Introduce anonymous span creation procedure (#358). #603

cconcolato · 2018-01-29T23:41:45Z

Partially addresses #358.
Closes #634.

nigelmegitt · 2018-01-31T18:14:44Z

spec/ttml2.xml

-the anonymous span's parent time container is a parallel time container, then
+<p>The implicit duration of an anonymous span, a <el>set</el> element, or a <el>span</el> element whose children are exclusively text nodes, 
+is defined as follows: 
+if the parent time container is a parallel time container, then


I see there's a problem with the equivalent TTML1 text here: it says "if the span's parent time container ..." but the scope of this has been changed to it also covers anonymous spans and set elements. I think this here is better.

@nigelmegitt I raised that issue on TTML1 w3c/ttml1#335 and @palemieux has a PR.

skynavga

I will be pushing an update to this PR very shortly that addresses my comments.

skynavga · 2018-02-08T08:10:03Z

spec/ttml2.xml

@@ -17629,6 +17642,39 @@ based timing or event based timing in <bibref ref="smil3"/>, where the specific
 <specref ref="time-expression-semantics-smpte"/> apply.</p>
 </item>
 </ulist>
+<p>For the purposes of performing presentation processing, the <phrase role="strong">


This is wrong.

skynavga · 2018-02-08T08:10:26Z

spec/ttml2.xml

 parent time container is a sequential time container, then the implicit duration
 is equivalent to zero.</p>
 </item>
 <item>
-<p>The implicit duration of a <el>body</el>, <el>div</el>, <el>p</el>,
-<el>span</el>, <el>audio</el> or <el>image</el> element is determined in accordance to (1) whether
+<p>The implicit duration of a <el>body</el>, <el>div</el>, <el>p</el>, <el>audio</el> or <el>image</el> element, or a <el>span</el> whose children 


skynavga · 2018-02-08T08:10:33Z

spec/ttml2.xml

 the implicit duration is equivalent to the <code>indefinite</code>
-duration value as defined by <bibref ref="smil3"/>; if the anonymous span's
+duration value as defined by <bibref ref="smil3"/>; if the 


skynavga · 2018-02-08T08:10:43Z

spec/ttml2.xml

@@ -17590,16 +17602,17 @@ i.e., parallel containment always applies.</p>
 </issue>
 <ulist>
 <item>
-<p>The implicit duration of an anonymous span is defined as follows: if
-the anonymous span's parent time container is a parallel time container, then
+<p>The implicit duration of an anonymous span, a <el>set</el> element, or a <el>span</el> element whose children are exclusively text nodes, 


skynavga · 2018-02-08T08:11:31Z

spec/ttml2.xml

@@ -16697,6 +16697,32 @@ attribute are implied. In addition, a <el>layout</el> container element is impli
 the implied <el>region</el> element.</p>
 </note>
 </div4>
+<div4 id="anonymous-span-construction">


Moving this material closer to reference, and undoing bad changes.

skynavga · 2018-02-08T08:12:24Z

spec/ttml2.xml

+<p>For the purposes of performing presentation processing, the <phrase role="strong">
+<loc href="#procedure-construct-anonymous-spans">[construct anonymous spans]</loc></phrase> procedure is applied before resolving begin and end 
+times of content elements.</p>
+<p>The following example illustrates the timing semantics of anonymous spans that are children of sequential and parallel time containers. 


Putting this into new sub-section that is clearly non-normative.

skynavga · 2018-02-08T08:21:32Z

The original PR is trying to make too many changes of different types, the substantive ones being of a nature that we do not have agreement (and I believe were semantically wrong). This now a purely editorial PR. We can do other PRs to address specific substantive changes, such as defining implicit duration for <set>.

skynavga

Can now approve, mutatis mutandis.

Significant further changes made after my initial review.

nigelmegitt

This sentence:

For the purposes of performing presentation processing, the [construct anonymous spans] procedure is applied before resolving begin and end times of content elements.

which is present in TTML1 Third Edition ED §10.4 Time Intervals is important. I think it needs to be added.

nigelmegitt · 2018-02-08T13:16:53Z

spec/ttml2.xml

+</def>
+</gitem>
+<gitem id="procedure-perform-flow-transformation">
+<label>[perform flow transformation]</label>


This label is not used anywhere - the process is never called by anything, so giving it a name, while not a problem, is also not a solution.

