Talk:Deccan Traps

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Dates

This article gives the dates as 60-65 mya, but I thought the dates had been refined to around 68 mya, which is why the eruptions can not have been set off by a meteor strike 65 mya? Joe D (t) 17:45, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Dates for the Deccan seem to span the range from 68 to 60 Myr with some dikes dated at 70 Myr in the refs I've seen. I've tried to modify the article to clarify this, but need to do more. Vsmith 20:42, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A new paper out in Science narrows the dating of the Traps signifcantly: starting 250 kyr before the K-Pg boundary, and lasting for 750 kyr. I'd prefer a more geologically expert editor to update the article accordingly, as some of the interpretation will need revision as well. Kelseymh (talk) 04:39, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

″History[edit]

The Deccan Traps began forming 65.250 million years ago,[2] at the end of the Cretaceous period. The bulk of the volcanic eruption occurred at the Western Ghats (near Mumbai) some 66 million years ago. This series of eruptions may have lasted less than 30,000 years in total.[3]″

So the bulk occurred before they began forming?? Weavehole (talk) 23:21, 19 December 2014 (UTC)weavehole

References

Is or are?

This article begins with "The Deccan Traps is a large igneous province..." Should it not be "The Deccan Traps are a large..."? I'd change it myself, but I'm worried I'm missing something. Firsfron of Ronchester 20:00, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a province and therefore singular. "Traps" refers to a morphological feature - the step-like appearance of the flows in cross-section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JobSeeker (talk • contribs) 23:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Large meteoric impacts and super-volcanism: causality?

I've just realized that the Deccan Traps formation happened in the same time frame as the K-T boundary extinction event (this is mentioned in the article). But one interesting fact is that the Deccan Traps are located at the exact opposite location as the Chicxulub Crater. Could it be that large meteoric impacts cause major volcanic eruptions at the opposite side of Earth? Maybe the Siberian Traps could be paired with a similar meteoric impact, although it would have to be located on the Pacific ocean bed. Finally, volcanic features on Mars seems to be diametrally opposed to large meteoric impacts. I'll try to find some research information on this topic (as I don't want to put original research on this page). 207.134.187.165 04:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Chicxulub and the Deccan Traps were not diametrically opposite each other - neither was the antipode to the other. However it is possible that the impact at Chicxulub could have caused an increase in volcanic activity at the plume. Now some 65 million years later there is no means of knowing, so it will remain a hypothesis. Do large impacts cause volcanic eruptions may be but again we have no means of knowing. In respect of the Siberian Traps there is as far as I am aware no known impact feature which could feasibly be related. You need to remember too that the Deccan Traps were erupted over about 8 million years from about 68 to 60 million years ago, and the Chicxulub event occurred about 65 million years ago - roughly half way through the eruptive cycle.The Geologist (talk) 15:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

As you can see at Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event, the main pulse of the Deccan Traps eruptions preceded the Chicxulub impact by about 1.7 million years. Also, although it is difficult to find good maps that show the likely paleolatitudes and paleolongitudes, Chicxulub and the Deccan were not really very close to antipodal - they were separated by on the order of 130 degrees east-west (not 180) and on the order of 30 degrees north-south (not 90). Cheers Geologyguy 13:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for giving these very useful details. I guess the link between super-volcanism and meteoric impacts is very hard to find... if there is any! Cheers 207.134.187.165 07:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to add to the above. Please note the article about the Caloris Basin on Mercury. It is quite factual that a big enough impact on one side of a world can affect the terrain on the opposite side. It is a fact that the Earth has a much more liquid interior than Mercury, and thus can transmit shock waves better. It is a fact that because of continental drift, Chicxulub and India were approximately on opposite sides of the planet 65 Myrs ago. I don't know of any Reliable Source that puts all of those facts together, to reach the obvious possibility-conclusion. V (talk) 18:46, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Lovett, Richard A. "'Dinosaur Killer' Asteroid Only One Part of New Quadruple-Whammy Theory", National Geographic, October 30, 2006. Accessed June 16, 2009. Handwerk, Brian Did Huge Volcanic Blasts Snuff Out Dinos?, National Geographic, August 23, 2005. Accessed March 22, 2010. Quote I: "New tests reveal that one 2,000 foot-thick (600 meter-thick) lava (Deccan Traps) section could have accumulated in just 30,000 years. That's lightning-fast by geologic standards." (Anne-Lise Chenet of the Paris Geophysical Institute's paleomagnetism laboratory) Quote II: "The dinosaurs, they say, were killed not by a lone asteroid strike but by the quadruple whammy of global climate change, massive volcanism, and not one but two gigantic collisions." (Princeton University paleontologist Gerta Keller and her collaborators) --Chris.urs-o (talk) 11:46, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Lava outpourings seem to be fairly consistent and anything can be proved theoretically - such as you and I have the same parents. However that is only a theory and the evidence from radiometric dating indicates that the Deccan Traps accumulated over about 8 million years which means that on average the rate of effusion was 0.25 of 1 mm per year. We do know that the process paused on several occasions from the evidence of palaeosols - fossil soils, animals that were trapped and plant debris. Similar things happen in the present time and we hae no reason to think that the Deccan Traps did not undergo a periods of eruption and dormancy. Think of Iceland at the present time, it is volcanically active yet it has periods of eruptive activity and periods of dormancy.The Geologist (talk) 15:19, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

