Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Noah Robertson (musician)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎ per WP:SNOW. The Wordsmith^{Talk to me} 01:47, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Noah Robertson (musician)

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This is a biography of a thirteen-year-old boy. The only claim to supposed notability (badly sourced) is that he won a prize in an obscure busking competition, about which the Australian media seems to say next to nothing. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:04, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Australia. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:04, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep @AndyTheGrump: it is feeling to me like uncollegial WP:FOLLOWING - you took two articles that I started to AfD in the space of one day. This article has reliable sources which are non-trivial. 1, 2 I have no idea why you think that a fourteen year old cannot be notable. The Berkshire Eagle (Published daily since 1892) is clearly a reliable source so I removed your unreliable tags unless you can state why the source is unreliable. Lightburst (talk) 22:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why on earth do you think that local media for Berkshire, Massachusetts would be reliable for content concerning obscure busking contests in Australia? They clearly aren't if they are claiming that this child won the event. He didn't. He won the 'primary' section: presumably for primary-school-age children. [1] I have no idea why you are trying to concoct 'notability' for a thirteen-or-fourteen-year-old busker, but it seems grossly inappropriate to me, given the questionable sourcing, the lack of evidence that the events he competed in are of any real significance, and the obvious privacy concerns in revealing personal details about a minor. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have added sources - I think this is clearly a notable guitar player/songwriter based on the RS. A reliable source can report on events from other places but I added sources that call out the same wins. I also reverted your removal of the win when he was ten, and added an additional source for it. \ Lightburst (talk) 23:37, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Coverage of Roberson doesn't come within a mile of meeting WP:MUSICBIO. None of the sources cited even offer significant commentary on his performances. He's a kid who's won a couple of obscure prizes for kids, that's all. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Either SNG or GNG has to be met per our WP:N guide. The article has multiple non-trivial RS about the person so they meet GNG. There are no BLP or privacy concerns so the "think of the children" argument is a non-starter. Lightburst (talk) 00:31, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I want advice on WP:BLP, I'll ask for advice from someone who doesn't think that the name of a non-notable younger sister of a kid who's won a couple of kids' busking competition belongs in an article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:38, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Redacted)... but I did not contest your removal. FYI: it is normal to mention siblings and children in articles but I guess if you are adversarial you can find all sorts of threads to pull. I will move on after I finish adding archives so that others can read the non-trivial RS. Lightburst (talk) 00:53, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Read WP:BLPNAME, and the accompanying note 'e'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PRS Guitars is one of the three major guitar manufacturing companies in the U.S. and in 2023 they named Noah Robertson as one of their artists. It is a big deal especially for someone so young. When I added the information, the nominator erased it twice calling it "promotional". And now the nominator threatens me with ANI if I restore it. So I have to leave now to avoid this unnecessary drama. Here is more drama about this subject. 1 Lightburst (talk) 02:38, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is an AfD discussion. One where notability is demonstrated through significant coverage in independent sources. Which doesn't include guitar company websites plugging their own products. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:46, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: I'm not sure winning junior music competitions are what we're looking for... "Congratulations to our Year 7 student Noah Robertson who won first place in the ... guitar gift pack and $500 Colemans Music voucher." This is not notable. I mean, the article has sourcing but winning a guitar and 500 bucks isn't what gets you a wikipedia article. Oaktree b (talk) 00:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The WP:GNG provisions on sourcing are subject to a second test: whether the subject warrants a standalone page. A few policies bear on this to say no: (1) WP:BLP1E. The article uses newspaper sources to describe as notable for winning a (non-notable) busking competition, but since that's the limit of his notability (at the moment), that's one event and he should not have a page here. (2) The busking competition would fall under WP:NEVENTS, which appears to be covered in "the brief, often light and amusing (for example bear-in-a-tree or local-person-wins-award), stories that frequently appear in the back pages of newspapers" per WP:ROUTINE. It's not notable, and even if it were, the notability does not transfer to its winner. And (3) we would want to rely on more than human interest reporting per WP:NEWSORG, which states that "[h]uman interest reporting is generally not as reliable as news reporting, and may not be subject to the same rigorous standards of fact-checking and accuracy." Bottom line: The subject may become notable in the future, but under these policies he is not right now. Dclemens1971 (talk) 03:00, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: with no prejudice against draftifying it for the reasons outlined by Dclemens1971. TarnishedPath^talk 05:43, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Thanks TarnishedPath for the draft idea. I would accept a draft or to have the article moved to my userspace. The AfD was canvassed at WPO so I have no confidence in the fairness of the AfD result. The AfD is also discussed at WP:ANI right now and that may allow others to arrive here in an unorganic way. Lightburst (talk) 05:56, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lightburst, I only think possible draft because it is apparent that he might be attending some contest in Berkshire. Who knows what may come of that though. TarnishedPath^talk 06:07, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

and if this does go to draft, I'd expect it to be submitted through AfC if/when editor/s felt it was ready for mainspace. TarnishedPath^talk 06:08, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ps, I was aware that the article was being discussed at WP:ANI as that is how I found my way here. Although I might have found my way here anyway given it was included in the deletion sorting for Australia. TarnishedPath^talk 06:11, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per the careful analysis of Dclemens1971. I also want to say that I resent Lightburst's preemptive strike above against "the fairness of the AfD result" and against commenters here as potentially "unorganic". Why couldn't people just as well have their attention drawn by WPO and/or ANI and then vote Keep? Way to assume bad faith. Bishonen | tålk 10:13, 10 July 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Bishonen I am sure you have read about the low opinion of me and my work at WPO. It is not assuming bad faith to believe someone when they gin up the WPO regulars with anti-Lightburst rhetoric in a thread called...wait for it..."Crap articles". Lightburst (talk) 15:22, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, it seems that WPO has a bit of a broad audience and I don't think one could take a casual comment by a user of that website that they had started an AfD as an invitation to only those that would vote delete. TarnishedPath^talk 10:59, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:NOTJUSTYET. There's no deadline, and chances look promising the subject will merit an article in the future. I would also echo Dclemens1971 spot on analysis and rationale. Isaidnoway (talk) 12:17, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
delete This is verging on WP:PRODIGY territory. I see no claim that he has reached adult levels of accomplishment, and winning a junior competition is not terribly remarkable. Mangoe (talk) 13:29, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete We have 13 year old child stars with demonstrated notability. This one, as yet, has not evidently done so. Maybe they'll have some bright and famous career in the future (and good luck to them), at which point we write about them. But as yet, I'm not seeing it. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:06, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per Dclemens. Queen of Hearts ^talk 20:33, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.