Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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See also: Logged AE sanctions

Important information

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Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
request contentious topic restrictions against previously alerted editors who engage in misconduct in a topic area designated as a contentious topic,
request page restrictions (e.g. revert restrictions) on pages that are being disrupted in topic areas designated as contentious topics, or
appeal arbitration enforcement actions (including contentious topic restrictions) to uninvolved administrators.

For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

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Ihardlythinkso

User:Ihardlythinkso is indefinitely topic-banned from post-1932 American Politics, broadly construed. This sanction may be brought here for reconsideration after six months. GoldenRing (talk) 01:03, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Ihardlythinkso

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: MrX (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:47, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Ihardlythinkso (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBAPDS

"Wikipedia editors are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other editors; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system, is prohibited."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

May 5, 2017 (mild) personal attack
May 5, 2017 Blatant (possibly libelous) WP:BLP violation
May 6, 2017 Personal attack
May 9, 2017 Personal attack and politicising disputes
May 9, 2017 Personal attack and politicising disputes

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

August 2, 2016 Topic banned
August 2, 2016 Blocked for personal attacks
November 7, 2016 AE sanction

January 31, 2017 Blocked for personal attacks

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on November 7, 2016 by Lankiveil (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on July 20, 2016

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The diffs speak for themselves.

This editor has once again ramped up the personal attacks and general battleground behaviour. The latest attacks directed at me include a ridiculous accusation of stalking after I reverted his reversion of what I considered a good edit. Of course, before accusing me of stalking, he reverted again.- Mr X 21:47, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notified

Discussion concerning Ihardlythinkso

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Ihardlythinkso

What do you want a response on? The Donald Trump page is left open to disparaging remarks about the bio subject's character; that page needs to be patrolled better by admins. It's hypocrisy or bias to stomp down on "equal time" remarks about his rival. (And nothing I posted was any worse than available RSs about the character of that person, proof is Jeanine Pirro's opening statement here.) The WP is already liberally biased and I'm seldom on the Donald Trump article Talk especially because of it. Notice editors like Anythingyouwant are ostracized there and nitpicked unendingly until chased away. MrX is part of that effort. He takes a front seat to bias that article, including elimination of me through lecture, reversion, stalking, and insult. (The hypocrisy of recently informing me that as editor I'm "insignificant" and "Good day!" followed by opening this case.) There is no doubt in my mind WP is overrun w/ liberal bias, even the Remembrance Project is laced with coloring the founder with ties and motivations connected somehow to Hitler. As far as battlegrounding with any of this bias, that is absurd, there is too much of it and it has gone on for too long and is too pervasive. No one rational would spend their time in attempt to NPOV it back to respectability for an encyclopedia. And I have no interest at that article except to peek once in awhile, and if I make a post about something it is becauase the absurdity & bias is so rampant, a comment saying the King has No Clothes was called for. So pick on me, go ahead. I do not really give a damn. It isn't about me, it is about the blatant bias that is and has been already there. Be proud. I am not. And would never recommend any friends of family to read WP political articles. I've already seen enough and discussed enough w/ people offline about this to know everything I've said is true. So I don't give a damn about your power to ban me from that article or even political articles. The editor with agenda are those that bias it. Look at my edit history to see if I have improved political articles and if so how. I do not add bias but I might revert it. At the Pruitt lede I reverted a new claim that Pruitt "intends to dismantle the EPA", even though it was not a summary of anything near that in the article, and the refs posted to support the contention lead with an opinion piece. The statement is equivalent to putting mind-reading in Wikipedia's voice, supported by op-ed. Blatant bias. When I specified that I reverted on those bases, MrX reverted me with only "it was a good edit". Wow. Do not blame me for the absurd bias of articles and the majority of liberal NPOV warriors out to denegrate Trump and anything associated with him. I know the hatred is there in MSM, and Wikipedia is a sort of MSM, also dominated by liberal POV. Now one of those warriors is out for blood. And I don't give a care if you give it too him, because as mentioned the status of things is already too-far gone, and I've never ever been a part of any generealized effort to reverse it, I have more realistic things to do w/ my time. But obviously this is very important to MrX and others who support the liberal bias, they outnumber any of the opposers like Anythingyouwant. (Who along with me was accused of "disruption" and "this must be stopped" simply from taking the position in discussion that if it is mentioned Trump did not win a majority of the popular vote, that his implied or stated main opponent didn't either. Somehow, the logic of that is impossible to see, or takes excruciating effort to see, as per comments at that Talk. Give me a break.)

BTW, what was it I was supposed to respond to specifically?

Another thing, the previous ban of me on the Donald Trump article was bogus and unfair (par for the course, good job Bish, I went to your Talk to complain about something else besides the ban you supported, and another user follows me to your Talk to harass me, a user whose biggest objection is that I added a blockquote to a quote greater than 40 words per MoS, and that I changed a piped link from an article specifically about history of women's rights in U.S., to an article about feminism in the U.S., which was more what the relevant article topic was about, and somehow I get blocked at her Talk when objecting to the user harassing me there). The article stated that Trump in the Hollywood tape referred to his assults against women, synonymous to admission of having committed crimes against them, when he never made any such admission, so why is WP stating so if MSM biased RSs exist that like/want to say so? (The answer is, because the editors dominating the article are just as biased and smear-enthusiastic as the MSM.) I did the right thing to protect a living BLP subject from such trashy statements, and what did I get? Banned. Good one. (And now use that ban as further evidence that I need another ban? Oh good one. That's so impressive! Not.) --IHTS (talk) 00:40, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You need to be specific for me to understand your meaning. (Do mean the list of adjectives I posted about Hillary?) Please be specific what you mean, and where (diff). At my Talk please, not here. Thx. --IHTS (talk) 00:57, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Ihardlythinkso