@nigelmegitt the lack of a label is an inconsistency, since we have added labels elsewhere. Also, it is needed in this particular context to separate the new construct anonymous spans procedure from the flow transformation procedure.

@skynavga Regardless of the language, please make sure the prose in TTML2 yields that same semantics as in https://rawgit.com/w3c/ttml1/issue-339-br-implicit-duration-build/index.html

palemieux

This is completely different than what I had approved. Why the changes?

palemieux · 2018-02-09T02:30:03Z

spec/ttml2.xml

@@ -17590,16 +17602,17 @@ i.e., parallel containment always applies.</p>
 </issue>
 <ulist>
 <item>
-<p>The implicit duration of an anonymous span is defined as follows: if
-the anonymous span's parent time container is a parallel time container, then
+<p>The implicit duration of an anonymous span, a <el>set</el> element, or a <el>span</el> element whose children are exclusively text nodes, 


palemieux · 2018-02-09T02:30:35Z

spec/ttml2.xml

 parent time container is a sequential time container, then the implicit duration
 is equivalent to zero.</p>
 </item>
 <item>
-<p>The implicit duration of a <el>body</el>, <el>div</el>, <el>p</el>,
-<el>span</el>, <el>audio</el> or <el>image</el> element is determined in accordance to (1) whether
+<p>The implicit duration of a <el>body</el>, <el>div</el>, <el>p</el>, <el>audio</el> or <el>image</el> element, or a <el>span</el> whose children 


palemieux · 2018-02-14T06:29:51Z

At this point, this PR should match the changes made and approved in TTML1. Both specifications can be fixed post CR1 if needs be.

skynavga · 2018-02-14T07:00:05Z

@palemieux unfortunately, it cannot, since the changes in TTML are factually wrong (anonymous span creation does not occur before ISD construction)

nigelmegitt · 2018-02-14T11:01:49Z

anonymous span creation does not occur before ISD construction

@skynavga we already agreed that it must do, on the basis that knowledge of anonymous span timing is a requirement for ISD construction.

skynavga · 2018-02-14T18:08:19Z

@nigelmegitt @palemieux the problem is the following language, which contradicts the language in TTML1 2e (9.33) and TTML2 ED (11.3.1.4) where anonymous span construction occurs as the initial step of the flow transformation process, which occurs AFTER ISD construction, which occurs AFTER timing resolution.

+<p>For the purposes of performing presentation processing, the <phrase role="strong">
+[construct anonymous spans]</phrase> procedure is applied before resolving begin and end times of content elements.</p>

nigelmegitt · 2018-02-14T18:10:25Z

@skynavga why can anonymous span creation not be done both before and after ISD construction, i.e. before to establish which elements are in the ISD and after for flow transformation?

skynavga · 2018-02-14T18:12:57Z

@nigelmegitt it COULD be done before, but only if we don't use the phrase anonymous span, i.e., if we refer to an implicit duration in terms of text fragments that will eventually be mapped to an anonymous span

…mputed styles (#358).

skynavga · 2018-02-16T04:28:54Z

@nigelmegitt @palemieux i have completed my updates for this PR, which ended up with a few changes from the original PR:

animate needed same treatment as set;
animate and set need to use implicit duration of nearest time container ancestor;
audio and image need to work like br and anonymous span;
removing attempt to resolve Inconsistent implicit duration of singleton span in sequential container. ttml1#193, which doesn't appear to represent the consensus expressed there, namely, to take no action at this time; and, as it turns out, the attempt to deal with this in w3c/ttml1@62ca221 doesn't quite work, for multiple reasons, one being that text fragments may have been converted to anonymous spans already, another being that span may specify @timeContainer;

palemieux · 2018-02-16T06:43:34Z

@skynavga [construct anonymous spans] must be performed before 11.3.1.3 Intermediate Synchronic Document Construction since determining whether text node is temporally active requires wrapping it in an anonymous span, i.e. text nodes do not have timing semantics.

palemieux · 2018-02-16T06:49:39Z

@skynavga The implicit duration of spans that only contain text nodes must be specified to be equivalent to that of anonymous spans (time container semantics do not apply since text nodes do not have timing semantics)

palemieux · 2018-02-16T06:51:39Z

@skynavga The implicit duration of a set element should be set to that of anonymous span, as in TTML1, unless there is a reason not to.

skynavga · 2018-02-16T06:57:24Z

@palemieux no (it need not), no (we did not agree to take action on w3c/ttml1#193), and no (what you added in ttml1 for set is not correct)

skynavga · 2018-02-16T06:58:26Z

I have a feeling we will have to push PR out to CR2.

palemieux · 2018-02-16T07:02:10Z

no (it need not), no (we did not agree to take action on w3c/ttml1#193), and no (what you added in ttml1 for set is not correct)

You have not indicated why it is not correct. I am waiting.

skynavga · 2018-02-16T07:16:10Z

By not correct, I am referring to the implicit duration of set. What does the following mean?

