Jump to content

Requests for new languages: Difference between revisions

Add links
From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki
Browse history interactively
← Older editNewer edit →
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
Aya (talk | contribs)
136 edits
+new section
Aya (talk | contribs)
136 edits
Line 602: Line 602:
== Requests for new Wikiversity languages ==
== Requests for new Wikiversity languages ==


=== English ===

I notice there is a de.wikiversity.org, but no en.wikiversity.org. This project is currently hosted at en.wikibooks.org, and I figured it might be wise to move it to its own wiki. I've modified the template somewhat, since I'm sure I don't need to explain what the English language is. :-)

If you are interested in creating, organising, maintaining, or administering this project, please add yourself to the list below with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> - [[User:Aya|Aya]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Aya|T]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Aya|C]]</sup> 17:32, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

* People interested
** [[User:Aya|Aya]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Aya|T]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Aya|C]]</sup> 17:32, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
* Suggested domain: en.wikiversity.org


==See also==
==See also==

Revision as of 17:32, 29 July 2005

Projects

This page is intended for discussing the creation of new language editions of existing projects. This is not the page to propose a new project.

The Wikimedia Foundation aims to facilitate the dissemination of knowledge in many different languages. Currently, wikis have been created in almost 200 languages. If you would like to work in a language that does not yet have a wiki, you may request it here.

Procedure

There are several steps to follow if you would like to create a new language Wikipedia, Wiktionary, Wikibooks or Wikiquote. The Wikimedia Commons and Wikispecies are multi-lingual projects, meaning that there are no separate editions for individual languages. The Wikisource project also has many languages within one domain, but does have a subdomain set-up for Hebrew because Hebrew is written from right-to-left instead of left-to-right, and it is not possible to mix these formats in one wiki. Current attitudes at Wikisource regarding this policy are monitored at Wikisource's Language domain requests page.

  1. Peruse the complete list of Wikimedia projects. If the language you are looking for is not listed, look for very similar languages. Your proposed language must be sufficiently different, in its written form, from any other already-created language.
  2. You must have an account here on the Meta wiki.
  3. Copy and paste the template to the new proposals section.
  4. Find the ISO code or propose a code for your language.
  5. Fill in all fields in the template.
  6. If many potential contributors to your language's wiki are likely to speak a different language that already has a wiki, try and drum up support at a community discussion area on that wiki. Encourage anyone who wants to contribute to your proposed language to come to this page and add their support for your proposal.
  7. If there is a consensus to create a wiki in your proposed language, send a message to the appropriate mailing list asking a developer to set up the wiki.
  8. Be patient, as our developers are very busy volunteers. You may work on articles, interface files and help or instruction pages using an offline word processor so that you can quickly get your new wiki going. You may want to look at the List of articles all languages should have.

FAQ

What do I do if there is no ISO code for my language?

If there is no standard code (no ISO code nor IANA code) for the language you propose, don't worry. Just type "none" in the field.

How do I know if my language is sufficiently different from a language that already has a wiki?

This is an issue that is decided by consensus.

Can there be wikis in ancient languages?

Yes. There are already wikis available in Latin, Old English, Gothic and Pali.
Please add new requests for wikis in ancient languages to Requests for new languages/Ancient.

Can there be wikis in artificial languages?

Yes. There are already wikis available in Esperanto, Ido, Interlingua, Interlingue, Lojban There used to be a Toki Pona wiki, but it was decided that the Toki Pona language was not used widely enough to support a wiki.

However, it is quite possible that a fictional language will get little favor. Many consider the existence of the Klingon Wikipedia to be unacceptable. There is currently a proposal to shut it down (See also Talk page).

Please place all new requests for Wikipedias in artificial languages at Requests for new languages/Non-natural.

How many speakers are necessary?

No language has ever been refused solely because of an insufficient number of speakers. For natural languages, this will probably never be an issue; for artificial languages, however, a low number of speakers may be taken as evidence that the language is not widely spoken enough to deserve a wiki.
The actual number of users who know the language and work on the wiki is an important issue, but it is not known how many are necessary for a wiki to gain momentum and solid growth. The dedication of the users may be more important than the number, since a few devoted users may write more, and higher quality, articles than a larger number of casual users.

To be further discussed at a later time

These languages have been proposed in the past. If you would like to be notified when the wiki is set up, please add your preferred method of contact to this list after the name of the language you want to work on.

To see the original proposal and any discussion regarding it, see the talk page.

Template

Template:New-language-template

Requests for new Wikipedia languages

Discussion ongoing

Moved requests

Former USSR languages

  • Languages (and codes): Udmurt (udm), Erzya (myv), Moksha (mdf), Crimean (crh), Buriat (bua), Kalmyk (xal), Karachay-Balkar (krc), Karakalpak (kaa), Ingush (inh), Tuvinian (tyv), Aleut (ale), Yakut (sah)
  • Link to request on mailing list:
  • Proposer:
  • People interested joining:
  • Notes/comments:
    • I'm interested to develop Udmurt wikipedia but there are some strong technical problems still not resolved: namely, the problem concerning presentation/mispresentation of specifical Udmurt Unicode characters from Extended Cyrillic (they are omitted in such popular fonts as Times New Roman, Arial, Verdana and so on... then I don't know how to solve this problem... Can anybody give me some related advices? Denis Sacharnych 14:11, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • ATTENTION! The most of Cyrillic languages of Russia has no font support! The best variant is used in Chuvash Wikipedia: cv:MediaWiki:Monobook.css Could this code be loaded to all listed wikis (exclude Crimean Tatar)? Also about the interface files. For the most of listed files Russian files should be loaded. They are also should be loaded to Kyrghyz, Kazakh, Komi, Avar, Kumyk, Chechen, Mari, Chuvash, Bashkir, Abkhazian wikis, as it was done for Ossetic, Turkish file for Crimean Tatar. --Untifler 15:23, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • It's probably, that Udmurt keyboard is't created yet, or it is not popular. Something like cv:MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning could be used.
        • Thanks for the links, they seems to be very useful! About keyboard drivers: I use an Udmurt keyboard driver (with Unicode-support) made by myself, but the most preferred variant for wiki-developers would be IMHO an on-line keyboard emulator (written in JavaScript).--Denis Sacharnych 04:53, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • A general (technical) remark: In my opinion there shouldn't be bulk requests for Wikipedias in new languages. Rather each proposed new language needs to be examined separately (i. e. concerning interested users, script issues and so forth). There is no use in discussing languages by the dozen, especially since we have limited developer capacities and experience shows that any Wikipedia created ahead ("maybe somebody will use it someday") without a sufficient number of initial supporters is very likely to flatline. Arbeo 20:29, 1 Jul 2005 (UTC)
    • Of course, each proposed new language needs to be examined separately! I think the Udmurt language is suitable to be presented in Wikipedia. I have created some sample articles in Udmurt (see Test Page in Udmurt). But! It seems to be much easier to find authors, who could write articles to Wiki not reflecting about any technical questions (fonts, scripts and so on), than those people, who will agree to lose a lot of time and energy to learn how the Wikipedia works (thare are a lot of very difficult things there). This circumstance forces to agree with the principle "maybe somebody will use it someday"... --Denis Sacharnych 9 July 2005 07:02 (UTC)