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Awaiting their statement, but I'm already strongly inclined to issue an extended topic ban. After being sanctioned in this topic area twice before, and after numerous blocks for this kind of behavior, there's no change in conduct. An indef topic ban with the opportunity to appeal in 6 months seems more than appropriate based on this lengthy record. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 22:13, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Concur. Sandstein 22:40, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'll leave some time for a statement, but I also agree that the material presented here seems to reasonably well speak for itself. This is absolutely not what we need in a sensitive and already tense area. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 23:22, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hard to disagree. This is not the editing approach we need anywhere on Wikipedia, but it seems clear that the AP area sets it off. GoldenRing (talk) 23:26, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Topic ban should be granted. GoldenRing, it is true that AP turns the heat up a little bit, but this is out of all proportion. Drmies (talk) 00:10, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't trying to make excuses for him. And now we've got that statement.... wow. @Ihardlythinkso: Even if everything you say is true, your bias or point-of-view is not the problem here; the problem is the very combative an uncollegial way in which you approach this topic area. GoldenRing (talk) 00:52, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

SPECIFICO

No action taken. Editors cautioned to be careful about reverting edits in this topic area. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 18:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning SPECIFICO

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: JFG (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:13, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: SPECIFICO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBAPDS / 1RR violation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

01:42, 10 May 2017 first revert (of this edit)
19:41, 10 May 2017 second revert (of this edit)

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

The editor is currently subject to other sanctions but they are not relevant to this case.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Warned in May 2016 by Coffee, December 2016 by Sagecandor and January 2017 by Octoberwoodland. Participated in numerous WP:AE threads. Routinely threatens other editors of sanctions (which recently resulted in a custom sanction to prevent disruption).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

In her reply below, SPECIFICO alleges that I also violated 1RR today, although none of the two cited edits are reverts. Making unfounded accusations is an unfortunate habit of this editor:

I am asking admins to take into account this pattern of disruptive behaviour which contributes to a poor editing climate on articles which are contentious enough on their face. — JFG ^talk 00:03, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Done. [1]

Discussion concerning SPECIFICO

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by SPECIFICO

Entirely my error, however I believe that @MrX: subsequently made the same edit as my second one after JFG reinstated his preferred version thereby making it unnecessary for me to self-revert. I will be more careful to check the edit history hereafter. I noticed my error when I saw JFG's own second revert here, after this one here less than an hour earlier. However, unlike JFG I chose not to open a complaint since, like my mistake, his second revert is now moot. SPECIFICO talk 23:27, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Darouet

I routinely disagree with SPECIFICO on content issues at this article, and have been upset by their many warnings / threats of sanctions against editors, myself included, which are typically made without evidence. However, this is a single simple infraction. I don't think it's worthwhile to "catch" someone on a one-off like this: it will just worsen the editing atmosphere. I'd recommend that the issue be resolved on the talk page. -Darouet (talk) 23:36, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by MrX

I agree with Darouet. Best practice is to give an editor an opportunity to self-revert before reporting them, unless of course there is a pattern of edit warring.- Mr X 23:42, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning SPECIFICO

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

The only thing that gives me pause here is the history; on the specifics of this incident, and given the statements above, I'm inclined to take no action on this. GoldenRing (talk) 00:06, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Agree w/ GoldenRing above, with the proviso that I don't like SPECIFICO going to JFG's page over and over with challenges about revert rules. If you think there's a violation, bring it here. Thankfully, that shouldn't continue. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 04:21, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would also tend to agree with the above. I certainly don't like the constant accusations of violations everywhere either, but that's already been dealt with. As far as the single 1RR violation, well, yes, it is one, but it's not even of the same material, and I'm inclined to believe error rather than malice, and it looks like several people may have made the same one. I'd close with a caution to be more careful before hitting the revert button, especially when 1RR is in place. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 15:54, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No More Mr Nice Guy

No More Mr Nice Guy is blocked for 72 hours. Sandstein 21:34, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning No More Mr Nice Guy

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Oncenawhile (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 10:20, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: No More Mr Nice Guy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBPIA and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_3 :

Per notice at top of Talk:Balfour Declaration:

"All articles related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, broadly construed, are under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period)"
"Consensus required: Editors are required to obtain consensus through discussion before restoring a reverted edit."

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

02:39, 9 January 2017 reverts to version first added in this series of edits from September 2016 [2] by User:Epson Salts. I objected to this edit immediately on talk [3], but there was no response, and I did not revert. After editing the article body on this topic over a period of weeks, I then conformed the lead text here [4]
17:29, 25 March 2017 I did not report this, because I had only just become aware of the relatively new sanction myself (see [5]) This was discussed at [6], where the editor stated he would not discuss on talk unless others join. I did not revert (I have not touched the text since the mid-March diff linked above)
00:48, 11 May 2017 Re-reverted after the text was removed in [7] this edit by another user. No discussion on talk.
01:08, 11 May 2017 Same material re-added 20 minutes later. Still no discussion on talk.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date Explanation
Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Clear from this comment that he was aware [8]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The comments below have been taken off course by other topics merged into the discussion. What appears to have been missed is that No More Mr Nice Guy's edits 3 and 4 above were a clear violation of 1RR. So in aggregate these edits contravened ARBPIA rules past, present and future: the old ARBPIA 1RR bright line, the current consensus requirement, and the soon-to-be-implemented new 1RR wording being discussed at WP:ARCA.

