User talk:HJ Mitchell

Hello and welcome to my talk page! If you have a question, ask me. If I know the answer, I'll tell you; if I don't, I'll find out (or one of my talk-page stalkers might know!), then we'll both have learnt something!

Admins: If one of my admin actions is clearly a mistake or is actively harming the encyclopaedia, please reverse it. Don't wait for me if I'm not around or the case is obvious.

A list of archives of this talk page is here. Those in Roman numerals come first chronologically

This talk page is archived regularly by a bot so I can focus on the freshest discussions. If your thread was archived but you had more to say, feel free to rescue it from the archive.

UTRS Account Request

I confirm that I have requested an account on the UTRS tool. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts?

Talk page reinstatement

Regarding this edit, I'm curious where the line is between unactionable and BLP violation. To me, that's an accusation of ethical misconduct against multiple named living persons, not even in the context of a sourced opinion (on the contrary, specifically stating that it's original research). It's really no different from this edit or this edit—that's pretty much what this editor does—both of which were hatted and stayed hatted. Should I have hatted it as unactionable or FORUMy instead? Taken it to AE? I just don't see where the line is, where this is okay yet other accusations by this and other editors aren't. Woodroar (talk) 15:44, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I've no objection to hatting. It's not really a serious BLP issue to state that some journalists know each other (it's about as scandalous as some Wikipedians knowing each other!), even if it is done to impugn their motives, but it's not really on-topic either. Thanks for the other diffs; I've indef'd them, since they're not here to build an encyclopaedia. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:07, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I was mostly concerned with the "friends doing favors for friends doing favors for friends" comment, but I understand your side as well, so fair enough. I'll hat unproductive conversations going forward. Well, with other editors, since you've blocked this one. Cheers! Woodroar (talk) 19:52, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

31.221.29.100 (talk · contribs)

I've suppressed several edits by this IP. The vandalism goes back more than a week, so I'd suggest extending the block. Hopefully soon you can do all of this! Thanks for your post at ARCA. Dougweller (talk) 19:29, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Doug. I usually just do a spot check of edits when I'm processing AIV reports, but looking more closely that IP's registered to a business communications company. It looks like a VPN, and there's almost no legitimate reason to edit Wikipedia through a VPN, so I've hard-blocked it for a year. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:13, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

In fact there are so few reasons to edit through a VPN that I've blocked the /29 the company uses. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

How did you determine it's a VPN? And business communication? It's [1]. Whew, copy and paste almost gave you a recipe for pineapple upside down cake with bourbon, but I caught it before saving! Dougweller (talk) 12:30, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

VPN was a guess. The IP belongs to Exponential-e Ltd, and VPNs are one of the services they provide according to their website. But I overlooked that the client was SW Durham Training (which explains the interest in Darlington and Bishop Auckland). I'll soften it to a schoolblock. I was never much of a fan of bourbon, but I never met a Scotch I didn't like! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:20, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

A cookie for you!

Lixxx235 has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. You can spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.

Thanks for all the work you've done at AE, including the decisions I don't quite agree with.

To spread the goodness of cookies, you can add {{subst:Cookie}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or eat this cookie on the giver's talk page with {{subst:munch}}!

--L235 (talk) As a courtesy, please ping me when replying. 12:47, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

@Lixxx235: Thanks. As I'm sure you can imagine, it's not always easy work. And some case feel a lot like being caught between a rock and a hard place, so the appreciation is, well, appreciated! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:25, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Help remove the one reminders/warnings

Hi! HJ Mitchell, I saw some people help maintain the Delta ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Electronics ) page recently and the information looks not bad. Just wondering could you remove the one reminders/warnings dated Jan. 2011 respectively on the top? Or they may confuse people who refer to the page. Thank you. Xilachang (talk) 22:10, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

And...

Thank you for looking at the socking evidence for Wifi again. It's to your credit. Unblock Makrandjoshi and I'll edit my vote in your RFA to "support". Seriously, though, thank you for being willing to look at stuff a second time. It speaks volumes to your character. Cheers. Begoon ^talk 15:32, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. And you're welcome. I'm not infallible, and I try to keep that in mind. And in this case the socking is certainly a lot more likely than not. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:04, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Just for you!

	Just for you!
	Your own banhammer! Awarding you with it for all your help with vandalism! 5 albert square (talk) 21:24, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Ha! Thanks. Must get me a real one of them! ;) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:05, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

I'd like a personalised one just in case other admins try to nick mine! :p--5 albert square (talk) 22:23, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Signing

You might want to re-sign this: [2]. Stickee (talk) 22:13, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:38, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

To Confirm/Learn

So, BANEX covers even talk pages, despite the user having been topic banned explicitly for battleground behavior and Ownership? I want to make sure, since the general consensus in that Enforcement Request was so, and your hatting it also said so, and I like to know this kind of thing in no uncertain terms. Thank you for your time. AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 03:11, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

