Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Ihardlythinkso
User:Ihardlythinkso is indefinitely topic-banned from post-1932 American Politics, broadly construed. This sanction may be brought here for reconsideration after six months. GoldenRing (talk) 01:03, 10 May 2017 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ihardlythinkso
"Wikipedia editors are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other editors; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system, is prohibited."
The diffs speak for themselves. This editor has once again ramped up the personal attacks and general battleground behaviour. The latest attacks directed at me include a ridiculous accusation of stalking after I reverted his reversion of what I considered a good edit. Of course, before accusing me of stalking, he reverted again.- MrX 21:47, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
Discussion concerning IhardlythinksoStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by IhardlythinksoWhat do you want a response on? The Donald Trump page is left open to disparaging remarks about the bio subject's character; that page needs to be patrolled better by admins. It's hypocrisy or bias to stomp down on "equal time" remarks about his rival. (And nothing I posted was any worse than available RSs about the character of that person, proof is Jeanine Pirro's opening statement here.) The WP is already liberally biased and I'm seldom on the Donald Trump article Talk especially because of it. Notice editors like Anythingyouwant are ostracized there and nitpicked unendingly until chased away. MrX is part of that effort. He takes a front seat to bias that article, including elimination of me through lecture, reversion, stalking, and insult. (The hypocrisy of recently informing me that as editor I'm "insignificant" and "Good day!" followed by opening this case.) There is no doubt in my mind WP is overrun w/ liberal bias, even the Remembrance Project is laced with coloring the founder with ties and motivations connected somehow to Hitler. As far as battlegrounding with any of this bias, that is absurd, there is too much of it and it has gone on for too long and is too pervasive. No one rational would spend their time in attempt to NPOV it back to respectability for an encyclopedia. And I have no interest at that article except to peek once in awhile, and if I make a post about something it is becauase the absurdity & bias is so rampant, a comment saying the King has No Clothes was called for. So pick on me, go ahead. I do not really give a damn. It isn't about me, it is about the blatant bias that is and has been already there. Be proud. I am not. And would never recommend any friends of family to read WP political articles. I've already seen enough and discussed enough w/ people offline about this to know everything I've said is true. So I don't give a damn about your power to ban me from that article or even political articles. The editor with agenda are those that bias it. Look at my edit history to see if I have improved political articles and if so how. I do not add bias but I might revert it. At the Pruitt lede I reverted a new claim that Pruitt "intends to dismantle the EPA", even though it was not a summary of anything near that in the article, and the refs posted to support the contention lead with an opinion piece. The statement is equivalent to putting mind-reading in Wikipedia's voice, supported by op-ed. Blatant bias. When I specified that I reverted on those bases, MrX reverted me with only "it was a good edit". Wow. Do not blame me for the absurd bias of articles and the majority of liberal NPOV warriors out to denegrate Trump and anything associated with him. I know the hatred is there in MSM, and Wikipedia is a sort of MSM, also dominated by liberal POV. Now one of those warriors is out for blood. And I don't give a care if you give it too him, because as mentioned the status of things is already too-far gone, and I've never ever been a part of any generealized effort to reverse it, I have more realistic things to do w/ my time. But obviously this is very important to MrX and others who support the liberal bias, they outnumber any of the opposers like Anythingyouwant. (Who along with me was accused of "disruption" and "this must be stopped" simply from taking the position in discussion that if it is mentioned Trump did not win a majority of the popular vote, that his implied or stated main opponent didn't either. Somehow, the logic of that is impossible to see, or takes excruciating effort to see, as per comments at that Talk. Give me a break.) BTW, what was it I was supposed to respond to specifically? Another thing, the previous ban of me on the Donald Trump article was bogus and unfair (par for the course, good job Bish, I went to your Talk to complain about something else besides the ban you supported, and another user follows me to your Talk to harass me, a user whose biggest objection is that I added a blockquote to a quote greater than 40 words per MoS, and that I changed a piped link from an article specifically about history of women's rights in U.S., to an article about feminism in the U.S., which was more what the relevant article topic was about, and somehow I get blocked at her Talk when objecting to the user harassing me there). The article stated that Trump in the Hollywood tape referred to his assults against women, synonymous to admission of having committed crimes against them, when he never made any such admission, so why is WP stating so if MSM biased RSs exist that like/want to say so? (The answer is, because the editors dominating the article are just as biased and smear-enthusiastic as the MSM.) I did the right thing to protect a living BLP subject from such trashy statements, and what did I get? Banned. Good one. (And now use that ban as further evidence that I need another ban? Oh good one. That's so impressive! Not.) --IHTS (talk) 00:40, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning Ihardlythinkso
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SPECIFICO
No action taken. Editors cautioned to be careful about reverting edits in this topic area. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 18:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning SPECIFICO
WP:ARBAPDS / 1RR violation
The editor is currently subject to other sanctions but they are not relevant to this case.