Have said that, what I find much more troublesome is No More Mr Nice Guy's comment at [9], where the editor stated that he felt no need to enter into discussion to support his continuing reverts. Oncenawhile (talk) 20:43, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[10]

Discussion concerning No More Mr Nice Guy

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by No More Mr Nice Guy

The material has been there since at least September 2016. My edits are the "reverted edit" one needs consensus to "restore" in the requirement Oncenawhile quoed above. If anything, Rjensen is the one who violated the requirement when he redid his edit which I reverted (edit [11], revert [12], restore edit without consensus [13]), but the issue seems to have been resolved (except insofar as Oncenawhile thinks he can weaponise it, apparently). No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 15:06, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@KI, you're correct. The text was written by me as a compromise between texts Nishidani and Epsom Salts put in the article. Nishidani did not complain about it at the time or since, but apparently couldn't give up the opportunity to try to get rid of an opponent with a ridiculously illogical guilt by association argument. Talk about disingenuous. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 23:17, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Since Nishidani brought it up, opening himself to BOOMERANG, could someone have a look at the behavior I complained about here, which he mentioned below? "Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis." like he did here (among many other places) fits part of the definition of antisemitism recently adopted by, among others, the UK government [14] to "ensure that culprits will not be able to get away with being antisemitic because the term is ill-defined, or because different organisations or bodies have different interpretations of it"? Why is he allowed to harass other editors like this? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 16:30, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nishidani, thanks for admitting you made an analogy to the Nazis, and tailored your response to your interlocutors being Jewish - "I asked the two editors how they would respond to reading of something similar in their own cultural tradition". Why you think that makes it better rather than worse is anyone's guess. It doesn't even matter that your analogy is ridiculous or that your retrospective rationalization attempts fall flat to a simple reading of your post. What really happened here is that a couple of Jews did something you didn't like, so you said something hurtful, as is your wont. This sort of thing supposedly goes against everything Wikipedia editing stands for, but is allowed for some reason when you do it. Over and over. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 18:39, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The treatment of Jews in Poland by the Nazis in the 1940s is part of whose "cultural tradition"? Jews or Israelis? Do you really think everyone here is stupid? No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 20:14, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, the good old "Black people call each other the N-word, so why can't I?" defense. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 14:31, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nishidani, speaking of animus, if you hadn't showed up here and tried to smear me with your disingenuous guilt by association argument, we wouldn't be having this discussion. All you had to do is stay out of it. And I was obviously referring to your last post in my previous one. "Serious reading problems", indeed. Kudos for writing twice as much as everyone else combined, by the way. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 17:50, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Kingsindian

I think this request is a bit premature. The article has been changed significantly since the lead was written: the lead would need to be rewritten anyway, and this point can then be addressed. It's not worth fighting over this matter now, per WP:DEADLINE. Since I think that the ARBPIA rule (currently at ARCA) is idiotic and counterproductive, I would definitely not want any "prosecution" under the rule. The dispute is still manageable. That said, I would prefer that NMMNG self-revert and (a) either propose an acceptable wording, or at least reply to my comments here or (b) simply wait till a new lead is written. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 10:47, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's not useful to bring in Epson Salts/NoCal here. From what I can see, the current phrasing was indeed by NMMNG. In any case, we need not go into who added what. This is mostly a content dispute, the main problem is that there's no "consensus" version to restore to. The earlier version was made by Epson Salts (a sock), Nishidani and NMMNG. That's just 2 people; too narrow a base for consensus on for such an important part of the article. As I argue on the talkpage, the text does not summarize the source anyway; for instance: Sykes Picot in 1916, which directly contradicted the McMahon correspondence in many respects, is not mentioned at all. I suggest that the whole paragraph be moved to the talk page where an appropriate formulation be hashed out. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 04:46, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The original request is, in my opinion, not suitable for AE; it is too blunt an instrument. However, I would like the admins to strongly admonish NMMNG to not make accusations of anti-Semitism against Nishidani. This is not the first time he has done it. He can believe whatever nonsense he likes in private, but it is not permitted to make such serious accusations on Wikipedia. Kingsindian ♝ ♚ 13:54, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Shrike

The second edit by NNMG is exempt from revert count as it reverted the violation of consensus clause so 1RR and no violation of consensus clause.--Shrike (talk) 13:07, 11 May 2017 (UTC) Still I don't understand why only NNMG is reported other people broke the rule too--Shrike (talk) 14:27, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Zero0000

To editor Shrike: You are citing the rules incorrectly. The arbcom ruling allows reverts to enforce the General Prohibition, not reverts to enforce the consensus clause. Zero^talk 13:52, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Malik Shabazz

While it's true that I didn't use the magic phrase "consensus clause -- which is so magical that the requirement that it be invoked has never been announced -- anybody but an absolute moron (or a blind pro-Israeli POV pusher) would recognize that I invoked the clause in my edit summary: "removing material that is still under discussion on the talk page -- please read WP:ARBPIA -- a five-hour 'I agree' among four like-minded editors is not consensus". I will note for future reference, however, that at least one administrator is unable to see the reference to ARBPIA and consensus in the edit summary and put 2+2 together and get 4; in the future, I will assume the stupidity of all administrators and use the magic phrase "consensus clause". — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:20, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

May I suggest that if El C wishes to continue to be considered WP:UNINVOLVED, he should stop parroting the party line.[15][16] I have nothing to do with this complaint against No More Mr Nice Guy, and I don't appreciate his bringing me into it. — MShabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 12:20, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nishidani

If the first revert restored in January of this year edits made by Epson Salts, then NMMGG was knowingly restoring text that had been introduced by a sockpuppet of one of the most deleterious sockmasters in the I/P area, NoCal100, some months, (October_2016 October 2016) i.e. within fresh memory of Epsom Salts' indefinite ban as a sock. If so, then this is particularly disingenuous, indeed . . .Nishidani (talk) 19:51, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

El_C. In any complex edit and discussion, one can select any handful of things to prove someone, here Shabazz, is aggressive. All one does is waive looking closely at over all behavior. In this case, The simple statistics are at the Balfour page that,

Oncenawhile has done 419 edits to that page, and is trying to bring it to FA status on this centenary year. NNMGG 7.
Oncenawhile has used the talk page 74 times, extensively. NMMGG jotted 5 brief notes on the talk page, one a self-revert.