Ainu

  • Link to request on mailing list:
  • ISO code: tut for Chinese Ainu, mis for Japanese Ainu
  • Proposer: Scott Gall 09:40, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)
  • People interested joining:
  • Relevant links:
  • Notes/comments:
    • No ISO code. How about just ainu?
      • OK then. The website is ainu.wikipedia.org. Scott Gall
        • There IS an ISO code for Ainu (ain for Japanese Ainu, aib for Chinese Ainu). NazismIsntCool 09:58, 7 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • "ain" is not an ISO language code. (18 Apr 2005)
          • I am glad that you do not only try to give evidence. (7 May 2005)
            • Yes it is. I might be Romanian, but I'm not a retard. NazismIsntCool 01:09, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
            • And if it's evidence you want, look at this and this (copied off the proposer's talk page.) NazismIsntCool 04:27, 11 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
              • This two URL say the language code "AIN" and "AIB" are private-non-standard and out-of-date. Thank you for those evidence. (11 May 2005)
                • Thanks for the assist, whoever it was. But just because NazismIsntCool is a Romanian-American doesn't mean she's non-standard and out-of-date. And if it was the codes you were describing, that doesn't mean they can't be used. Scott Gall 04:29, 13 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
              • "AIN" and "AIB" are SIL codes, not ISO. --Puzzlet Chung 14:09, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
                • Nobody gives a damn. If another language is not using those codes, it's OK. Belgian man said they were ISO codes, and they were correct. Scott Gall 07:48, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
                  • You may not give a damn, Scott, but other people do. No developer will ever again create a Wikipedia using a non-iso code as was done for als.wiki. Also, you're being awfully rude to somebody who is just trying to help. --Node ue 16:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
                    • Was I? Sorry about that. Scott Gall 05:56, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
                  • Good point, Scott. The codes don't have to be ISO if there isn't an ISO code for it. We can always use SIL codes as an alternative - I think it'll be a good idea. NazismIsntCool 04:02, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
                • The URL mentioned the ISO 639-2 codes: tut for Chinese Ainu, and mis for Japanese Ainu. NazismIsntCool 04:08, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
                  • TUT is for all Turkic languages without a specific ISO code, MIS is for all languages without a specific or family ISO code (for example, a Germanic language without a code -- say, Zeelandic -- would be GEM, because it's covered by the "Other Germanic languages" code; Ainu, Nivkh, etc. on the other hand would be MIS because they're not covered by any such family code ) --Node ue 16:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
                    • How about mis-ain for Japanese Ainu and tut-aib for Chinese Ainu? Scott Gall 05:56, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
          • How about finding some native speakers, or near native language revivers? Did someone attempt to already? This request has been on the page for a long time, it's time either to complete this attempt and find native speaker support, or put it into the fridge and focus on some other projects. Caesarion 13:56, 4 Jul 2005 (UTC)
            • I think it will be very difficult to find fluent Ainu speakers. I've met native (semi-)speakers in Japan in the past, and some people who were learning or planning to learn the language, but there are very few fluent speakers around. This project should be put on hold (and moved off this page) until a much later date, at which time hopefully I'll be in a better position to contribute. Chamdarae 15:37, 4 Jul 2005 (UTC)
              • This isn't really true. While there aren't hordes of native speakers, there are at least 200 and possibly as many as 1000. The exact number is unknown. But there are enough to read an Ainu-language newspaper, the Ainu Times, and keep it in business. --Node ue 7 July 2005 13:01 (UTC)

No proposed code

Extremaduran and Fala (Galaico-Extremaduran)

  • Links to discussion on the mailing list:
  • Naming suggestions:
  • ISO / SOL code: Extremaduran - (SIL Code, EXT; ISO 639-2 code, roa [Romance Miscellaneous])
  • Proposer: Carlos Quiles (co-writer of the cultural newspaper Iventia.com)
  • People interested joining:
    • APLEx Society
  • Relevant links:
    • Spanish Linguistic Society [1]
    • APLEx Society [2]
    • Iventia.com [3]
    • Virtual Walk around Extremadura[4]
  • Notes/comments:
    • Two dialect near en:Castilian and en:Portuguese language (es:Dialecto extremeño).
    • No ISO code. Are there any objections to roa-ext? (roa is the generic code for "other Romance languages")
      • ext is not an ISO code. (5 Mar 2005)
    • this language seems a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish. It seens that is not a language variation (dialect of a language), like British English or American English, but a language. Fala is more related with Portuguese and it belongs to the Portuguese-Galician group (31 Mar 2005).
      • No, Fala and Extremaduran are what are called "transitional varieties". They do not belong to either language. This is an example of a Wikipedia requested a while ago with support from the relevant cultural institutions but was never created, while chr:, chy:, tum:, and others created around the time of this request never had that support, but were created anyways and are still practically empty. --Node ue 16:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

New proposals

Please post any new proposal at the end of this section.

Template:Requests for new languages/Kabyle

Saterlandic

  • Proposer: Caesarion 19:54, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • ISO code: none
  • proposed domain: (gem-)slt ?
  • Alternate names: Seeltersk, East Frisian
  • Relevant link:
  • People interested joining:
    • [5] (proposer)
    • Pyt Kramer (personal announcement to proposer)
  • Notes and comments:
    • It is an offshoot of Old Frisian and distinct from Westlauwer Frisian. Today it is only spoken by some 2,000 people in the German community of Saterland. Not to be confused with Ostfriesland Low Saxon, which is often referred to as Ostfriesisch.
    • en:Wikipedia point of view:
      • Some people say fy is for Frisian.
      • Some people say fy is for West Frisian.
      • Some people say fy is for English.
    • Do fy's users allow content in East Frisian (in fy) ? 6 Mar 2005
      • Probably not. Even an article in North Frisian on North Frisian had to be translated into Westlauwer Frisian. Probably the same policy would be held towards Saterlandic. They only accept Standard Westlauwer Frisian. It must be stressed that the three main variants are NOT mutually intelligible.--Caesarion 13:27, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • At the start of fy: I proposed including all Frisian languages, provided we could work out a way to have three Wikipedia within one framework. The advice was to use fy for the biggest of the three, western, and support the creation of other Wikipediae for the other two. So far we've followed the first part of that advice, treating a North Frisian article on North Frisian as just another language example. Now I'd like to do the second part. Though it would hardly attract the same audience, as the languages are further apart than da - no - sv, I would really like to see a Sealtersk Wikipedy. (We would have to figure out a code for it, though.) Aliter 21:14, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
          • I propose that we use either frs or slt. I let it depend on the preferences of people involved with this project or with creating any new wikipedia.--Caesarion 13:37, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
          • In my opinion slt or sfr are to be preferred above frs, because that is sometimes used as a n abbreviation for Frisian in general. So M.C.Fort in his Saterfriesisches Wörterbuch p.52 has afrs. for Old Frisian, sfrs. for Saterlandic. Pyt Kramer.