Warned in May 2016 by Coffee, December 2016 by Sagecandor and January 2017 by Octoberwoodland. Participated in numerous WP:AE threads. Routinely threatens other editors of sanctions (which recently resulted in a custom sanction to prevent disruption).
Done. [1]
Discussion concerning SPECIFICOStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by SPECIFICOEntirely my error, however I believe that @MrX: subsequently made the same edit as my second one after JFG reinstated his preferred version thereby making it unnecessary for me to self-revert. I will be more careful to check the edit history hereafter. I noticed my error when I saw JFG's own second revert here, after this one here less than an hour earlier. However, unlike JFG I chose not to open a complaint since, like my mistake, his second revert is now moot. SPECIFICO talk 23:27, 10 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by DarouetI routinely disagree with SPECIFICO on content issues at this article, and have been upset by their many warnings / threats of sanctions against editors, myself included, which are typically made without evidence. However, this is a single simple infraction. I don't think it's worthwhile to "catch" someone on a one-off like this: it will just worsen the editing atmosphere. I'd recommend that the issue be resolved on the talk page. -Darouet (talk) 23:36, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by MrXI agree with Darouet. Best practice is to give an editor an opportunity to self-revert before reporting them, unless of course there is a pattern of edit warring.- MrX 23:42, 10 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning SPECIFICO
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No More Mr Nice Guy
No More Mr Nice Guy is blocked for 72 hours. Sandstein 21:34, 15 May 2017 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning No More Mr Nice Guy
Per notice at top of Talk:Balfour Declaration:
The comments below have been taken off course by other topics merged into the discussion. What appears to have been missed is that No More Mr Nice Guy's edits 3 and 4 above were a clear violation of 1RR. So in aggregate these edits contravened ARBPIA rules past, present and future: the old ARBPIA 1RR bright line, the current consensus requirement, and the soon-to-be-implemented new 1RR wording being discussed at WP:ARCA. Have said that, what I find much more troublesome is No More Mr Nice Guy's comment at [9], where the editor stated that he felt no need to enter into discussion to support his continuing reverts. Oncenawhile (talk) 20:43, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
Discussion concerning No More Mr Nice GuyStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by No More Mr Nice GuyThe material has been there since at least September 2016. My edits are the "reverted edit" one needs consensus to "restore" in the requirement Oncenawhile quoed above. If anything, Rjensen is the one who violated the requirement when he redid his edit which I reverted (edit [11], revert [12], restore edit without consensus [13]), but the issue seems to have been resolved (except insofar as Oncenawhile thinks he can weaponise it, apparently). No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 15:06, 11 May 2017 (UTC) @KI, you're correct. The text was written by me as a compromise between texts Nishidani and Epsom Salts put in the article. Nishidani did not complain about it at the time or since, but apparently couldn't give up the opportunity to try to get rid of an opponent with a ridiculously illogical guilt by association argument. Talk about disingenuous. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 23:17, 12 May 2017 (UTC) Since Nishidani brought it up, opening himself to BOOMERANG, could someone have a look at the behavior I complained about here, which he mentioned below? "Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis." like he did here (among many other places) fits part of the definition of antisemitism recently adopted by, among others, the UK government [14] to "ensure that culprits will not be able to get away with being antisemitic because the term is ill-defined, or because different organisations or bodies have different interpretations of it"? Why is he allowed to harass other editors like this? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 16:30, 13 May 2017 (UTC) Nishidani, thanks for admitting you made an analogy to the Nazis, and tailored your response to your interlocutors being Jewish - "I asked the two editors how they would respond to reading of something similar in their own cultural tradition". Why you think that makes it better rather than worse is anyone's guess. It doesn't even matter that your analogy is ridiculous or that your retrospective rationalization attempts fall flat to a simple reading of your post. What really happened here is that a couple of Jews did something you didn't like, so you said something hurtful, as is your wont. This sort of thing supposedly goes against everything Wikipedia editing stands for, but is allowed for some reason when you do it. Over and over. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 18:39, 13 May 2017 (UTC) The treatment of Jews in Poland by the Nazis in the 1940s is part of whose "cultural tradition"? Jews or Israelis? Do you really think everyone here is stupid? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 20:14, 13 May 2017 (UTC) Ah yes, the good old "Black people call each other the N-word, so why can't I?" defense. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 14:31, 15 May 2017 (UTC) Nishidani, speaking of animus, if you hadn't showed up here and tried to smear me with your disingenuous guilt by association argument, we wouldn't be having this discussion. All you had to do is stay out of it. And I was obviously referring to your last post in my previous one. "Serious reading problems", indeed. Kudos for writing twice as much as everyone else combined, by the way. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 17:50, 15 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by KingsindianI think this request is a bit premature. The article has been changed significantly since the lead was written: the lead would need to be rewritten anyway, and this point can then be addressed. It's not worth fighting over this matter now, per WP:DEADLINE. Since I think that the ARBPIA rule (currently at ARCA) is idiotic and counterproductive, I would definitely not want any "prosecution" under the rule. The dispute is still manageable. That said, I would prefer that NMMNG self-revert and (a) either propose an acceptable wording, or at least reply to my comments here or (b) simply wait till a new lead is written. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 10:47, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by ShrikeThe second edit by NNMG is exempt from revert count as it reverted the violation of consensus clause so 1RR and no violation of consensus clause.--Shrike (talk) 13:07, 11 May 2017 (UTC) Still I don't understand why only NNMG is reported other people broke the rule too--Shrike (talk) 14:27, 11 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000To editor Shrike: You are citing the rules incorrectly. The arbcom ruling allows reverts to enforce the General Prohibition, not reverts to enforce the consensus clause. Zerotalk 13:52, 11 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by Malik ShabazzWhile it's true that I didn't use the magic phrase "consensus clause -- which is so magical that the requirement that it be invoked has never been announced -- anybody but an absolute moron (or a blind pro-Israeli POV pusher) would recognize that I invoked the clause in my edit summary: "removing material that is still under discussion on the talk page -- please read WP:ARBPIA -- a five-hour 'I agree' among four like-minded editors is not consensus". I will note for future reference, however, that at least one administrator is unable to see the reference to ARBPIA and consensus in the edit summary and put 2+2 together and get 4; in the future, I will assume the stupidity of all administrators and use the magic phrase "consensus clause". — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 03:20, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by NishidaniIf the first revert restored in January of this year edits made by Epson Salts, then NMMGG was knowingly restoring text that had been introduced by a sockpuppet of one of the most deleterious sockmasters in the I/P area, NoCal100, some months, (October_2016 October 2016) i.e. within fresh memory of Epsom Salts' indefinite ban as a sock. If so, then this is particularly disingenuous, indeed . . .Nishidani (talk) 19:51, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Ijon TichyRegarding some of the issues discussed by Nishidani, see also: Criticism_of_the_Israeli_government#Comparisons_with_Nazi_Germany. ---- Ijon Tichy (talk) 13:40, 14 May 2017 (UTC)
Result concerning No More Mr Nice Guy
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Problematics
Closed with no action as editor was separately indef blocked as a confirmed sock puppet. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:45, 13 May 2017 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Problematics
Continuously blanking the section and content about Pakistan despite consensus on talk page as well as the recent page move discussion,[21] in which he opposed the present article name.
