User talk:Underlying lk/Archives/Archive 3

Auto-generate ref in Infobox South African town?

Is there a reason why {{Infobox South African town}} doesn't automatically generate the census citation and it has to be filled in using the "ref" parameter? I was going to go ahead and automate it but I thought I'd better check first with you. - htonl (talk) 20:41, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

I couldn't get the template to transclude the census code within the 'ref' tag, it would just ignore it and break the link for some reason. I didn't find a way around it so I just added a separate 'ref' to all the articles, but I agree that this is far from ideal.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:48, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

OK, I think I have it working. If you delete the ref parameter the template should automatically generate the citation. It won't work for the multiple-places case (like Bloemfontein) but the manual ref parameter will still work for those. - htonl (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Re Pomfret et. al. - thanks, I know what the problem is, it'll take a minute to fix. - htonl (talk) 22:00, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Done. (Note that due to the multiple layers of template substitution sometimes the articles don't seem to update immediately.) - htonl (talk) 22:06, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

South African Barnstar

	The South African Barnstar of National Merit
	For improving the templates on a huge number of municipalities and places I hereby award you the South African Barnstar. Thank you for your contributions. NJR_ZA (talk) 16:55, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
	this WikiAward was given to Underlying lk by NJR_ZA (talk) on 16:55, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you NJR, I will add it to my (newly created) barnstar section! Last time I checked the transclusion count for the new template it was about 660 out of 3000+ main census places, so there's a still lot of work to do! :-) --eh bien mon prince (talk) 17:17, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

New South Africa articles

		The Writer's Barnstar
		Thanks for your run of new South Africa articles about locations and towns. Your efforts to improve the encyclopedia and expand information available to Wikipedia readers is appreciated. Northamerica1000(talk) 19:56, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much, it is very kind of you! :) --eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:03, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Census name accuracy

Re this ("De Kelders" vs. "Die Kelders") - the census often gets the exact spelling of the name wrong, particularly with the sub places. It's not a 100% reliable source when it comes to naming. - htonl (talk) 14:15, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually I decided to move it only after seeing that the page on the Afrikaans wiki was also named "Die Kelders". I thought it unlikely that they would get an Afrikaans name wrong, but there it is.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 14:22, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Ah, OK. It's actually kind of a weird case, and I may have been a bit hasty in reverting. The road signs in that part of the world all say "De Kelders", and the sign at the entrance to the village says "De Kelders", as can be seen from this Google Street View. And I know that locals in that area call it "De Kelders". But I just checked the SA Geographical Names System database and that calls it "Die Kelders", and the Trig Survey map calls the village "Die Kelders" but the caves for which it is named "De Kelders"! Still, in this case I think we should go with what the signs "on the ground" say.

Incidentally, do you want a copy of the SA Geographical Names System database? It used to have a website which has died, but I downloaded a copy before it went offline. It has names and locations for populated places and geographical features and so on. - htonl (talk) 15:37, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Sure, it could be useful to identify the places that do not appear in the 2001 census (or at least to check if they actually exist). Do you have it on your website?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:50, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I do now! Here. - htonl (talk) 21:02, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

It's all useful stuff, but there are so many entries that it's overwhelming! I've been trying to match the coordinates from the SAGNS file with the census data by using the VLOOKUP function of MS Excel, but without any results so far as I'm still just learning how to use it properly. Do you think it would be a good idea to transclude coordinates, and if you do, do you know of an easy way we could match the entries from mainplaces with the SAGNS file? Thank you for your help Htonl!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 17:44, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we can manage to set up an automatic system for filling in coordinates - precisely because it's not easy to match census places with SAGNS places. I think that will probably have to remain a manual thing. - htonl (talk) 20:32, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