<span timeContainer='seq'>
  <set begin='1s' end='3s' tts:color='red'>
  <span dur='2s'>one</span>
  <span dur='3s'>two</span>
</span>

I think it means that the color of the outer span is set to red from 1 to 3s in the syncbase of the outer span, which means that the implicit duration of set should follow the implicit duration of the outer span.

palemieux · 2018-02-16T20:39:11Z

@skynavga In the example at #603 (comment), the desired begin of one will be 3s according to TTML1 since:

the explicit end of set is 3s into the seq container
the implicit (and desired) begin of one is the desired end of the previous sibling.

As a result, the color will not change.

I am not saying this is ideal, but it is what TTML1 says.

To achieve the result you describe, the author would simply do the following:

<span>
<set begin='1s' end='3s' tts:color='red'/>
<span timeContainer='seq'>
  <span dur='2s'>one</span>
  <span dur='3s'>two</span>
</span>
</span>

or

<span>
  <set begin='1s' end='3s' tts:color='red'/>
  <span begin='0s' end='2s'>one</span>
  <span begin='2s' end='5s'>two</span>
</span>

Test cases below, which can be experimented with at http://sandflow.com/imsc1proc/index.html

set-duration-examples.zip

introduce anonymous span creation procedure (from TTML1 text)

72d5bbb

cconcolato added the pending approval label Jan 29, 2018

cconcolato self-assigned this Jan 29, 2018

cconcolato requested review from skynavga, palemieux and nigelmegitt January 29, 2018 23:41

palemieux approved these changes Jan 31, 2018

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nigelmegitt previously approved these changes Jan 31, 2018

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nigelmegitt mentioned this pull request Jan 31, 2018

Misuse of span in sentences w3c/ttml1#335

Closed

skynavga requested changes Feb 8, 2018

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Address comments (#603).

59b8c85

skynavga added substantive editorial and removed pending approval substantive labels Feb 8, 2018

skynavga approved these changes Feb 8, 2018

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skynavga changed the title ~~introduce anonymous span creation procedure (from TTML1 text)~~ Introduce anonymous span creation procedure (#358). Feb 8, 2018

nigelmegitt requested changes Feb 8, 2018

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palemieux requested changes Feb 9, 2018

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skynavga added 2 commits February 11, 2018 21:16

Merge branch 'master' into issue-0358-ttml1-0310

0d3f62e

Specify implicit duration for element (#634).

435bb70

palemieux added the member plans to object to CR1 if not resolved label Feb 12, 2018

skynavga added 2 commits February 15, 2018 21:03

Merge text involving implicit duration of audio, br, and image (#358).

6072a53

Update note(s) regarding eager construction of anonymous spans and co…

e85001d

…mputed styles (#358).

skynavga assigned skynavga and unassigned cconcolato Feb 16, 2018

skynavga modified the milestones: CR2, CR1 Feb 16, 2018

skynavga added substantive and removed editorial labels Feb 16, 2018

Address PR comments (#603 (comment), etc).

6b684d9

palemieux closed this Feb 17, 2018

palemieux reopened this Feb 17, 2018

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skynavga added 2 commits February 16, 2018 22:13

Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master' into issue-0358-ttml1-0310

0ebbe0d

Remove bad merge artifacts.

ba9179a

nigelmegitt approved these changes Feb 19, 2018

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Merge branch 'master' into issue-0358-ttml1-0310

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skynavga merged commit 5c6a9c7 into master Feb 19, 2018

skynavga removed their assignment Feb 19, 2018

skynavga removed the member plans to object to CR1 if not resolved label Feb 19, 2018

skynavga deleted the issue-0358-ttml1-0310 branch March 9, 2018 21:04

Introduce anonymous span creation procedure (#358). #603

Introduce anonymous span creation procedure (#358). #603

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