Wikiquote:Village pump

Community portal Welcome

Reference desk Request an article

Village pump Archives

Administrators' noticeboard Report vandalism • Votes for deletion

Wikiquote discussion pages (edit) see also: requests
Village pump comment | history | archive General policy discussions and proposals, requests for permissions and major announcements.	Reference desk comment | history | archive Questions and discussions about specific quotes.

Archives

Welcome, newcomers and baffled oldtimers! This is the place if you (a) have a question about Wikiquote and how it works or (b) a suggestion for improving Wikiquote. Just click the link above "create a new topic", and then you can place your submission at the bottom of the list, and someone will attempt to answer it for you. (If you have a question about who said what, go to the reference desk instead.)

Before asking a question, check if it's answered by the Wikiquote:FAQ or other pages linked from Wikiquote:Help. Latest news on the project would be available at Wikiquote:Community portal and Wikiquote:Announcements.

Before answering a newcomer's question abruptly, consider rereading Please do not bite the newcomers.

Questions and answers will not remain on this page indefinitely (otherwise it would very soon become too long to be editable). After a period of time with no further activity, information will be moved to other relevant sections of Wikiquote, (such as the FAQ pages) or placed in one of the village pump archives if it is of general interest, or deleted. Please consider dating and titling your discussions so as to facilitate this.

---

Reminder! Vote closing soon to fill vacancies of the first U4C

You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Dear all,

The voting period for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) is closing soon. It is open through 10 August 2024. Read the information on the voting page on Meta-wiki to learn more about voting and voter eligibility. If you are eligible to vote and have not voted in this special election, it is important that you vote now.

Why should you vote? The U4C is a global group dedicated to providing an equitable and consistent implementation of the UCoC. Community input into the committee membership is critical to the success of the UCoC.

Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well.

In cooperation with the U4C,

-- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 15:30, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Explanatory footnotes?

How can I add an explanatory footnote?, like can be done at Wikipedia here. Thank you. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 20:31, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

To quote Wikiquote:Templates#Quotes_by_people, a good place for clarification is the line below the line for the source of the quote:

* English Quotation

** Source of the quote. (with a date of source, when known)

** Optional clarifications, notes on context, etc.

Not quite what you asked, but I hope it's helpful. HouseOfChange (talk) 19:45, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

To add to HouseOfChange's helpful tip - at WQ, we try to keep all notes with the quote, rather than at the bottom of the page. So we actually discourage the use of footnotes. ~ UDScott (talk) 20:35, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

I have done something similar here (scroll down to the last quote by John Naughton). Nobody ever complained about that and it complies to the requirement above. I think that might help. - Emilija Knezevic (talk) 19:08, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Actually, now that you've brought it up - I would actually change what you did there to have the Douglas Adams bit as a second sub-bullet to the quote, rather than a footnote. ~ UDScott (talk) 19:35, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, I have no problem doing that. But do I mark the place of the footnote within the quote with a bullet (or a number), because it is marked in the source, and WQ should preserve what is said in the source? - Emilija Knezevic (talk) 20:46, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

What are human categorisations and what theme pages apply exclusively to humans?

In addition to the disambiguation page for race, in keeping with Wikipedia we now have two race pages, one for Race (human categorisation) and another for Race (biology). So what exactly are human categorisations? If you type in human categorizations on Wikipedia does anything come up? Are we suggesting that humans uniquely possess race? CensoredScribe (talk) 15:33, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

There are Wikipedia pages for both: Race (biology) and Race (human categorization). The definitions of each are spelled out in more detail there. ~ UDScott (talk) 15:37, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I asked for the definition of "human categorizations", can anyone here provide one and cite their source? I'm curious what other pages are listed as a type of (human categorizations) or if this technical terminology in parenthesis is exclusive to this one particular page, which doesn't make it sound very technical. Aren't jobs and religions ways of classifying people, so why are those pages titled differently from race if they only apply to people? CensoredScribe (talk) 23:05, 16 August 2024 (UTC)

I see your point. In my opinion, the more proper place to ask that question would be the Wikipedia Race (human categorization) talk page. And about the Wikiquote, the debate here would be "Does Wikiquote have to keep with Wikipedia?". I am not sure if there would be anybody to debate that. - Emilija Knezevic (talk) 19:48, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Coming soon: A new sub-referencing feature – try it!