After several failed attempts, I (regrettably) agree that it's unfeasible. In the meantime I have created a separate template for municipalities (Template:Infobox South African municipality) and I found that the area figures are at best simple guesswork, and in some cases completely missing. When I created the municipality-level articles I took the numbers I could find from other Wikipedias (usually the German wiki) as I couldn't find them on the demarcation board's website. The 2001 census figures are outdated in many cases, so it would be preferrable not to use them. Any idea on where we could get them?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:48, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The tables at List of municipalities in South Africa have area and population figures that should be as accurate as possible. The areas I calculated from official boundary data from the demarcation board, and the population is from the 2007 Community Survey, adjusted for municipal mergers and splits. I can give the data to you as a spreadsheet if you like. - htonl (talk) 20:54, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I will be adding them to the metadata template then. Hopefully we will have something more official to work with once the results of last year census are out (not until early 2013 going by what the official site reports). Thank you again!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Don't do it just yet! I think the area figures on that table are out of date, I'm just confirming that. I think the population should be good though. - htonl (talk) 21:02, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The population figures I already got from the 2007 community survey, though they need to be adjusted for Tshwane and another municipality that was merged last year (I can't remember its name right now).--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:07, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

There's a couple - Kagisano and Molopo merged, and also some of the districts were changed to include or exclude certain local municipalities. The population figures on the list of municipalities articles should correctly show those numbers. The updated area figures you can get from my website - districts and local municipalities (metros are listed in both). - htonl (talk) 21:13, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, if you've already downloaded those files, you should download them again, there was a minor error in the calculations. - htonl (talk) 21:17, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Done! Now all that is left is the languages. How did you manage to sort the figures by number of speakers for each municipality for the other template?--eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:20, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I wrote a small script in python that read a csv file containing the raw data and output the percentages. I can do the same for the municipal data, if you like. - htonl (talk) 10:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

That'd be great, otherwise I would have to sort them one by one, and it would take me hours..--eh bien mon prince (talk) 13:47, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

I'm doing it now. The Census data has not been updated to the 2011 municipal boundaries, but I'll adjust where possible for the mergers and splits. - htonl (talk) 19:27, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

It occurs to me that there's no need to keep the municipality data in the same template as the main place data. Maybe we could move it to somewhere like Template:Metadata South Africa/muni? It'd make the main place template smaller and I think it'd make the articles render a bit faster. - htonl (talk) 20:34, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

In fact, we could split up the whole template to simplify matters somewhat. I'm going to have a go at it, but I'm not going to change anything in the main template yet. - htonl (talk) 20:45, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Inviting you to WikiAfrica

We are inviting you to join WikiAfrica and help generate and expand the content of information in africa ,in other words join as to Africanize wikipedia. You can visit us at WikiAfrica and join our growing list of membership at WikiAfrica Incubator and help us test and evaluate this platform which assists new users to wikipedia create their articles (User:Awinda (talk) 15:54, 20 February 2012 (GMT))

North West

I notice you've made the same mistake a few times in the past three or four days, so I just wanted to let you know that our category is located at Category:Populated places in North West (South African province), not Category:Populated places in the North West (South African province). If you think it should be renamed to the wording with "the" in it, then you're welcome to list it for a renaming discussion at WP:CFR — but otherwise you need to make sure you're using the category name that actually exists, because the articles are left uncategorized and have to be fixed by someone from the categorization project if you use the redlinked (i.e. non-existing) version. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 20:15, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I didn't mean to rename it or anything, I simply copy-pasted the wrong category several times without noticing. Sorry about that.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:26, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

I've made it a {{category redirect}} just in case. - htonl (talk) 20:29, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Cool, no worries. And thanks, htonl. Bearcat (talk) 20:43, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Update re. muni data

So I've made some fairly big changes to {{Infobox South African municipality}}, and I thought I should keep you in the loop. I've moved the data out of Template:Metadata South Africa and into subpages of Template:Metadata South Africa/muni. I've split up the various fields into different subpages, which makes the main template coding easier since it doesn't have to use #titleparts (except for the race and language stats). I've added code that automatically fills out settlement_type in all cases, and fills out the subdivision* fields, including listing the correct district municipality for local municipality infoboxes. In theory, typing something like

{{Infobox South African municipality |blank_info_sec1 = WC032}}

should produce a basically complete infobox.

