values informed his decision to go into public life and to become a public servant and ultimately his—his work as president.
[Music]