Hello. For many years, community members have requested an easy way to re-use references with different details. Now, a MediaWiki solution is coming: The new sub-referencing feature will work for wikitext and Visual Editor and will enhance the existing reference system. You can continue to use different ways of referencing, but you will probably encounter sub-references in articles written by other users. More information on the project page.

We want your feedback to make sure this feature works well for you:

• Please try the current state of development on beta wiki and let us know what you think.
• Sign up here to get updates and/or invites to participate in user research activities.

Wikimedia Deutschland’s Technical Wishes team is planning to bring this feature to Wikimedia wikis later this year. We will reach out to creators/maintainers of tools and templates related to references beforehand.

Please help us spread the message. --Johannes Richter (WMDE) (talk) 10:36, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Sign up for the language community meeting on August 30th, 15:00 UTC

Hi all,

The next language community meeting is scheduled in a few weeks—on August 30th at 15:00 UTC. If you're interested in joining, you can sign up on this wiki page.

This participant-driven meeting will focus on sharing language-specific updates related to various projects, discussing technical issues related to language wikis, and working together to find possible solutions. For example, in the last meeting, topics included the Language Converter, the state of language research, updates on the Incubator conversations, and technical challenges around external links not working with special characters on Bengali sites.

Do you have any ideas for topics to share technical updates or discuss challenges? Please add agenda items to the document here and reach out to ssethi(__AT__)wikimedia.org. We look forward to your participation!

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:20, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Abubakar Muhammad Zakaria

Hi, sorry if i posted this on wrong page. I don't know what English Wikiquotes policy is about very long quotes. This article contain very long quote. The quote should be verified also as it was created by an IP, now globally blocked for long term abuse, probably an LTA created it. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 18:47, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Deleted it. Thanks for posting. If you do want to see our policy on length as it relates to quotability: WQ:LENGTH. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:22, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Very bad quotes selected as QOTD for purely political propaganda

Hello,

I once again have to bring the community's attention to User:Kalki's parochial use of Wikiquote's Main Page as a propaganda tool for the Democratic Party.

List of Kalki's single-handed QOTD selections in the last 4 days in a row:

• August 21, 2024 -- quote by Joe Biden (absolutely unremarkable and unmemorable, nothing new in it)
• August 22, 2024 -- quote by Michelle Obama (not exactly a "quote", more like a speech)
• August 23, 2024 -- quote by Oprah Winfrey (absolutely unremarkable and unmemorable, nothing new in it)
• August 24, 2024 -- quote by Kamala Harris (absolutely unremarkable and unmemorable, nothing new in it)

As Kalki keeps selecting vapid and empty "quotes" for the QOTD, for political purposes, and cannot be trusted to be balanced, I should think the community needs to take action.

While I would not suggest blocking Kalki (though he is seriously hurting Wikiquote's neutrality and literacy-level), I would recommend we implement a new rule according to which the QOTD must be quoted in books (to be of actual quotes that have passed the test of time). At least this would both improve the quality of the quotes and remove the incentive to use the QOTD for purely political propaganda. ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:13, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The reality is that this process is not only de facto personality-based but it's actually the de jure process. I think this is a serious problem with a pretty fundamental part of the site and should be changed to one that is voted on by the community or that has rotating individuals responsible for its implementation. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 13:19, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

Many users from the Wikiquote community have already proposed and !voted for different quotes for each of the above-mentioned days (see August 21, August 22, August 23, August 24), Kalki just chooses to ignore them (preferring instead his own selections, which no one had the chance to !vote for or oppose). ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:45, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

The events of the political processes of the United States in the past month have been quite extraordinarily historical, and I have selected notable quotes of notable persons involved in those processes in some of these recent days — all of the 4 quotes cited as "very bad quotes" were from very widely noted and very widely lauded statements from the 4 days of the 2024 DNC.

Earlier in the month I had quoted one of the most notable statements of the much maligned Republican president of a century ago:

Being a politician is a poor profession. Being a public servant is a noble one.