Tomorrow, if I have time, I'm going to try to extend the code to automatically show the number of wards for a local or metro municipality, and a list of local municipalities for a district municipality. I'd also like to rename the parameter from "blank_info_sec1" to something more meaningful, like "muni_code".

I also don't feel that the name of the mayor is actually something we should be automatically populating from a metadata template. It's something that changes quite often, and upredictably. Everything else is something that changes rarely: area only every five years at a boundary redefinition; population and demographics only when there's a new census, and so on. The name of the mayor, on the other hand, is something that ordinary unskilled editors should be able to fix if it changes without having to learn how the templates work. I'd be happy to go through and add the mayor info directly to the articles before taking it out of the metadata system. How would you feel about that? - htonl (talk) 01:08, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Actually I would keep the list of mayors in the metadata template for the same reason, since it's more likely to become outdated it would be easier to just update them all at once in the same edit rather than having to change them one by one which would be quite a tedious and time-consuming task. Rather we should add a "mayor_as_of" parameter and have the template check whether the name inserted by the editor is more recent than the one stored in the metadata, and transclude it if that's not the case.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

That sounds fair to me. - htonl (talk) 14:07, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

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Population of Kimberley

Please take a look at Talk:Kimberley, Northern Cape#Population of Kimberley. I believe the proper 2001 Census data would solve the issue. Roger (talk) 07:31, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Glenadrienne, Gauteng

I think you should move to without dab and if the dab is needed move to xxxx, Johannesburg.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:43, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:59, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but a lot of them can also be moved withouth the dab. I think it would be better to move to, Johannesburg instead of Gauteng given that they are only small neighborhoods of the city... What do you think? I can try to get somebody to move them all if you haven't the time! You're doing an admirable job BTW, excellent!♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure, the 'South Africa' section of WP:PLACE says that provinces should be used for disambiguation, and some neighbours are not part of Johannesburg proper but belong to Sandton or Soweto etc. It's a massive amount of work that might not substantially improve the articles... but I agree that redundant dabs should be removed in all instances.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 22:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Mm OK, but yeah the non needed dabs should be moved.♦ Dr. Blofeld 23:14, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

IMNSHO suburbs should be disambiguated by city, not province. Roger (talk) 07:11, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there's a specific policy/guideline about this somewhere. I'm not particularly against it but I'm not sure it's an improvement over the current situation.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 07:34, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Avontuur

The article you created refered to two locations called Avontuur, the town in the Western Cape and a subplace somewhere in Mpumalanga. I have removed all references to the subplace and added some additional details about the town. --NJR_ZA (talk) 13:52, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	South African Barnstar of National Merit
	Consistency is extremely important on wikipedia and its lovely to see how you manage the scale of the task for South Africa. Its amazing what you are accomplishing! Keep it up! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:44, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for this award Doctor! ;-)--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:56, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

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Review for Economic history of Argentina

I see you've been waiting since January for a review over at WP:GAN#BUS. Have you notified either Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Economics and/or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Argentina to request a review? Viriditas (talk) 13:35, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

I have now, thank you for the notice!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 18:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Hello, Underlying lk. You have new messages at Ezhiki's talk page.
Message added —Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); April 11, 2012; 17:17 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The Economist special reports list

Hi. Back in December you PRODded this, and it was deleted. Undeletion has now been requested at WP:REFUND, so per WP:DEL#Proposed deletion I have restored it, and now notify you in case you wish to consider taking it to AfD. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 14:09, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

OK, done: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Economist special reports list.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:41, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Help on Afrikaans wikipedia

Hi there! I saw that you and Htonl have worked on the census data project on settlements in South Africa and I was wondering if you could help me with it on Afrikaans wikipedia? We have a TONNE of settlements that have nearly empty infoboxes and it would be nice to have a simple key to put in for census data :) I'll do the typing and adding that seems easy but I have to say I'm confused with how the whole thing works :) Thanks for your time Bezuidenhout (talk) 21:31, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

There are two main infoboxes being used for South African towns: Template:Infobox South African town and Template:Infobox South African subplace (which one is used in which article depends on how they were classified in the 2001 census). In turn, these templates lean on the more generic Template:Infobox Settlement for most of the coding. The statistical informations are fetched from the template Metadata South Africa or one of its subpages (there are several of them, you can see them all here: Category:South African subdivision infobox templates).