That the non-productive, mainly absent editor, refers to 'consensus' to revert someone who has, unlike himself, thoroughly exercised collegiality on the talk page, actually does some positive work in here and that the illusory consensus appealed to is a convenient fiction to restore a sockpuppet's contributions and, it would seem, give the appearance of a rational justification for just destroying someone's careful work. If you find Malik's remark peculiar, I guess you missed this, which is typical of an 'attitude', after which he can spin my note here as proof of an inability to'give up the opportunity to try to get rid of an opponent with a ridiculously illogical guilt by association argument.' NMMGG, as often as not, just guts stuff usually, with no attempt to carefully find a moderate compromise. Admins are required to not only to master the niceties of policy (rather that scour for AGF nuances), but to be neutral, something done by carefully examining in depth all angles. That said, I tend to side with Kingsindian's call, though he does ignore in my view the fact that NMMGG's behavior is not collegial, and that requires a warning.Nishidani (talk) 10:12, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

NMMGG. When I see people just dropping a line saying 'no' to some proposed edit, I argue the logic of it. In this case 2 editors, with their legitimate national POV, just stated there was no violence worth listing in the relevant article, in denying medical aid to a boy in Gaza, who then died. He died of the heart condition an Israeli hospital had earlier diagnosed him as suffering from. He died reportedly because his application to be treated in Israel (an obligation under the Geneva conventions) was turned down when, according to his family, he refused to become an informant on his neighbours in Gaza. My view was that this denial of life-saving medical assistance was effectively lethal, hence violent. To make the point, I asked the two editors how they would respond to reading of something similar in their own cultural tradition, referring them to a rule imposed on Polish doctors by an occupying army not to treat Jews, who must therefore look after themselves. It is immaterial to the cogency of the analogy that Nazism imposed that rule, the point being the rule is identical in both cases, but, I presume, an editor faced with the analogy, has to ask himself about the implications of his POV, which I assume would be appalled by the lethal consequences of the Nazi prohibition on assisting Jews, but indifferent to the fact that a boy in Gaza died because he was denied medical treatment by the occupying power. I can't find the diff but on some page I vaguely recall El_C saying that it was fair to include this case on that page, though perhaps my memory is inexact.This is not treating editors like 'shit'. It is asking them to reconsider their views in terms of 'neutrality' which means making a judgement on such issues irrespective of the ethnicity or nationality of the persons involved. I expect this should be hatted, as it has nothing to do with this AE issue at hand, and consists of pure distraction. My apologies to administrators, but these repeated efforts to brand me as an anti-Semite by NMMGG go back several years, and I am obliged to respond to them, since he won't desist. Nishidani (talk) 17:18, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's pointless arguing with anyone who cannot distinguish the decisions of a person acting on behalf of his government, i.e. Israel, and 'Jews'. I've never thought being Jewish has anything intrinsically to do with the state of Israel, or vice versa. Serious thinking is based on careful attention to nuance, and if you want to persist in collapsing everything into a dumb 'us/them' set of stereotypes, you'll see, in this context, anti-Semitism everywhere, particularly among Israelis or Jews who have no problem working for B'tselem or any other body concerned with human rights. My view of the world is that a very large number of states, the U.S. Russia, China, Australia, Japan etc,. to name just a few, have engaged in genocide, or ethnocide, and violations of the Geneva Conventions, and if I argue any specific issue with people from those states who are critical or indifferent to the victims, while defending their nation, I will invariably bring up analogies, often with Nazis, Fascism, Stalinism, etc., and ask my interlocutor why he or she is appalled by terror, or accepts it, solely in terms of evaluating the ethnicity of the victim. It's the foundational principle of the haskalah. Harangue away if you like, but I will only respond to admins, if they suspect there is something to this bizarre conviction of yours.Nishidani (talk) 19:07, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

'Stupid'? No, you are not stupid. You are, and have been for years, making a huge fuss at such analogies, which are normative in the scholarship, while quietly ignoring the fact that the 'Palestinians are Nazis' equation is one of the commonest memes in Israeli political discourse. Any mention of the former gets you outraged, and leads you to lay another predictable and tiresome indictment against 'our' anti-Semite (Wikipedia, you insist, is friendly to anti-Semites, because they won't take your personal complaint seriously): as to the latter, you pretend it doesn't exist. Here's a short reading list for you. Moshe Zuckermann (2002) p.66; Norman Finkelstein (2005) p.57; Yoram Peri(2000) pp.135-136: Peter Beinart (2012) [17]; Idith Zertal (2005), p.175: Joseph Massad (2006) p.134. Intellectual neutrality means never being intimidated by public pressures to skew or spin a conflict by the artful use of a wide-eyed scrutiny of one party's behavior, and a blinkered insouciance to the mirroring of what you find repulsive in discourse on the other. It's duplex thinking, and duplex gives us duplicity. So drop it.Nishidani (talk) 09:45, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ijon.Any generic parallel between two nations as interchangeable (Israel=Nazi Germany) erases the massive differences, and, in this case, smacks of anti-Semitism, because its blind hyperbole is so absurd as to allow no other conclusion. That doesn't rule out the heuristic value of making analogies on specific acts or policies, however. The point of any analogy is to remind one's interlocutor to be coherent in their value judgements. The British and American government definitions of anti-Semitism result from political negotiations and are disreputable, indeed farcical, for that very reason, and because they imply that numerous Jews of great moral distinction, like Yeshayahu Leibowitz and Gerald Kaufman (God bless his memory) were antisemites. We don't adopt political guidelines in Wikipedia on principle, because it would violate, at their core, fundamental policies of neutrality.Nishidani (talk) 15:32, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Re this you have serious reading problems if you think that noting Israeli politicians call Palestinians 'Nazis', is analogous to 'a "Black people call each other the N-word, so why can't I?" defense.' Your animus is evident in this persistent innuendo and the failure to grasp the most elementary rules of interpreting what is being said..Nishidani (talk) 16:59, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ijon Tichy

