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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tayi Arajakate (talk | contribs) at 07:20, 26 January 2021 (→BLP problems: Replying to Wareon (using reply-link)). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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BLP problems

@Tayi Arajakate: you must have mistaken but none of these descriptors are "reliably sourced descriptors" and Vishwajeet103 was right with the removal. The article is a WP:BLP and even if it wasn't, the content has to be correctly supported by the sources and the libelous information should be removed. The sources do not support any of these labels,[1] neither by this self-published source. I am not sure why Joshua Jonathan is eager to add such WP:BLP violation even after it has been removed by several editors.

Thank you Yoonadue Pharaoh of the Wizards for the updates. Wareon (talk) 05:45, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

B.B. Lal is historical revisionist. His reputation as an archadologist and head of the ASI is misused to present his revisionist views as reputable historical facts. For WP:NPOV, his revisionism should be mentioned as such. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:07, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wareon, there is no indication that source is self publishing, and it explicitly isn't Amazon as you seem to claim in this edit summary (Special:Diff/1002808815)? Droogan 2013 which is published by A & C Black, a mainstream academic publisher states the following, "...the case in the archeology of Indian religions in general, especially in Hinduism ... sometimes notorious, attempts to prove the historicity of religious myths ... through archeological fieldwork (see esp. Lal, 2002b; Ray, 2004)."
Further, the two additional references I added in Special:Diff/1002802975 refer to him as "historical revisionist", all of which contradicts your assertion of them being "not supported by any sources", why did you preserve the references but remove the content? Tayi Arajakate Talk 06:25, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"historical revisionist" should be adequately supported by the sources than our own half baked conclusions per WP:OR. Source does not mention those words. This is a self published source and the publisher is clearly noted as Amazon and does not even mention the term "negations". Overall it is unreliable. Wareon (talk) 06:32, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
[@JJ] Your own personal prejudice is irrelevant. Consider taking it outside Wikipedia. In this case you would need sufficient sourcing than your WP:OR given that archeologist in question is generally treated as eminent archaeologist by prolific scholars of the field such as Upinder Singh,[2] Tiffany Jenkins[3] and many more. Wareon (talk) 06:40, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Droogan (2012) p.67:

On occasion this has led to archaeological research being used as a weapon or tool in religious controversy and violence, often closely tied to contemporary nationalism. Hindu revisionist historians [...] revisionist historians [...] B.B. Lal

Muktar Ahmed, Ancient Pakistan is published by Foursome Group, not Amazon.
Statements like own half baked conclusions and personal prejudice are indicative of the pov-warrior stance we've seen so often here at Wikipedia. Your statement "generally treated" is your personal conclusion, that is, WP:OR. In contrast, "historical revisionist" is sourced. Per WP:NPOV, this should be mentioned.
This WP-article is being used to promote Lal's views on Indigenous Aryanism and the Adyodha disoute; it's typical that his publications on these topics are the only ones which have been elaborated on, while those are controversial publications. Think about that, when referring to WP:BLP. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:53, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Omitting a large number of words and pretending like it is a single sentence isn't conforming to WP:BLP. By misrepresenting a source you have somehow discovered and ignoring a large number of scholarly sources that treat him differently than you is indeed a violation of WP:NPOV. Wareon (talk) 07:02, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Those sources are clear; stating that we "misrepresent" is WP:TENDENTIOUS. It's not up to you to make a selection in favor of your personal views; Wikipedia presenets the relevant points of view, and this is one of them. No WP:CENSOR please. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:04, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see any mention of a "Foursome group" on the book's profile.

It is a self-published unreliable source and your continued misleading detailing of this book is further reducing your credibility. Wareon (talk) 07:07, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You are repeating your misleading statements; Droogan is published by AC Black; what is self-published about that? You removed diff the following statement:

His later publicastions have been noted for their historical revisionism [Droogan 2012, p.67]

edit-summary This is a BLP violation and not supported by the sources per talk page. Please explain very specifically how this statement of fact, from WP:RS, violates which aspect of WP:BLP; and how it is not suported by Droogan, who explicitly refers to Lal. Otherwise, your reverts and "arguments" are WP:TENDENTIOUS. Per WP:BLP, it says
The statement is verifiable; it balances the view of Lal a a 'reputed archaeologist'; and it is what Droogan writes, and other sources. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:15, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Your source say that "revisionist historians in India have used archaeological reports" and that archaeologist data "can be misinterpreted to serve nationalistic" agenda. Now if the archeological report was published by B B Lal, still he is not obliged to share responsibility. If you cannot understand this then you have a clear WP:CIR issue. Wareon (talk) 07:18, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"Foursome group" is the publisher of the book as available within the preview. Even assuming Droogan 2012 and Ahmed 2014 to be relatively hard to access, it doesn't explain how you can possibly claim that "Source does not mention those words." regarding the references which are readily available. Directly quoting from the following.
  • Tandom, Aditi (25 January 2021). "Former Japanese PM, Indian-American scientist Kapany on this year's Padma Vibhushan list". The Tribune. Retrieved 2021-01-26.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

Lal is well known as a Hindu historical revisionist and as former the director general of the ASI, was the first to excavate at the Ram Janmabhoomi-Babri Masjid site, besides carrying out excavations at the sites associated with the Mahabharata.

Indian archaeologist and Hindutva historical revisionist B. B. Lal

Tayi Arajakate Talk 07:20, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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