For the infoboxes SA town and SA subplaces to work on af.wiki, the parameters would have to be 'translated' following the field names used on af:Sjabloon:Inligtingskas Nedersetting (the Afrikaans equivalent of Infobox Settlement), e.g. the line | official_name = {{{official_name|}}} would then become | amptelike_naam = {{{official_name|}}}. After this first step, the metadata templates would be copied on af.wiki (but that shouldn't require any major changes).

I'll try to create a working template in my sandbox on af.wiki af:Gebruiker:Underlying lk/sandbox, I will keep you posted on further developments, or if I need some help with the Afrikaans ;) --eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:54, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Ag, thanks so much! The wiki will REALLY benefit from it since it feels like 80% of our articles are about South Africa, and I'm sure if you need any Afrikaans help the friendly Afrikaans speakers won't be too shy to help you out thanks again haha :) Bezuidenhout (talk) 22:05, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

I can help out as well, if needed. Incidentally, this is something that will be perfect for the new Wikidata common data repository, though by the time that is up and running we'll probably have the 2011 census data available. - htonl (talk) 22:09, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed Htonl but I guess then we can add it to "historical data" to all the articles at least? :) Bezuidenhout (talk) 22:12, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Economic history of Argentina

I see FA potential in it. I would be up for working with you on it and attempting to promote to FA.♦ Dr. Blofeld 23:09, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

I would like to see this article featured, too. Pyrotec, who reviewed the article for the GA nomination, recommended taking the article to WP:PR, but even before that, the opinion of an uninvolved editor like yourself would be useful to identify the most glaring shortcomings in the article. Once you did that, I could look for some adequate sources to cover these gaps, and work together to add them to the article.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:08, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll try to look into it in the coming week, but I have a few GA noms which I'll have to deal with.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:26, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

No problem Doctor, I've waited five months for a review, so waiting a few more weeks won't hurt..!--eh bien mon prince (talk) 20:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

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Problem with Infobox South African town template

Greetings and felicitations. Since you are one of the most (recently) active editors of {{Infobox South African town}} (ISAT) (and may have caused the problem ^_^;), I thought I bring this to your attention in the hope that you can fix it, since I am not capable of doing so.

I recently edited the Simon's Town article (which uses the ISAT template) and found that it only displays two references, despite having several. This only occurred after the ISAT template was substituted for {{Infobox settlement}}. Would you please be so kind as to look into this?—DocWatson42 (talk) 06:50, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

I count four references now. And btw, I didn't cause the problem because there weren't any, you just had to implement the right fields to the ISAT template. I have done that for you.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 07:03, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay—thanks!—DocWatson42 (talk) 04:22, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Monuments in South Africa

Dear WikiProject South Africa Wikipedians

This is an urgent call from Wikimedia South Africa. We are currently working hard on the South African side of the exciting international photographic competition, Wiki Loves Monuments [1]. We have been planning to make this national competition really take off, but to do so, we need your help! The competition starts on the 1st September, and we need your help now! If you are interested in being part of or can help the Wiki Loves Monuments national organising team, then please join here [ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012_in_South_Africa]. If you have limited time, but want to help out at an upload marathon at a heritage site near you, please then contact either Lourie [[email protected]] or Isla [[email protected]]. We look forward to hearing from you!"