Regarding some of the issues discussed by Nishidani, see also: Criticism_of_the_Israeli_government#Comparisons_with_Nazi_Germany. ---- Ijon Tichy (talk) 13:40, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Kingsindian that admins should strongly caution NMMNG to not accuse Nishidani of anti-Semitism. NMMNG has made this accusation against Nishidani several times in the past several years. This type of accusation is in violation of Wikipedia policies. Ijon Tichy (talk) 19:52, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, this is not the first time NMMMG directly or indirectly attacked Nishidani by saying or implying that Nishidani has some hidden motives. In the vast majority of cases, Nishidani, or other users, have asked NMMMG to stop, but did not file a formal complaint against NMMMG at any of the admin noticeboards. Here is a diff (dated Feb. 2016) of a rare case when Nishidani formally complained against NMMMG at an admin noticeboard. In that case, the closing admin appears to have admonished NMMMG to refrain from personally attacking Nishidani: "Starting now, if NMMNG or OID ever again say or imply, even obliquely, that Nishidani supports NAMBLA, they will be blocked for a month ..." Ijon Tichy (talk) 20:03, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning No More Mr Nice Guy

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Zero is almost right—as there needs to be 7 votes to ratify the motion. But I suggest until it's ratified, we continue to treat consensus clause violations with some extra leniency. I did so for Malik Shabazz at Marwan Barghouti—issuing a warning instead of a block after he almost-violated 1RR with six minutes to spare ([18][19]—which I consider a flat out violation), partly because his revert was a consensus clause revert (even if he failed to announce it as such, that's what it was). Again, we need the consensus clause to have its own page and shortcut on the project space, so that users know whether, for example, a 1RR exemption applies to enforcing it (which it does not). Coffee volunteered to do so, but he appears to be MIA, so I am looking for a volunteer, everyone. El_C 03:02, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

With all the ample aggression (not for the first time, either—understated he is not coming across as), Malik Shabazz fails to realise that it doesn't matter what he announces, as Zero clarified and as I reiterated, 1RR exemption to enforce the consensus clause is not a thing. And if it wasn't for the extra leniency that he was afforded, he would been blocked for 1RR violation. He will not be afforded such lenience in the future. I suggest he tempers his tone. El_C 05:24, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If Malik Shabazz wishes to "assume the stupidity of all administrators" and infer that I'm an "absolute moron"—that's misguided, but it's his prerogative. Fact is that editors don't get to break 1RR to enforce the consensus clause, as he did the other day. I'll use any example I see fit to illustrate my point. El_C 15:16, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nishidani, if it wasn't clear, I was only addressing Zero's point in isolation, which I am entitled to do without suffering abuse just because I dare mention as an example a user whose hostility, frankly, confounds me. As for the case, I think Kingsindian's suggestion sounds like a decent plan. El_C 15:38, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The request has merit (while most of the discussion has none, consisting of name-calling or content disputes).
No More Mr Nice Guy violated WP:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction by, on 11 May 2017, reverting more than once within 24 hours somebody else's earlier removal of text that includes the passage "Palestine is not explicitly mentioned in the correspondence". We know that No More Mr Nice Guy's additions of this text were reverts because the complaint shows that the text was added on 25 March 2017 and subsequently removed on 8 May; its re-addition was therefore a revert. The merits of this text and whether it enjoys any degree of consensus are not relevant according to the remedy.
In addition, I consider it established that No More Mr Nice Guy violated the remedy's requirement that "editors are required to obtain consensus through discussion before restoring a reverted edit", because No More Mr Nice Guy does not dispute the complaint's assertion that No More Mr Nice Guy did not obtain or attempt to establish consensus for their two reverts on 11 May.
As to sanctions, No More Mr Nice Guy has a clean block log and only one earlier topic-related sanction that I can find, a ban from topic-related AE threads in 2013 (apparently never lifted, but not violated here, as No More Mr Nice Guy is commenting in their own defense). The remedy only provides for blocks as a sanction. Consequently, a brief block is appropriate as a first sanction. No More Mr Nice Guy is blocked for 72 hours. Sandstein 21:32, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Problematics

Closed with no action as editor was separately indef blocked as a confirmed sock puppet. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:45, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Problematics

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Capitals00 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 12:36, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Problematics (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBIND : [20] (page is under 1RR restriction)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Continuously blanking the section and content about Pakistan despite consensus on talk page as well as the recent page move discussion,[21] in which he opposed the present article name.

8 May - This is revert of [22]
10 May - 11:57
11 May - 12:02

This is violation of WP:1RR, even if he is waiting at least 24 hours 1 minute to make another revert. He is only editor to revert to his preferred version.