While this paragraph is not about India, the section heading here implies I might mention there is an equivalent huge basalt flow in Siberia, older than the Deccan Traps. And there is a huge crater in South Africa, the "Vredefort Ring", one of the biggest on Earth, of perhaps the same age as the Siberian outflow. I don't know how closely the ages match, and I certainly don't know if the two locations were antipodal at that time. But I don't know that they weren't, either. 216.54.28.10 (talk) 15:34, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

It is not, Siberian Traps (251 to 250 Ma), Vredefort crater (2,023 ±4 Ma). See the figure, caption: Extinction rate versus time (multiple-interval marine genera, modified from Sepkoski, 1996) compared with eruption ages of continental flood basalts. Three of the largest mass extinctions, the Permo-Triassic, Triassic-Jurassic and the Cretaceous-Tertiary, correspond with the eruptions of the Siberian Traps, the Central Atlantic Magmatic Province, and the Deccan Traps, respectively. Three oceanic plateaus, the Caribbean (CP), Kerguelen (KP), and Ontong Java (OJP) are included. Modified after White and Saunders (2005). --Chris.urs-o (talk) 17:12, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Map

Would be nice to have some kind of map... AnonMoos 20:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Venus

I'm removing the lame and very tenuously related small section discussing Venus. It might deserve a small mention in the flood basalt article, but not here, not as presented. --Kbh3^rdtalk 03:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Cuddapah traps

Wonder if someone can also add information on how this relates to the nearby Cuddapah traps. Shyamal (talk) 05:05, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

It would be nice to have a graphic map like this one of where they are in India, like this one if someone could find or make one. This one to right has not been taken off. Is it useable?? CarolMooreDC (talk) 23:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Just checked on Google Earth, and 43-47 E puts you in Saudi Arabia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.135.169.252 (talk) 08:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Swedish?

What exactly is this article basing the fact that the name comes from Swedish on? German, Dutch and most likely other languages (Norwegian and Danish?) use words with the same pronunciation and similar spelling for stairs as well. 145.99.155.53 (talk) 19:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

da:Trappe, de:Treppe, nl:Trap, no:Trapp, sv:Trappa. According to my sources it is a Scandinavian word for Stairway. --Jo (talk) 21:35, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

I didn't actually doubt that. :-P The issue is whether this particular use came from Swedish. Why Swedish if so many other languages have the same word? 145.99.155.53 (talk) 19:17, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

My german geological dictionary says that it is derived from a swedish miner's word (Hans Murawski: Geologisches Wörterbuch. 11. ed. Ferd. Emke Verlag, Stuttgart 2004, ISBN 978-3-827-41445-8). --Jo (talk) 20:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

The Swedish derivation of the English word "trap" meaning "expanse of dark igneous rock [in stair-like formation]" is a matter of record in etymological sources. See for example http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=trap&searchmode=phrase Merlin Cox (talk) 02:34, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the question is not of the text which has a reliable citation. Seems like we are looking for a Swedish geologist who introduced the term in the first place. Shyamal (talk) 02:39, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

It might be a Swedish geologist or possibly Swedish rock formations. In any case that etymology is given by the OED. Merlin Cox (talk) 02:46, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