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Trompie en die Boksombende

Hallo, Hoe is jy? Ek wonder hoeveel artikels wat jy het edited sedert u daaraan begin redigeer? --CalmHighball (talk) 00:18, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Beg your pardon? Even though I'm part of WP South Africa, I don't speak Afrikaans! :P--eh bien mon prince (talk) 00:21, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Anadolu Kartalları

The article Anadolu Kartalları has been proposed for deletion because it appears to have no references. Under Wikipedia policy, this newly created biography of a living person will be deleted unless it has at least one reference to a reliable source that directly supports material in the article.

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Orphaned non-free media (File:Anadolu Kartalları.jpg)

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Ottoman Empire

Hallo,
please read Wikipedia:Article size before inflating an article with already existing Wikipedia material. Thanks, Alex2006 (talk) 13:20, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for answering! What you write would be true for sure at a paper encyclopedia, but not on Wikipedia, which is a web encyclopedia. Here it is enough to write the section name and then the link to the specific article. I can make you hundreds of examples where your problems is solved in this way. Beside the inflation of the length, what you do is a cloning of the content, which is also strongly discouraged. Bye, Alex2006 (talk) 13:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

This is ok. BTW, I am an iron defender of the 3RR, so now you can do what you want (I reverted you twice :-)). Bye, Alex2006 (talk) 13:41, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately we are becoming more and more an exception here... :-( Alex2006 (talk) 13:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Airdlin

The article Airdlin has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Too short. Not notable enough, in my opinion.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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A barnstar for you!

		The Award of the Arabian Barnstar
		For all your efforts and brilliant with regards to Middle Eastern articles in general (media in particular) and the Ottoman empire (the irony in giving an Arabian star, no? :-) ). Cheers! Droodkin (talk) 07:10, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Droodkin! And no worries, I like the Arabian barnstar too, I will continue to contribute to Middle Eastern articles so I can collect more in the future! ;-)--eh bien mon prince (talk) 08:25, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	For your tireless contributions to WikiProject Ottoman Empire! Antidiskriminator (talk) 02:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much for this barnstar Antidiskriminator! I'll continue to be tireless and contribute to the project even more in the future! :-)--eh bien mon prince (talk) 02:17, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Arab television drama

Hello Underlying lk. Thanks for creating the new Arab television drama article. I nominated the article to be published on the Did you know section of Wikipedia's main page, but was informed that all paragraphs need to be sourced in the article (except for the lead) to qualify for DYK (see Wikipedia:Did you know/Supplementary guidelines). So, if you're interested in the prospect of this being listed at DYK, feel free to add more sources to the article. The nomination for DYK is located here: Template:Did you know nominations/Arab television drama. Cheers, Northamerica1000^(talk) 06:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Arab television drama

The DYK project (nominate) 12:03, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Deletion of Jordan content

I'm sure the other editors on the Jordan article wouldn't be pleased to see all the well-cited and valuable info they added over the past year or so completely vanish. I tried merging what you had included and the original but for some reason that was blocked. Please be considerate to other contributors. I can see if the information was not cited or irrelevant but all of the information was properly cited and valuable to the article. Thanks so much for your help. 74.88.96.196 (talk) 04:54, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree that these parts could be kept, even if not in the main Jordan article. The previous version of the economy section did include a lot of references, but mostly they were a mix of competitive and other international rankings, with little actual information about the economy itself. So instead of being deleted or kept in the main article, these parts can be used to integrate economy of Jordan that currently includes very little sourced content.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 08:10, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

okay thanks 74.88.96.196 (talk) 19:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Edits to Iraq

You absolutely did make edits that you masked with a misleading edit summary. The information you changed in the article should have been in a separate edit, and introduced controversial material without adequate sourcing. Therefore I reverted your edit. The bottom line is that your indication that you were [removing] "interlanguage links" while changing substantial information in the article is enough for me to make the decision to revert. If you want to re-add your edits, then how about explaining your edits on the talk page, or provide better sources?? Revmqo (talk) 18:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

historians of Quraysh tribe made an accusation to ( Ansi and Musaylima ) of claiming Prophethood

Wikipedia has become a website to falsify the Arab tribes, there is no impartiality in writing articles, because editors depend on sources that hostile to Arabs, for falsification of the famous persons of Arab, I tried to edit some articles but editors insist on distorting the Arab history.

