Talk:Fire basket

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:13, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

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A fire basket used in heraldry

• ... that fire baskets were once used to mark the main route through Danish waters from the North Sea to the Baltic? Source: Hahn-Pedersen, Morten (April 2003). Jerzy Litwin (ed.). Reports on Baltic Lights – Denmark (PDF). Gdańsk: Polish Maritime Museum in Gdańsk. p. 81. ISBN 83-919514-0-5. {{cite book}}: |work= ignored (help)CS1 maint: date and year (link)
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Blue bloods in college basketball

5x expanded by Evrik (talk). Self-nominated at 19:24, 16 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Fire basket; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• @Evrik: I have had no luck finding the information in the hook in the given source. Also for citation 5 in the article, I cannot find any information about fire baskets. Then there is this Sentence "During the Middle Ages fire baskets filled with sulfur were used to repel the Black Death" - the given citation #4 contains no information about fire baskets. I cannot access other sources but we should start with this. Lightburst (talk) 20:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

• For the hook look on page 81,

  The establishment of lighthouses to increase safety at sea along Denmark’s coasts started in 1560 when the Danish king Frederik II ordered the erection of bascule lights at Skagen, Anholt and Kullen to mark the main route through Danish waters from the North Sea to the Baltic.

For reference 5, "Lyskilden var kulbaseret i en fyrpande på tårnets top", " The light source was coal-based in a boiler at the top of the tower." There is also this source. If that's not good enough we can drop the sentence. --evrik ^(talk) 01:37, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

I see that you have the hook correctly referenced in the article now. For citation 5 I think there is just an issue with my machine translation. But I am still unable to reach the conclusion that I see in our article, that "During the Middle Ages fire baskets filled with sulfur were used to repel the Black Death" I cannot find that information in the given source in the article. Lightburst (talk) 14:02, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Okay, this is what I read, "For the wealthy, the burning of incense in large braisers was a luxurious form of fumigation. Fumigating one’s garments with incense, not only as a perfume but as a form of plague prevention became common among the elite. However, bonfires, sulfur/saltpetre burning, and even spraying deadly mercury compounds were used in public fumigations." Want me to look for something else?--evrik ^(talk) 21:30, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

@Evrik: Yes, I am not able to connect fire baskets to the bonfires and the sulfur was not burned in the braisers according to the source. Lightburst (talk) 13:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, strike the line. It's not critical to the piece. --evrik ^(talk) 03:58, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, [I'll] strike the line. It's not critical to the piece. --evrik ^(talk) 03:58, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I am not going to refactor the article. I cannot find anything about Christmas in citation 3 either. My observation: it seems our sources call the fire basket by other names and our article fits them into the title of "fire basket". My spot checks: sources do not seem line up. I will ask another editor to have a look rather than failing the nomination or holding it up. Lightburst (talk) 02:29, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

@Evrik: "strike the line"? You're the nominator; it is your job to address the reviewer's concerns and rewrite the article if necessary. BorgQueen (talk) 14:24, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

What I wrote is not what I meant. I fixed it. I think all the issues have been addressed.--evrik ^(talk) 23:34, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

evrik, wouldn't there be a difference between a bascule light and a fire basket? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 00:46, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron: The bascule hoists a basket. --evrik ^(talk) 01:11, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• There have been no comments to this nomination in over a month; are there still any remaining concerns? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:19, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Someone needs to do a full review. I was unable to confirm several references with spot checks. i also think we use the term "Fire basket" when sources do not. I found it puzzling so I wanted another reviewer to go through it. Lightburst (talk) 04:41, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

• I've been asking that myself. --evrik ^(talk) 05:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
  • New reviewer needed to do a full review of the article and the hooks. (I see no sign that basic checks have been done on the article's eligibility or whether it's within policy, for example.) BlueMoonset (talk) 03:04, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

• @Rjjiii: went through all the sourcing. I'm going to try and answer those points. --evrik ^(talk) 16:21, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

• Oh yes, I should have posted here. I went through the sources in the background section and posted to the talk page. I plan to check heraldry as well when I have some time. At least some of these issues were present in the original German version. Rjjiii (talk) 19:33, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
• evrik, I've finished checking the article's sources. That one bit that I marked in red should be fixed first as it is a potential copyright issue. Also, I peeked again at the German original. The only sources that properly verified content in the article appear to be the museum and light house society sources and I think that you added both of these. It may be easier to start from the reliable sources than to try and fix the existing text. Good luck, Rjjiii (talk) 07:18, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

• I've read this. --evrik ^(talk) 22:17, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

New enough, long enough. Hook short enough and sourced (as is every paragraph); happy to take evrik's word for the bascule/basket explanation. No neutrality problems found, no copyright problems found, no maintenance templates found. QPQ done and image properly licensed. Good to go.--Launchballer 13:46, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Merge from Fire basket (heraldry)