(Talk Page Stalker) Not to speak for HJ Mitchell, but a BLP violation is a BLP violation, whether it takes place in the mainspace, on a talk page, or anywhere else in the project. It stands to reason that the exemption for removing BLP violations would also cover all of those same areas. -- ATOMSORSYSTEMS ^(TALK) 04:13, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I... get that and understand it from a policy standpoint, but doesn't that just open up a way for a topic banned editor to continue to meddle in an area he or she has been deemed to be a problem in? I get now why the Enforcement Request was incorrect, but I do also have to admit some wariness at that specific exemption. Though to HJMitchel since this is on the topic of exemptions, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't a topic banned editor making an enforcement request on another editor a violation of said topic ban? That definitely does not fall under removing BLP content, and WOULD count as engaging in the topic banned subject. AnsFenrisulfr (talk) 04:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I understand your concerns, and I share them to some extent—for me, topic-banned editors should stay away from the topic altogether—but I can't enforce policy that's not there. The community consensus is that BLP trumps everything, and almost all sins can be forgiven in the name of removing BLP violations. Personally, I think it should be a requirement to seek admin intervention immediately if a removal of an alleged BLP violation becomes controversial, but policy as it is allows people to violate topic bans or edit-war all day long as there's a legitimate BLP concern. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Why did you close that when he made non BLP removing edits here, here, and here and also on User talk:Jimbo Wales [3] [4]

I hadn't the last two, but they're three and a half days old; had they been reported at the time, he probably would have been blocked. The first three are legitimate as he's explaining BLP issues; if he was engaging in substantive discussions of content, he would be in violation of his topic ban, but we should encourage people to explain themselves when they remove BLP violations, as opposed to just removing something without comment and likely starting an edit war. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the response.

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Subscribe/Unsubscribe · Global message delivery · Romaine 05:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

User:Jajadelera

Hello, HJ Mitchell. We have yet another sock: JDNew (talk · contribs).--Jetstreamer ^Talk 10:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Add also NewJaja (talk · contribs), Jdseriesnew4 (talk · contribs) and NewJajaDelera (talk · contribs) to the list.--Jetstreamer ^Talk 10:34, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh good, some exercise for the mass block script! All  Blocked and tagged, thanks. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Wiki "statute of limitations"?

What is the "statute of limitations" ("had they been reported while they were fresh, you almost certainly would have been blocked") on topic ban violations? Where can I find information about this time limit in the Wikipedia policy docs and/or the allowance for it in the ArbCom decision? Also, can I have your assurance that from now on, other editors will not be blocked from this site for WP:NOTHERE if they write something like NBSB did? Thanks 96.245.254.115 (talk) 14:47, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

References

There is no statute of limitations, per se, but we use blocks to prevent disruption rather than as punishment. In this case, the disruption was several days old and there was no evidence of ongoing disruption, so a block would have been purely punitive and would not have the effect of putting an end to disruption because there was no disruption at the time of the enforcement request. As a rule of thumb, if it's more than 24 hours old there would normally have to be a very good reason to consider sanctions (for example, if it's part of a pattern of violations or borderline violations, the wider pattern might be considered). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:53, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I guess I just thought that the ArbCom decision and findings of fact about this behavior done NBSB would have constituted that pattern of violation. I hope everyone else applies as much reserve with WP:NOTHERE for everyone equally, as you do. Cheers 96.245.254.115 (talk) 18:30, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions log entry

Regarding your log entry for Retartist's discretionary sanctions: is there a reason you linked to a version previous to the one finalized by your close? —EncyclopediaBob 16:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I like to provide the oldid of the last version of the thread before the close, so that anyone evaluating it at a later date can quickly find the thread and easily view the diffs and the discussion between admins. I'll only normally link to the closed version if my closing remarks contain something that might be useful to other admins reviewing the action at a later date, and in this case they just stated the result. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:57, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Your practice makes sense -- what I attempted to explain (clearly not clearly :) was there was a version in between the one you linked to and your close. —EncyclopediaBob 18:07, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

I know, I want for the last edit to that thread before my close, rather than the last edit to the page (which had multiple threads open). Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:12, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, the version I linked to above contains an addition by User:Ryk72 to that thread specifically which yours does not. —EncyclopediaBob 18:22, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I've fixed it now. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. Not high priority but the reference link your log text "(see AE request)" still points to the incomplete version. —EncyclopediaBob 18:38, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi HJ! Thanks for that. Even though I'm mostly a lurker & focus my editing on gnoming, I'm a long time admirer of your work. If you have the time, I'd appreciate it if you could look over the comment that I added in that diff. And also if you could add your thoughts to the thread at WT:BLP. I'd appreciate your insight as an experienced Wikipedian & admin. - Ryk72 ^'c.s.n.s.' 18:46, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Bikeshedding?

Harrumph! -- Euryalus (talk) 18:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Baranof

Your interpretation of BLP that ostensible BLP defense excuses violation of an Arbcom topic ban by NxSBaranof is, shall we say, unique. That you have at the same time moved to topic ban off one of Baranof's innumerable opponents does not speak well for your judgment. Please consider yourself "involved" with respect to any future motions made against him — his site ban is coming... Carrite (talk) 20:01, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

As I earlier noted, anyone who takes action to protect the encyclopedia from BLP violations (as Harry has properly done here) is seen as proof of "involvement" by a certain set of people. That you choose to view Wikipedia as a game to be played between "opponents" rather than a project to write an Internet encyclopedia with sensitivity and human decency is self-explanatory. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 20:09, 11 February 2015 (UTC)