They insist on falsification of Musaylimah and accuse him of being magician and of claiming prophethood. You must find a solution to this problem, or we will take an action may be hard and severe. Abdullah ALkathiri (talk) 12:34, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Algeria

This was a mislick, sorry, but I'm not sure your removals were well justified. Those individuals were indeed born in Algeria, and as I recall, Berbers are only the remote origin - the vast majority of population identifies as Arabs, not Berbers (see e.g. CIA Factbook). Materialscientist (talk) 06:35, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

I've reverted myself. Indeed, the information you removed is questionable. Country overviews are always difficult to keep neutral and relatively free from accumulating clutter. Thanks for your cleanup efforts. Materialscientist (talk) 06:57, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Page notice at Algeria

Hi! I responded at Talk:Algeria#Page_notice_about_the_use_of_French WhisperToMe (talk) 21:37, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

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French in Algeria

Thank you! I sent a talk page message and I am awaiting his response. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:31, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

And so a discussion is occurring at User_talk:Dzlinker#Your_edits_to_Algeria WhisperToMe (talk) 13:09, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Anyhow I started Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Algeria#Listing_French_name_in_lead_in_Algeria_article WhisperToMe (talk) 04:20, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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2013 Bangladesh riots

Hi Underlying lk, thanks for your contribution on this article. But I think you have missed the thestatesman news. It clearly says "Many others, including policemen, were also injured when the supporters of Jamaat-e-Islami and its student wing, the Islami Chhatra Shibir, clashed with police and ruling party men at different locations in the country." and "According to officials, law enforcement agencies appeared to be the prime target of the right-wing activists.". Moreover from other references it is clear that Jamaat-Shibir was uniquely or even mostly responsible for the deaths. Thank you.--FreemesM ^(talk) 13:44, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

2013 Shahbag protests

Dear Underlying lk, I don't understand why do you trying to put POV materials. This article doesn't discuss about ICT. There is another article named International Crimes Tribunal (Bangladesh) which deals with ICT. Moreover you are trying to put only blames about ICT, but in ICT article you can see there are many organizations, who welcome this tribunal. So putting only negative info both POV and irrelevant here. Again you have delete the photo gallery, but WP:Galleries says "the use of a gallery section may be appropriate in some Wikipedia articles if a collection of images can illustrate aspects of a subject that cannot be easily or adequately described by text or individual images." Please explain your points.--FreemesM ^(talk) 14:28, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Template:Rashidun Caliphs

Hi, your recent change to the template Template:Rashidun Caliphs needs a consensus as i point out here on the talk page of the template. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 22:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

I just got time to reply to you messages and i think we should talk on the same Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates on which you have started a healthy discussion earlier. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 22:28, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

templates

Hi, I agree with you about Islamic templates, there is also another problem with them and that is they have content. wikipedia manual of style mentions that templates should not do the work of article content in the main article namespace, please see Wikipedia:Template_namespace#Usage line 14. Kiatdd (talk) 19:09, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kiatdd! I admit I ignored the existence of that guideline, all the reason more to change them, then! For the matters of style and formatting I had already made a few changes to give the {{Quran}} template a more sober appearance, but this has since been reverted. Clearly more discussion is needed to reach a consensus, so please let your opinion be known here.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 19:27, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