Papiamentu

Sranang Tongo

North Frisian

  • People interested:
  • ISO code: none
  • Proposed domain: gem-nfr
  • Relevant infos:
  • Link to request on a mailing list: http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2005-May/039448.html
  • Comments:
    • One of the three Frisian languages, very unlike both Westlauwer and Saterland Frisian.
    • After my request for a Saterlandic Wikipedia, which is currently being developed, I would like to request a wikipedia in the last remaining Frisian language without one. This request is supported by the existing and flourishing Westlauwer Frisian Wikipedia. Caesarion 11:31, 8 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Proposed code: gem-nfr
    • Wikipedia point of view:
      • Some people say fy is for Frisian language. (11 May 2005)
      • Some people say fy is for West Frisian language. (11 May 2005)
      • Some people say fy is for English language. (11 May 2005)
    • fy does not refer to any specific variety of Frisian, it applies to North Frisian languages as well as Westerlauwerspsdlfls Frisian. Node ue 10 May 2005
    • fy is sometimes said to refer to all Frisian languages, but the letter y (form "Frysk") suggests it is intended for Westlauwer Frisian only. Caesarion 28 May 2005
      • It doesn't matter how "fy" was formed. Bottom line: FY is for Frisian. Not just Westlauwer Frisian. Any list of ISO codes will tell you this, in both English and French. --Node ue 16:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • You know jolly well that it is ridiculous to consider it one language. By the way, I did not leave the information on the iso codes above. And PLEASE don't use obscene words on any Wikimedia project! Caesarion 15:21, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • I'm not disputing whether or not they are one language. That is obvious, they are multiple languages. But they share a single ISO code nonetheless. FY is not assigned specifically to Westlauwers Frisian, but rather to "Frisian". And definitely NOT to English...! --Node ue 20:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
        • Of course not. It must have been a mistake. But please no f-words here on this page! Caesarion 08:54, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
          • In nl.wikipedia anything to do with Frisia is considered an f*** word ;) Waerth 09:06, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Silbo Gomero

  • Proposed website name: slb.wikipedia.org
  • Information: Silbo is a "whistled language" spoken in the Canary islands, more specifically on the island of La Gomera, by a dwindling population.
  • ISO code: none
  • Proposer: NazismIsntCool
  • People interested joining
  • Relevant links:
  • Notes/comments:
    • Silbo is a language spoken on La Gomera. NazismIsntCool 10:05, 7 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • It is important cultural heritage, surely, but how do you want to write it down? Caesarion 10:22, 7 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • What about en:International maritime signal flags, en:smoke signals or a Morse code Wikipedia? Come on now, this page is not for parody. Arbeo 13:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • Arbeo, perhaps you do not know much about el silbo gomera. It is an independent language, not an alternative mode of expressing an existing language like all the examples you give. --Node ue 03:35, 10 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • You're right Node, but still you can't write it down. Caesarion 08:12, 10 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
            • Just because it isn't often written down doesn't mean it's impossible. Until the 1970s most people would've said it's impossible to write signed languages. Navajo was not written very much until perhaps the 1930s, and even now most people over 30 can't read it (though those under 30 often can as it is now taught in schools). Silbo Gomera (as in, el silbo de La Gomera) has been written before in scholarly publications. If a fluent speaker so desired, it would be quite easy to write a whole book in Silbo. Materials that were handed out at the first international conference on whistled languages used different transcription systems depending on the author, but they were all quite easy to understand. The transcriptions at the conference were much preferred to audio samples because you can look at a transcription and add to it or cross parts out or analyse it for a whole hour, but with an audio sample it is more difficult to edit and if you want to analyse it you have to listen to it over and over. Whether the actual speakers of Silbo would be able to read a transcription system without first being taught it is debatable, but regardless of that it would be easy to write a program to synthesize Silbo from transcriptions (just as, say, Navajo can be converted from text-to-speech, or American Sign language, etc) --Node ue 21:22, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
            • Why would I request one in maritime signal flags, smoke signals, or Morse code, or even sign language or Braille? You can write down Morse code or Braille, but Braille is actually read by blind people using their fingers and running them over a series of raised dots. NazismIsntCool 04:22, 11 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • Node ue, perhaps I know more about it than the user who proposed it as a language for Wikipedia. Matter of fact, he even mispelled the name (and so did you), for it should read "el silbo gomero" (Spanish masculine adjective). You're right, it is an independent language. I don`t question that. But still you can`t _write_ an encyclopedia using it. That`s what I was trying to point out by using the above examples. Then again, maybe NazismIsntCool can prove me wrong by writing down just one sample sentence in silbo (I'm sure he must have thought about that matter before requesting a new wikipedia).Arbeo 14:07, 12 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • It depends whether it is intended as an adjective or not . I am well aware of Spanish grammatical gender, and it was not a 'mistake'. It was intended as a contraction of "el sistemo lingüístico del silbo de la isla que se llaman La Gomera". As I noted above there is no reason one cannot write Silbo. It isn't often done, but it is very possible, and you could write any sort of literature in it from a particle physics textbook to a romance novel to an e-mail to the woman who lives at the base of the mountain on top of which you yourself live. But the only reason anybody has had so far to write it is for research purposes. In ideal conditions it can be heard from more than 1km away, and if you wanted to write a newspaper or public notice it can be done in Spanish (or if you are mentally insane or historically inclined, Guanche). --Node ue 21:22, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • Everyone, or nearly everyone, that uses silbo speaks Spanish as well. Scott Gall 00:27, 15 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
            • Nearly everyone who speaks Welsh speaks English as well. Nearly everyone who speaks Catalan speaks Castillian (ie "Spanish") as well. Everybody who speaks Haida speaks English as well. But these facts alone are no reason to not hvae Wikipedias in these languages. --Node ue 21:22, 16 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]
              • Don't forget most of the Polynesian, Native American, and Celtic languages - nearly everyone who speaks them also speaks the majority language (English in most cases.) Welsh speakers who can't understand English can be found in the Chubut Valley of Argentina, where most Welsh speakers there speak Spanish. The fact that most users of minority languages also understand the majority language is definitely no reason to close down or not open up wikis in those tongues. (Note that I used most instead of all.) Scott Gall 07:46, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sorbian

  • Link to request on mailing list:
  • ISO code: hsb (Upper), dsb (Lower)
  • People interested joining:
  • Relevant links: en:Sorbian languages de:Sorbische Sprache
  • Notes/comments: In fact, there are two very similar sorbic laguages, see article in Wikipedia.
  • Number of speakers: 60 thousand in Germany + an unquantified number in a part of Texas, USA
    • First: sign your posts, please. Second: both Upper and Lower Sorbian are standardised languages. We should not create one Wikipedia for both of them. Better point this request at Upper Sorbian, having much more speakers, particularly among the young (Lower Sorbian is seriously endangered), or consider requesting two Wikipedias, for both languages. Caesarion 10:15, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • If sorbian wikipedias should be created (an idea which I strongly support) then it should have BOTH as a lower-sorbian wikipedia could stop the endangerous situation of the language! Tiontai 20:07, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • A Wikipedia is not enough to stop a language being endangered, but it can be very useful. However, contributors must be found for both of them, and I think it will be quite difficult to find enough willing contributors for both Upper and Lower Sorbian. Upper Sorbian has the priority, imo, because it is more likely to generate a real encyclopaedia than Lower Sorbian. In other words: if the Upper Sorbian Wikipedia succeeds we can think of creating a Lower Sorbian one. Caesarion 23:21, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC) you are right. --Dundak 09:56, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • So I will ask some sorbians to create a wikipedia or to push the idea of an wikipedia like this.