What's more suspicious is, that he is an WP:SPA, who registered the account on Apr 21, 2017 to edit these articles, however he has are clear WP:CIR issues. It has been impossible to make him agree and other editors are in favor of the version he continues to revert.[23][24] He has misrepresented the admin Amakuru's comments[25], despite he told him "for now it does appear to me that the consensus view is against you".[26] But he is not getting it, no matter how much others tell him.[27] Capitals00 (talk) 12:36, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously I consider it as 1RR violation. Looks like Problematics is misrepresenting my edits more than that and he is forgetting that he violated WP:3RR [28][29][30] on this article before it came under 1RR restriction. Capitals00 (talk) 14:00, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date Explanation
Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 3 May

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [31]

Discussion concerning Problematics

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Problematics

The above statements are misrepresentative of the actual events. Firstly, the article's scope is disputed, the Admin had confirmed that. It was in that background that I reverted this. And I was justified to do so by WP:NOCON. I explained myself on the talkpage before reverting. After that me and other users were having a discussion and this discussion is still ongoing. Not just me but User:Mar4d and User:Nadirali also lodged opinions on the talkpage in favour of retaining the article's old scope. [[32]] 2. User:Capitals00 then proceeded to falsely claim consensus (which he did not have as I explained here) and revert me. Nevertheless I did not revert User:Capitals00 because of 1RR on the page and even he has accepted I did not violate 1RR (by reverting WP:NOCON within 24 hours)). I feel this claim was filed in bad faith. It should also be known that this user was engaged in an edit war on the page in question, violated 3RR and was accused by another user on the article's talkpage of POV-editing. Problematics (talk) 12:58, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Kautilya3

This is a content dispute, albeit a pretty complicated one. It doesn't belong here. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 13:34, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lord Roem, there is no 1RR for this article. For some reason everybody is imagining it (which is a good thing of course). The AE restriction for Kashmir conflict articles is "no second revert without discussion" [33]. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:01, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by D4iNa4

Problematics doesn't seem to be dropping the issue and he is still making WP:POINT to disrupt wikipedia. He has been reverted by another editor after this report.[34] I also agree he wasn't born yesterday, and I am not sure about his motive but since he joined wikipedia he engaged himself in disruptive conduct. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like it's too invietable when disruptive user is reported, another POV pusher(Mar4d, TylerDurden) comes to defend in place of describing how this is not a WP:1RR violation. D4iNa4 (talk) 13:33, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tyler Durden

This is a content dispute. No point in bringing these issues here. The filer(s) are unnecessarily and meaninglessly doing this for the third time in the same dispute. — Tyler Durden (talk) 18:24, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Mar4d

This is as pointless as the previous 2 threads filed here. From the same article. Someone should leave a note on the filer's talk that WP:ARE is not a drawing room. Mar4d (talk) 13:05, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Marvellous Spider-Man

This is a content dispute, however Problematics is editing like WP:SPA. --Marvellous Spider-Man 15:40, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by MBlaze

Problematics had already violated WP:1RR [35][36], before he made this[37] yet another revert. This is a conduct issue, not a content issue. —MBlaze Lightning ^T 17:54, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Problematics

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

These are two reverts within the same few hours 1 and 2, and it seems like they're engaging in a slow-moving edit war. Without anything else though, I'm minded to close this with a warning to Problematics and a reminder that 1RR applies to any reversion, whether 'implementing consensus,' 'restoring the status quo,' or the like. The goal is to reduce edit wars and bring the conversation to the talk page. Everyone would be wise to do that. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 20:38, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Actually, it appears there is 1RR on the article, though there's no edit notice posted (thus why I'm not in favor of a sanction right now). Lord Roem ~ (talk) 21:10, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's my bad. Thanks for taking care of it. El_C 02:36, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Checkuser note: Problematics has been blocked as a Confirmed sock puppet.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:22, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Faizan. Thanks to User:Kautilya3 and User:Bbb23 for their investigative work. In my opinion this AE can be closed. EdJohnston (talk) 02:31, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kevin McE

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Kevin McE

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Drmies (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:27, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Kevin McE (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Editing of Biographies of Living Persons :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

11 May Kevin McE removes biographical paragraph, claiming the person interviewed is not reliable.
11 May Same edit, claiming no one on the talk page disagreed with him
11 May "Unreliable, no independent verification"--obviously incorrect, since the sources are The Daily Telegraph and New Statesman.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

User was notified of AC/DS for BLPs with this edit. This is right after I warned the editor for BLP violations (for basically calling the subject of the BLP a liar in their edit summary), and I left an extensive explanation on the talk page, here.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This little affair has a long history: as you can see on the talk page, the article, Robert Young (endurance runner), was a BLP nightmare from the get-go--created as a puff piece, it got turned into an attack piece. Admins can see the long and sordid history, which is littered with BLP violations including a number by User:Kevin McE, and a few real bad ones by User:Woodywing. The long and short of it is that I saw no other option than to delete the whole damn thing and start all over again--I explained this on the talk page. (I also left a note on BLPN.) I believe I have good reasons for my actions, and the support of a number of admins, including Ritchie333, who was kind enough to pitch in and help write up a neutral stub. Kevin McE (and Woodywing) were notified of the problems with their edits and yet persisted--Kevin McE's disruption is obviously based on either a crusader mentality or a personal animosity toward the subject, or both. In his zeal to discredit even the subject's own account of his childhood he seems to argue that it does not matter that there are reliable sources for the subject's account; I explained how problematic this was on the talk page. In the meantime, NeilN visited the talk page, and TParis fully protected the article since Kevin McE is now at 3RR (and Ritchie and I can edit/revert through protection, of course--I understand TParis's protection but I'm glad they protected the version that is not a BLP violation and does not tacitly endorse one).

I am neither involved with the subject or this particular editor, but I would rather have someone else confirm that this behavior is unacceptable. I want this editor topic-banned from this article: they clearly cannot edit objectively, and have no desire (or competence) to remain within policy. While we're on the topic, you can see that Woodywing's edits are even more problematic, and they need to be banned from this article as well, but it's Kevin McE's edit warring that brings us here.