I suggested deleting. Guidelines are clear. We really don't need to discuss matters and reach a consensus (which needs time and effort), we need cooperation!.Kiatdd (talk) 19:28, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi U.IK, many thanks for your edits, regarding templates you have taken multiple approaches: tagged them for deletion and at the same time editing them and requesting an rfc, it is easier if we first discuss which one of the templates is going to be deleted, because this may confuse other editors. Besides the image in page Moses in Islam is the calligraphy of prophet Ibrahim I think I should be Musa_(moses)1.png (instead of Ibrahim_(Abraham)1.png). Kiatdd (talk) 18:05, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi, of all the templates that we deleted the only one that is useful is template:Isa for two reasons: (a) we want to keep its talk page, an expert editor commented there (History2007). If we delete it we will loose the discussion for ever. Actually the editor behind these templates tagged template:Isa for deletion twice ([2] and [3]) and we reverted him, I referred to that discussion several times before you got involved. And yourself referred to it in template discussion, there is no guarantee that another guy doesn’t start creating similar templates in 2 months and then we will have to discuss everything again! (b) The second reason is that it is really useful, consists of nine relevant links, it can be used in 5 pages. By the way I changed template:Isa to the previous version, it is smaller when it is not collapsible. Regards.Kiatdd (talk) 16:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kiatdd! The discussion page can probably be preserved in userspace even if the template is deleted. As for the usefulness of the template as a navbox, the 'Jesus in Islam' section of the Jesus template could be expanded with the 9 links that currently are part of the Isa template. This would avoid the current substantial overlap between the two templates, which in some cases are both used on the same articles.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 05:28, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

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Dunns Creek State Park Creek image

I used the wrong permissions template when I uploaded this image. I have resolved that problem. Thanks. Mgrē@sŏn 20:32, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Thank you for adding those great infoboxes to the women's articles! They're great. :) SarahStierch (talk) 14:36, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank youuuu! I'll try to improve them further still! :-))--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:11, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

User Evertson images/F11

Hello. You tagged a number of images uploaded by Everson (talk · contribs) with the F11/no perms CSD tag, e.g. this edit. The image does indeed have a copyright watermark. Did you check the Aardskip website contact page. The name on the contact form is rather familiar. Call me naive, but it seemed like a credible claim of permission to me yesterday and it still seems that way today. However, as they say, your mileage may very. Cheers, Angus McLellan (Talk) 00:15, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

If the uploader really is the creator of those photos, it's preferable for him to upload new versions without any watermarks and/or send a message to OTRS, just to be sure. After all, there are too many people who will swear they are the creators of this or that work, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Places in South Africa by racial majority/plurality

I choose to place various articles about places in South Africa into categories such as "Places in South Africa with White majority populations" and "Places in South Africa with Coloured plurality populations" based on the latest available statistics that Statistics South Africa has about these places. For provinces, racial statistics from the 2011 Census are already available, but for smaller census-defined areas such as main places and sub places, I still have to categorize them based on the 2001 statistics since the 2011 Census official results have not yet been released. For statistical purposes, Statistics South Africa divides local municipalities into main places (which are approximately equivalent to cities and towns) and further divides main places into sub places (which are like neighbourhoods or boroughs). I have been inspired to create these categories because Wikipedia has categories for jurisdictions in the United States with African American majorities, Hispanic majorities, etc. I have not created any categories for places in South Africa with Black majorities because South Africa's overall population has a Black majority, so any particular places in South Africa with Black majorites would not be statistically significant to the country's demographics. I really hope you will reconsider deleting all these categories I have created and populated. Also, I have not looked up every South African province, main place, etc. yet so there are probably many more articles about South African places that still need to be added to these categories.

User:Djodjo666 (talk) 8:28, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think using categories is the best way to do that, it would probably be better to just improve articles like Distribution of white South Africans.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 12:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

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Hello! Your submission of Ferreirasdorp at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Helen (talk) 09:56, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK

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DYK for Ferreirasdorp

Allen3 ^talk 16:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

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Names of Ottoman provinces

Hello again! Since you are one of the main creators of articles on Ottoman provinces, what is your opinion on the form of their name? Should we use the transliterated Turkish name or the common name? E.g. the "Sanjak of Selanik" or the "Sanjak of Salonica"? I think the general rule for historical entities is the former, as it corresponds to the "official" name as well, but there is a strong argument to be made for recognizability, i.e. "Sanjak of Gördes" is rather more obscure than "Sanjak of Corinth", and/or similarity, e.g. it is rather pointless to differentiate between "Rodos" and "Rhodes"or "Preveze" and "Preveza". For instance, when writing on Byzantine provinces, I generally follow a mixture of forms, both transliterated or anglicized, depending on popularity and ease of recognition, but I'd like to know what you think on this matter. Cheers, Constantine ✍ 20:46, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