On the page about the Deccan Traps, it says ""The term "trap", used in geology for such rock formations, is derived from the Dutch word for stairs[1] and refers to the step-like hills forming the landscape of the region." Would be nice if the various pages about traps were consistent in this regard. Kcds (talk) 12:06, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

In Online Etymology Dictionary, as Merlin Cox linked to, Douglas Harper traces "traps" in English to Swedish chemist and mineralogist Torbern Bergman, Fellow of The Royal Society. The Swedish heritage is not too surprising considering the strong Linnaean tradition at the time of the birth of modern geology. Hexmaster.se (talk) 19:31, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Very Fast Formation

A recent theory has come up that posits that the traps formed in as little as 100 years and caused the extinction of the dinosaurs, and that the dinosaurs were not killed by the massive asteroid impact. Is this worthy of inclusion?

Wired article here: http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/12/deccantraps.html Rkeene0517 (talk) 19:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Please read the Wired article once more. Singular flows are thought to have formed in as little as 100 years, not the enire traps. And please read this article here once more, the possible influence on the extinction event is already included as well as the possibility of very short time of formation. --Jo (talk) 21:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Image: artist's rendition of dinosaur extinction

I removed this nonsense picture. Nobody really knows how this extiction happened (if caused by Deccan Trap eruptions at all), but surely not the way depicted, dinosaurs writhing in agony under lava drops ... --Jo (talk) 11:59, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The File:Deccan Traps volcano.jpg comes from National Science Foundation, that is reputable scientific source. See for example image also artist's depiction File:Impact event.jpg which is in featured article Wikipedia:Today's featured article/March 13, 2008 and the image also apperared on the main page. I think, that the image is appropriate while there is written "artist's depiction". The image only shows volcano and shows that volcano can affect dinosaurs somehow. Maybe it can help improving description of the image in more details. --Snek01 (talk) 12:58, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. This is the sort of simplification nobody needs. The direct effects of a volcanic eruption like lava bombs etc. only affect some innocent bystanding dinosaurs, but the true possible cause of a worldwide extinction would be something like a nuclear winter. No caption can render this image useful. The Impact event picture is of another class, showing no silly simplification. It is an artist's view, but wholly appropriate.--Jo (talk) 16:01, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm in agreement with Jo. First, the NSF is not a reputable scientific source as a standalone entity. Only if this image were published in a reputable and reliable source does it become useful to us. Second, although I am certain things died near the Deccan Traps, we are giving too much weight through the image alone that the Deccan Traps were the cause of the death of dinosaurs. Discussions of this point are still a matter of serious scientific discussion. Finally, you use the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event article's use of the an asteroid impacting earth. That image was a matter of significant discussion during the FA process, and it was decided that it was a neutral picture showing the known impact of an asteroid hitting heart approximately 65.5 million years ago. It makes no presumption, from the image itself, that dinosaurs were killed. I am deleting the image from that article too. OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 16:11, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, thank you for your detailed comments. --Snek01 (talk) 17:18, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

In addition, the image shows a plinian volcanic eruption plume, which is not correct in a flood basalt environment. GeoWriter (talk) 16:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Anyone noticed the green slime emerging from the theropod's mouth? FunkMonk (talk) 08:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I pity the poor reptile. ;) 83.251.170.27 (talk) 23:23, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

If it is the picture shown here you are referring to, thenit most certainly IS NOT a plinian eruption. What the picture depicts is a lava curtain similar to those seen on Iceland - fissure eruptions such as the Laki eruption create lava curtains. The type of eruption depicted is hawaiian / icelandic style - effusive lavas with a very high dissolved gas content.The Geologist (talk) 15:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

History

"Although, it has been suggested that the gases released in the process may have played a role in the Cretaceous–Tertiary extinction event, which included the extinction of the non-avian dinosaurs, the consensus among the scientific community is that the extinction was triggered by the Chicxulub crater." Not true, Gerta Keller, calculated that the extinction event took 2 million years, a kind of group censorship hides the truth. --Chris.urs-o (talk) 14:21, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

A consensus among scientists can be challenged by a single scientist. To claim that this consensus is "untrue" would be WP:UNDUE, imho. That said, the K-T boundary is now mentioned at least three times in the article, so the article really needs some rework. --Fama Clamosa (talk) 14:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, what is allowed to be published gives this idea. But the truth just is, the consensus might be not up to date. Excellence discovers the truth, consensus can tell that the earth is flat because of commercial interests. --Chris.urs-o (talk) 20:41, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Note: I'm not saying the information shouldn't be in the article, only that Gerta Keller's theories do not represent the current consensus among scientists, and that her theories therefore should be presented as her theories only after the most widely held view has been explained. --Fama Clamosa (talk) 09:50, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

"Link to Chicxulub Crater"

There have been proposed links to the Chicxulub Meteor Impact and the Shiva Meteor impact that occurred at or near the Deccan Traps Eruption.