No such user, the article has already been deleted and stubbed. You're looking at the "new" version: admins can see that Kevin McE was quite active in that first version also, though those edits were more moderate; calling the informant "unreliable" (diff above) and (in an edit on the talk page "a proven liar", that's not "content". He clearly is way too involved with the subject, which combined with a lack of understanding of BLP is problematic. Sandstein, the dispute isn't so much whether one or more sources are reliable, but rather the principle of reliability: Kevin McE does not seem to understand the principle of voice and of editorial oversight, which is why he keeps removing content--see this comment and this one by Ritchie333, and this one by GoldenRing. If y'all can talk some sense into this editor I'll gladly drop this case. Drmies (talk) 12:14, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let me reiterate: if Kevin McE understands the problems with these edits (having been reverted three times by three different administrators) and edit summaries, I'm fine with dropping this. But please understand I'm not asking for anything draconian: the request is for him to stay away from this one article only. Drmies (talk) 14:25, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Notification on Kevin McE's talk page.

Discussion concerning Kevin McE

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Kevin McE

In view of the comments made by others, I really don't see that I have any need to defend myself here. The only accusation against me is that I removed information that does not seem trustworthy.

I object strongly to Drmies's attempt to categorise me; "Kevin McE's disruption is obviously based on either a crusader mentality or a personal animosity toward the subject, or both." I have no knowledge of Young other than having been involved in challenging several articles that have been started about him over the course of many years by a whole series of sockpuppets, which many admins have assumed to be incarnations of Young himself or someone very close to him. If trying to keep false claims out of Wikipedia makes me a crusader, then strap a breastplate with a picture of a lion on me. Otherwise do not make ad hominem attacks.

I believe that the conduct of Drmies in this situation is thoroughly reprehensible. Apart from the above, he has made false accusations about my posts; he has refused to state whether he has made himself aware of the history of deleted articles about Young; he deleted an article without any reference to those who had worked on it; he has acted arrogantly and rudely, and unbecoming of an admin. Kevin McE (talk) 16:54, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My reply to Bbb23 below was deleted, apparently I am not allowed to reply to comments about my edits in the place where such comments are made, which seems odd, but hey ho... So I replicate it here: His self-authored attempts at articles about himself here were full of palpably false claims (that he was on top level road race cycling team Milram, that he was a Triathlon champion, etc); he denied accusations, subsequently proven, that he had cheated in the run across America. I fail to see how, in the light of this, my description is flawed. Kevin McE (talk) 19:27, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by No such user

May I suggest that everyone takes a deep breath and dials back some?

Kevin is apparently aggravated now, but Drmies did not help de-eascalate, on the contrary. In particular, I don't find diffs provided by Drmies as BLP violations per se, but a rather plain editing dispute. And I find it odd that removal' of material may constitute a BLP violation, particularly as it is not used to counterbalance anything. – There, Kevin has a point that an interview with the subject is not a first-class reliable source, as it gives ample opportunity for self-serving statements. At a minimum, if veracity of information provided by the subject is challenged, we avoid stating it in Wikipedia voice but use disclaimers such as "claims". And we always have an editorial option to exclude information brought by supposedly reliable sources if there are serious reasons to distrust it – see e.g. Talk:Bijeljina_massacre#RfC: Plavsic "stepping over a dead body"?.

During the dispute, Kevin lost his cool and he probably did violate BLP in edit summaries or talk page comments, but I'd suggest closing this AE with no action, taking a deep breath, and starting a serious discussion what to do with the article, preferably with a clean slate (=minimal stub). No such user (talk) 08:35, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Bbb23

I simply want to highlight this edit made by Kevin at WP:BLPN ("the only source of any biographical information (the subject himself) is entirely unreliable and a serial liar in the media"), which I subsequently reverted as a BLP violation. If this diff has already been posted, my apologies.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:46, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TParis

@Sandstein: - My primary concern when protecting the article was that the removal of material only left a single sentence introducing the subject followed by a paragraph of negative information. The removal, then, produced a WP:COATRACK. I'd rather the article be deleted and salted, but I decided that protection with reverted version alleviated the immediate BLP concerns while discussion could happen.--v/r - T P 18:16, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NeilN

While this request concerns Kevin McE, I can understand his subsequent frustration as admin behavior surrounding the full protection of this article hasn't been the best. While I understand why TParis restored the material before fully protecting, I don't agree the restoration met the level of being treated as an admin action. And Black Kite's removal, while made in good faith, was based on an incorrect assumption as I explained on the talk page. [38] Kevin McE's main argument I believe is that newspaper reports should not be taken at face value. Drmies article edits and talk page posts seem a bit inconsistent on this matter. He says that "newspapers that are considered reliable have editorial oversight" but this edit seems to be at odds with that statement as the source reports the abuse as a fact, and not simply a claim by Young. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 16:00, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Collect

The Telegraph "article" is by a "Formula One Correspondent", and the New Statesman article is by a "Features Editor". Both appear connected with release of a book by the person, and refer to claims made therein.

The problem, alas, is that the "problem editor" here is likely correct, noting that The Guardian in [39] states "“[His] tracker and GPS data are cans of worms,” Robert Lopez wrote to Ultra List subscribers. “There is a day that Rob’s RV got stuck in the desert. The location is known. [...] Whether he legged out the 40-plus road miles or somehow orienteered his way through the brush without navigational aids, [his] time is incredible. And I mean that in the literal sense.”" and so on. [40] states that his sponsor found that Young had received "unauthorized assistance" in his record-=setting trek.