~ Herbert Hoover ~

Last month on the 4th of July, I selected on of the more notable statements of one of Republican Ronald Reagan's favorite Republican presidents:

We are not likely to improve our own condition or help humanity very much until we come to the sympathetic understanding that human nature is about the same everywhere, that it is rather evenly distributed over the surface of the earth, and that we are all united in a common brotherhood. We can only make America first in the true sense which that means by cultivating a spirit of friendship and good will, by the exercise of the virtues of patience and forbearance, by being "plenteous in mercy," and through progress at home and helpfulness abroad standing as an example of real service to humanity.

~ Calvin Coolidge ~

Last month, on the 15th, after the attempt on Trump's life by a deranged individual, and before he dropped out of the race, I quoted a Biden statement in response to that:

The choice we make in this election will shape the future of America and the world for decades to come. I believe that with all my soul. I know that millions of my fellow Americans believe it as well. And some have a different view as to the direction our country should take. Disagreement is inevitable in American democracy. It is part of human nature. Politics must never be a killing field. I believe politics ought to be an arena for peaceful debate, to pursue justice, to make decisions guided by the Declaration of Independence and our constitution. We stand for an America not of extremism and fury, but of decency and grace. All of us now face a time of testing as the election approaches. The higher the stakes, the more fervent the passion becomes. This places an added burden on each of us to ensure no matter how strong our convictions, we must never descend into violence.

~ Joe Biden ~

On the 29th I quoted the highly respected UN Secretary-Generals Hammarskjöld on a statement relevant to his times, and our times, and all time:

It is when we all play safe that we create a world of utmost insecurity. It is when we all play safe that fatality will lead us to our doom. It is in the "dark shade of courage" alone that the spell can be broken.

~ Dag Hammarskjöld ~

There are people who like to falsely and foully frame everything they like or dislike in petty pissant partisan terms — and those who can see clearly beyond them. One notable Republican, among the many who spoke at the DNC, as well as very publicly in recent months and years:

I'm going to focus my attention on the millions of Republicans and independents at home that are sick and tired of making excuses for Donald Trump.
If Republicans are being intellectually honest with ourselves, our party is not civil or conservative. It’s chaotic and crazy. And the only thing left to do is dump Trump … Let me be clear to my Republican friends at home: If you vote for Kamala Harris in 2024 you’re not a Democrat, you’re a patriot.

• Geoff Duncan, as quoted in "Georgia Republican: Voting for Harris means ‘you’re a patriot’", The Hill (21 August 2024)

I will note, that I myself, many years ago, though never highly partisan at any point, WAS for many years actually REGISTERED as Republican — and had NEVER voted Democratic in ANY of several presidential elections in which I had voted, but switched to registering as an Independent when I saw the party was clearly becoming far too thoroughly corrupted in various ways for me to wish to have any further official attachment to it.

Though I am willing to tolerate and accept a great deal of error, ignorance and confusion in any living being, I will confess have an extremely strong bias for favoring actual truth rather than falsehoods and outright lies made to sound like truth to those with shallow and small levels of awareness or attention to actual facts. I am well aware that often makes me persona non grata to those who prefer various vapidities and outright lies to many forms of truth, but it is a fate I am willing to accept.

Busy as I am with many projects, I was just about to leave for most of the day when I noticed the above comments on waking my computer — and have made a response for now — but I do not expect to be back soon. ~ ♞☤☮♌︎Kalki ⚚⚓︎⊙☳☶⚡ 15:33, 24 August 2024 (UTC) + tweaks

This gibberish treats your fellow editors with utter contempt. Ficaia (talk) 15:44, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

There is no way that you believe that the voluminous Kamala Harris excerpt is actually quotable material. A quotation should be something that someone could plausibly memorize and attribute to someone: a few sentences at most, with a clear point. Issues with your QotD selections go back for several years and it seems like you can't or won't listen to that criticism. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:11, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree. Wikiquote should not be a record of breaking news. Wikipedia:In the news is shaped by dozens of editors and is a much better source for that.

Kalki has a long history of abusing his admin privileges to shoe-horn in his own picks at the last second. As he is the only admin who edits QOTD, this means he effectively controls the process. He also cannot or will not respond coherently to questions/concerns. This makes him unfit to be admin IMO.

