Talk:Trees of New York City

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Trees of New York City article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

New York City High‑importance

	New York City portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Horticulture and Gardening High‑importance

	Gardening portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Horticulture and Gardening, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Horticulture and Gardening on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Horticulture and GardeningWikipedia:WikiProject Horticulture and GardeningTemplate:WikiProject Horticulture and GardeningHorticulture and gardening articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tree of Life High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tree of Life, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of taxonomy and the phylogenetic tree of life on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Tree of LifeWikipedia:WikiProject Tree of LifeTemplate:WikiProject Tree of Lifetaxonomic articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Article structure ideas

I. Expanding Lenape/Native American use of wood/trees Section
II. Tree planting in New Amsterdam? New York? (Were there colonial efforts to plant trees beyond agriculture?) What were the Colonial orchard efforts?
III. History of NYC government run tree plantings (1600-today)
IV. When did the last orchard in the city limits of New York City get razed?
V. Non-Profits organizations that support NYC street trees and trees in public places. Which was the first one?
VI. Notable trees of New York City, based on this list: https://www.nycgovparks.org/facilities/great-trees
- Put this before the list of trees growing in NYC

Potentially finding trees to add to this category: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Individual_trees_in_New_York_City

Notable trees

We should probably have a separate section for notable trees, past and present, in all boroughs, and maybe individual trees as well as small groves, or perhaps that is another section. I feel just having this section started would help jumpstart efforts, and it could end up being quite a long and interesting list.--Pharos (talk) 03:57, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The table

We should probably find a consensus about what should be included in the table and how to present it. I went to do some additional work to it but decided to scrap it because I wasn't sure I was taking it in the right direction.

1. The first thing, I suppose, is to confirm that yes, we're really trying to include all verifiable tree species that exist in NYC?

I assume yes, or at least those that are actually living and outside, and maybe excluding those that are extremely rare like only in a botanical garden. If the number under these criteria runs to thousands of species, though, then we should probably reevaluate.--Pharos (talk) 19:42, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with excluding the rare botanical species. Besides those, I think it would be informative to include a somewhat comprehensive list in the table. It's not in the thousands. I'm guessing it is under 300. --Wil540 art (talk) 03:39, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

2. If yes, based on what sources? We have several lists of street trees cited presently, which is great (although a couple of the official sources conflict -- not sure what to make of that). Then there's e.g. Prospect Park's TreeKeeper page, and the Central Park Entire iOS app. But should we still try to be exhaustive if there isn't an overall authoritative source (or even data for every park)? Granted, if we can secure lists from CP, PP, and a couple outliers like maybe Inwood Hill Park and something around Jamaica Bay, Pelham Bay, etc., then that will give pretty good coverage. If we're not trying to include absolutely everything, we should be clear about what we are including.

Maybe that should be an additional column, major parks where the species currently lives.--Pharos (talk) 19:22, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm curious if the trees species are park specific. I always thought the species are rather spread out and diverse throughout the parks. --Wil540 art (talk) 03:42, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

3. Regardless of the sourcing, where should the sources exist? If there's a single source for a whole column (like a list of all invasive species), it can probably be cited in the table heading, but for the species it's less clear. Maybe just keep piling sources there in the text before the table rather than cite, say, the Prospect Park page over and over?

I would cite as much as possible in the preceding paragraph and in the table headings. We need sources for how the different species exist in NYC, not so much for their inherent characteristics like size and fruit-bearing, which go on the species articles themselves.--Pharos (talk) 19:16, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

4. Does it make sense to separate the list of street trees from a list of other trees growing in NYC, since the street trees list is clear and bounded?

There are ~~168~~ 234 total street tree species, and about 76 are approved. If the overall number including non-street trees isn't more than a few hundred, I would say keep them all together, while still marking them all.--Pharos (talk) 19:39, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree on keeping them together. --Wil540 art (talk) 03:44, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

5. Do any additional columns make sense?

In general I'm in favor of fewer rather than more columns, and I've already merged a couple. The one important column I believe we are missing is % in the overall tree census, so people can sort from common to rare species. I'm not familiar with all of the surveys, it may only be possible to give this number in regard to street trees or another subset, but I still feel it would be a very valuable number.--Pharos (talk) 19:11, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