Sports Illustrated in [41] has "So Delmott decided to accompany Young as he ran through Lebo (just east of Emporia) about 1 a.m. on Sunday, June 5. The problem, said Delmott, was that he found Young's RV, but never saw the Brit running. " and ""The part where I disagree with their account is simply whether Rob was running with the RV," says Delmott. "In total that night, I saw the RV at four separate occasions, and never saw a runner. I also got videos, which do not show a runner, or the flashlight they claim he uses to signal a stop. In summary, they might have been scared, but Rob wasn't running down the road." ".

Thus we ought to recognize that an autobiography and press releases for such a book may not be allowed under WP:BLP as being essentially an SPS with no actual fact-checking. And that reputable reliable sources do, indeed, raise substantive doubts about the veracity of the record-holder who was not seen running. Runners World has [42] that Young's "TomTom account" indicates that he did not run large portions of the route. I urgently suggest that no punishment ensue for a person who has accurately reported what the fact-checking publications say, and not rely on press release material. Collect (talk) 17:03, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The report made to the runner's sponsor is at skins.net. The bad part is a chart (figure 3) showing a stride rate of under 10 per minute for long distances (slow walk). "A. Before observation, a high number of sessions had impossible step length implications. This has been shown in various ways previously (Figures 4-7 and Table 1). B. Before observation, there was a significant difference between day-time and night-time sessions, with the majority of impossible stride parameters coming from night-time sessions (see also Table 1 for details)" This is a strong factual assertion by people skilled in making such determinations. I am inclined to give credence to the expert report, noting that Skins ceased supporting Young, and that many European journals have printed this material at this point. Collect (talk) 18:25, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Kevin McE

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This looks like a content dispute to me, and I would take no AE action. It is difficult to conceive of somebody merely removing material as a BLP violation, except in unusual circumstances (e.g., omitting that a person accused of a crime was later acquitted). The complaint does not make sufficiently clear how the edits are supposed to violate the BLP policy. They may be problematic under other aspects, such as edit-warring, but that is outside the scope of AE. Disagreement about whether a source is sufficiently reliable is a typical content dispute. Sandstein 11:04, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

TParis, you make a good argument that the actions by Kevin McE do raise BLP concerns by resulting in a negative coatrack article. This is the sort of dispute that I'd expect veteran editors such as him to be able to handle with more nuance and tact than blind reverting. I do also have a problem, though, with admins Black Kite ([43]) and Drmies ([44]) now editing the article through full protection, even if they seem to be acting on good faith BLP concerns: this could well be seen as the use of admin tools to gain an advantage in a content dispute. On that basis, I'm still reluctant to sanction Kevin McE alone, and recommend that all interested editors take it back to the talk page and attempt to develop consensus in a collegial manner. Sandstein 19:15, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Sandstein and would just add that Kevin really needs to exercise more restraint in some of his edit summaries. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:33, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I, actually, agree with TParis. Removal of material can result in a biographical article becoming unduly negative, which therefore may raise BLP concerns. The "serial liar" comment is also obviously a BLP violation. I wouldn't say it warrants a topic ban, but if problems continue, that certainly would become more likely. El_C 03:14, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

FreeatlastChitchat

FreeatlastChitchat (talk · contribs) is warned regarding their TBAN. No block at this time as request is stale. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 17:22, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning FreeatlastChitchat

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: D4iNa4 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:29, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: FreeatlastChitchat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan : Violation of indefinite topic ban on Pakistan, India, Afghanistan.[45][46]

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

9 May, abused rollback on a edit that removed some content from the article although didn't constituted vandalism. Freeatlastchithat reverted it 2 days later. Ahmadiyya was founded in India.
18 April Ahmadiyya again.
18 April Muhammad Ali Jinnah, credited as founder of Pakistan
18 April Nominated a Pakistan related article for deletion.

Has made only 19 edits since May 14 2016 and most of them were made in violation of topic ban. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:29, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lord Roem and Neutrality check again because the latest violation is his last article edit, 4 days ago, Ahmadiyya is most prevalent in India and was founded in India. This article requires lots of cleanup, recently 29,000 bytes were removed by other editor. Same thing was being done by an IP but Freeatlastchitchat halted those attempts with this revert[47] on 9 May, in this revert "Afghanistan" and "India" are both mentioned. Clear violation. Since he returned to wikipedia, he has been violating topic ban frequently. D4iNa4 (talk) 18:00, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any: [48] blocked before after ARE.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts): [49]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested: [50]

Discussion concerning FreeatlastChitchat

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by FreeatlastChitchat

I think I violated the Tban on Muhammad Ali Jinnah. I was just going through my watchlist and reverted the change. I apologize for that, it will not happen again, you can put a warning on my TP and log it if you want to go through the motions. As far as Ahmadiyya is concerned, it is an international religion and does not come under the Tban. Religions do not come under geographical Tbans, but articles about religions in a particular country come under Tbans. So I can freely edit Ahmadiyya, but I am not allowed to edit Ahmadiyya in Pakistan and Ahmadiyyat in India. FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 06:51, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning FreeatlastChitchat

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

The Muhammad Ali Jinnah article edit would definitely be a violation of the TBAN. My only hesitation is that they seem fairly inactive (2 edits in May, then a several week gap), so this requests feels stale. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 17:49, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The edit was an unequivocal topic-ban violation, but I would close as stale. We should issue a warning to the user for when he or she gets back. Neutrality^talk 17:58, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with Lord Roem. 4 days shouldn't be considered stale. If it is, the result will be editors racing to AE before trying other dispute resolution methods to beat the 4-day statute of limitations. And creating an atmosphere that encourages a race to AE is not what we want to do.--v/r - T P 00:08, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I was mistaken, I read this as 18 May, not 18 April.--v/r - T P 00:09, 14 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

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