This is violation of WP:1RR, even if he is waiting at least 24 hours 1 minute to make another revert. He is only editor to revert to his preferred version. What's more suspicious is, that he is an WP:SPA, who registered the account on Apr 21, 2017 to edit these articles, however he has are clear WP:CIR issues. It has been impossible to make him agree and other editors are in favor of the version he continues to revert.[23][24] He has misrepresented the admin Amakuru's comments[25], despite he told him "for now it does appear to me that the consensus view is against you".[26] But he is not getting it, no matter how much others tell him.[27] Capitals00 (talk) 12:36, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Discussion concerning ProblematicsStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by ProblematicsThe above statements are misrepresentative of the actual events. Firstly, the article's scope is disputed, the Admin had confirmed that. It was in that background that I reverted this. And I was justified to do so by WP:NOCON. I explained myself on the talkpage before reverting. After that me and other users were having a discussion and this discussion is still ongoing. Not just me but User:Mar4d and User:Nadirali also lodged opinions on the talkpage in favour of retaining the article's old scope. [[32]] 2. User:Capitals00 then proceeded to falsely claim consensus (which he did not have as I explained here) and revert me. Nevertheless I did not revert User:Capitals00 because of 1RR on the page and even he has accepted I did not violate 1RR (by reverting WP:NOCON within 24 hours)). I feel this claim was filed in bad faith. It should also be known that this user was engaged in an edit war on the page in question, violated 3RR and was accused by another user on the article's talkpage of POV-editing. Problematics (talk) 12:58, 11 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by Kautilya3This is a content dispute, albeit a pretty complicated one. It doesn't belong here. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:34, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by D4iNa4Problematics doesn't seem to be dropping the issue and he is still making WP:POINT to disrupt wikipedia. He has been reverted by another editor after this report.[34] I also agree he wasn't born yesterday, and I am not sure about his motive but since he joined wikipedia he engaged himself in disruptive conduct. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Tyler DurdenThis is a content dispute. No point in bringing these issues here. The filer(s) are unnecessarily and meaninglessly doing this for the third time in the same dispute. — Tyler Durden (talk) 18:24, 11 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by Mar4d
Statement by Marvellous Spider-ManThis is a content dispute, however Problematics is editing like WP:SPA. --Marvellous Spider-Man 15:40, 12 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by MBlazeProblematics had already violated WP:1RR[35][36], before he made this[37] yet another revert. This is a conduct issue, not a content issue. —MBlaze Lightning T 17:54, 12 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Problematics
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Kevin McE
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Kevin McE
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Drmies (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:27, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Kevin McE (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons :
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 11 May Kevin McE removes biographical paragraph, claiming the person interviewed is not reliable.
- 11 May Same edit, claiming no one on the talk page disagreed with him
- 11 May "Unreliable, no independent verification"--obviously incorrect, since the sources are The Daily Telegraph and New Statesman.
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
User was notified of AC/DS for BLPs with this edit. This is right after I warned the editor for BLP violations (for basically calling the subject of the BLP a liar in their edit summary), and I left an extensive explanation on the talk page, here.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
This little affair has a long history: as you can see on the talk page, the article, Robert Young (endurance runner), was a BLP nightmare from the get-go--created as a puff piece, it got turned into an attack piece. Admins can see the long and sordid history, which is littered with BLP violations including a number by User:Kevin McE, and a few real bad ones by User:Woodywing. The long and short of it is that I saw no other option than to delete the whole damn thing and start all over again--I explained this on the talk page. (I also left a note on BLPN.) I believe I have good reasons for my actions, and the support of a number of admins, including Ritchie333, who was kind enough to pitch in and help write up a neutral stub. Kevin McE (and Woodywing) were notified of the problems with their edits and yet persisted--Kevin McE's disruption is obviously based on either a crusader mentality or a personal animosity toward the subject, or both. In his zeal to discredit even the subject's own account of his childhood he seems to argue that it does not matter that there are reliable sources for the subject's account; I explained how problematic this was on the talk page. In the meantime, NeilN visited the talk page, and TParis fully protected the article since Kevin McE is now at 3RR (and Ritchie and I can edit/revert through protection, of course--I understand TParis's protection but I'm glad they protected the version that is not a BLP violation and does not tacitly endorse one).
I am neither involved with the subject or this particular editor, but I would rather have someone else confirm that this behavior is unacceptable. I want this editor topic-banned from this article: they clearly cannot edit objectively, and have no desire (or competence) to remain within policy. While we're on the topic, you can see that Woodywing's edits are even more problematic, and they need to be banned from this article as well, but it's Kevin McE's edit warring that brings us here.
- No such user, the article has already been deleted and stubbed. You're looking at the "new" version: admins can see that Kevin McE was quite active in that first version also, though those edits were more moderate; calling the informant "unreliable" (diff above) and (in an edit on the talk page "a proven liar", that's not "content". He clearly is way too involved with the subject, which combined with a lack of understanding of BLP is problematic. Sandstein, the dispute isn't so much whether one or more sources are reliable, but rather the principle of reliability: Kevin McE does not seem to understand the principle of voice and of editorial oversight, which is why he keeps removing content--see this comment and this one by Ritchie333, and this one by GoldenRing. If y'all can talk some sense into this editor I'll gladly drop this case. Drmies (talk) 12:14, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
- Let me reiterate: if Kevin McE understands the problems with these edits (having been reverted three times by three different administrators) and edit summaries, I'm fine with dropping this. But please understand I'm not asking for anything draconian: the request is for him to stay away from this one article only. Drmies (talk) 14:25, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Notification on Kevin McE's talk page.