I think access to upcoming QOTD pages should be extended to all editors with 1000+ edits, so decisions about quote selection, image choice, etc can be made by everyone actively involved in Wikiquote. Ficaia (talk) 15:42, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

In our small community, typically we let slide a few questionable actions by generally good users (Deuteronomy 25:4) but the problem here is that QOTD is very prominent on our home page. Taking care of QOTD every day is a lot of work, and in general Kalki has chosen good quotes, although on occasion some political drums get pounded -- in this case, over a run of several days. Wouldn't it be possible for any other admin to respond in real time to complaints about the main page? Let's work on solving the problem here, without attacking our valued and very hard-working admin Kalki. HouseOfChange (talk) 16:09, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Kalki clearly says above he doesn't think he's done anything wrong. Obviously that is a problem. A refusal to address concerns is unacceptable in an admin. Ficaia (talk) 17:20, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Kalki clearly says above that he believes his quotes averaged over time show a balance of different points of view. So, what do we want to see happen going forward. IMO if admins can correct mainpage errors then any bad QOTD can be corrected. HouseOfChange (talk) 17:49, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Do you find his argument persuasive? Ficaia (talk) 03:14, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I am persuaded that Kalki makes a real effort to be balanced. I am not persuaded that the people objecting to a four-day stretch of pro-Harris eloquence are objecting because they prefer lies or vapidity to truth. I also object to having such a four-day stretch on our homepage, because I think it looks bad for the project, not because I am "highly partisan" in an anti-Harris direction. Au contraire, as the seasick Frenchman said when asked if he had dined. HouseOfChange (talk) 21:11, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is attacking Kalki as such: there are problems with his behavior and attitude and it's okay to point them out. No one is denying the long-term investment of time that he's put into this site, nor is anyone saying that all of his editing is problematic. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:10, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I apologize that I implied otherwise. Looking for solutions, would a length limit on QOTD begin to address some concerns? 22:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC) HouseOfChange (talk) 22:22, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

It would be a start. There have been several criticisms of Kalki's ownership of QotD and that's one of them: that excessively long not-quotable quotations are chosen. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:34, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

Making it a requirement that the QOTD has to be from a book is blatantly preferential to a particular medium; plenty of the most famous quotations were first published in newspaper articles and nowadays a television news interview is the more likely medium for a politician rather than print journalism. Would you seriously suggest quotes from the moon landing aren't sufficiently memorable because they were made on television and not in print? CensoredScribe (talk) 15:28, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

For today's QOTD, Kalki again chose to use a quote he suggested only at the last second and which consequently no one else had a chance to vote on. See here. Ficaia (talk) 10:39, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Announcing the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee

Original message at wikimedia-l. You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki. Please help translate to your language

Hello all,

The scrutineers have finished reviewing the vote and the Elections Committee have certified the results for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C) special election.

I am pleased to announce the following individual as regional members of the U4C, who will fulfill a term until 15 June 2026:

• North America (USA and Canada)
  • Ajraddatz

The following seats were not filled during this special election:

• Latin America and Caribbean
• Central and East Europe (CEE)
• Sub-Saharan Africa
• South Asia
• The four remaining Community-At-Large seats

Thank you again to everyone who participated in this process and much appreciation to the candidates for your leadership and dedication to the Wikimedia movement and community.

Over the next few weeks, the U4C will begin meeting and planning the 2024-25 year in supporting the implementation and review of the UCoC and Enforcement Guidelines. You can follow their work on Meta-Wiki.

On behalf of the U4C and the Elections Committee,

RamzyM (WMF) 14:06, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Re: The Vector 2022 skin as the default in two weeks?

A two minute-long video about Vector 2022

Hello everyone, I'm reaching out on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation Web team responsible for the MediaWiki skins. I'd like to revisit the topic of making Vector 2022 the default here on English Wikiquote. I did post a message about this almost two years ago (where you can find all the details about the skin), but we didn't finalize it back then.

What happened in the meantime? We built dark mode and different options for font sizes, and made Vector 2022 the default on most wikis, including all other Wikiquotes. With the not-so-new V22 skin being the default, existing and coming features, like dark mode and temporary accounts respectively, will become available for logged-out users here.

So, if no large concerns are raised, we will deploy Vector 2022 here in two weeks, in the week of September 16. Do let me know if you have any questions. Thank you! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)