Tiontai 05:44, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Comments: There were some attempts to translate the UI LanguageHsb.php, the file seems to be outdated, so I worked on User:Dundak/LanguageHsb.php, but the interest in this project seems to be rather low-level. I mean, let's have some people together first, then think about setting up a new WP. --Dundak 09:03, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • I tried to update Language Hsb for Upper Sorbian based upon Mediawiki 1.5 beta3. --Michawiki (formerly mwjelk) 20 Jul 2005

Banyumasan

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]: N
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis: User:Slamet Serayu
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki: -
  • ISO code : ISO 639-2 Alpha-3 bdf / ban:
  • proposed domain: bdf.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos: en:Banyumasan language
    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia: Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian) and Basa Jawi (Javanese).
    • App. number of speakers: 12 - 15 Millions Total
    • Location(s) spoken: Western Part of Central Java, Cirebon - Indramayu and North of Banten. All located in Java island of Indonesia.
    • Closely related languages, if any: Javenese, Sundanese and Kawi Language.
    • External links to organizations that promote the language: www.banyumas.go.id
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments: I propose this with main reason that lately, there is a lot of evidences that Banyumasan language leaft behind by the younger peoples of Banyumasan. They prefer speaking Yogyakartan / Surakartan (assumed as Modern Javanese language) dialect instead of Banyumasan and I'm afraid that Banyumasan language will be disappear sooner. Other reason, Banyumasan language is quite different (especially in phonetic) compared to Modern Javanese language (Yogyakartan/Surakartan). Most of original Banyumasan words are never found in Modern Javanese language such as : kencot (hungry), pisan (very), inyong (I/me), rika/sira (you), belih (no), entong (used up), dingin (previous) etc etc.
Banyumasan Javanese is not the same as Western Javanese language group. Furthermore it is different than Old Javanese. For further discussion see talk:Banyumasan language. Meursault2004 22:13, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Similar to Javanese. Ask jv to host Banyumasan? 203.167.171.185 22:36, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
No. One Wikipedia never hosts another. Romanian and Aromanian are similar - separate Wikipedias. English and Scots are similar - separate Wikipedias. Russian and Ukrainian are similar - separate Wikipedias. Cornish and Welsh are similar - separate Wikipedias. Hindi and Gujarati are similar - separate Wikipedias. Samoan and Hawaiian are similar - separate Wikipedias. Kazak and Kyrgyz are similar - separate Wikipedias. Galician and Portuguese are similar - separate Wikipedias. Czech and Slovak are similar - separate Wikipedias. Indonesian and Malay are similar - separate Wikipedias. Estonian and Voro are similar - separate Wikipedias. Spanish and Catalan are similar - separate Wikipedias. Italian and Sicilian are similar - separate Wikipedias. Dutch and Plattdeutsch are similar - separate Wikipedias. Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian are nearly identical - separate Wikipedias. Again, a different language, a different Wikipedia. Scott Gall 22:51, 14 July 2005 (UTC) PS: At least you signed your post.[reply]
You have learned well, young jedi. --Node ue 02:53, 25 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Lombard

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]: N
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis:jorgengb, Jorgengb
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki: -
  • ISO code : SIL code (= proposed ISO 639-3 code): lmo
  • proposed domain: lmo.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos: There is no universally accepted written standard or variety, but there is nevertheless a considerable amount of literature and a certain tradition sufficient as a base for a common standard (intelligible to practically all speakers) that could be used in this Wikipedia. For more information please see the articles on Lombard in en:Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombard_language) and in Ethnologue (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=lmo).
Lombard is heading towards becoming a moribund language. The development of media in Lombard would be a major step to counter this tendency, and to give Lombard a better status. A common misunderstanding (that linguists will recognize from similar issues concerning other laguages) is that "you can't discuss serious matters in Lombard"). Wikipedia articles in Lombard would prove the contrary and contribute to establish a standard orthography.
  • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombard_language
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:
    • Considering the facts you mentioned above, I'm wondering if a Wiktionary might be more beneficial in this case. While I agree with most of what you are writing I don't think an encyclopedia will prove to be helpful in establishing a generally accepted orthography and inventory of words. The lack thereof could in the worst case even hamper the goal of writing a Wikipedia (because people would spend a lot of time and energy on language instead of content issues). A dictionary however could be a useful first step towards filtering out widely accepted spellings. Thus, a Wikipedia could be set up more easily at a later stage. Arbeo 14:40, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • Arbeo, you're very wrong about that. There are at least two Wikipedias operating with no single standardised orthography: Sicilian (scn:, over 1100 articles) and Breton (br:, over 400 articles). The Breton Wikipedia is in a sort of state of confusion; the Sicilian Wikipedia is an island of orthographic calm in the middle of a sea of Sicilian confusion -- everybody agreed on basic rules for writing on Wikipedia, but can't agree for anywhere else... yet --Node ue 16:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
        • Thank you for informing me about those cases. Maybe my assessment was a little too pessimistic. My intention was only to assure possible ostacles are paid attention to at an early stage. Arbeo 16:11, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • As a native speaker (among other languages) also of a Lombard variety rather close to the Western Lombard koiné, I don't think it would be a major problem to write articles in Lombard. Even if there is no established orthograhy, there are nevertheless some writing conventions accepted by all those who write in Lombard (and historically dating back at least a few centuries). Examples of such accepted conventions are: 1. that word-final [k] is written -ch while word-final [tS] is written -c, and 2. that the shortness of vowels in word-final stressed syllables is shown by doubling the following consonant in simplex codas, e.g. cass "crates", gatt "cat, cats". There is general agreement in how consonants should be written. For the vowels, the main issue might be whether to write front rounded vowels the "French" way (oeu, u) or the "German" way (ö, ü). Apart from the strong tradition for the former solution in Milanese, the latter seems to be the most widespread nowadays, cf. also the 9,5 kg heavy dictionary (LSI) published last year by CDE (Bellinzona, Tessin, Switzerland). All in all, there is probably a much larger degree of agreement than I may have given the impression of when writing this proposal.--Jorgengb 00:02, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. A language with 9 million speakers needs a wikipedia. If there's agreement on orthography, I think a test-wikipedia should be set up in the near future. Chamdarae 09:59, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch-Low Saxon