% in the overall tree census would be a great column. I'm also in favor of fewer rather than more columns, thanks for pruning it. --Wil540 art (talk) 03:47, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I am favorable to minimizing columns. Create two columns with 1 char or icon for native/non and invasive/non. The picture of each tree makes the table take more of the page. Trying to find a better way to show all the colorful variety without making the table difficult to use. Still thinking... - DutchTreat (talk) 09:56, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

— Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 11:45, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Stuyvesant Pear Tree and Hangman’s Elm subsections

I believe these shouldn't be independent subsections, but should be merged to the eventual table at #Notable trees and their respective main articles. I'm also not sure 'American use of trees' fits as a heading, maybe instead have one for colonial era and another for US/modern.--Pharos (talk) 17:46, 5 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I support the merging or simplification of the subsections. Prune it. --Wil540 art (talk) 03:51, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I pruned it. Might still need work. --Wil540 art (talk) 21:40, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead photo??

Do you all think there should be a lead photo? I think a satellite shot of NYC in summer could be descriptive as it shows the green foliage. Here are a couple:

--Wil540 art (talk) 21:43, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

THis works, I guess I might have a slight preference for the second photo.--Pharos (talk) 18:27, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looking again at the current caption for the lead photo, I find it misleading. This view would not be seen by the human eye in space. The image is "false-color" using parts of the near-infrared spectrum to boost the green channel in the RBG. To the casual reader, the green saturation could give the impression that the landscape is more verdant than the reality. This is one proposal, but I'm open to other suggestions:

Current: The urban forest of New York City is visible from space, seen here in a 2002 photograph taken by NASA's Terra satellite.

Proposed:The urban forest of New York City highlighted in a satellite image from 2002 taken by NASA's Terra satellite. The near-infrared bands enhance areas of vegetation in false color. (Derived from text at Wildlife of the Bronx)

More details on ASTER, the instrument used to create the image. - DutchTreat (talk) 11:15, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is a good point @DutchTreat. I think the clarity you propose in your updated caption is beneficial to the article. It is also very interesting to learn about ASTER. Wil540 art (talk) 13:43, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This edit sounds beneficial to me as well! Emjackson42 (talk) 14:59, 22 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Change completed. Thanks for the support. DutchTreat (talk) 11:51, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cherry Street and colonial trees

As far as I can tell, the cherries of Cherry Street were sweet cherries (cherries commercially eaten today) planted on the estate of David Provost Sr. They do not appear to have been the native species black cherries. It looks like the area became known later as the "Cherry Garden" in English times and one Richard Sacket operated a tavern there.--Pharos (talk) 18:16, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Literature and in popular culture

In addition to A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, another significant work appears to be Washington Irving's story Wolfert Webber and its buttonwood tree.--Pharos (talk) 18:24, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read the story? --Wil540 art (talk) 15:39, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Trees in NYC parks list

There could be a section that is a list of NYC's biggest parks and how many trees they have in them. For example, Central Park holds approximately 20,000, 150 tree species, 843 acres. Prospect Park's 585 acres are home to 30,000 trees of more than 175 species.^[1] Would that be interesting? --Wil540 art (talk) 23:32, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Prospect Park Trees - Prospect Park Alliance". Prospect Park.

Is the Arthur Ross Pinetum an arboretum?

@Emjackson42: Is the Arthur Ross Pinetum an arboretum eligible of being added to the list of Arboreta? @Jim.henderson: suggested it during wikiwednesday. https://www.centralparknyc.org/locations/arthur-ross-pinetum --Wil540 art (talk) 23:31, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Wil540 art: and @Jim.henderson:, I don't see why not! It's not included in the Morton Register of Arboreta (http://arbnet.org/morton-register), which is why I didn't include it initially, but inclusion in that list isn't a requirement for something to be an arboreta in the traditional sense, I would say. Emjackson42 (talk) 13:10, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The State of the NYC Urban Forest - The Nature Conservancy

https://www.nature.org/content/dam/tnc/nature/en/photos/TheStateoftheNYCUrbanForest.pdf

Street tree damage via security tags

This and other info on tree damage could be added to the "Trees growing in New York City" section. Perhaps a Threat to Trees or Tree damage subsection. Article: Security firms are turning NYC's street trees into surveillance posts for guards https://gothamist.com/news/security-firms-are-turning-nycs-street-trees-into-surveillance-posts-for-guards Wil540 art (talk) 05:32, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Prospect Park Trees - Prospect Park Alliance". Prospect Park.

[1]