I'm not sure why the two need to be separate articles – they are different on the wikis they were translated from, sure, but the heraldry article doesn't seem to discuss more than the use of the main article's subject in heraldry, and it doesn't appear to need more than a section to be coverage at the main. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 00:43, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Done. --evrik ^(talk) 01:10, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Reviewing sources

Taking a look to verify content:

• During the Middle Ages fire baskets filled with sulfur were used to repel the Black Death. does not appear to be supported by reference. The article makes a distinction between the public burning of sulfur and "For the wealthy, the burning of incense in large braisers was a luxurious form of fumigation."
• In addition to its lighting and heating functions, fire baskets have a wide variety of uses. Before document shredders, the fire basket was widely used to burn secret documents, and is not supported the source. It is a guide to purchasing a fire basket for your garden.
• fire baskets are most often found in a garden for heat and light. is not exactly supported by the reference. The article is a guide to purchasing a fire basket. It does not seem to make a statement on how they are most often used, but rather how you can and should use them.
• The beacon atop the Altenburg castle in Bamberg served to communication with the neighboring Giechburg castle. "How to find the right fire bowl for your garden" does not appear to mention Alternburg castle in Bamberg
• Skagen's Lever Light in Skagen: from 1627 to 1747 fire baskets were raised with a lever arm Is not cited. The 1747 date does not appear in the body text. Is 1627 a typo or referring somehow to 1624 date in the body? That date is not supported by its source so far as I can tell.
• Historically, fire baskets were used in lighthouses, such as Skagen's White Lighthouse Not supported by this machine translation, but maybe "boiler" from "fyrpande" is an error: The lighthouse is built of red brick, but was whitewashed in the early 1800s. The light source was coal-based in a boiler at the top of the tower. The coal was hoisted up via an internal shaft. In 1835, the lighthouse was fitted with parabolic mirrors, and the coals were replaced by rapeseed oil.
• as the beacon. Verified. A few bits from here that verify stuff not clearly cited to this source include:

• Skagen in photos: (Photo from the Egbert Koch collection) Brazier Fire Basket at the Skagen ‘Hvide Fyr’ Light. (ca. 1700) and (Photo from the Egbert Koch collection) The Vippefyr at Skagen Denmark. (ca. 1624)

• In the 16th century, Frederick II ordered the erection of beacons at Skagen, Anholt and Kullen Lighthouse to mark the main route through Danish waters from the North Sea to the Baltic. See below:
• [...] In 1560 [...] Frederik II ordered the erection of bascule lights at Skagen, Anholt and Kullen to mark the main route through Danish waters from the North Sea to the Baltic.
• These "bascule lights" or "tipping lanterns" (Danish:vippefyr) were fire baskets hung from a bascule. In Skagen, the current vippefyr is a reproduction of the original, which dates back to 1626.

• "bascule lights" is in quotes but does not appear in the book so far as I can tell,
• "tipping lanterns" is the same,
• "vippefyr" does appear and is explained as "vippefyr or lever light (3)" and "Denmark introduced this lighthouse called a vippefyr, in 1624 (4)",
• Page 3 is about France.
• Page 4 briefly mentions the invention of the type of lighthouse in 1624. No mention of Skagen, a reproduction, etc.

Feel free to make a note if I've gotten anything wrong and good luck with improving the rest, Rjjiii (talk) 07:51, 21 July 2023 (UTC

Okay, I finished checking the sources, here are the rest:

• A fire basket is an uncommon heraldic figure in heraldry. Another name in Germany is the "pitch basket," Not supported by the source. This section of the book is just illustrations of heraldry. Using this to say "uncommon" would be original research. Why are their quotes around "pitch basket" when the source is in German?
• or a "straw basket". I didn't track down this article because the ref says it's in German.
• A distinction is made between two representations: Only the empty fire basket or the basket with flames licking up from it is shown in the coat of arms and/or in the upper coat of arms. All heraldic colors are used, but black and the metals are used most often. The flames are mostly red. Deviations and special shapes and positions are to be mentioned in the description of the coat of arms. The town of Becherbach uses the fire basket in its coat of arms from the terms pitch and basket. This entire section is cited to another Wikipedia article. I don't think this is allowed, is it? The appropriate sources have to be copied over from that article.
• A cressets is a fire basket on a pole. Verified at the museum's website.
• The retired Skagen's White Lighthouse in Skagen, North Judland, Denmark. On the roof is the fire basket once used as a beacon. This is supported by citation 6. Since it's in a gallery separated from the body text, you may want to use a named ref here. But regardless this is fine.

I'll post a quick note on the DYK template as well, Rjjiii (talk) 07:12, 22 July 2023 (UTC)