Discussion concerning Kevin McE
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Kevin McE
In view of the comments made by others, I really don't see that I have any need to defend myself here. The only accusation against me is that I removed information that does not seem trustworthy.
I object strongly to Drmies's attempt to categorise me; "Kevin McE's disruption is obviously based on either a crusader mentality or a personal animosity toward the subject, or both." I have no knowledge of Young other than having been involved in challenging several articles that have been started about him over the course of many years by a whole series of sockpuppets, which many admins have assumed to be incarnations of Young himself or someone very close to him. If trying to keep false claims out of Wikipedia makes me a crusader, then strap a breastplate with a picture of a lion on me. Otherwise do not make ad hominem attacks.
I believe that the conduct of Drmies in this situation is thoroughly reprehensible. Apart from the above, he has made false accusations about my posts; he has refused to state whether he has made himself aware of the history of deleted articles about Young; he deleted an article without any reference to those who had worked on it; he has acted arrogantly and rudely, and unbecoming of an admin. Kevin McE (talk) 16:54, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
My reply to Bbb23 below was deleted, apparently I am not allowed to reply to comments about my edits in the place where such comments are made, which seems odd, but hey ho... So I replicate it here: His self-authored attempts at articles about himself here were full of palpably false claims (that he was on top level road race cycling team Milram, that he was a Triathlon champion, etc); he denied accusations, subsequently proven, that he had cheated in the run across America. I fail to see how, in the light of this, my description is flawed. Kevin McE (talk) 19:27, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by No such user
May I suggest that everyone takes a deep breath and dials back some?
Kevin is apparently aggravated now, but Drmies did not help de-eascalate, on the contrary. In particular, I don't find diffs provided by Drmies as BLP violations per se, but a rather plain editing dispute. And I find it odd that removal' of material may constitute a BLP violation, particularly as it is not used to counterbalance anything. – There, Kevin has a point that an interview with the subject is not a first-class reliable source, as it gives ample opportunity for self-serving statements. At a minimum, if veracity of information provided by the subject is challenged, we avoid stating it in Wikipedia voice but use disclaimers such as "claims". And we always have an editorial option to exclude information brought by supposedly reliable sources if there are serious reasons to distrust it – see e.g. Talk:Bijeljina_massacre#RfC: Plavsic "stepping over a dead body"?.
During the dispute, Kevin lost his cool and he probably did violate BLP in edit summaries or talk page comments, but I'd suggest closing this AE with no action, taking a deep breath, and starting a serious discussion what to do with the article, preferably with a clean slate (=minimal stub). No such user (talk) 08:35, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Bbb23
I simply want to highlight this edit made by Kevin at WP:BLPN ("the only source of any biographical information (the subject himself) is entirely unreliable and a serial liar in the media"), which I subsequently reverted as a BLP violation. If this diff has already been posted, my apologies.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:46, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by TParis
- @Sandstein: - My primary concern when protecting the article was that the removal of material only left a single sentence introducing the subject followed by a paragraph of negative information. The removal, then, produced a WP:COATRACK. I'd rather the article be deleted and salted, but I decided that protection with reverted version alleviated the immediate BLP concerns while discussion could happen.--v/r - TP 18:16, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by NeilN
While this request concerns Kevin McE, I can understand his subsequent frustration as admin behavior surrounding the full protection of this article hasn't been the best. While I understand why TParis restored the material before fully protecting, I don't agree the restoration met the level of being treated as an admin action. And Black Kite's removal, while made in good faith, was based on an incorrect assumption as I explained on the talk page. [38] Kevin McE's main argument I believe is that newspaper reports should not be taken at face value. Drmies article edits and talk page posts seem a bit inconsistent on this matter. He says that "newspapers that are considered reliable have editorial oversight" but this edit seems to be at odds with that statement as the source reports the abuse as a fact, and not simply a claim by Young. --NeilN talk to me 16:00, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by Collect
The Telegraph "article" is by a "Formula One Correspondent", and the New Statesman article is by a "Features Editor". Both appear connected with release of a book by the person, and refer to claims made therein.
