Talk:Race debate

"Scientific support for the Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid terminology of racial classification has diminished over the past century. These terms originally denoted skull types and sprang from the technique known as craniofacial anthropometry, but these disciplines have been abandoned by the mainstream scientific community. Today...they are used in forensic anthropology as an indicator of ethnicity of skeletal remains." So the terms were abandoned, because craniofacial anthropometry was abandoned as irrelevant, but people can be classified into these types on the basis of anthropometry? Welcome in the mental house! Centrum99 82.100.61.114 14:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

The paragraph "The Marketing of Race: genetic lineages as social lineages" must have been obviously written by an ideologically motivated retard and is a good example of the game full of half-truths and "little shifts" with which left-wing agitators brainwash uninformed people. Since a man with an average intelligence can understand that certain populations share specific haplogroups and when these populations mix, the resulting ratio of haplogroups can give a fairly accurate idea about the genetic composition of the sample when taken as a whole (although the haplogroups may not identify genetic origin in individual cases). So the percentage of European haplogroups in African-Americans is 18-24% (=21%) and European admixture in African-Americans was estimated at 19% based on autosomal genes. Obviously, these numbers are almost identical. When one studies the topic in depth, he can see the influence of genetic drift and explain, why certain phenotypic traits predominate despite the lack of support by haplogroups. For example, North African Berbers have about 80-90% Y-haplogroups and 20-25% mtDNA haplogroups of Sub-Saharan origin, yet they are traditionally taken as Caucasoids, which is confirmed by 80% Caucasoid origin by autosomes. Why? Simply because the Y-haplogroup situation is a result of genetic drift and the mtDNA percentages reflect the real genetic composition of Berbers very well.

The question, if racial classification has any relevance in humans is actually irrelevant; we all know that humans can be classified to well-defined groups both on the basis of external appearance and genetics. The differences between human groups from extreme climatic regions are so huge that these groups could be separated as single species by an extra-terrestial observer. So the classification of humans is perfectly substantianted. The real reason, why the word "race" is being abandoned in this case is purely political and all the discussion around is a worthles game with words. I must actually check the original sources to the information about "~6-10% variation between groups within the same continent", because I strongly suspect that it was abused by some leftie ignorant, who grouped separated racial groups into one. Since the real racial picture is as follows:

The oldest separation of modern humans (according to Y-chromozomes and mtDNA) occured more than 100 000 years ago, and as the branching suggests, it very probably happened not in East Africa, but in south Africa. The group that headed north is classified as "haplogroup BR" by modern geneticists. The groups that stayed in south Africa were characterized by deeply branched Y-haplogroup A and mtDNA haplogroup L0. During the Middle Paleolithic, they further separated into two distinct branches: while Y-haplogroup A3b2 + mtDNA haplogroups L0a/L0f headed north, all remaining A-lineages and mtDNA haplogroups L0d/L0k remained in south Africa.

The group with A+L0d/L0k lineages that stayed in south Africa developed into today's Khoisans. They are subtle people (150-160 cm) with body proportions similar to that of Europeans (trunk index ca. 52%), yellowish skin, "peppercorn" hair and the presence of epicanthus, among other things. During the last millenium, they were significantly influenced by Bantus from the paternal side and from this mixture, a taller subgroup (Khoi/Hottentots) came into being. The presence of "clicks" in Khoisan language supports the idea that these sounds were present in the oldest human "Ur-sprache".

The group that headed north sometimes around 50 000 years BP and bore A3B2+L0a/L0f developed in the dry savannah of south-east Sahara. Today we know them as Nilotes, representatives of the most extreme adaptation to hot, dry climate on Earth (matched only by some Australian tribes). Their trunk index 48% betrays extremely long limbs that dissipate heat more efficiently, their skin is extremely dark, skull is long and narrow (again an adaptation reducing the influence of sun heat). Among pastoral Nilotic tribes we can find the tallest people in the world, whose average height exceeds 180 cm. On the other hand, some agricultural tribes are rather small, 170-175 cm. This is explained as a consequence of the specific diet of pastoral tribes containing lots of milk and heance a lot of calcium.

The people bearing Y-haplogroup BR headed to East Africa. Here they further diverged into two basic lineages marked by Y-haplogroups B and CR. It would be interesting to find out, if this divergence has anything to do with the explosion of Mt. Toba on Sumatra 71-73 500 years ago that was followed by an extremely dry and cold phase. It is possible that bearers of Y-haplogroup B were pushed to the forests in West-Central Africa by the extreme drought, because these rainy and wet places aren't just of the most pleasant ones. This is, after all, clear from the influence that this climate had on their phenotype: Today we know them as small Pygmies, only 145-160 cm tall humans with dark skin, long arms and relatively short legs (trunk index 52-53%), with highly mobile muscle morphology suited for fast movement in the jungle. Besides Y-haplogroup B, they also bear typical mtDNA haplogroups L1 and L2. However, it is interesting to note that the same haplogroups are present in Tanzanian Hadzabe, who were traditionally grouped with Khoisan on the basis of the presence of clicks in their language. Yet the Hadzabe obviously have nothing in common with Khoisan genetically, so this is another evidence that "clicks" were present in the original language of humans.

The branch CR probably stayed in East Africa until the end of the cold phase 60 000 years ago.