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]: Servien 14:14, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • ISO code : nds-nl (-nl to indicate it's Dutch-Low Saxon)
  • proposed domain: http://nds-nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/
  • Relevant infos: One of the Dutch official languages just like Frisian and Limburgs
    • Although still of a poor quality, Node ue is attempting to develop an orthographic converter. http://s87257573.onlinehome.us/ks/index.php?title=Nds-test (";lt;variantname-ks-de&gt" tab will convert to Dutch orthography, ";lt;variantname-ks-ar&gt" tab will convert to German orthography, ";lt;variantname-ks&gt" will leave unchanged)
    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia: Low Saxon and North Veluws
    • App. number of speakers: No estimate available except for the province of Groningen which is: 592,000. My estimate is about 2 000 000 who speak Dutch-Low Saxon.
    • Location(s) spoken: East and northern Netherlands
    • Closely related languages, if any: Dutch, Afrikaans, Frisian, Limburgs and German-Low Saxon
    • External links to organizations that promote the language: Streektaal.net, Lowlands-L.net
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:
    • Actually redundant with nds:, but it would be very neat, just since the nds: Wikipedia uses German spelling, and articles in Dutch based spelling would be largely incompatible with it. Caesarion 14:33, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • The number of speakers might be slightly too optimistic: 1.8 million seems more likely.
    • Strong oppose. If you want to discuss spelling issues, you're welcome to subscribe to Lowlands-l. There is no rule against using Dutch spelling on nds.wikipedia (obviously it's not used very much there, but as I said there's no rule against it). Low Saxon is a dialect continuum -- there is no real difference between what people living right next to the border on one side speak than those right across from them. --Node ue 16:49, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • But ADMIT that the fact that nds:, being for all Low German varieties, already has almost unbearable differences (or did you think an Apeldoorn dialect native speaker could understand West Pomerian?), and that these differences, in combination with the wide gap between Dutch and German spellings make nfs: unsuitable for any content in Dutch Low Saxon dialects. Caesarion 17:09, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • Lowlands-l does not help here. After some discussions we have decided to use the German based spelling according to SASS for the nds wikipedia. The spelling proposed by Lowlands-l is no option for us. And I can understand very well, that the Dutch based spelling and our spelling do not match. In addition to that we have another problem: when Low Saxon lacks a word, we (on the German side of the border) have the tendency to borrow a German word, and on the other side of the border they would certainly prefer to borrow a dutch word. The language fell apart a long time ago. In fact most people in Germany do not even know that there is a Low Saxon language on the other side of the border. When I think about the two different versions of the Norse wikipedia that are made for one single country and when I think about the Aromunian wikipedia, I think that having a separate wikipeda for nds-nl is the best option. HeikoEvermann 11:01, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • But there is no rule that you may not add content in your dialect/spelling/etc in it. You say it's unsuitable, but have you tried?? --Node ue 04:17, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • Actually we are unifying the spelling (to the spelling according to Sass) whereever we find differences. The only real exception that we list alternative spellings for the title of the article in the first paragraph and we sometimes provide redirects from alternative spellings to the main article. But the article itself should follow Sass. HeikoEvermann 10:00, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • For what shall we try first? I looked for a comparison in English language and I would say, that nds-de and nds-nl are as far apart in pronounciation and in spelling as modern English and the 1400 example of middle English in en:Middle English (this isn't the best comparison because one is a parallel development and the other serial, but the best example I found). If it were possible I really would like and want one Wikipedia for both. But it would be very hard to understand. Sure, if there would be a common orthography neither based singly on German nor on Dutch, this would be easier, but there is no such common orthography that is in broader use. The actual reality is, that we need two Wikipedias. --Slomox 16:27, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • strong support. there's nothing like unity in diversity :-) oscar 00:47, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • support. Maybe we should count the votes now? Guaka 20:49, 3 Jul 2005 (UTC)
      • 5 people willing to work on it, 2 3 other people's support and
      • 1 oppose.
    • support Arbeo 18:46, 4 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Ligurian

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]: Mark Williamson
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis: Node
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki:
  • ISO code: none (roa-lij; ISO 639-3/DIS code is LIJ)
  • proposed domain: roa-lij.wikipedia.org OR lij.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos:
    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia:
    • App. number of speakers: 2 million
    • Location(s) spoken: Ligurian region of Italy, whole nation of Monaco, and in the town of Bonifacio in Corsica
    • Closely related languages, if any: Tabarchino, the language of the island of San Pietro and part of the island of Sant'Antioco, is said to be a Ligurian dialect. Also related to Lombard, Venet, Piedmontese, and Emilian.
    • External links to organizations that promote the language: [6]

[7] [8] [9] [10]

  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments: There are already at least 15 Ligurian-speaking Wikipedians.
  • Requested as a part of Wikiproject Fratellanza. Venet, Piedmontese, Emilian, Neapolitan, and Griko Salentino might be requested in the near future.

American English

  • Is it possible to create a wiki just in American English (code: en-us)? If there is a wiki in Simple English (code: simple), then why isn't there a wiki in U.S. English? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 06:30, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The Wikipedia at en.wikipedia.org is for all forms of English. See en:WP:MOS#National varieties of English. There's no reason to duplicate efforts by attempting to split that wiki into different varieties of the same language. Angela 07:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
No thanks. That's just a ridiculous idea. Revolución 15:19, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You're right. But with the precedence set by the opening of the Voro (which is related to Estonian) Wikipedia, we might go into more languages nearly identical, eg. a Wikipedia in Kai Tahu Maori (which is a dialect spoken in a large part of the South Island) or in Flemish or maybe in Canadian French might be opened. Or even one in Ancient Greek. But we might have to wait a while. Scott Gall 11:15, 1 Jul 2005 (UTC)
Just comment: It is not exactly correct to say that Voro (actually Võro) is related to Estonian, most native Estonian speakers don't understand it fully, they understand it about same level as Finnish language, which are a all in same language family (en:Finno-Ugric languages) (and this level is catching some words or about to get idea of general idea what speaker speaks or what the witten text is about, and this not even all the time) --TarmoK 09:56, 10 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ancient Greek may be. It's quite different from modern Greek, and there is a Latin pedia... Caesarion 19:19, 3 Jul 2005 (UTC)
  • There is a Wiki in American English right now. It happens to have a tad over 600,000 articles. (Wikipedia's Simple English, by the way, is a sort of combination of Ogden's Basic English and the VOA's Special English, and might properly be termed a related language.) Almafeta 6 July 2005 07:53 (UTC)

I still don't see why there shouldn't be a separate Wikipedia for American English:

  • Angela said, "The Wikipedia at en.wikipedia.org is for all forms of English." First of all, that's not exactly true, since Simple English is also a variety of English. So en.wikipedia.org is not necessarily for all varieties of English. Then, if there's "no reason to duplicate efforts", then why do they "duplicate efforts" when editing the Simple English Wikipedia? You know, Simple English is a special variety for learners of English, but if we go by the argument above that "efforts should not be duplicated", so to say, then why bother making a Simple English Wikipedia in the first place? Why not also make Wikipedias for other varieties of English? Then she tells me to take a look at en:WP:MOS#National varieties of English, which I had already taken a look at before asking the question, and which is pointless anyway, since it's a section that explains how to spell inside the already existing Wikipedia. The section does not explain why there shouldn't be different Wikipedias for different varieties of English. The section's entitled "National varieties of English" inside the MOS (Manual of Style). Hey, that's just a manual of style, not a manual that says why there shouldn't be different English Wikipedias. Then the section starts like "Cultural clashes over grammar, spelling, and capitalisation/capitalization are a common experience on Wikipedia." That's exactly why I would like to see different Wikipedias for different varieties of English, just to avoid the "cultural clashes over grammar, spelling, and capitalisation/capitalization".
  • Then there's this Esperanto editor, Revolución, who says it's "ridiculous" to make an en-us Wikipedia. Still don't see why.
  • Then we have Alfameta who says, "There is a Wiki in American English right now.". Just like Angela's argument above, that's not exactly true. He says there's a "Wiki in American English". That's not true. When you go to certain articles, you see there are different ways of spelling in those articles, which do not correspond to American English. So I wouldn't say there's a wiki in American English, I would say there's a wiki in a Mischmasch of different varieties of English.