I've been faced with this same dilemma a number of times, and I usually favour using the Anglicised form if the difference between the two is small, and the names have the same etymology (as in the case of Aleppo/Halep), but if the common, modern name has a different origin, as for Manastir/Bitola and Hüdavendigâr/Bursa, I would go with transliteration. So, in your examples I would have named the first article 'Sanjak of Salonica' but the second 'Sanjak of Gördes'. Hope this will help you decide! Cheers, eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:08, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Good, that's more or less what I had in mind, too. Thanks, and happy editing! Constantine ✍ 06:38, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

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June 2013

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Strange changes of maps concerning two Ottoman vilajets

Hi, I am Jimgiby. I have detected two strange changes of maps concerning the Ottoman vilajets of Istambul and Edirne made by you. An old Ottoman map of Istambul vilajet with Arabic inscriptions added by you looks compleatly unclear. Eastern Rumelia was not part from the Edirne vilajet in 1900, but it was part from Bulgaria since 1885. Before that it was part from Eastern Rumelia. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 17:29, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

About those two 'strange changes': the map doesn't seem to include Eastern Rumelia within the borders of the vilayet, I'm not sure why you think that (here is a map of the "fat" Adrianople Vilayet for comparison). The replacement map has a number of problems of its own, chief among them, it doesn't show any internal borders. It also includes the Khedivate of Egypt (established in 1867) within the empire for some reason. It includes the Vilayet of Bosnia and the sandzhak region, which had been taken over by Austria-Hungary by 1900. A more thorough analysis would surely reveal more mistakes, but I think these are more than enough to make it unsuitable for any use.

As for the second map, the strange "Arabic inscriptions" are actually Ottoman Turkish script, that's because that is an early 20th century map from an Ottoman atlas, which if anything should make it more reliable. It shouldn't be unclear for anyone familiar with the location of modern Istanbul, and a caption was added to make its meaning more clear. The replacement map: it's a derivation of the first, so it shares all of its inaccuracies. On top of that, it grossly overstates the extent of the Istanbul Vilayet, and it's completely missing a whole vilayet (Bitlis). As you might have noticed from the description page, I uploaded that map 2 years ago, so believe me when I say it's a shoddy piece of work! :P

I hope I clarified all your doubts, and since the newer maps are based on reliable sources, which is not something that can be said about the old ones, they will be preferred to those in any case. If you think there is something wrong with these new maps, the best thing you could do is find another reliable source (like a history book or an atlas) that shows the borders of the vilayets in a given date, and use it as a basis for a new location map.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 23:15, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Women in Turkey> head coverings

True, that- thanks for the correction: the article clearly indicates what it means by "turban"; perhaps it would be best to distinguish the garment with a different nomination entirely, as this is most definitely not what 'turban' connotes in English.Mavigogun (talk) 06:47, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

That's right, but I don't know what it would be called in English, either. The Turkish Wikipedia links it just to headscarf, but from that survey they're two different things.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 06:51, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

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Foreign language Wikipedias

Hi Underlying -- I noticed that you've PRODded a number of articles about foreign language Wikipedias. Do you intend to PROD all of them? I suspect that they mostly lack reliable sources, but I also think that this is likely to be controversial. I suggest removing the PRODs and creating a bulk AfD for the lot of them. Pburka (talk) 02:52, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I PRODded just five so far, and I chose this method because the one AfD I attempted hasn't drawn much interest. There are a number of local version that are surely notable, like Chinese Wikipedia for one. But many aren't, like Waray-Waray Wikipedia, and should be deleted and redirected to List of Wikipedias. Creating a bulk nomination would make it impossible for other editors to judge the notability of each version separately.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 03:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)