=== Link to Chicxulub Crater ===

The Chicxulub Meteor impact has been endorsed as the primary cause of the mass extinctions at the end of the Cretaceous period, at the boundary with the Tertiary period. However, it has been proposed that the violent volcanism at the Deccan Traps may have been stimulated by the Chicxulub Meteor impact, causing a combined climate armageddon and mass extinctions. The proposed mechanism arises out of observations of the mapped surface of Mars. Mars has its largest Meteor impact crater (Hellas) almost diametrically opposite the only large patch of volcanos on Mars (Including the biggest - Olympus Mons) on the other side of Mars [1]. This evidence supports a mechanism where meteor impact shock waves travel through and around the Earth, to focus on the other side causing fracturing and uplifting of the mantle and possibly magma. The volcanos on Mars are pre-dated by the meteor bombardment. The Chicxulub impact was oblique, from South to North, so the focusing of shock waves could have been also in the Northern Hemisphere, at or near enough to the Deccan Traps to stimulate a super-volcano.

Viewed yesterday a conference by Vincent Courtillot where he stated that the Deccan traps started forming before the Chicxulub Meteor impact. I cannot give precise references, but the specialists could certainly do so. --Olivier Debre (talk) 09:27, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

The Deccan Traps are known to have been in an eruptive state and these are the oldest known lavas. The youngest known lavas have been dated at 60 million years whilst the Chicxulub impact has been dated at 65 million years - roughly mid-way through the eruptive cycles of the Deccan Traps. Whether the impact accentuated the eruptions is impossible to know.The Geologist (talk) 15:31, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I removed the addition above from the article because there are no references supporting the claims. The reference there is only support that there is a huge volcano on Mars. --Fama Clamosa (talk) 09:50, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

The article states that Keller supports the hypothesis that the extinction may have been caused by both the [Deccan] volcanism and the [Chicxulub] impact event. This is wrong. As quoted by The Atlantic[2], Keller rejects this hypothesis. “It’s impossible[.] They [Renne et al] are trying to save the impact theory by modifying it.” --92.219.24.183 (talk) 23:36, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Dual magma plumes fueled Deccan Traps

Science News, February 9, 2017

Source Pub, Science 10 Feb 2017: Vol. 355, Issue 6325, pp. 613-616 DOI: 10.1126/science.aah4390

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text needs work

I've been adding {{weasel word}} and {{by whom}} as I'm reading this but it makes more sense to ask if the text in general can be cleaned up, rather than pointing out every instance. So, if you have time and are knowledgeable, can you please review the text for places where opinions/ideas/claims are expressed without mentioning the person that expressed them? — SkyLined (talk) 12:00, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Location of the Deccan Traps at 66 Ma

If you follow the Math of the Growth and Expansion of Planets, then the Deccan Traps was about 2 degrees south of the Equator 66 million years ago. and Chicxulub Impact site was about 2 degrees North of the Equator. The differential opening up of the Pacific compared to the Atlantic has not kept the two locations 180 degrees apart in the Last 66 million years.

It is more than 180 degrees apart across the Pacific, and less then 180 degrees apart across the Atlantic, using the Equator to North Pole Longitudes.

The fact that the Deccan Traps may have started 68 Million Years ago does not mean that the impact at Chicxulub did not affect the total volume of Magma. It is the second largest Magma Volume on planet Earth. The Largest Volume was the Siberian Traps that was Antipodal to the Wilkes Land Impact site in Antarctica.

Impacts reflect and refract energy waves to an antipodal point 180 degrees away from the Impact site in all direction, and re-focus the energy into a small area on the opposite side of the Earth. This is similar to a large caliber bullet impacting a thick steel plate. A crater forms on the near side, and a bulge forms on the far side of the plate. 165.127.60.132 (talk) 21:01, 22 February 2024 (UTC)