So, in the end, why not create Wikipedias for more varieties of English? 2004-12-29T22:45Z 9 July 2005 18:26 (UTC)

  • OPPOSE This is ABSURD. The difference between General American English and Standard British English are so small that they literally boil down to a few turns of phrase and a small number of spellings. I cannot for a second believe that anyone would be serious about such a project. It's a bad joke, frankly, and the sooner the proponents realise that, the better. BryanAJParry
Weak oppose Although American English clearly isn't a distinct language in the way Scots is, the differences are certainly more than "a few turns of phrase and a small number of spellings". I'm sure any educated person from the UK or Australasia who's ever read an American news article or watched American TV could see they're deeper than that. But I don't think they're enough to have separate wikipedias. The differences are only enough to annoy us occasionally, not confuse us.
Setting up wikipedias in different varieties of English would be damaging to the unity of the English-speaking wikipedia community and I think there is no real need. Simple English is a special case because it is for second-language learners, and it's useful in translation. Perhaps in the future things will be different, but for now we've got to make the most of the mishmash of national standards that's there. Chamdarae 07:11, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with your assertion that the difference are very deep. But I am glad you agree the idea of an American English wiki is silly. To me it just seems like US patriotism trying to hijack the show. I'm British and, to be honest, I wouldn't give a damn if US spellings were the only accepted. BryanAJParry
Actually I don't think it's "silly", "absurd" or "ridiculous". Just unnecessary, risky and (as far as I can tell) against wikipedia policy. But I think the situation might change when en-wikipedia's growth slows down in the not-so-distant future. Until then I think having one large healthy wikipedia is better than Serbo-Croatian style fragmentation. Chamdarae 10:13, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Tuvaluan

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]: User:Belgian man
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis: --Btw 11:39, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki:
  • ISO code : tvl
  • proposed domain: http://tvl.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos:
    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia: en:Tuvaluan language
    • App. number of speakers: about 13 050
    • Location(s) spoken: Tuvalu, Fiji, Kiribati, Nauru, New Zealand
    • Closely related languages, if any: Tokelauan and others
    • External links to organizations that promote the language:
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:
    • Can you speak it at some level, Belgian man? We should at no cost risk a second Naurese-debâcle. Caesarion 15:54, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • I'm not the proposer. Neither was I for na:. Belgian man 18:31, 28 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • Oppose as long as no native speakers support the idea. For further details, please see [11] Arbeo 20:40, 1 Jul 2005 (UTC)
    • Strong Oppose. Tuvaluan is a bad language!!! No, kidding. The real reason is because of Belgian Man. I have seen his rudeness to newcomers at the Yoruba Wikipedia, and I am not impressed. --Node ue
    • Support Belgian man 21:03, 3 Jul 2005 (UTC)

Waray-Waray (Samar-Leyte Visayan)

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]:
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis: Harvzsf (N) 07:01, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki (Mga kasangkayan, aton na ini higayon, ¡alayon pag-pirma!):
  • ISO code : war (ISO 639-2)
  • proposed domain: http://war.wikipedia.org or if it's not possible then http://wry.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos:
    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia: en:Waray-Waray
    • Link to test-wp: meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/war/
    • App. number of speakers: 3 million
    • Location(s) spoken: Samar, northern and eastern Leyte, eastern Biliran
    • Closely related languages, if any: Hiligaynon, Cebuano, and other Visayan languages
    • External links to organizations that promote the language: DILA or Defenders of the Indigenous Languages of the Archipelago, a group that specifically was formed to advocate for equal linguistic rights for the indigenous languages of the Philippines which includes Waray-Waray.
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:
  • Support: --222.126.60.107 10:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Support~! Another philippines language! Yay! --Node ue 22:19, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - Yes, some more Philippine languages please. --Christopher Sundita 01:00, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - Ditto with Chris' comments. -- --Bentong 03:25, 3 Jul 2005 (UTC) (proposer of the Cebuano wiki)

Samogitian

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]:
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis: -- User:zordsdavini (N)
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki:
  • ISO code : none, but could be: smg
  • proposed domain: http://smg.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos:
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:

Triestin

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]: Juliet (N), Malto (N), remly (N) ,Stefano79 (N),Cenerentola82(N), Leucona (N), Kiki (N), SandroWeb (N), Daniele (N)
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis: User:Arlon (N)
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki: Starlite (N)
  • ISO code : none, but could be "tri"
  • proposed domain: tri.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos: Triestin is a language that is spoken (by the majority of the population) in the Italian city of Trieste, as well as all over the world, where people from Trieste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trieste) moved after the WW2, or later. Right now it is listed in the "Venetian" dialect list; its lexical roots are definitely venetian. However, Triestin has a lot of influence from Slavian languages (Slovenian and Croatian), as well as German, Friulian and ancient Latin. It is far from being a moribund language: nowadays is it spoken by almost all of the over-65 inhabitants of Trieste (who sometimes can't speak properly the national language, Italian) and most of the other parts of the population, youth included. A good amount of words are considered a sort of spoken "slang", slightly different from the written "Triestin". It can be read on most of the local web communities (such as Forums and Newsgroups). Recently the Triestin is spreading also, even slowly, in the youth part of the communities Chinese and Albanese of immigrates in Trieste, and even in the Italian's youth that usually don't speak it at home. It still is the flag of the soul of the city.

External useful links: "Triestin" rules (http://www.trieste.com/acc/citta/triestin.html) in italian, monolingual amateurial dictionary (http://www.tuttotrieste.net/dizts.htm), botanical article (http://www.quatrociacoe.it/200403/primavera.php), lots of books in Triestin (among many in Italian) can be found at (http://www.linteditoriale.com/), translations from Triestin to Italian (http://triestemia.com/TSDial.htm), novels (http://www.chimere.org/vitetriestine/index.html), some more info (http://www.euregion.net/index.php?module=subjects&func=viewpage&pageid=12), grammar info in Italian (http://www.euregion.net/index.php?module=subjects&func=viewpage&pageid=13) Notice that in these websites it is mostly called "dialect" but its usage is close to a proper language, with a strong publication history in the 20th century (that slowed down in the last few years, but never stopped).