The problem, alas, is that the "problem editor" here is likely correct, noting that The Guardian in [39] states "“[His] tracker and GPS data are cans of worms,” Robert Lopez wrote to Ultra List subscribers. “There is a day that Rob’s RV got stuck in the desert. The location is known. [...] Whether he legged out the 40-plus road miles or somehow orienteered his way through the brush without navigational aids, [his] time is incredible. And I mean that in the literal sense.”" and so on. [40] states that his sponsor found that Young had received "unauthorized assistance" in his record-=setting trek.
Sports Illustrated in [41] has "So Delmott decided to accompany Young as he ran through Lebo (just east of Emporia) about 1 a.m. on Sunday, June 5. The problem, said Delmott, was that he found Young's RV, but never saw the Brit running. " and ""The part where I disagree with their account is simply whether Rob was running with the RV," says Delmott. "In total that night, I saw the RV at four separate occasions, and never saw a runner. I also got videos, which do not show a runner, or the flashlight they claim he uses to signal a stop. In summary, they might have been scared, but Rob wasn't running down the road." ".
Thus we ought to recognize that an autobiography and press releases for such a book may not be allowed under WP:BLP as being essentially an SPS with no actual fact-checking. And that reputable reliable sources do, indeed, raise substantive doubts about the veracity of the record-holder who was not seen running. Runners World has [42] that Young's "TomTom account" indicates that he did not run large portions of the route. I urgently suggest that no punishment ensue for a person who has accurately reported what the fact-checking publications say, and not rely on press release material. Collect (talk) 17:03, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
The report made to the runner's sponsor is at skins.net. The bad part is a chart (figure 3) showing a stride rate of under 10 per minute for long distances (slow walk). "A. Before observation, a high number of sessions had impossible step length implications. This has been shown in various ways previously (Figures 4-7 and Table 1). B. Before observation, there was a significant difference between day-time and night-time sessions, with the majority of impossible stride parameters coming from night-time sessions (see also Table 1 for details)" This is a strong factual assertion by people skilled in making such determinations. I am inclined to give credence to the expert report, noting that Skins ceased supporting Young, and that many European journals have printed this material at this point. Collect (talk) 18:25, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Kevin McE
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- This looks like a content dispute to me, and I would take no AE action. It is difficult to conceive of somebody merely removing material as a BLP violation, except in unusual circumstances (e.g., omitting that a person accused of a crime was later acquitted). The complaint does not make sufficiently clear how the edits are supposed to violate the BLP policy. They may be problematic under other aspects, such as edit-warring, but that is outside the scope of AE. Disagreement about whether a source is sufficiently reliable is a typical content dispute. Sandstein 11:04, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
- TParis, you make a good argument that the actions by Kevin McE do raise BLP concerns by resulting in a negative coatrack article. This is the sort of dispute that I'd expect veteran editors such as him to be able to handle with more nuance and tact than blind reverting. I do also have a problem, though, with admins Black Kite ([43]) and Drmies ([44]) now editing the article through full protection, even if they seem to be acting on good faith BLP concerns: this could well be seen as the use of admin tools to gain an advantage in a content dispute. On that basis, I'm still reluctant to sanction Kevin McE alone, and recommend that all interested editors take it back to the talk page and attempt to develop consensus in a collegial manner. Sandstein 19:15, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
- I agree with Sandstein and would just add that Kevin really needs to exercise more restraint in some of his edit summaries. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:33, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
- I, actually, agree with TParis. Removal of material can result in a biographical article becoming unduly negative, which therefore may raise BLP concerns. The "serial liar" comment is also obviously a BLP violation. I wouldn't say it warrants a topic ban, but if problems continue, that certainly would become more likely. El_C 03:14, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
FreeatlastChitchat
FreeatlastChitchat (talk · contribs) is warned regarding their TBAN. No block at this time as request is stale. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 17:22, 14 May 2017 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning FreeatlastChitchat
Has made only 19 edits since May 14 2016 and most of them were made in violation of topic ban. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:29, 13 May 2017 (UTC)
Discussion concerning FreeatlastChitchatStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by FreeatlastChitchatI think I violated the Tban on Muhammad Ali Jinnah. I was just going through my watchlist and reverted the change. I apologize for that, it will not happen again, you can put a warning on my TP and log it if you want to go through the motions. As far as Ahmadiyya is concerned, it is an international religion and does not come under the Tban. Religions do not come under geographical Tbans, but articles about religions in a particular country come under Tbans. So I can freely edit Ahmadiyya, but I am not allowed to edit Ahmadiyya in Pakistan and Ahmadiyyat in India. FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 06:51, 14 May 2017 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning FreeatlastChitchat
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