    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia:
    • App. number of speakers: 250/300.000 (probably many more from all over the world, especially Australia, Argentina and USA)
    • Location(s) spoken: Trieste, Slovenia, Croatia, Venezia Giulia, Bassa Friulana
    • Closely related languages, if any: Venetian. The next ones have some features in common: Slovenian, Croatian, Friulian, German, Latin.
    • External links to organizations that promote the language:
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:
    • I am not entirely sure but my first reaction is weak oppose. From what I know, Triestin and Venetian varieties are completely mutually comprehensible; also general Venetian has heaps of speakers and there are plenty of additional Venetians on Wikipedia. Also, a google search for "Lingua triestina" (trestin language) returns 34 results only while a search for "Dialetto triestino" gives 1180. --Node ue 23:13, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)
      • This is much the same story as with Baseldytsch. But there are so many supporters that, if they do not turn out to be sockpuppets of one single user, we almost have to implement this request somehow. But let's just call it "Venetian" and allow any dialect, including Triestin. Caesarion 15:51, 28 Jun 2005 (UTC)
        • Hi Caesarion, every single name under "supporters" was added by a single user, Arlon. I'm removing them. If these people actually exist, they can come here and add their names themselves. --63.226.56.135 01:25, 29 Jun 2005 (UTC) (node)
          • 63.226.56.135, THIS IS WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DID. I have no idea about the way you recognize who is who, but you're totally wrong this time. You simply shouldn't have removed those users..! And, remember: this time I'll be back-upping the page, so they won't be deleted this easily. I should have done this before Arlon
        • As native speaker I can assure Triestin is obviously part of the Venetian varieties but, as already written above, it has been heavily affected over the centuries by languages like Greek, German, Slovenian, Croatian and French, so that many words and phrases are quite different and not understandable by other Venetian-variety speakers. This happened because of the very peculiar history of the area in which Triestin is still widely and actively spoken. Starlite 17:20, 28 Jun 2005 (UTC)
        • As I am the proposer, I can first af all assure that most of those users are unique ones.. I only did spread the request to some forums, and received back lots of interest, surely more than I first expected. Triestin is mostly called a dialect but, as I said before (and, I think, proved), its usage is much closer to a real language. It has not been considered as a "proper" language simply cause it picks up words from lots of sources, mixing them up using venetian ONLY AS A GRAMMAR BASE. If you want confirmation to this just ask a Venetian how many words like these (http://www.tuttotrieste.net/dizts.htm) there can be understood.. Please consider I'm not saying Venetians don't deserve their own page and their own respect, it's just like it isn't the same thing and, if you'd call it Venetian there'd probably be NO support from Triestin speakers. I think that the enthusiasm and support I received should be paid back somehow on Wikipedia. If you know a bit of history of the area I'm referring to, you would know it has been divided into borders for centuries, not having an official linguistical support didn't stop our "dialect" from being spolen until now, when Europe is opening the borders to its Eastern side, and I think that the Internet should be not only following this trend but looking into the future. I believe Wikipedia is the right place for this to happen. Arlon
          • Arlon, from a preliminary search of the internet, it seems that your opinion is out of touch with those of most speakers of Triestin. There are many websites written by Triestins talking about the "Triestin dialect... of Venet", "Triestin dialect", in fact many more than there are about "Triestin language". You have not proven anything, in fact you have just said "It is different, it has a long history and has absorbed from other languages" basically, but have not done anything like given us a translation of a text into one to compare to the translation in another (a good sample might be Pater Noster or the first article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights). Also, from the dictionary it looks like only about 5% of the words are from Albanian, German, Slovak, etc. --63.226.56.135 01:25, 29 Jun 2005 (UTC) (node)
And now I have evidence so you can judge for yourselves.
The first 3 lines of the "Our Father" in "Standard Venet", and in Triestin...
Triestin: Pare Nostro
Ke Te son nei xełi
Sia santificado el tuo nome
"Standard Venet": Pare Nostro
Ka Te si nei xełi
Sia santificà el to nome
My personal judgement: the differences are vastly exaggerated by Arlon. However, I do support the creation of a Venet Wikipedia. --Node ue 04:40, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't know where you got those translations but "K" is not used in Venetian nor in Triestin. As for "xeli" it's not even a word in those langueges. A better Triestin translation is: "Pare Nostro/ che te son in te'l ziel/ sia santificado el tuo nome" Starlite 14:30, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC)
    • Come one, that's a question of spelling. Dialects/ regional languages so often have divergent spellings that coexist... But come on, let's create a Venetian Wikipedia asap. By the way, change this heading from "Triestin" to "Triestin Venetian"? Caesarion 20:58, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC)
      • I disagree: "K" is not a letter in the Triestin alphabet, definetively not. "Xeli" is not a Triestin word, definetilvely not. "Che" is the word, not "Ke" - the sound may be the same, but "Ke" is just an abbreviation like "c u l8r" can be the abbraviation for "see you later", but nothing more. "Xeli" is not a Triestin word, in Triestin the only word with a "x" is "xe". And the only correct way to say "sky" in Triestin is "ziel". "Cel" or "ciel" is an italianized way to say it. It's not just a question of spelling. Starlite 20:05, 4 Jul 2005 (UTC)
        • Oh noes!!! Whatever shall WE DO!@!?!!? Sum1 used Venet speling 4 Trtisstn!!!11!one!!1eleven Obvsly "Xeli" is nt a Trsttn word~!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111 Nobody uses k!!!!!!!!11111111111111111 oh my!!!!!!111111111111111111 :p --Node ue 8 July 2005 07:33 (UTC)
In my opinion, Triestin is just a variant of Venetian, which could be a little different, but written is pratically the same; there are others variants of Venetian which are more different, for example those spoken in the island of Grado, so I oppose to this request--Klenje 6 July 2005 20:42 (UTC)

Venetian

Ladino

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]: en:User:ILVI, User:ladino (N), Nikos Gemenakis, David Kounio (N), Manuel Sanvicente/Aan27ms, User:Guler (N)
  • ISO code: lad (ISO 639)
  • Proposed domain: http://lad.wikipedia.org and http://lad.wiktionary.org
  • Relevant infos:
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:
    • Hey all! I'd like to formally request a Ladino Wiki lad.wikipedia.org and lad.wiktionary.org for the Ladino/Judeo-Spanish with ISO 639 code of 'lad'. The Ladino Komunita is quite alive and going through a renewal of sorts. There are live broadcasts in Ladino in Spanish and Israeli radio/tv and quite few periodicals are written in it. With regards, Jay B. (en:User:ILVI)
    • I can't speak Ladino, Mr. Bowks, but I wish you luck. Almafeta 6 July 2005 07:50 (UTC)
    • I don't speak Ladino either, but I do know a number of elderly people who once spoke the language, and feel that they would appreciate having others use it and learn in it. It is certainly a language worthy of its own Wikipedia and I fully support the creation of one. DavidL 7 July 2005
    • I don't speak Ladino, but I do speak Standard Spanish and can understand Ladino/Judeo-Spanish very well and I would like to read articles in it. I support the creation of its own wiki. Jazmin 7 July 2005 20:40 (UTC)
    • Muy interesante su idea. Si me puede dar información al respecto, desde Sevilla, procuraré difundir la idea y colaborar. Aan27ms 18:08, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Me yamo David Kounio de Salonik (Thessaloniki) Gresia. Ay 2 anios ke sto miembro de la Ladinokomunita. Tengo en Salonik un amigo ke sta ambezando Ladino ma ya save bastante agora, ma save mucho bien la Wikipedia (eskrivio muchas kozas).Se yama Nikos Gemenakis is su e-mail es: perceval@auth.gr. Le puedes eskrivir de mi parte ,el va kerer ayudar a eskrivir en Ladino a la Wikikipedia... kon mucho plazer.
      Kon amistad
      David Kounio de Salonik
    • <b>Weak problem: In the English Ladino talk page, it says that there are multiple names for this language, not just Ladino, some of which imply things about the language. Although it looks like you've got no objections, you'll need to show which is the most neutral and most widely accepted name for the language to get this proposal to work. Almafeta 08:06, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • No problem, though, because Ladino is the language as it is known in the ISO codes, the other names are descriptions of the language more or less, like djudeo-espanyol and djudezmo, which make reference to it being a language used by djudios but the language is a form of espanyol and the usual name for this form of espanyol (i.e. Spanish) is Ladino. So Ladino should be the name used, and the ISO code is "lad", also the SIL code is "lad".
        • Alrighty, then. By the way, with six users (three native speakers) to start the wiki off, multiple votes of support, and the only objection taken care of, I think it's safe to say your proposal will be accepted, Mr. Bowks... Almafeta 16:29, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Stellingwerfs

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]:
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis: 24.251.198.251
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki:
  • ISO code : stl
  • proposed domain: http://stl.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos: Stellingwerfs is spoke in the Stellingwerver region of Overijssel province in the netherlands.
    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia:
    • App. number of speakers: ???
    • Location(s) spoken: Stellingwerver region of Overijssel
    • Closely related languages: Drents, Overijssels, Gronings
    • External links to organizations that promote the language: Stichting Stellingwarver Schrieversronte
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:this page is written in Stellingwerfs
    • I recommend that you avoid this Balkanization, dear anonymous user; not any regional variant of Low Saxon has to get a Wikipedia on its own! Caesarion 07:42, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • I support this request, to some extent. I am against balkanisation, but as I see it there are several factors lined up in support of separate Wikipedias for the different Lowlands Saxon languages in the Netherlands:
  1. They are quite frequently referred to as languages in their own right by native speakers, cf "stellingwerver tael" or "grunnegers sproake".
  2. They are sufficiently different that Servien made the self-servien comment on the article about Zeeuws, "de inhoudt lykt eerlik eseit meer op Seeuws dan op Nedersaksich", which if my Veluws is up to date is a remark that the page looks more like it's in Zeeuws than Lowlands Saxon...
  3. Ethnologue has them as separate languages.
  4. They have separate bible translations. There are also separate translations of Asterix for each one, and there is also a small body of other separately-translated literature (such as The Little Prince)
  5. They each have established orthographies, and the established orthographies are sharply different to one another. I'm afraid that in a unified nds-nl Wikipedia, Servien would scare people off by making them write in his preferred (ie, Veluws-based) spelling. He already showed evidence of this towards the anonymous contributor: "Disse spellingswyse kump nie overeen mit de spellingswyse die an-eraojen is, dit kan tot preblemen lyden in de toekomst."
  6. The main issue here seems to be one of number of speakers in proportion to a separate Wikipedia. However, it should also be considered that the Netherlands is now a very connected nation, and you can find many promoters of Gronings, Stellingwarfs, Achterhoeks, Drents, Twents, etc. on the Internet -- in fact, there are websites for organisations promoting the languages.
  7. We have separate Wikipedias for Bosnian, Serbian, and Croatian, despite the fact that they are much more similar than Veluws and Gronings.
  8. So far, we have only had input from two native speakers of Lowlands Saxon varieties in the Netherlands: Servien, and an anonymous user. I propose that we hold off on the issue until we can get the opinions of more native speakers of the interested varieties.
    • Node ue 16:29, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Just to be sure, Servien is not writing bad Veluws: there is not one Veluws regional language. The language he uses is West-Veluws, Dutchbiblebeltish, which is indeed more Franconian in character than East-Veluws. Caesarion 22:23, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • Indeed -- I do not have a problem with the quality of his Veluws, just that he seeks to force all people to use his preferred orthography and suppress opposing opinions (see his recent actions on this page. --Node ue

Gronings

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]:
    • Proposer's user account in Meta and other wikis: 24.251.198.251
    • User accounts of others who are willing to work on the proposed wiki:
  • ISO code : gos
  • proposed domain: http://gos.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant infos: Gronings is spoke in Groningen Province of the netherlands.
    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia:
    • App. number of speakers: 600.000
    • Location(s) spoken: Groningen province and adjacent Ostfriesland area
    • Closely related languages: Drents, Overijssels, Stellingwerfs, some neighbouring dialects in germany
    • External links to organizations that promote the language: Stichting Grunneger Toal
  • Link to request on a mailing list:
  • Comments:this page is written in Gronings
    • Roughly the same objection as above, although Gronings is spoken more widely and is more different from other Low Saxon dialect groups than Stellingwervish is. If really a lot of people support this request we can think (mind: think) of opening a Gronings-Ostfrisisch Wikipedia. Caesarion 07:58, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Zealandic

  • People interested [if native speaker, please mark (N)]: Caesarion
  • Proposed domain: http://gem-zws.wikipedia.org
  • Relevant information:
    • Link to article on the language in an existing Wikipedia: en:Zealandic; nl:Zeeuws
    • App. number of speakers: 250.000
    • Locations spoken: Roughly the Zeeland province of the Netherlands, and the former island of Goeree-Overflakkee. Depends on the defintion.
    • Closely related languages: Dutch proper, Hollandic dialect, West Flemish. Some include Zealandic in the latter. Anyway Zealandic transites into both West Flemish and Hollandic by means of a dialect continuum.
    • External links to organizations that promote the language: De Zeêuwse taelsite
  • Link to request on mailing list:
  • Comments:
    • Some Dutch nationalists say Zealandic is a dialect of Dutch. Caesarion 07:58, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • It isn't really, but if people show their interest I will be willing to do a lot of work for it. Caesarion 07:58, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support. Do you speak Zeêuws, Caesarion? If you do, I hope you will create a Test Wikipedia immediately and we might search for support from others. If you don't, I think we should wait for some people who do. --Node ue
      • Yes Node, I can speak Zeêuws and since my parents live in Zeeland I will probably find some native speakers willing to contribute. I know of no current Wikipedians who speak it however; some might prefer a combined Zeelandic-West Flemish Wikipedia. Caesarion 19:57, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • De Test-Wikipedia, of iets wat-a d'rop trekt, staet ier.

Requests for new Wikiversity languages

English

I notice there is a de.wikiversity.org, but no en.wikiversity.org. This project is currently hosted at en.wikibooks.org, and I figured it might be wise to move it to its own wiki. I've modified the template somewhat, since I'm sure I don't need to explain what the English language is. :-)

If you are interested in creating, organising, maintaining, or administering this project, please add yourself to the list below with ~~~~ - Aya T C 17:32, 29 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

See also

Retrieved from "https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_new_languages&oldid=184640"